Everyone has an opinion about Proton, whether he or she is a “car person” or not. As a national carmaker, Proton is a subject of national interest, and rightly so, as policies set by the government with Proton in mind impact all car buyers. Of course, the grants and loans from the government to the carmaker are from the taxpayer.
The Malaysian auto market has never been so open, and Proton has had to fight with not just market leader Perodua but the entry-level models of foreign makes. Without the economies of scale on a global basis, even a leader in a small market will have its hands full fending off the giants, never mind Proton. The carmaker has long lost its status as the default choice of the rakyat, who have turned to Daihatsu-backed Perodua.
Proton is now at a low ebb. In 2016, the DRB-Hicom-owned company sold just 72,290 units (a 29.2% drop from 2015) to surrender second place in the sales league to on-form Honda. Sales of 70k units will not be enough to sustain the company, which last year received a RM1.5 billion loan from the government to settle debts. That loan came with conditions, and one of it was for Proton to find a foreign partner.
Two parties are now bidding to be Proton’s “foreign strategic partner” – France’s PSA Group (maker of Peugeot and Citroen) and China’s Geely, owner of Volvo. According to DRB-Hicom, the decision on Proton’s partner will be announced by the end of the first half of 2017, but that has not stopped almost daily speculation and “updates” on the progress, both by the press and government officials.
There are two ongoing debates. The expected one is whether Proton should be sold to a foreign party, bearing in mind that no suitor would be happy with exchanging tech and funds for a minority stake, with no firm hand on the tiller. Broadly speaking, on one camp is the “national pride” brigade, and on the other side are those calling for an end to the expensive crutch. What’s there to be proud of, they ask, comparing P1 to the likes of Hyundai.
To add spice to the situation is the sub-debate – if Proton were to be sold, should it go to the French or the Chinese? Never mind that Volvo has thrived under Geely ownership (with solid financial backing and undiminished Swedish R&D/design, the latest models are rather desirable) and Indian ownership of Jaguar Land Rover has propelled the British brands to record sales – Malaysia is a proud nation that does not always view the matter objectively. In today’s climate, Geely’s origins go against it in the matter of public opinion.
But what does the founder of Proton think of the company’s current situation? Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad typed his thoughts on the matter in his Chedet blog, which is pasted below. It doesn’t surprise anyone that he’s against foreign ownership – we would expect no less from the former PM and Proton chairman. Below are his views, verbatim.
1. I am sad that Proton is to be sold to foreign companies. Having a strategic partner is ok. But once Proton is sold to foreigners it will cease to be a national car. It will just be producing foreign cars in Malaysia. That is something we have been doing since the 1970s.
2. Proton may not be profitable now. But it was very profitable before. Admittedly it was because it was protected. But even after protection ceased it was profitable. All countries protect their automotive industry. It may not be through high import duties. But there are other ways of preventing imports from challenging locally made cars. These other ways are actually much more effective and can result in excluding foreign-makes completely. That is why Proton cannot be exported to these countries. We are very generous. Anybody can export their cars to this country. Sub-standard cars too can be imported.
3. I am out of Proton now. Since then I have not been allowed to even meet or speak or phone Proton staff.
4. That is alright.
5. My fear is that if we do not own Proton anymore the Malaysian automotive industry will suffer a great loss.
6. The vendors and suppliers of components will close shop. Lots of workers will lose their jobs. And Malaysia’s engineering capacity will be reduced. It will not be a developed country in 2020 or later. Malaysia will remain a third world developing country.
7. Once upon a time Malaysia was called an Asian Tiger. Today Malaysia is not even a pussycat. We have become one of the ten most corrupt countries in the world.
Syabas! Najib.
What are your thoughts on the matter? As paultan.org is an automotive website, please keep the talk to Proton and its foreign suitors. Tun M could not resist point number seven and that sarcastic pat on the back, but let’s leave politics out of this – there are plenty of other places for rock throwing of that sort.
Looking to sell your car? Sell it with Carro.
Pity all the other ‘3rd world countries’ such as Singapore, New Zealand, Australia (Holden sold to Ford), Canada, Ireland, UK (Sold most of their car companies), Sweden (Volvo sold), Finland and so many more….
Only Mahathir’s son and family and his cronies stand to lose when Proton are not forced to buy low quality supplies from them.
Ditch your Porsche, Mercedes, Bently and etc, drive a Proton.
So sad. Give me tissue please. Tsk tsk tsk!
fully support point no 7
Geely is going to get a shock of their lives. 60,000 workers producing 72,000. At this ratio, it is like 1 person for 1 car produced in a year.
In any car industry, this ratio is totally unheard off!
In 1990, top of the range CBU pure Swedish built Volvo 244 GL (A) was Rm37,000.
Today, a similiar D segment Volvo is RM300,000.
10x. Yes I repeat 10X.
Something must be wrong with the car industry in Malaysia.
People have been forced to pay high car prices.
Those supporting Proton the past 30 years have had HIGHER bank interest rates than Japanese makes.
Proton was created to help the rakyat. Why charge much higher interest rates for Proton cars?
60,000 workers is inclusive of the vendors workforce, not just Proton!
It is possible if 1 Proton worker is only responsible to screw 4 doors or windows while Perodua workers have to do more as they are only an ‘assembler’ unlike Proton’s higher status as ‘car maker’
P1 total worker is 12k not 60k
May be proton can do better after the marriage
Wake up Malaysians. Nissan, Toyota in 90s was below RM20k.
Ask any uncle and aunty. Too many young generation here dont know how cheap cars were. And they are still cheap overseas.
Biasalah bang, ni kompeni Proton
We spent money that we dun have to “achieve” No 7. I dun think we can be so proud of it.
30 years and RM1.5B wasted and we still ‘achieve’ No. 7. Better don’t start this ‘National Pride’ project
Err, Do u even knows which No 7 we referring to?
Excuse me, we all know very well what Dr.M did for us in the past. Please don’t twist and turn facts.
Nothing wrong with selling your car company. Even Rolls Royce, Bentley and Jaguar were sold 100% to 3rd party.
Mind you, Rolls Royce is the Queen’s car. And yet UK Government and its PM and ex PMs never made any noise when they were sold off completely
P1 is a FAILED EXPERIMENT,THAT COST taxpayers BILLIONS OF rm.
Up to today,the power window problem still resurface…cos of the overprotected cry baby suppliers.
Maybe ,we will be getting Volvo turbo Sagas and Personas very soon,minus the CAMPRO ENGINES.
Who’s with me agree to let Proton go or sell to foreign partner? Proton has made us suffer for more than 30 decades! Nuke me if I’m wrong. Like is you agree.Dislike if you are pondan.
For 32 years local vendors cheated Malaysian.First the vendors cheated proton by charging expensive price for the products and the quality of the materials are below par or most of it unacceptable by international standard.That was why when you see the export units were sold in the U.K. are more solid and firm.While for the local Malaysia market until now plastic material and cheap feeling.At the same time government earned billions of extra cash by imposed super high tax for foreign brands.The losers here are Malaysian.
In 1990, I bought a brand new Mercedes 200 CBU German made for RM57,000. It was so German that even the tyres and battery came from Germany.
Today, 26 years later, the Mercedes E200 is RM400k. Went up 8X in price.
I checked the UK and Germany prices of Mercedes 200 in 1990 and the E250 in 2016, the car price hardly DOUBLED.
So global prices hardly doubled. But in Malaysia, the price went 8 fold.
We have to thank Proton for this. Because of Proton, 30 million people have suffered for 30 years with super high car prices. All to protect Proton.
In 1989 my father bought a brand new peugeot 405 GTX for RM 70k. At that time, the ‘current’ e class is the W124 230E, which certainly cost a lot more than my father’s peugeot. Perhaps you bought a ‘brand new’ 70s merc 200 in 1990. Thats expensive….
Nicely done evora.
Yupp, he is indeed bullshiting. Cars are cheap back in late 80’s or early 90’s, but never the bullshitting price he mentioned.
My dad bought a full spec, CKD Volvo 244 in 1981, that already cost 50k. Back in 1991, he was seriously thinking to get a Merc E190, which at that time, definitely exceeded 100k mark, he is definitely bullshitting. HE is just Kunta Kinte trolling with multiple names. Or maybe he was not born yet or too young to know how much car cost back then. Try harder next time Kunta.
in 1981, got no CKD for Volvo. Tipu pun tipu betul
Volvo had no CKD in 1981. Go and check with Volvo Malaysia please
EVERLASTING PERLINDUNGAN…cannot continue forever,can it?
Everywhere got plotektion, you tarak baca ka?
Same old story from same boring samy from same person
Exchange rate also lain bro, those days MYR and USD/GBP much more competitive…. need to be fair also la. And exchange rate is not the fault of Proton.. lain cerita.
In 1990 I bought Nissan Sunny 130Y for RM16,500
Corolla LE also same price.
Wake up Malaysians!
In 1983 my father bought Corolla 1.6GL for 24k. LE was 22k. I remember since I had the price list then. Pretty sure Sunny was much more expensive during the 90s.
Talk facts lah. Anon living in US said a CRV cost him USD26k. Google cakap CRV in UK £21K. Malaysia klu CRV 2WD you can own one for 135k ++ Kalau masa kelas math itu hari tak tidur, you can see that harga Malaysia takdelah mahal berkali2 ganda. Phone mahal tapi Google pun malas … line kena cut? However …. when you relate the price to Malaysian per capita income, only then it become expensive to own a Honda in Malaysia.
CRV US USD26K gaji USD3K
CRV UK UKPound21K gaji UKPound3K
CRV MY MYR135K gaji MYR3K
mampoosss….
Tun M reaps what he sow. Now it’s time to taste your own bitter medicine. Padan muka Proton! Justice to the bullied rakyat!
Malaysian living in USA. Just bought a CRV for about $US26k. Saw you guys and did the conversion into RM and I checked with the prices in Malaysia. Don’t even know what’s the difference. Do the math.
Looks like Proton will need another 1.5 billion cookies again.
Soon Germany is considered third world country, selling off Opel… and South Korea already third world country sold off Ssyangyong…
sayornara…Protong…HERE COMES THE NEW GEELY LOGO.
well, he said you will REMAIN as third world country which insists that you already are, but getting worse, whereas those countries you mentioned there were already developed countries even before getting those automotive industries…
Spot on. Nothing more i can add.
If Proton remains open, rakyat of Malaysia will be the losers. Buying low quality cars at high price in the name of national pride while promoting corruption. Better close it down and be a 3rd world country than letting it go on
Perwaja Steel close down no effect on us so Proton can close also. Only certain people pride affected.
Ha ha ha. Is this the ‘real’ john talking ?! Will the real john please stand up ! I do agree with the comment but I’m questioning the identity of john here.
I believe majority of Malaysian prefer proton to be scrapped,demolish and disappear in Malaysia.Tun just worry for the vendors which are his cronies.How many years more Tun want to cheat Malaysian? Proton can be like other major car manufacturers but to be like the others proton need to invest on continuity reasearch and development.But Proton managements prefer to relax and earn easy money since it’s establishment coz they know Tun as PM will provide protection policies to force Malaysian keep buying Proton.It’s not for the sake of national pride,.. the purpose was just to earn easy money for cronies for decades.Malaysian will have to settle for cheap quality cars by proton if we Malaysian ourselves don’t have the urgency to fight for our rights.Proton and government has taken advantages for our ‘bersyukur’ attitude.
What are the benefits of proton? Nothing.It just created jobs for the little but suffered most of Malaysian citizens.Many told me they don’t buy proton so they are not suffer by proton establishment? Really? So naive.Ok let say you don’t buy proton but you buy Toyota or Ford or BMW.Do you know how much an Altis and a Camry price in USA? USD18k for Altis and USD23k for Camry. How much is cost you here in Malaysia? Altis RM120 and Camry RM160k (USD1=RM4.40) Not considering that the US market give you impressive high tech safety features but in Malaysia the car come with little features,but more expensive.And when you think about how much they earn per year? USD53k per year but in Malaysia just USD14k but we have to pay more to buy a car! And many will say the cost of petrol much cheaper in Malaysia than in the US.Do you spend how many thousand a year to buy petrol? Mathematically if you use the car for 10 years you still can save more ten of thousands from the tax imposed by government.How bout those low mileage drivers? That is unjust for them coz they not using petrol much.
Don’t forget US petrol price is by the gallon, not litre.
US Government bail out 3 major US car company for USD80 billion and lost USD 9.2 billion. That’s in Obama time. So what’s wrong?
Then how come Toyota made USD 7 billion worldwide profit on the same year? Ask yourself it’s about management and work ethics or government bailout?
so the vendors and supplier don’t have any other customer except Proton??
The good ones already have factories in Thailand. Only those producing rubbish has proton as sole customer.
All cronies shoud be eliminated in the first place.
APM too?
Then where Perodua going to source their aircon?
Go cry to Denso
No problem, Toyota also using Denso.
Only Proton cronies going to cry
whatever, we hv perodua anyway
W/o P1, we have no reason to keep P2.
P2 is not a national car from day 1 unlike P1, remember? Now, P1 won’t be a national car also if it’s sold. It will be like P2, no more national pride
P1 still have indigenous models unlike P2 which never have one.
indigenous non-selling models for 1.5B. Any takers?
At least, it didn’t took our RM1.5B and run away
Its worse. It is just an assembler in disguise as a car maker. With all the incentive that it shudnt have gotten.
Everyone knows it’s not a car maker. As far as i know, it didn’t borrow any loan from our Gov
P2 got favourable incentives, tax breaks, and reduce car prices as a “national maker”. But what goes in there is monkeywrench jobs and bodykit specialising.
If P1 is good enough, it will be able to compete with P2, incentive or not. The sales volume speaks otherwise
IF talk about sales volume then Mesidis must be failure lah?
Pls learn about car segments and target market
john, why you compare with ‘Mesidis’? Is it mass production car? P1 and P2 not comparable meh?
You are the one that should learn car segments and target market
I am not a supporter of proton, but if you think car prices will drop if proton is sold, you are sorely mistaken!
Please migrate to zero-tax heaven Langkawi or Brunei.
Car tax in brunei is about 20%, no such thing tax free.
Sell Proton and 10,000 more jobs will be created, more competent and quality vendors will open shop, Malaysia will be become first world country.
Fellow citizens of Malaysia have to accept the fact that if our “national carmaker” is not performing, we have to move on and find something else not profitable.
If it is not performing, making loss, then DO something about it and not sit there and wait for gomen loan. This is why P1 keep failing up till today.
If P1 is not willing to sell to a foreign company, then at least revamp the whole company. Hire better CEO, better engineers, better salesmen, etc etc and not stick around do notthing and eat karipap and tehtarik. Sacrifices has to be made for a better P1.
I’ll relate this to patriotism. Those who support proton and mediocrity are not patriots and should have their citizenship revoked. Proton it’s a failure, as a patriot we have to support efficiency and stand up against misuse of government funds. If you support proton you are a failure to your country.
Proton never listens to the rakyat only syok sendiri thinks the rakyat want their cars. Even the designer of Proton also the same. Now you can see the results of what’s happening to Proton. The rakyat can only say 3 words: Padan Muka Proton
Again many loses of jobs among malaysians.which would affect our future generation n economy as well.then najib will promo his sl1m program again2 n again to our young grads n give them 1k a month to save “his” money from paying the real wages to malaysian.tsk tsk.all these menteris got no heart n brain anymore.all they think is their own periuk nasi only.rakyat g mampos.thats it
I totally disagree with Mahathir. Proton has been a huge burden to our shoulders for more than 30 years and this project has been a total failure since day 1.
Yes Mahathir might not be directly involved in the company anymore but who really owns the vendors? That is the biggest question.
It is never fair for the entire country to suffer for the benefit of this company. Our automotive landscape has been screwed up big time by Mahathir and Proton. Two generations of Malaysians have been forced to pay high prices for cars.
Other countries do not have Proton and they are not in any way worse than us. In fact, the opposite is true.
Proton has been a curse to M.all Malaysians except a small minority.
And the joke is there are still people supporting Proton besides cronies
I rasa Tun, mungkin ada segilintir berbangga bangsa Malaysia dibawah Jajahan China…
Daripada pemerhatian berlaku disekeliling Kita..sungguh menyedihkan….Cuba Han Cuba Han.
just sell it already. too much time is being wasted talking!
In all fairness, Proton had its chance to make good products and keep updated vehicles through model life-cycle, but it never happened, and with the same management style properly never will. It been in operation for over 30 years, yet nothing notably has come out, except outdated models and technology. I don’t expect much from local CKD brands as they simply follow model life cycle, but Proton is a full fledged manufacturer yet are unable to bring attractive models out to the market on a regular basis. Foreign expertise and management is needed, and with min 51% ownership. Pride doesn’t help when you don’t do your work. In today’s business it is the survival of the fittest, and it seems Proton is no longer fit. Constructive comments are very welcome.
proton wira 1st original model (rear mitsu galant hatch lights) lasted for 2 years from 1993-95. but the facelifted were too long in market until 2003 (8 years) with only a minor facelift in the SE model (grille and bumper).
proton iswara went into the same phase (being the 3rd change after Magma and Megavalve) and stayed on from 1992-2002 until it was replaced by LMST. that also, only the lights were changed, front grille, instrument meter and steering wheel.
proton waja remained looking basically same from year 2000-2006 (until the it received the new lights and lost its duck nose).
proton preve – 5 years with no facelift at all.
no one realised that??
honestly feel sad.
after all the effort still a failure.
proton have ‘wasted’ much of its early years in wrong strategy. as u have said, consumer expect more significant updates but it never comes…
selling out proton is a hard decision. like most of the posting here, generally most Malaysian wont even give proton a test drive.
new proton models like iris goes to show it have indeed buck up but it took more than 3 years to convince the public it is a good alternative to myvi. but too late. even the new persona too can’t help boost up the sales figure. so it’s adious proton.
The prosperity of Volvo and JLR under their respective foreign owner are facts! And we believe, citizens who are working in both car makers are prosperous too, and so for lot more new employees as these companies are expanding.
I’m not sure the thinking of Tun M, but raising the same local vendor closes shop issue is pathetic for a great leader like him.
We ourselves are facing great family economic issues due to current economic conditions I believe we all were very well understood. And we are surviving and adapting and still driving cars around especially on holidays.
customer n kualiti didahulukan bukannye keuntungan diutamakan
baiki yng ini dulu…..baru nk kecek bende laen..barulah berkat..
..da nak hampir 3 dekad da…tp x udah2 masalah, kualiti, customer complaints, after sales servis..
orng beli kerete ni bukan macm beli pencil n penggorek…nk bayar 9 tahun…org besao2 xpe la kereta free…minyak free
even jual ke foreigner n perangai dulu x ubah2..same jela resultnye…
tgok kia…mase era perubahan zaman.. klua kereta forte..
lengkap mcm2…n harge pun berbaloi….baru brand2 lain terhegeh2 termasuk proton nk klua mcm diorng n harge pun lebih kurng same..sentap..
salut kia..lgi2 skg ni mate x puas2 duk tgk kia stinger..kalu compare perdane..belakang sgt la..
bisness tu bia la telus baru berkat…customer happy2..puas hati..duk puji2..siap2 proton bole buat roket lg..
It is just his grudges as has been. Forgive him. He has done enough for the country and his time is over. Respect him what he had done to the country. Enough.
For Tun’s pride we suffers… We pay a lot for tolls… We pay a lot of taxes for cars… We also behind Vietnam and even Brunei… We also built perwaja for proton and now he is talking about his cronies vendors… Please Tun stop!
Sorry, contrary to what the idiot syok sendiri madani dungu said, proton’s problem is it doesn’t understand asean need at all. Nobody cares about handling, otherwise boaty myvi and japmobiles all never sell. Nobody cares about design, about seeing wording in headlamp, taillamp, etc. Best sellers myvi, godcar (then) fugly like shit, but people gladly surrender their money.
They really should study hard on perodua’s formula of success : give toyota powertrain, people immediately trust it is fuel saving, durable, cheap to maintain. Bak kata roda pusing’s bezza review, people buy perodua cuz “takyah fikir, takyah pening, beli je terus”. A testament to how much “trust” they get from consumers.
But nasi sudah jadi bubur, so next best course of action is to surrender to motherland’s Geely.
Geely > all
Volvo > all
*Hell march* *soviet march ra3*
Better eat popcorn, not bubur.
nah, here’s your cookies. shut down your PC and eat them.
don’t take too much of alcohol drinks.
That’s how cronies doing business. Orang sendiri got kam ching and benefit. This kind of business model will continue until their cucu cicit. End of day, only buyers will be loser. Tell me who wants to let go since the profit so lucrative.
Your point is valid… As long as Proton exists
Tun and his evergreen comments by victimising the entire nation. He has done more damage and at his time there is no social network etc. Furthermore he has not given freedom of speech then and he was definitely a dictator and always portrays that he is great etc especially when compared to LKY of Singapore. All ego problem has caused misery for the citizens of Malaysia.
The decision on selling Proton is a good decision on the long run. Why the people must pay higher price for our national cars? Because of Tun, we had paid higher price. Time for him to retire and not to screw up further. Please Tun, go and rest at home. Don’t stir further as you are doing a mess now.
. Once upon a time Malaysia was called an Asian Tiger. Today Malaysia is not even a pussycat. We have become one of the ten most corrupt countries in the world. Hopefully we can overcome this situation bcoz it suffer all the malaysian ecspecially for those b40 and m40. So all the rakyat will happy enjoying their life
I love Dr M for some of the achievements he has contributed to Malaysia, but Proton is not one of them. For crying out loud, KIA has superseded Proton! Soon Haval will overtake Proton too. How shameful is that? Still want to protect Proton?
No way.
The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few. That is the real world . You cannot expect all Malaysian taxpayers to bail out Proton each time it has financial problems. It is a better choice to sacrifice few thousand people rather than let millions of Malaysians suffer.
What a joke. It’s struggling because it’s been coddled by the government for 30 years and never had any true competition. It’s just incompetent.
Can’t pay your suppliers? No problem, here’s RM1.5 billion so that you don’t need to change and just continue being incompetent.
The reason Proton failed is not because lack of gomen support is Proton truly produce very subpar and low quality cars. That’s the fact the U Turn Champion has to acknowledge. Don’t blame the gomen or Malaysians. Malaysia automotive market is NOT even liberalised as compared to other countries like Taiwan, Korea or Japan. It’s time for Proton to be sold to other more capable car manufacturer.
You are saying the car markets in Taiwan, Korea and Japan are liberalised?
This is car website. Why bring politics in here….. everyone know this story… no need repeat to death.
In case you don’t know, the one who started Proton is a Politician!
There are 3 things that we must make clear.
1. One has to understand that DRB-HICOM is not going to sell Proton as a whole. It has been reported numerous time, DRB-HICOM will remain a significant share holder of Proton, thus, a portion of Proton still belongs to Malaysia (which IMHO, is not something very important – what we want is the company to thrive, irregardless of who owns it).
2. Once Proton is “sold”, Proton is not going anywhere. Its assets remains in Malaysia. Its Tanjung Malim plant will still be there, and please understand that even though the company belongs to China or France, the plant (and the land which it sits upon) is in Malaysia. Thus, again, it is a non-issue.
3. Regarding Tun’s argument that “The vendors and suppliers of components will close shop”. Once Proton is “sold”, where will Proton (and its FSP) produce its cars? Still in Malaysia (read point 2). And when the cars are produced in Malaysia, where do the parts and components come from? Again, Malaysia. If the FSP can increase the production in Malaysia (irregardless of the brand of the car churning out from Tanjung Malim, be it Proton, Geely, Citroen, Peugeot), orders of parts and components will increase. Who supplies these? The vendors in Malaysia! And when orders increase, vendors have to employ more workers, thus creating more jobs. If the vendors have to close shop, it means that the parts and components are sub-standard, thus being terminated. This, again, is a good thing as a whole to Malaysia. We can finally drive cars with better quality parts and components.
I rest my case.
not necessary true.. remember again the TanjungMalim facility is under utilize these days, what about the new team producing Emgrand or GC5 there for the new SEA market? There might be some spare-parts manufacturer will close shop due to incompetent or low quality product, but again who cares? the only who survive should be the good producer parts for other brands.
Protons problem is complexity. They don’t need to sell so many models. Streamline. Sell just two cars. A B segment sedan and a B segment mini MPV. Use the same platform, drive train and engine. Make those cars very reliable. Over time, perfect your sales and service network. Make those two cars your bread and butter. Master the art of making engines and transmission that don’t fail. Make Lotus contribute more design and handling input. Keep the prices low and affordable. Put more of those cars in people’s hand. It’s not difficult once you reject complexity.
It won’t work. People running the show already have preconceived ideas. We can all see the bad results.
Not only that actually. Alot of us are pissed off at the after sales service. Dealers are lazy to do paperwork to claim warranty for us customers. Unless you keep going to COSE at Kesas Highway each time you want service your car or claim warranty ( but wait super long queue) , you will get the tidak apa attitude from the dealers. Proton always protect its dealers well due to cronyism
to be clear with all especially those whom are not born yet in the 80s, this is what happened.
before proton was launched Nissan Sunny 130Y and Toyota Corolla LE were selling a price of between 17-20k.
proton saga came and sold at 18k for the 1.3S and 21K for 1.5S. very competitive.
Proton launched the higher spec 1.5I for 28K in 1986, and this is when the protectionism started to take place.
in 1987 Toyota launched the all new Corolla in 1.3 and 1.6 spec. the price were pushed to between 40-50K.
similar goes to Honda and Nissan when they launched the all new Civic SH4/SH3 and the Sentra SLX in 1988.
because of what happened in this segment (at this time they are similar to A segment cars of today in terms of size), the rest of other cars were pushed up as well. D Segment Accord SM4, Corona ST171, Cefiro A31 and Galant E33 launched between 1988-90 were sold at 70-100K.
Proton launched the Megavalve model in 1990 and the heavily revamped Iswara in 1992 with prices as high as 42K for the 1.5I Automatic and all was OK because the competition are more expensive. the people of Malaysian had the options of to buy or not to buy. or fork more money to buy other brands.
Proton planned to launch the all new Wira in 1993 so when Toyota, Honda and Nissan began launching their all new models government made sure their prices were pushed higher from 40-50k mark to 70-85k.
that is when Proton controlled up to 60% or the market and enjoyed a wealthy life.
I like your comment coz the price you have mentioned truly reflected how much car cost back then, unlike someone who claimed he bought C class Merc in 1990 for 57k. That is pure bullshit. I am all for a more open and competitive automotive market. But saying you can buy a Merc 200 for 57k in 1990 is just baseless exaggeration to make people hate Proton.
Merc 200 for 57k in 1990… it might be true if you buy recond W123 year 1985 – 1986 one that time, not brand new W124 that cost well over RM100k mark.
I like your story, seriously. What happened next? How come now no longer wealthy?
Adapt or die!
I respect dr m but he is too arrogant and egoist. Proton is a failure despite billions of taxpayers’ money and he dare to say not enough gov support. When he took over the helm as chairman, proton became worse.
Proton. Please die fast. We have lived with you for more than 30 years and we have had ENOUGH.
Blame the longest serving yet unimaginative proton ceo tengku mahaleel.
Despite all the protection, proton still fail.
You want to see national pride, you go to national museum. There they the nation pride.
Proton is just a company. The pride of the nation is its people.
There are many good vendors who dies after drb took over, they were replaced by useless drb warga companies and they took the gov money while others faded away. What tun is saying? Who runs the ones under drb? All affiliated to tun M. He is worried that geeky may try to stop the drb ones and bring good ones and maybe the ones who were killed by drb so his under table biz will be exposed!!!
Even if proton is bought by foreign companies. There’s no way the government would even bother to abolish the existing taxes on foreign cars because it would affect their income. So don’t bother hoping buy cheaper foreign cars ya.
Yup, the revenue is too good. Like dadah, once hooked it is difficult to give up.
As a car sucker myself, yes I really do wish we can drive the Perdana S90in 2 yrs time…
However as a mechanical engineer myself, Dr. M did make good arguments regarding jobs and national development.
Fellow mechanical engineers will agree engineering jobs in Malaysia while plentiful, is lacking of real upstream engineering. Factories and equipment for petroleum sectors are mostly foreign outsourced.
Proton itself is a classic case of great idea done badly due to politics. Proton could had gotten really serious gathering and build up knowledge and expertise during the early days with Mitsubishi. However polictics (and its greed) robbed Malaysia off a great initiative (could be initiative in disguise but let’s give it benefit of a doubt).
To horribly top it off, stupid segregated marketting (example: Iriz and Persona instead of Iriz Sedan and Iriz Hatch) which eats up resource and profit, along with half baked product (example: CamPro(file) w/o cam profiling).
If technical capability doesn’t permit yet, there should be no shame having foreign supplied engines or gearbox. The most important objective is for us to be able to build good quality car. There are more to car building than just having 100% local content!
Build a strong engineering base and develop from there. Having real quality automotive courses in local universities. We could easily had gone a long way.
If we really let a foreign partner take control of development, local engineers would end up being a coordinator and in-house purchaser. These are the boring jobs as far as engineering is concern.
However if we do it right, we could always start over again with the foreign partner as our technical leech victim and breakaway again when time is right. We should eliminate factors which is deemed to be an obstacle, whatever that is.
What we should do as a nation, is to take a company which celebrated it’s 100 years in existance not too long ago. From copying the horrible Austin Seven as its first model, almost gone bust when time gets hard, it as evolve into the most admirable car company today (as per Fortune). The company is no other than BMW.
I disagree about CAMPRO. it was a gud engine born prematurely. Those who have tried both Campro and CPS can tell u they perform night and day.
And comparing a 30yo company with a 100yo? LOLZ!
A 18yo company can buy a 32yo company? Shame on Proton!
Why not? Money knows no age, but technological advancement does.
Better luck next time bub!
John, I don’t see the point u r disagreeing with me because u r just repeating my points. Like you said, CamPro was premature… and it havent even mature yet after all these year. Imagine what it would had been if Proton is able to mature it. For good measure, PSA is relying on a good 1.6l engine design for its entire line up for over a decade! And it is just few years younger than CamPro.
Also the introduction 1.3l variant is a pure marketeer’s move to ask ppl spend more for 1.6l. The 1.3l engine is overly square which reduces it’s usability when compared to the 1.6l, and it does not bring any real milage advantage as well. On heavy load, the 1.3l is actually more thirsty than the 1.6l which is what the engine suppose to be.
And no, I did not ask for a BMW-Proton comparison. What we need is to understand Proton (though hell looks like a lost cause now) might not be a lost cause over a long run. BMW itself suffers its financial crisis days. The launch of their flagship sports car, 507 and M1 nearly killed them. The WW2. What I meant to say is if we show perserverence and commitment, like Tun M suggested, Proton could very well shine brightly as a symbol of a developed Malaysia.
However if Proton is still run by crooks and cronies, may Krishna save Malaysia…
Real question is… what was in control when Proton was protected? Why could they not build engineering capabilities? And with all the money spent, where are Proton’s capabilities demonstrated?
If we were to see Proton as a person, after 30+ plus years still want parents to top up earnings because he/she mismanages finances all the time and spends more than he/she earns……. would you still want to support this person?
Its still just a business… close it down, built it up, sell it off, split it up, bring new life… what ever it is life still goes on. DrM had his time with P1… it is his culture thats imbeded in P1… now it is proven that his culture of doing business doesn’t work. DRB shhould shove ur pride n do the right thing.
I understand that Proton is PM Mahatir’s pride and joy…..but if its flailing like now…he has to accept the bitter truth that his car company has to be sold off to foreign companies…
because what I am seeing here is exactly what happened to the UK car industry in the 70s…they went from making good cars to terrible cars..all due to poor management….but everything changed when foreigners took over the companies and their cars got better and sales improved dramtically…and the British are still proud of their car companies despite foreign ownership
So my verdict..sell it to Geely..it will seriously benefit the company
Malaysian you still didn’t get avoid the AP.
Last time the market condition was different.The protection to Proton was essential in the beginning as a kick start.But it should not continue after sometime.Automotive industry is a volume game.It must not be too nationalistic per say.It must compete in the same playing field of other brands.So National pride should not be long term strategy.It must grow its competitive edge without protection in a long run. Cars are considered non essential like food and medicine where govt subsidies and assistance or price control are required.So the industry must not be nationalised far too long.
Now its a bit too late to restructure the direction without external help where they can offer bigger market potential to make Proton survives.Getting market access n technology transfer are more crucial than saving the old vendors.It will detemine the fate of Proton..otherwise we can only see crafted Stone of Proton at Tg Malim in future.
http://paultan.org/2013/03/01/import-duties-japan-australia/
I agree that Proton have made vehicle prices in Malaysia more expensive, but do not understand what is preventing the present government, maybe environmental/climatic change, to reduce vehicle prices or is there some other political or economic reasons. Do not always blame the “manager” sometime the “players” are equally at fault
Once upon a time, we Malaysians are proud with Proton as our national cars, however lately why many of us want it to be scrapped or to be sold off to foreign automotive partner (Don’t tell us we want a low priced ‘brand new’ Japanese cars – it will never, i repeat it will NEVER happen. To interpret this statement, with zero import and excise duties or EEV rebate also car distributor especially sucker UMW Toyotaik will swept it as their extra profit margin, eg CKD Camry Hybrid without import and excise tax also sold at ridiculously RM175k while Vios TRD Stupidvo with EEV rebate sold at insane RM96k).
Reason: When your business were booming in 1990 era where Saga and Wira have long waiting list, most of your dealers will either ask for under the table extra fees (between RM3k to RM5k) or alternatively, took full accessories variant to skip long queue of car delivery (those thing not only happen in Proton, it does happen also to Perodua and Toyota during year 2005 era where Myvi and Avanza/Innova was selling like hotcake). Another reason is built quality of cars going down to drain after that with numerous ‘annoying’ issues (from year 2000 millennium era) and your service center looks like not interested to troubleshoot or solve the issues. The word ‘Biasalah, encik beli Proton memang macam tu punya’ is basically dragging your customers into shithole (that’s why the brand crisis getting worse where despite they produce a good car with proper safety spec – admittedly for Preve, Iriz and new Persona, customers still hesitant to buy it and rather go for less safe perodua or fork out extra money for Japanese cars – even in CKD form)
Lesson learnt from here is even with protectionist policy, if you treat customers like shit, don’t blame anyone other than themselves if they boycott and condemn your company/brand. Not only Proton in this news, even Toyotaik from sucker UMW also get boycotted as well (due to selling watered-down spec taik cars at exorbitant selling price for too long plus with their taik SA like to talk nasty about other brands as their selling point). The next car brand that need to be taught a lesson after this is Perodua (Building Cars, Profit First, Customer GTH also they don’t care is really evident by selling cheap and nasty junk cars with serious watered-down features and safety spec, also with exorbitant selling price)
it has been 6months & i havent see a single latest gen perdana on the road. at least not in penang
He is worried about the vendors? They are the ones that brought down Proton with defective parts. In any other country they would be recalled, replaced and pay a hefty fine.
We the Rakyat are still suffering the broke down power windows, alarm that goes off at anytime it likes, unreliable campro engines, defective suspension, literally every part is faulty.
Dr m may be a great statesman but businessman he certainly not.
If they change vendors, open tenders twenty years ago there n may be hope. It is now simply too late.
Just let go. Malaysia boleh
Blaming the vendor seems an easy way out. Most vendors also supply to other brands too. Maybe you should ask Proton on why they prefer substandard parts instead of those with same quality taken by other brands.
It was your doing, u create the crony culture, u hike the price of foreign cars and make most of the factory setup in Thailand instead of Malaysia.
The job u created was non inefficient and could not compete globally and end up rakyat have to paid for their debt when the proton CEO and his fellows sit in Air-conditioning having million salary a year without contributing.
It’s alright to be foreign owned if the products are of world standards so long as there are conditions that protect the livelihood of the workers, suppliers, etc. At least the products are made in Malaysia.
This is senile talking. Making less than 100,000 cars a year with 8 or more models? Those vendors in the cartel are long gone or dead if solely depending on Proton. I know some vendors who plead not to be invited for new programs!
Sell off or die.
no7 strongly agree
1. On the bright side, new owner could probably manage better than current. So it’s no longer a national car (not that most would really shed a tear over) but the name Proton remains, correct?
2. 1stly, cut the chase and get to the point, Proton IS protected by imposing exceptionally high import duties and the protection is still there. Strictly speaking, Malaysians shouldn’t be involved with transports cos everything about it is expensive and this includes public transports!
We don’t really need to import sub standard cars, we have been producing them for 3 decades!
5. I’m sure we can make it through, no worries. Its probably for the better.
6. I am sorry for them too but this is on Proton. You had 3 decades but now the time is up.
7. So what else is new?
Someone once said something like this….the stupid will keep doing the same thing but expecting a different outcome….
“The vendors and suppliers of components will close shop. Lots of workers will lose their jobs. And Malaysia’s engineering capacity will be reduced. It will not be a developed country in 2020 or later. Malaysia will remain a third world developing country.”
THIS is because you designed it as such.
THIS is because you created (some) poor vendors because you gave lop-sided deals.
Close it down.
We all rakyat happy to buy Perodua and Toyota.
Why sell proton? 1.5 billion per year is kacang for the government. Remember GST…..
Not even a pussycat!!
Proton is more like pussydoll
1. Tun M, “Profitable” in a sense making imports expensive and Proton affordable. Thus, people left with no choice, to buy Proton.
2. Tun M, that is how Proton sustained all this while. Even exported Proton was not profitable due to higher specs with cheaper price tag. Proton profit was from local sales.
3. Nowadays if talking about local brand, people opted for Perodua. People realize how low quality of your vendors really are Tun.
4. Your deceiving days are over. Proton was from you. Your means. Your tool. Your agenda.
5. Politicians are all corrupted. Difference is, the one living the limelight, is the one being pointed. The one that has passed is the good guy. Look at you. You have gone through this phases.
No matter how Proton clowns say it ….
1. Their mother’s boyfriend’s grandmother is using Proton, so far OK except some minor issue.
2. Release a manual version or R3 of this model and it will sell like hot cake.
3. This model is as good as BMW. Take my money.
the majority people out there are loathe with Proton.
What is there to be proud of having a national car project when the fact after so many years of protection we still can’t produce a decent car at decent price!!! It is only better after Proton adopted foreign technologies like the Inspira and current Perdana. Better learn from foreigners than staying stupid in your own cocoon. You can always fly out from your cocoon after you are smart. Protectionism only results in complacency and spoilt personalities. Learn to compete please,Proton. Don’t complain like a small kid asking for mom’s milk when you are already an adult.
Halo Tun M, we are already a 3rd world country. Thanks to your legacy and now tasting your own creation of Najib. Nobody can be blame except you. When you are pointing finger to Najib at point (7), you have 4 fingers pointing back to youself. Can you SUMPAH you never cheated rakyat at all ? You are lucky that in your era, internet is not advanced as now, and information is not as easy to be obtained now. But we know what you are doing in last 22 years. You have made our beloved country running by monkeys. If Perodua can do well, I don’t understand why Proton cannot. The reason is CORRUPTION. BN is too long in power, even folks that have very good integrity, but so many years, even a human will die and turn in to ghost because you and your cronies create loop holes in your own system to allow you to be corrupted and make your family filthy rich while rakyat suffers. Are you really saying all this sincerely and truly that you want to help rakyat or you have a 2nd agenda behind. I am sure is the latter and 101% not the former. Anyway, i have enough for your legacy, I WILL NEVER SUPPORT PROTON. I RATHER TAKE BUS AND NOT SPENT A PENNY TO PROTON
1. Proton has terrible R&D. They started to make their own engines very late into the game, in 2000 only with the help of Lotus. Remember proton started in early 80s! So before that and even now proton takes engines from Mitsubishi and I remember the disastrous Citroën engine reject that easily caught fire. Hah
2. Proton has awful designs except for some of the mitsubishi versions they copied. No recurring theme throughout its design history. Logo baru pun curi dari Thundercats.
3. Proton did not put enough money into marketing. Look at the figures from newcomers like Hyundai and you’ll be shocked at how much they spend per year.
4. Proton did not bother to develop any hybrid and electric engines for future market. Instead it just focused on old combustion technology engines. This won’t last obviously.
5. Finally, How do you know selling Proton won’t create more jobs locally? If the foreign company (most likely China, since we are already a province) buys it, they might pump in billions to develop and market it. Thats gonna create more jobs and many vendors. Or then again they might just scrap it and take Lotus tech haha. Either way I don’t see Proton making any waves with its cars. Welcome to the global world. You either innovate or you’re history.
10 years a go I buy ferrari only 2 Million. Today I buy new ferrari 200 Million…
in 10 years 100x mahal, this is all because of najib, proton and mahathir.
proton is a cancer…better get rid of it than letting rakyat suffer… without the need of protection to this cancer …car tax price can back normal …
I don’t care proton have been sold…
I care when is imported car taxes will drop? Proton is overpriced and have poor reliability…