Earlier this week we read news that Proton had proposed a six million British Pound out of court settlement for the name dispute between Team Lotus and Group Lotus, which was rejected by Team Lotus boss Tony Fernandes because it was too low. The settlement was basically for Tony to stop using anything to do with Lotus in his team name. It was not for Tony to tell his team to pack his bags and leave F1.
Tony would still have his organisation structure intact, but then this brings along a few other implications. His team was the best of the newcomers in 2010 in achieving 10th place, which comes together with prize money. There’s no official word on how much the prize money is as it’s all sealed in the most recent Concorde Agreement; however, the unofficial word is about 10 million pounds.
And that’s 10 million pounds that will vanish if the team settles and changes its name to something else. Changing the team’s name from Lotus Racing to Team Lotus for the 2011 season does not have this implication, as apparently your team name can change, even if the constructor’s name cannot be.
In this case, Tony’s team’s constructor name is “Lotus”, while the Lotus Renault GP constructor name is “Renault”. It’s quite obvious that ceasing using the name Lotus would mean changing the constructor name, hence no 10 million pounds.
Tony even suggested that accepting the six million pound offer would bankrupt his team. Now, before you say anything, this situation probably goes beyond the simple calculation of “six million pounds is less than 10 million pounds.”
Some of the money that the team currently has is probably very much to do with the fact that the team is named Lotus and comes packaged with a long glorious history. When a watch brand ties up with an F1 team they’ll want to have something fancy to say in their co-branding ads, and a one-season old team with a name like Air Asia F1 or Tune F1 isn’t going to be very appealing to sponsors. Apparel maker Hackett is no longer a sponsor for Team Lotus this year.
So what’s Tony’s idea of a fair sum for an out of court settlement? Proton’s Datuk Syed Zainal reveals that Tony was asking for between 22 million to 37 million pounds in November last year, which included the purchase of the name “Team Lotus” (which he had just bought from David Hunt) for five million pounds.
Minus the five million pounds for the name, and the remainder of the amount was supposed to cover various indirect costs like new brand development, loss of income from already produced merchandise, loss of sponsorship, etc.
Before it all fell apart… but what’s done is done.
According to Syed Zainal, it was unjustifiable for Tony’s 1Malaysia Racing Team to demand Group Lotus and Proton to compensate them for a problem which 1MRT got themselves into, and that Group Lotus cannot be made liable for the “commercial misadventure” that could have been avoided. Thus the proposed settlement was only for the purchase price of the Team Lotus name, subject to due diligence.
He added that 1MRT entered into a relationship with David Hunt’s Team Lotus Ventures with full prior knowledge that Group Lotus has been in a long standing legal dispute with Hunt’s company. Furthermore, the original Lotus Racing name licensing agreement stipulates that 1MRT cannot associate itself with Lotus or use the name Lotus if the agreement was terminated.
If you’ve been following the saga unfold so far, Tony has all along insisted that the grounds for termination of the Lotus Racing name licensing agreement by Group Lotus/Proton was unjustified, and was terminated over “some T-shirts”. This is in fact the basis of one of the court cases going on between the two parties – that the termination of the agreement was unlawful.
Syed Zainal says 1MRT could have easily remedied the breaches and continued with the “Lotus Racing” name this year if it was due to merchandising as claimed – which leads me to wonder if it was really about T-shirts after all. Proton’s own reason in the initial press release announcing the revocation of the brand licensing was “flagrant and persistent breaches of the licence which were damaging to the Lotus brand.”
Sounds like the inside story is much more complicated, even coming down to some alleging that Tony and his partners originally wanted to orchestrate a takeover of Group Lotus from Proton after proving their worth in F1. In any case, many have already aired their views on the whole row, including Lotus Renault GP team owner Gerard Lopez.
Group Lotus and Proton say they continue to hold the view that this matter should be resolved soon in the interest of F1 and the fans, and will remain open to reasonable and justified proposals to settle out of court. Right now they are only willing to pay for the name. Otherwise, we’ll see what happens in March in the UK courts.
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all the best untuk tony and co’s team lotus!
Yeah! All the best for the Team Lotus and say no to ugly company car Proton.
Go Tony!!!
the thumb down from those proton supporter. I support you Tony! thumb’s up yeah.
tony is a business man, which means he has million faces to twist facts…most of us dont really know the exact details , bt somehow tony looks like hes chasing the big meat….!
the fact that hes willing to settle the case for 2x million pounds means hes just looking for more money….he just want to milk it more…
i dont know….i just cant trust him…
agree with you, he is after something bigger. this is not about F1 racing anymore.
by the way LCCT and AirAsia customer service is a disgust to the country!!
nope….actually since he have invested so many on the “property” so its back on him to set the price and value….if proton want to stop him from using it…proton should buy it from him…but since the offer was so low….he wouldn’t letgo…
i think he was modest to only evaluate the value of that “propert”y at the same price he bought and not taking into accounts of overall money he spent on everything to make that “property” work…..
you can add the Kota Kinabalu airport fiasco which is ongoing right now as well…
**** to Proton and Group lotus. They had already lose . Meaning that Proton admit that name Team Lotus Is belong to Team Lotus by Tony team now. Tony want to test the seriousness of Proton but Proton just selfish and arrogant made them can’t got what they want. Better Group Lotus sponsor Team Lotus instead of Renault f1. What a waste of tax money of people in Malaysia. Government is government. F1 is F1.
Enough with the exploitation of the lotus name Mr. Tony Fernandez. out you go.
“Now, Everyone Can Have Lotus” new tagline for Group Lotus if TF can acquired the sport car manufacturer from Proton. I really hope that Proton’s DSZ word is accepted by the English Court. This agreement was terminated due to TF action and the thing was clearly spell out that he can’t abuse the name. If so, he can’t claim he need to recover the “lost” that he shouldn’t if he not misuse at the first place.
Only thing that l guess everyone not very clear is David Hunt’s outfit that made TF has been the right custodian of Team Lotus moniker through the Pound 5m or 2 m then.
Is it possible Paul for 1MRT to use the LOTUS name if permission is not GRANTED by Proton at first place?
Why not TF go direct to the outright owner David Hunt? Is it cheaper to go to Proton’s GL first before heading back to David Hunt’s TLVL?
Or by using enter the agreement with GL’s Proton made as if Hunt’s “outfit” cheaper to buy since attempt made by Proton to talk to Hunt unsuccessful?
Or….er… the winner of the Lotus saga not made in the grid or podium BUT in the court. The winner maybe too tired after this and it will affect their on track performance.
What the ****. Team Lotus name never belong to Group Lotus. Colin Chapman also didn’t want Group Lotus to intervene in F1. Go away Proton, better proton focus to build a better car. Their investment in Group Lotus is B******t, till now Proton can’t build really good car and Perodua are better than Proton. Another waste of people money.
since when perodua car is better than proton?
i’m driving the so called hotselling perodua myvi..and it sucks….big time..!
What a moronic comment from a Proton basher. Using the name “Team Lotus” doesn’t mean that TF owns the Lotus name. And you are now become more idiotic by saying that Proton’s investment in Lotus is bullshit. If Proton’s investment in Lotus is bullshit, then the Lotus Elise wouldn’t even exist at all, and so does Lotus as well.
What a moronic comment from Team Lotus basher. it’s not about lotus elise, it’s about what they get from investment in Lotus Cars and till now they should create a good car because Proton have Lotus technology. Another waste of rakyat money.
Once an idiot, forever an idiot. Are you a Team Lotus cybertrooper or what? Acquiring Lotus doesn’t mean that Proton should become a 100% sports car maker. If you think you so smart, then go and apply as an engineer at Proton and we’ll see whether you yourself can really make a new “good” car model. And if you think that Perodua is always better than Proton, then can you explain why until now Perodua can’t come up with even one self-developed model…? Since the launch of Kancil till now, the only thing they know is rebadge, no progress at all. So that you say not a waste of rakyat’s money…? What an idiot.
now everyone can have a lotus…LOL good 1 :P
Semua ni bagus juga untuk PROTON, nama PROTON pun dah kerap keluar @ ESPNF1. Makin ramai peminat F1 akan kenal PROTON walaupun tak pernah tengok kereta PROTON.
Yupe..kenal sebagai syarikat proton yang tamak dan suka membuli syarikat lain serta menghasilkan kereta yang teruk. Buktinya dalam ulasan dalam majalah topgear.
You’re an idiot if you take topgear seriously since they’re well known for their prejudice. They once said Proton cars are built in the jungle, now do you agree?
If proton is so bad, wonder why they featured Satria-Neo rally cars in one of the episodes recently?
may i know how many times they did completed the IRC race? hmmmm….. slalu ade je masalah teknikal (penyakit kereta proton) ….
Now DSZ by right has realized what has been plagued the Proton Group… overlooking small details (FinePrints) and take for granted approaches within the Proton Group.
If you are in business… of many rules you must hold close to your chest… one of the important rule is NEVER take things for granted.
Pity DSZ has to learn this the hard way… and by a fellow Malaysian some more..
/facepalm.
If F1 and fan interest they are looking for, Proton/Group Lotus should have not enter into this year F1 races by sponsoring a Belgian company. Instead, they should wait until the court case settle or even better, if they can settle it out of court. By sponsoring Renault, they not only confusing the everybody, they really drag their good name along with what TF is planning to do.
F1 supremo and everybody in it seem to be happy with TF Team Lotus and they are more than willing to accommodate Lotus Renault not because it is a Lotus but it is a Renault sponsored by Lotus. The way F1 management sees it is that TF Team Lotus is Lotus and Lotus Renault it Renault sponsored by Group Lotus. No infringement what so ever on the basic rule of F1 team. The sad thing is that Proton/Group Lotus decided to play along with what TF is being doing and along with it, tarnish Group Lotus name among their fans because the way they see it, Group Lotus come in as a big bully trying to pry Team Lotus name from a little businessman like TF. How cunning TF is portraying himself as a such, using the fact that they built the team from scratch comparing with Group Lotus which seems like trying to buy success by sponsoring a good team like Renault.
And, to be associate with Renault not a few years after Singapore scandal is really not a good business decision. They could have persuaded TF to sell TL at a lower price and develop a true F1 race team from scratch a la Collin Chapman way. There is one reason I think most people fail to see, that is Dany Bahar. He want to part of F1 (he used to be one in Red Bull and Ferrari) and he want it alone (the glory, that is). He want to be remembered as the person who bring back the glory of Lotus. I like the idea of having Lotus in motorsport to help build Lotus image as they are planning to sell some wicked numbers of road cars in the future. Motorsport did help Ferrari become a legendary name and that is what Bahar is trying to emulate. Then he stumbled upon Team Lotus Ventures which Group Lotus has been at odd with since the 90es and then TF, a cunning businessman like him who always at odd with everybody.
I know I’m babbling. But all this while I don’t see any article about Group Lotus want to sponsor Team Lotus (like what they used to do during their heydays). Instead, what I see is that Group Lotus do not like TF to have a deal with David Hunt and potentially, they really want to be in F1 themselves. Which by the way, is not the way it was when Team Lotus was around doing great racing in the 60es, 70es and 80es. This mess is created by both parties being hard headed.
someone is twisting a fact here by stating that GBP 6m can make the team bankrupt.
I believe the team will be exist & intact as usual. Maybe they should ask GBP 16m (6m+10m), but instead he wanna sell off the thing & get out off F1 for 37m.
weird.
lol at all the protong-lovin losers. It took Tony to make them realise what a money-spinner Lotus could be. All the while it was sitting under their flat noses and the only money they could make out of it was some stoopid ‘Handling by Lotus’ stickers on their ‘cars’. Bodoh!
I really salute TF with his very2 low fare but in this case i do hope Proton will win. Any money goes to TF is a Rakyat Money. Sorry TF.
can u be more specific? if u say the money goin to tony is rakyats money, then hw bout proton? wit air asia u have a choice to use or not, but in case of proton most people dont! have to buy that brand due to unfair taxing, and if u think properly, we are all loosing due to super high car prices in malaysia. plus a useless public transport, which mean we have no choice but to buy car at high price.
I would not complain if i have a choice here, i.e proper public transport. and this is all caused by so called protectionism of proton. Now they behaving like a big shot car company investing huge money in F1 and a so called supercar company??!! wher is the logic? I call this misguided goal.
If proton can do well in the basic level >>> making good, reasonable priced and safe cars, then its ok to go to the next stage. Being known as a government backed auto company and investing huge money in motorsports and supercar developement in not somethin to proud of, nor a good achievement. unfortunately thats the image proton has. I hope the management will be more practical in the future. past mistakes seems like forgotten……….
bodoh!
he said “Any money goes to TF is a Rakyat Money”… means any money poton will pay to TF he assume it is ‘rakyat money’..
Tony Fernandes do business, he don’t want to lose the 10th place F.O.M. prize money, maybe this is why this case still can’t be settle outside of court.
they must meet Bernie Ecclestone to make everything clear.
Tony Fernandes also must think that LOTUS brand already bankrupt, cannot make this mess too long as it will only make LOTUS brand more worst, PROTON is trying to revive back LOTUS brand to its greatness, hopefully Tony Fernandes will understand this.
Tony Fernandes GP2 Team AirAsia is already can score podium finish in its debut in GP2, imagine that AirAsia name in newspapers everywhere with that kind of fame.. it will bring more good fortune for his AirAsia company.. it is good that Malaysia have 3 F1 team (sponsored and owned), it will bring more good knowledge for Malaysian kids as F1 is a sport that is really technical, a small tiny change to the car can make a huge difference of the winning chances.
why dont proton do it before Tony doing it with Lotus? They should have stop him when Tony buying the name! Proton is seeing others success and wanted to grab it. Thats it. Revive Lotus? with Renault engine? what is it to do with Proton?
Revive what? Better Proton focus to revive Proton brand itself. Tony is the first guy who revive the name Team Lotus and Proton want some of it. Don’t hope so. It is not about lose money. His has big shareholders which didn’t use rakyat money with him and Team Lotus is a independent team. Look like a lot of them just still didn’t know a lot more about the history between Team Lotus and Lotus Cars. Team Lotus had bought Team Lotus name from David Hunt and Lotus Cars had bought by Proton.
You think that buying the already dead Team Lotus from David Hunt means that TF can simply use the Lotus name ikut suka hati mak bapak dia ke? Don’t be an idiot. When Ross Brawn purchased Team Honda when Honda withdrew its involvement in F1, did he use the Honda’s name again in his Brawn GP? No right? It’s like you’re legalizing a car hijacker to hijack a car and then claim it as his own car.
Lembu punya susu Samy dapat nama!
The current Group Lotus has got nothing to do with “Team Lotus” and TF “Team Lotus” got nothing to do with the historic Colin Chapman’s “Team Lotus”.
The “Lotus” brand rights belongs to the car manufacturer.
Because this is all about $$ and past glory, they can’t let the historic name “Team Lotus” to rest.
TF could use “Team Air Asia” name in F1 as he did in GP2. Why didn’t he? If he’s smart, he can renegotiate with Proton/Lotus to get away with the problem by having the name changed to “Team Air Asia F1 tuned by Lotus”. Ha..ha.
Yes, you can say that current TF Team Lotus got nothing to do with historic Colin Chapman’s Team Lotus. Having said that, if you ever revive a brand name back from the dead, you will certainly bring along its history no matter what other people perceive. When Mercedes Benz bring back the brand Maybach, they did refer back to the history and glamourous of Maybach in the olden days even though Mercedes Benz have no connection what so ever with it. Same goes with McLaren.
You see, no matter who owns Team Lotus, they will certainly bring along the history of the company with them where ever they go. Even when they paste a huge Team Lotus logo onto a jet plane tail-fin, they will still relate it with the original Team Lotus lotus because the brand name Team Lotus is related to that history no matter what you say. It is like Pharoah with the Pyramid. Even if you build a mega pyramid now, people will not relate you with the pyramid. They will relate it with the Pharoah even if he ceased to exist more than 2000 years ago.. Silly, I know, but that is the way it is.
I agree with you. TF is the sapi, while the Group Lotus is the lembu. TF wants to use the susu lembu (Lotus’ name) and then wants to claim it as his own minyak sapi.
about the F.O.M. money for 10th place, it is reported that the reward is £17million
http://en.espnf1.com/virgin/motorsport/story/20596.html
Tony Fernandes Asked For “Between 22-37 Million Pounds To Settle Dispute” with PROTON
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsbusiness.php?id=564464
so let’s do calculation..
TEAM LOTUS name value offered by PROTON = £6 MILLION
F.O.M. money for 10th place that LOTUS RACING got last season = £17 MILLION
£6 MILLION + £17 MILLION = £23 MILLION
i think that is why Tony Fernandes asked for at least £22 MILLION.
“Once the settlement was agreed to by both parties, the “Team Lotus” name would unequivocally be vested with Group Lotus,” – PROTON
the next Concorde Agreement is in year 2013, Lotus Renault GP want to change its chassis name to LOTUS but Tony Fernandes do not want to lose the Formula One Management prize money.
“We want to fight at the top end of the grid. We understand that for the next two years we need to learn about F1, the car will be a Renault and so on, but then when we have a new Concorde Agreement, hopefully [in 2013] we can possibly change the name, we’ll see where we are and learn over two years.” – Dany Bahar (Group Lotus CEO)
http://en.espnf1.com/renault/motorsport/story/36586.html
question is if current Tony Fernandes Team Lotus change name to Team AirAsia, plus change its chassis name to AirAsia (as that is the name Tony Fernandes use in his GP2 team) and PROTON Lotus Renault GP chassis name change to LOTUS.. will PROTON gain that £17 MILLION back??
then this case can be settle out of court as soon as possible, PROTON already allocate £6 MILLION for Tony Fernandes.
Formula One Management CEO is Bernie Ecclestone, PROTON-GROUP LOTUS, Tony Fernandes must meet this person to make everything clear, plus make new clear agreement with them.. once the F.O.M. money for that 10th place received, it should be given to Tony Fernandes.. and PROTON Lotus Renault GP must be allowed to change its chassis name to LOTUS.
“and Proton Lotus Renault GP must be allowed to change its chassis name to Lotus”…
That is a weird statement because all this while that Lotus Renault GP is known as Renault since it is Renault. It will be hard a well known F1 team to change their name another well known F1 team. It is possible but I think it will be really hard to do that. Other teams might not agree.
“We are not customers of Renault, we do not pay their engines. We partner with a technology exchange” – Eric Boullier
“For now it stays like this for two years then we’ll see what the new Concorde Agreement will provide,” – Dany Bahar
“We understand that for the next two years we need to learn about F1, the car will be a Renault and so on, but then when we have a new Concorde Agreement, hopefully [in 2013] we can possibly change the name, we’ll see where we are and learn over two years.” – Dany Bahar
“Lotus is a British manufacturer,” – Eric Boullier
“I have not said before, but we will now run under a British license. This means that if we win, we’ll play the British national anthem, and it’s important for everyone within the team” – Eric Boullier
http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/lotus-renault-gp
What is the point? They are still Renault and to change their chassis name to Lotus, other F1 teams have to agree with it. Que TF…
not even a single of RENAULT share left in Lotus Renault GP
you can try to check here, none of RENAULT man left in Lotus Renault GP, Dany Bahar (LOTUS GROUP CEO) now is i the board of director in Lotus Renault GP
http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/lotus-renault-gp
“We are not customers of Renault, we do not pay their engines. We partner with a technology exchange” – Eric Boullier
RENAULT only remain as the supplier of LOTUS RENAULT GP F1 engine.
“For now it stays like this for two years then we’ll see what the new Concorde Agreement will provide,” – Dany Bahar
“We understand that for the next two years we need to learn about F1, the car will be a Renault and so on, but then when we have a new Concorde Agreement, hopefully [in 2013] we can possibly change the name, we’ll see where we are and learn over two years.” – Dany Bahar
Lotus Renault GP will change its chassis name to LOTUS once the new Concorde agreement will be sign in year 2013.
“Lotus is a British manufacturer,” – Eric Boullier
“I have not said before, but we will now run under a British license. This means that if we win, we’ll play the British national anthem, and it’s important for everyone within the team” – Eric Boullier
Lotus Renault GP is not under French license anymore but under British license as Lotus is British manufacturer.
“We have a contract for engine supply without knowing yet what the name of the team will be.. We don’t want to get involved in this quarrel, it’s up to Renault and Proton to sort this out. The deal with Tony Fernandes is a little complicated by this name business, but his team has shown itself to be the most active of the three new teams in 2010.” – Jean Francois Caubet, general manager of the Renault Sport F1 unit
“We are very comfortable with Lotus Cars, which is not a direct competitor. They produce 2000 cars a year, our relationship with Proton is also excellent. The market is global now and Malaysia must open its borders (to foreign vehicle imports) and Proton must come out of isolation to conquer new markets. So it needs a strong car maker ally. They want to work with us, so industrial and strategic links are in place way above what is going on in F1.” – Jean Francois Caubet, general manager of the Renault Sport F1 unit
Jean Francois Caubet is previously in the Renault F1 Team board of director but after Lotus Renault GP formed, his contract is terminated, now Dany Bahar is in the board o director.. Renault is looking for wider colaboration with PROTON and LOTUS CARS, and it is not just in F1.
“However, we have plans under way to think about our own engine family in our road car programmes for the future. The fact that we have announced that we will be developing an engine for IndyCar for 2012 shows you already that we are heavily interested in becoming an engine manufacturer with our own brand. We have the capacity. We built and design engines for other OEMs, so there is no reason why we cannot design and build engines for ourselves.Once you commit to motor racing, you have to go all the way up. I don’t want to rule this out – but this is way ahead of us and not an issue at the moment.” – Dany Bahar
PROTON and Lotus Group want to be manufacturer in F1, they want that Lotus Renault GP to be call LOTUS and will develop own LOTUS F1 engine in the future.. both IndyCar and F1 will use Turbo engine in the future.
both of them dont have the “class” to bare the iconic, legendary name of “Lotus”…this whole thing is a joke…how ever you wanna sugar-coat it, lotus racing has always been a joke IMO…proton is making a joke out of themselves by jeopardizing the Lotus brand since day one of their “co-op” with Team Lotus…this whole thing made both of em look stupid…PETRONAS made the right decision by not involving themselves with these second division people by teaming up with Mercedes; cause they arent confident with these pretenders’ abilities, and it shows….
the funny thing is PROTON / GROUP LOTUS thought they sponsor RENAULT the CAR COMPANY; when the sad fact is that they sponsor the belgian company..
RENAULT is much more visible on RB7 red bull racing rather than on TEAM LOTUS and LRGP…
totally agree. GL wit all the hoo haa now suddenly support renault & belgian company, diff constructors name (renault), etc. The clear winner here is dany bahar and his f1 ambitions. proton supporters seem very happy wit it & and the fact that all the money is goin to the foreigners to support their dreams, while somehow condemn another fellow malaysian who is trying to achieve the same thing. well done dany b.
Belgian company?? SeriuosSAM is a PROTON diehard bashers.. now everybody just follow this basher.
Genii Capital is Luxembourg company not a Belgian company.
oppss.. sorry my bad…
it’s lexumbourg company
Easy mistake. Luxembourg, Belgium almost the same.
almost the same?.. which part?.. the ass?
Dr.M look so nerd
Syed/Proton do not like to see Tony’s success after their high profile marketing strategy (same to MAS dont like AA making success), since we know how some umnoputra ego is. Why cant they use Proton-Renault? that will be such a good 2 Malaysia team challenging? Proton is intend to mark world wide right?, there is no better chance then using Proton then Renault?
The Proton management is so scared that they wanna capitalized on Tony’s success instead of using own brand name. Why dont they do that BEFORE Tony goes into F1? We have Sepang F1 for years and Proton makes no enter into it?
Its the same those putras mind set, when someone is success, they just want to grab it, its in ALL INDUSTRIES in the country.
Tony, dont give it up man. This is international, they cant just bully u as they want. Simply spend the Proton money in paying Team Lotus explain the failure of Proton in management the company spending. Using Proton-Renault will just save them 6million pounds!!
Tony Fernandes made success, but at what expense? AirAsia (sorry to be pedantic, but it annoys me to no avail when people use AA to refer to AirAsia. AA is American Airlines! Use the full name please) had a lot of things handed to them. The 1st year of AirAsia under Tony Fernandes’ ownership MAB gave him a waiver & discounts on airport fees – not the taxes that passengers pays with their ticket, mind you, this is the cost of parking their planes etc. The whole flap with the MAB was because he didn’t want to start paying them airport fees when they started to make money.
Same goes for Lotus Racing. Proton dealt with TF in good faith and what did he do? He backstabbed them by dealing with David Hunt to get the Team Lotus name when he knows Proton & Lotus really wanted that name. Dany Bahar has an ambitious plan to revive Lotus, which is why he is aggressive in pursuing this matter. It’s also why only now that Proton’s interested to be involved in F1. If Tony Fernandes didn’t do what he did, I’m fairly certain this issue wouldn’t have occured!
The same question could be asked of Tony Fernandes, why not name his team Team AirAsia? AirAsia is a well known brand, especially in the UK where their name is plastered all over the refs during Premier League games. Plus, they’ve already sponsored Williams, so they have F1 continuity. Why didn’t they? Morally, even if in the old days Team Lotus & Group Lotus was structured separately, Group Lotus should have the rights to the Team Lotus name because they have the continuity, being the same company founded by Colin Chapman.
I’m sorry, but I can’t support Tony Fernandes on this. He has shown that he’s not above twisting the facts (the press release saying they’ve won the court case when in fact they had not, only that the judge wanted to combine the two cases into one hearing). So, who’s to say the facts he presented are entirely correct?
“It’s also why only now that Proton’s interested to be involved in F1. If Tony Fernandes didn’t do what he did, I’m fairly certain this issue wouldn’t have occured!”
Don’t be so naive lah. Going into F1 is not like deciding what sayur to buy at the pasar. GL/Proton had plans to go in F1 well before this became an issue. Bahar wanted to do it but TF already ahead and so was in the way.
You don’t ‘decide to go into F1’ just because the party you gave your license to allegedly broke agreements. You’d sue their pants off for damages, rather than ‘decide’ to blow your own small fortune in a venture which everyone knows is like a bottomless pit for money.
What I meant was that although Sepang had played host to F1 for more than a decade, only now did Proton want to enter in F1, because under the leadership of Dany Bahar they wanted to revive the Lotus name to its former glory. So they started in partnership with Tony.
Everything was amicable at first. Heck, Proton launched a limited edition Lotus Racing Satria Neo for god sakes. Only when Tony went behind their backs did they start to sever their ties. Like I said, if Tony didn’t do what he did, surely Proton’s partnership with the team will continue.
Hope that is clear enough.
This is a business world, Tony made it with his first move. What did proton do before all this happen? They could have do it when the F1 circuit launched! It easier to say Proton is planning this la, that la, and its similar to the politician saying…”I could have do this in 19xx years to stop this, stop that”, but infact, he/she didnt do anything then. So? There is nothing happened since it is not easy to make the 1st move. It is much more easier to grab some others success model. It’s similar Tony bought the airline from a debt owned company and revived it, and its similar that MAS tried to use FireFly to challenge them now instead of challenging the SIA, and Thai. If you happened to be in LA airport, see how MAS counter is compare to SIA and Thai. Its much simpler to kill own people (using some Gov power) then challenge the outside world since many people has been doing business living under protection and privilege for long. And that is Protong.
Read my post. Proton didn’t need to launch their F1 endavour before this because they don’t see the need. Only when Dany Bahar planned to revive the Lotus name did they start to think about F1. That’s why they collaborated with Tony Fernandes at first. Then he went behind their backs and backstabbed them. Like I said, if he didn’t do that, Proton probably wouldn’t have needed to break away!
Besides, who said Proton wasn’t interested in F1 before? In 1997, Dr. M was in contact with 3-time F1 champion Jackie Stewart about collaborating with him to form a Malaysian F1 team, the very same team that 13 years later under the guise of Red Bull Racing won the championship. Wisely he realised the money spent would not be reasonable, so in the end the G only sponsored Stewart Racing in the guise of Visit Malaysia Year 1997. Don’t believe me, go read up Jackie Stewart’s biography.
If i’m not mistaken, tony only dealt with david hunt once his contract was terminated by proton, not the other way around. He and his shareholders invested so much money in 1MRT, then wat do you expect, to just let it go? Wat would u do if u are in his place? forget bout the millions invested and move on? Bare in mind that if the name lotus was not in the deal, i dun think tony and his partners would have invested all those money. Coz brand name is vital in business, especially when talkin about sponsors. In the 1st place, if proton was not interested, it should not sign a 5 yr contract then terminate it just like that. Well this is one the points in dispute in court now, the reasons used by proton to terminate the contract.
And regarding the courts decision on summary judgement filed by GL, it is considered in favour of tony. This is why: In law, a summary judgment is a determination made by a court without a full trial. GL wanted that, on the basis that they claim tony’s case has no basis at all. If at all it was it was granted, it means that tony lost the case without a full trial. REPEAT : IF SUMMARY JUDGEMENT WAS GRANTED FOR GL, IT MEANS THAT TONY LOST THE CASE. But the court rejected it, which means the case will go to full trial. The decision will only be made once the full case is presented in court in front of the jury, and thank god its not in Malaysia. No one twisted any facts here, its just most people did not understand the terms used.
And if u not happy wit air asia, dun use it, as simple as that. MAS is always there for you buddy. if u not happy does not mean that the other millions benefiting from air asia dont deserve it.
one more thing… I am proton basher? dude, you should check out other paul, dany and anthony article about PROTON that have my comment in it..
does not agree at certain thing that PROTON do; doesn’t mean I am PROTON basher
you should know the different between BASHER and CRITIC
Now you know why Ananda Krishnan has taken
nearly all his prime companies “private” rather than to
list them on Bursa Malaysia.
So Tony all the best !!
At least you stand a better chance in the UK courts.
alright! straight to the bulleye! Its never about the F1!
the next question is how much PROTON charge Tony Fernandes to race under its license by using the LOTUS name last season.
anybody knows?? i think it is none, free of charge.
Forgive my blabbering, I just feel like ranting.
There’s been many talks by TF’s Lotus fans abt how Group Lotus and Team Lotus were seperate and should remain as such. I think not since the glue that binds them was Colin Chapman. If ever, this belief means Proton (owner of GL) should be the owner of TL too.
But they’re not. They couldn’t in the past, and now TF have it. That’s fine except the future direction of TL is determined by TF… and Dany Bahar fear it won’t be in line with his plan. Now there’s conspiracy of TF wanting to buy GL? I doubt it but the thought of TF’s greed is really ridiculous. What does he want to achieve? Gift to fans? So everyone can buy a Lotus?
So it’s best GL to take things into their own hand. Then Genii came and the result is Lotus-Renault. As Gerard Lopez said, their partnership is beyond F1, a good deal for Lotus and Proton’s expansion plan. Nothing personal, just business. Just as Petronas did.
TF, I respect your success with Air Asia, but just for this, back down already. There is just no other logical reason than the money for you to cling on to Lotus when you already have the world’s best budget carrier to promote. £6m too little? It’s to compensate the relevant cost, your £5m purchase, not all other stuffs. Those are irrelevant costs, as far as GL’s concerned. Suck it!
TF plan to move from airline business to car business. airline is very sensitive biz, one or two plane crash can bring down the whole company. with cars, hari-hari accident also still can sell..
“I think not since the glue that binds them was Colin Chapman. If ever, this belief means Proton (owner of GL) should be the owner of TL too.”
When Group Lotus was sold to GM around 1986 how did it affect Team Lotus? Likewise when Team Lotus was sold to Peter Collins etc in the late 80s how did that affect Group Lotus?
headache la. reading this kind of news…
want this nonsense between potong and tony to end quickly…
gun says:
18/2/2011 at 5:17 pm
If i’m not mistaken, tony only dealt with david hunt once his contract was terminated by proton, not the other way around. He and his shareholders invested so much money in 1MRT, then wat do you expect, to just let it go?
“The whole ownership structures of Lotus are very complicated, but we’ve unravelled them,” Fernandes told BBC Sport.
“We want to own our own future and not license it from someone else. The future of Lotus Racing and Team Lotus is very secure and it is now in our hands.”
The smart guy TF has vast experience in British business and its environment, definitely he easily can convinced HUNT more than Proton guy. BUT why he didn’t use the name straight away from the beginning but license from poor Proton???? He said he bought the name (using buying house analogy) but buying the house from Proton though his outfit was named 1MRT. It puzzled me why DSZ and the gang never sense this! His antics with MAB still not settle but ironically saying he’s not little man. Big man should pay MAB’s fee, dude.
This thing never happen if Proton don’t give permission and l also wonder how much Proton was paid if he really “buy” their ‘house’.
Perhaps, Dr Mahathir should advise TF?
http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/40327.html)
PS: I never own a Proton or will own it in near future BUT l can’t help myself but really sick to TF antics.
You know Kimi Raikonen Fan, you can really fools anybody using different names to make your point. We know already you are Lotus Renault lover.
this fiasco started when TF proudly exclaimed he have all the commercial rights for the Lotus name (not only Team Lotus or Lotus Racing, but “Lotus”)…this put Proton & Group Lotus into a predicament in which TF could manipulate his way into using the Lotus name undeservingly. A simple example, can you imagine the implication if TF take some rubbish China made car, and rebadge it to “Lotus” ? That gonna really hurt Group Lotus image as a whole..I think that is what Proton & GL actually meant by TF could put them into a commercial misadventure (that is them putting in nicely)…
Agreed. That’s what will happen if someone doesn’t want to respect other people’s culture. JWW Birch was killed because he didn’t respect the Malay culture. Burma War started long time ago just because of one silly thing: the British officers refused to take off their shoes when entering Burmese houses. In this case here, TF claims that he can use the Lotus name in any way that he likes without respecting Group Lotus and Proton as the rightful owners. In Mat Salleh’s culture, you can simply be sued if you use a brand name without the consent of the brand name’s owner.
you are putting assumption in argument.
Team Lotus’ response to Proton’s statement:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89541
“IT’S ALL ABOUT MONEY, IT’S ALL ABOUT THE DUM DUM”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFv6aQNnmzc
We find strange ways of showing
them how much we really care
when in fact
we just don’t seem to care at all
This pretty world
is getting out of hand
So tell me how we fail to understand?
It’s all ’bout the money
It’s all ’bout the dum dum…….
And I don?t think It?s funny
to see us fade away
It’s all ’bout the money
It’s all ’bout the dum dum…
and I think we got it all wrong anyway
Anyway
Cause it’s all ’bout the money
…
at last what Gerard Lopez said is really true
“I am aware of the negotiations that took place, and I know that money is essentially the centre piece of this. It’s not passion, it’s not taking over Colin Chapman’s legacy or whatever. It’s a fact that if 1Malaysia Racing changes their name, they stand to lose their FOM (Formula One Management) money. And yeah, it’s an issue for them, and it’s probably one I wouldn’t take too kindly to if I was in their shoes. Obviously I would be fighting, but they should be honest and say that – just admit to the reality, it’s nothing else.” – Gerard Lopez
at last Tony Fernandes Team Lotus admit it!!!
“However, what Proton fails to mention is that the vast majority of the compensation sought by 1MRT was to cover the loss of FOM revenue awarded to the team for their efforts on track in 2010.1MRT asked Proton to indemnify them against the potential loss of prize money from FOM which would have resulted from 1MRT having to change its chassis name. The compensation sums being discussed for 1MRT leaving aside the FOM revenue were not overly generous, which is specifically why Proton has not included that in their statement yesterday.With the FOM revenue included the sums are reasonable – without referring to it Proton are able to paint 1MRT as greedy which is why they are deliberately excluding that key point.” – Tony Fernandes Team Lotus statement
“I hope CEO Syed would do the same and be accountable for his actions in front of the nation if his overly ambitious plan for Group Lotus fails.” – Tony Fernandes Team Lotus statement
after blaming Dany Bahar, now blaming PROTON CEO Syed.. so who is the next to blame.
IT’S ALL ABOUT MONEY!
Kimi Raikkonen fan (I believe that’s you actually), pls just summarise. Keep ur post short and simple.
Anyway, I mentioned above and I repeat: loss of revenue from FOM is irrelevant as far as GL-Proton is concerned. The compensation is specifically for the name right. That is what Proton is saying in the title: they’re not liable for that prize money loss. Suck it up Tony, take it positively, u could get some tax benefit from this loss, u’ve done this before with MAB. You’ll thank Proton. And you can then start naming your team Air Asia Racing or something, bringing your company higher.
And seriously, getting personal and over-confident to say GL should answer to rakyat should they fail? He’s underestimating Dany Bahar, he thinks nothing of Red Bull and Ferrari or what? Green with envy, it fits your cars are green.
most of the talk is about money.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFv6aQNnmzc
“However, what Proton fails to mention is that the vast majority of the compensation sought by 1MRT was to cover the loss of FOM revenue awarded to the team for their efforts on track in 2010.1MRT asked Proton to indemnify them against the potential loss of prize money from FOM which would have resulted from 1MRT having to change its chassis name. The compensation sums being discussed for 1MRT leaving aside the FOM revenue were not overly generous, which is specifically why Proton has not included that in their statement yesterday.With the FOM revenue included the sums are reasonable – without referring to it Proton are able to paint 1MRT as greedy which is why they are deliberately excluding that key point.”
whatever the verdict at the the end of the day Proton will win becoz behind Proton is Tun Dr M who can run havoc to not only Tony F1 team but his Air Asia if he crossed the Grand Ole Man of Malaysia enuff.
I
here is Dr Mahathir official statement about Tony Fernandes “Team Lotus”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msRKAha9HL8
Wassup with Mahathir wearing his pants high up to his elbow level??? :S
TF started the problem by acquiring rights to race under the “Lotus” brand for 1MRT in F1.
But 1MRT is nothing about 1Malaysia but run as profit making company. Proton/Lotus is also not involved in the development of F1 car. It is 1MRT is syiok sendirian berhad.
After the Lotus rights was terminated by Proton, TF started another problem by acquiring rights of historic “Team Lotus” to race F1. Again “Team Lotus” has got nothing to do with Lotus car manufacturer. It is still syiok sendirian berhad.
TF could have raced 1MRT car as “Team 1Malaysia” but he wanted to keep the Lotus moniker since he can milk value from it.
Lotus is fortunate now to have Turkey-born Dany Bahar as CEO. He’s well known in F1 circles. He wanted to introduce KERS in future Lotus road cars. Come 2013, F1 teams will be using 4 cyclinders 1.6 engine to race. Lotus may be even become an engine manufacturer in F1.
There are so many reasons why Lotus/Proton should be in F1 or in motorsports. For TF and 1MRT, we must tell them go fly kite – Lotus moniker belongs to the car manufacturer.
1MRT must start using the Jalur Gemilang as official colors for the F1 car else they must stop abusing the 1Malaysia moniker and abandon 1MRT.
The order is wrong. Tony acquired TL name first, reported on 24th Sept 2010:
http://paultan.org/2010/09/24/its-official-lotus-racing-will-be-called-team-lotus-in-2011/
27th Sept 2010, Proton revokes Lotus name:
http://paultan.org/2010/09/27/breaking-proton-revokes-lotus-brand-licensing-from-1-malaysia-racing-team/
This basically means TF brought this disaster upon himself. But of course, Proton too gets a good deal with Renault. Move on then, it’s just business. Let TF taste his own medicine when he decided to acquire TL name, taking what’s rightfully GL’s in the first place. How opportunist since Hunt’s not on good terms with GL.
Go fly kite, hehe, I like that.
u r genius tokmoh!
it look obvious based on the date that it’s all about the money.
In reply to tokmoh on this statement:
“This basically means TF brought this disaster upon himself. But of course, Proton too gets a good deal with Renault. Move on then, it’s just business. Let TF taste his own medicine when he decided to acquire TL name, taking what’s rightfully GL’s in the first place. How opportunist since Hunt’s not on good terms with GL.”
How many times do people has to explain that Team Lotus was never ever belong to Group Lotus???If Group Lotus truly own Team Lotus, why on earth nobody went to chase Group Lotus for money when Team Lotus was in debts?Simple, because they were registered as different companies!
As for acquiring TL assets and trademark, yes it is true that TF announced they’re going to race as TL in 2011 which a few days later Proton and GL announced they will revoke the license and refrain TF from using “Lotus”.BUT THEY DIDN”T MENTIONED TERMINATE THE LICENSE because TF opt for TL assets!!!Why?because TF’s contract wasn’t terminated for this reason,it was bcoz GL and Proton had ideas to run their own F1 after being brainwashed by Dany Bahar.That’s why Proton and GL use trivial issues such as violation over some T-shirts as an excuse.For your info, GL’s staff were already working with Renault F1 team for 2011 season since August 2010. So which party actually had earlier ideas to take out and back stab the other party?Also in an interview with Dr. Mahathir, it was clearly stated by him that Proton was not happy with their performance, that’s why they opt for Renault.So again, what does this got to do with TF buying TL assets and trademark that got him into all this mess?NOTHING!!!!GL and Proton has been keep changing their statements all this time!WAKE UP guys!
And since I’m on this topic, didn’t GL and Proton been keep saying that TL belongs to them and that TL’s assets and trademark are not David Hunt to sell?Then why GL and Proton so generous doing charity by trying to buy the assets and trademark from TF now for 6mil pound and wish to settle out of court???Can someone that says TL belongs to GL please answer this question.
Tokmoh,
Don’t belittled Tony. He’s the winner of 2010 season for the best rookie team, even beat his mentor Sir Richard Branson’s. He think that he can win in the court, that’s why he syiok sendiri.
This was what made me dumbfounded: Lotus Group terminated the license to 1MRT over some T-shirts design problems.
try to think this,
To qualify for the prize money, the team has to finish in top 10 in two years running.
if Tony Fernandes cannot get top 10 this season then they will gain nothing of the prize money.. F1 is not a play2 business, this is really a very big gamble!
if do not perform this year.. most probably Tony Fernandes “Team Lotus” wannabe will gulung tikar, Group Lotus i think already think of it.. if that worst case scenario happen, it will not affect Group Lotus as bad as before this.
lolz….some dumb people making own assumption statement saying dany bahar wanted to cooperate with Tony and that Tony back stabbed him…..C’mon when Tony approached big G to set up 1MRT, dany bahar wasn’t even hired at GL at that point of time, how is it possible that Dany Bahar wanted to cooperate with Tony and his Co?because he’s so busybody and have nothing better to do?????hahahaha
See? This is why Proton shouldn’t be involved in F1. It should devote more time to developing better Proton cars rather than get involved in F1.