Proton has started putting up a teaser promotion for it’s new sedan on it’s website. We call it the GEN2 Sedan, however it looks like the new Proton sedan might most likely be called something else altogether.
Click here to check out the teaser. There’s not much information there really, other than a shadowy outline of the car which we’ve seen already in all the spyshots so far. However, if you click on the booking link, you’ll be able to see a list of colours available for the new car – Blueberry Tea, Iridescent White, Light Gold, Metal Grey, Solid Red, Solid White and Tranquility Black. You can book the car for a RM500 booking fee.
Prices:
Proton New Sedan 1.6 HL (M) AT – RM 55,800.00
Proton New Sedan 1.6 ML (M) AT – RM 52,800.00
Proton New Sedan 1.6 ML (M) MT – RM 49,800.00
Proton New Sedan 1.6 BL (M) AT – RM 48,800.00
Proton New Sedan 1.6 BL (M) MT – RM 45,800.00
Proton New Sedan 1.6 BL (S) AT – RM 48,350.00
Proton New Sedan 1.6 BL (S) MT – RM 45,350.00
(M) – Metallic Paint, (S) – Solid Paint
Model range:
BL – 4 power windows, CD player and basic features.
ML – all BL features with additional alloy rims, foldable rear seats, MP3 player and electric door mirror.
HL – all ML features with additional dual airbags, ABS, EBD and standard Captor alarm.
All variants of the car will include an extended warranty package which provides warranty support and coverage for up to five years. The financing package for this car carries an interest rate of 4.1%. Delivery time from booking is approximately 4 to 6 weeks, and status of delivery lead-time will be communicated regularly.
The teaser page now has a preview of each model’s specifications and a simple FAQ. The FAQ states that the booking fee is transferable to another Proton car if the car has not been delivered yet. It also pegs the official launch date at 15th August 2007, so we’ll just have to wonder what the name of this new car will be until then. But everything seems to indicate it will not be called a GEN2 Sedan.
All of the information on this page are collected from Proton Edar’s teaser page and booking page for the new Proton Sedan.
Looking to sell your car? Sell it with Carro.
Let’s wait and see
Basic – rear drum brake
1.6MT Solid —– 45,350
1.6AT Solid —– 48,350
1.6MT Metallic — 45,800
1.6AT Metallic — 48,800
Medium – airbag, rear disc brake,foldable RR seat, fog lamp,mp3, rear spoiler
1.6MT Metallic — 49,800
1.6AT Metallic — 52,800
High – Captor, airbag, abs, mp3, rear disc brake,foldable seat, fog lamp, safetint, rear spoiler
1.6AT Metallic — 55,800
All inclusive insurance, EWP, first aid kit, safety triangle
^o^
hmm……..the price seems a choice to buy apart from the wira.
of course rear head room did increase, because its proper sedan,
if we look back the previous fastback g2 or the previous satria differ from its wira,satria roof is slightly lower and front wind screen is raked more,
-so its kind of normal practice when sporty look takes priority,
even the previous vw passat/skoda even the sedan have a the rear cabin in the manner of a fastback rear windscreen, and some other make as for example to mention,
is proton ever plan to put wira to retirement?? too long of life-span.. same to proton iswara/ saga too
At last they come out with new model..sedan replacing old wira..all the best Proton !!
can’t wait to go check it out!!!
dis ganti wira?????
hihihi…:P
So is this the Gen2 sedan that we have all been seeing all the time in heavy diguise?
Nothing new really, I hope they save themselves from further embarasment by introducing the CPS this time.
gen2 sedan will not come out with cps lar already told many time..
wow! attractive price. hopefully with less problems.
Looking at the price range, My Vi will die slowly. Which one do you choose? Affordable sedan with bigger space, new interior, latest development or a model that going to be phase out in Japan soon?
on sale at last.
and where is another model. i heard they said will introduce 2 new models late this year.
well, this sedan has almost the exact same interior as the current Gen.2 hatch. juz the change of colours only. that’s all. i don’t think it should be called a new model though. just an extension… as for the other new model, well from the looks of the spyshots, it is probably gonna look quite ugly as the shape of the car is quite ‘squarish’. some sort like the current saga/iswara now. a bit odd i would say. well, let’s wait and see…
for those who want to have a good look at the sedan car in the proton teaser site, just save the picture into ur computer and use a photo editor software and then add more brightness/gamma and reduce the contrast, then u wud b able to see it clearer
dfs3000my said,
July 20, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
well, this sedan has almost the exact same interior as the current Gen.2 hatch. juz the change of colours only. that’s all.
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Wake up! Everybody know it is totally different. Not to forget reintroduction of glove box
Yea, from the curve of the picture, it do show the rear head room n leg room sure increased, in fact its so long -.- n the interior if as being told by information, is changed, not just in the form of color. good car i think
just bought a Neo,proton salesman told me front grill is the same,but alot of changes made including engine upgrades,lets wait
Why more expensive the wira? I heard that wira only selling RM38 for the 1.5L (M) sedan!?! The basic should be more cheaper then WIRA man! Since u already got so much spare part which is same with Gen.2! While u claim ur Savvy parts can reduce 30%, why not others?!? WTF! REALLY FISHY!
I mean RM38K sorry..
gen 2 sedan ?
Nice to hear about it. However, does it come with 1.3L engine? By the way, for the basic (base line variant) 1.6L, does it equip with single airbag?
Well, LittleFire85, Wira is a very old model with old technology, much lower quality steel etc. What we hope that this so called Proton Gen.2 Sedan will come with good quality material such as plastic used for the cabin, fit and finish, good mechanism etc. For the full specifications, we have to wait until the launch of this model.
All the best to Proton. Just want you to do better. By the way, tomorrow I’m going to test drive the Nissan Latio. Anyone tested it?
Happy motoring
Can’t wait for it to launch. Indeed, this model is from the new management. Good luck. Is it called the Proton Persona??? :)
Another low price and badly build car? Let’s see…
Proton is one hell of a company run by stupid people. How can you book a car without knowing the specs and even looking at it and put RM500 into it and don’t exactly know how it looks like. The interior. Who the hell would book? Show people how it looks like, the specs and then book. Would you put a downpayment of RM500 you don’t even know what you may buy? This is just a easy way to earn your RM500. So short sighted.
volvolover, thousands of ‘stupid’ people booked the myvi and viva without knowing how it looked like or what the specs were as well. any comments on that?
volvolover said,
July 20, 2007 @ 8:55 pm
Proton is one hell of a company run by stupid people. How can you book a car without knowing the specs and even looking at it and put RM500 into it and don’t exactly know how it looks like. The interior. Who the hell would book? Show people how it looks like, the specs and then book. Would you put a downpayment of RM500 you don’t even know what you may buy? This is just a easy way to earn your RM500. So short sighted.
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BanyakMasukWorkshop said,
July 20, 2007 @ 8:58 pm
volvolover, thousands of ’stupid’ people booked the myvi and viva without knowing how it looked like or what the specs were as well. any comments on that?
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i second that!
thecrash said,
July 20, 2007 @ 5:00 pm
“Basic – rear drum brake
1.6MT Solid —– 45,350
1.6AT Solid —– 48,350
1.6MT Metallic — 45,800
1.6AT Metallic — 48,800”
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thecrash, Basic version comes with rear drum brake??! Its a 1.6 litre car, need more stopping power. Rear drum brake not sufficient, i guess. Sorry, just my opinion. Correct me if i’m wrong. Btw, is it powered by CPS + VIM?
not to mention cheaper cars that ppl book before without knowing much….even the S-class that paul blogged recently…..ppl book without even knowing spec and price too….thats 600k per car were talkin about….
this is malaysia for u…..wanna be 1st to drive when its out? book 1 1st….talk later lol
hahaha that is the example of blind bash..hahaha pasal booking pon bleh jd bahan..
i’ve detail on that. but dont want to put here coz u can see it tomorrow. for rear drum brake on 1.6 car, i think its enough ready. The engineer have calculate everything, if not, this car could not passed JPJ technical test.
hemmmm…the price is attractive. the shadow also not bad. boleh buka lampu kah?;) cannot see la.the nose look too long.
well… it’s a MERCEDES S-Class.. so undoubtly, the quality is there. This is a PROTON we’re talking about. Perodua has done well because of TOYOTA. Proton has been ripping our money off along with the government (proton pays huge taxes) all this while since it opened. 200% tax for cars? considering that our nation extracts petroleum and rich with natural raw materials? Proton was the brainchild of a man who wanted to use it solely for the purpose of increasing his pocket as a company.. not to improve the living of the rakyat.
Proton is not a car manufacturer but subject of political abuse. If they made better cars, better designs (look at gen-2 wtf) longer lasting spare parts, improve safety and their metal (like milo tin man) then we would have nothing to say..
look nice…
may be i can buy this instead of nissan latio
thecrash said,
July 20, 2007 @ 9:14 pm
For rear drum brake on 1.6 car, i think its enough ready. The engineer have calculate everything, if not, this car could not passed JPJ technical test.
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Ok, u’re rite on that subject. Thanks. Hehe… its powered by CPS rite??? heheheheheheheheh.
is the engine still campro?oh my…
I don’t know about other people but for me, I would’nt even put a RM50 downpayment if I do not know how the car looks like. Hey, we are talking about a car here …………………..
I just hope with this model they will move on and stop selling wira once and for all
Anywayz did anyone tell me that the CAMPRO using in this sedan is no CPS n VIM?!? Drive-by-wire is already an old technology, and the old campro is just a normal DOHC engine! Even 4G92 DOHC is more better then it! So Gen.2 also consider as old model, already 3-4 years in market. Most car manufacturer develops replacement after 5 years, only in P1 think that P1 Waja still new?!? u dont know the reality.. If P1 want to replace wira, they should at the same price with more better feature, not adding more $$$ to earn into their pocket?!? Even the new subaru 08′ Is cheaper then the old 07′ Subaru WRX about US$1k with more better feature. Why us have to more expensive? U tot all malaysian is rich meh? Who dont want to own a Gen.2 sedan at RM38k? I bet it will sell more then Myvi is price the same with the Wira.. 1 more, why the first batch of SAGA can sell at RM18k during 80′? U think of ur self. last time need pay royalty, now use own engine.. Should me more cheaper if u think man! 1 word, still expensive!
read the website below and c ur eyes. New subaru sell cheaper then the previous model!
http://www.thetorquereport.com/2007/07/2008_subaru_impreza_will_start.html
Huh, RM 500 booking without looking at the car, want to copy P1 marketing strategy! Must be joking, P2 have world class Toyota behind it, that create a wave of “urgency” to buy!
What crap do P1 have behind, back by cronies vendors supplied crap low quality component? Ha, ha, ha, ………. copy P2 marketing strategy blindly! Any “urgency”???????????????????????
For sure, when the car is available for viewing, there are “gullible & curious” visitors to P1 showroom and the “rumble” is begin – bang the door hardest possible to see if it will fall down, “see-see-&-look-look” how the quality build – the gap, the plasticky dashboard, etc.
those colour scheme used are quite good not cheap paint. Really makes sense to go for the high line version… What is safeftint? Something like vcool?
See see first, wait people bought the car, reviewed the car after certain years, then decide whether it is good buy. Sorry for proton, I have to very careful if I want to buy your car…but mostly I will not buy proton, kind of lost my confident after the waja problem…
Hmm, it’ll be interesting to see if there are any takers for the RM500 downpayment.
Protons quality is on the up trend. Time will tell how far it goes.
to volvolover,
u are right….brand is taken into consideration as well…..since u mentioned internet….we saw whats its like as well isnt it? especially when with paul’s informative posting… a gen 2 sedan….thats what we call it for now.
the only thing we do not much information would be the interior shots. exterior we can guess pretty much what it looks like with the spyshots and im sure those pics are also circulating round especially our local forums.
Sheesh, what does subaru have anything with this topic? It’s a RM61000 car (Off the road… OTR price with GST and rego will probably make it around RM80k). It’s a different size/class car too. So yeah, they cut RM3600 off the price from the old model…it’s no big deal.
Some readers also seem to have supernatural clairvoyance. They seem to be able to predict the future.
I’ve said this before: RM45800 is very reasonable for a small sedan by any standard in any country. An imported sedan of a similar size/class (eg. Tiida) would be about RM65-75k even WITHOUT NAP. ProtonHater, get your facts straight. Note that most online prices are not OTR. and note the price of the gen2 is only RM36k off the road (non-incl gst, rego etc.).
Huh, huh, P1 “new” models famous for 1001 defects for first batch! Any new model come out, better waite and see, let other buy it first and waite for the feedback. Let the P1 tech guy fix any shortcoming then only die hard protonian go and buy the model. This is the most an adivce can be given to them if they intend to buy any new model from P1.
to protonhater,
yes mercedes u call it….but its 600k….sane enuf to buy something with that money without knowing what it is? i dont know how crazy it is but those dudes really have the money. even if i have that amount….at least i need to know what i’m buying.
its quite true that proton’s brand is sour comparing to others but then, its always an option for buyers who want a 1st hand delivery of their cars……some ppl still trust proton till today, maybe they are lucky that their previous protons serve them well.
i dont see why there arent any takers for 500 downpayment…still the cheapest 1.6 car around at 45k+. just how many is the question.
most ppl actually still adopt the wait and see method before booking anyway…except for the case of avanza and myvi where booking 1st gave an advantage of queue becoz after that…its a hell long wait…
RM18K in 80′? What u get with RM10 on that years? Even 10cent can get 5pcs sweets in 80′. Now, what u get with RM10? P1 spend much in r&d compare to P2 (just do cosmetic change). With that price, i think should be ok.
Well.. I guess it is something to look forward too for Proton takes like ages to launch something new, but then again, its just the Gen2 given a proper behind. What new stuff can you expect? You get the familiar gen2 design cues, interior design.. Sorry, but thats just not good enough. Why would it take YEARS to just turn the gen2 into a sedan?
ezralimm said,
So yeah, they cut RM3600 off the price from the old model…it’s no big deal. (anywayz is the new model that off RM3600 not old model! With more features! Read the website!)
Yeah! Proton replacement Wira model aka Gen.2 sedan:
1.5L (m) sedan RM38k compare Basic gen.2 sedan – rear drum brake 1.6MT Solid —– RM45,350 = RM7000 (US 2k) difference, not reduce or same price but add almost 7k -.-! Well no big deal?!? Even u add to 1.6L campro engine, u no need pay royalty to Mitsu, own design car. In Reality, It should be cheaper then WIRA! Coz no need pay more to mitsu! Why more expensive? I tot 90% made in Malaysia, must more cheaper, no need import parts from japan?!?
Ask those cronies n supplier! !@#$! To me that Gen.2 sedan basic should be selling at RM40k and the M-Line should be selling at RM45k! While H-line at RM50k! That more like it! you think we average workers in Malaysia so rich?!? Even RM50k, loan 9 years + interest also need RM500 a month! How about fuel + maintenance?!? About RM1k invest on that car monthly!!! Another RM1-2k into pocket of sons or wife.. Emergency?!? Die loo.. no money to support both ur mouth n family.. Think of your financial status before buying a new expensive car!
80′ RM18k get Saga,
in 90′ Saga RM35k,
in 07′ NEW SAGA WIF FACELIFT RM26.999!
Well in 07′ does 10 cent still get well 3 or 4 sweets? (compare to 80′ 5 sweets?) Do your homework before u post it!
For the aging model, for sure the price will dropped esp when the model will be discontinued. In 2001, my wira 1.3 aeroback manual cost me RM46K. And today with RM46K i can get 1.6 MT sedan car.
Yup with 10cent can get sweet but the size not same as 80′. Petrol also in 90′ only 1.20 and now 1.90.
DESTINED TO GO PLACES.
(mostly workshops)
hee hee
Seriously though, not much to talk about until its fully unveiled. Just another ridiculous teaser campaign for an economy car. (Hi Viva)
It’s amazing how much judgments have been passed out by armchair experts who have yet to take a look let alone drive the new sedan…
And we’ve tried our best to make the quality the best that we have so far…. We sincerely hope no more of those wait-for-the-first-batch-problems-to-be-solved scenario…
LittleFire85,
in 1980’s everything were much cheaper..how much were petrol back then??rm 1 per liter..now rm 1.92 so almost double..what i m trying to say is if petrol price is almost double so the plastic price should be almost double..car interior mostly plastic…so the interior of gen2 sedan should be double the price..engine..fuel injector,drive by wire..extra valve and much complicated design..gearbox much more modern metal triple the price of 1980’s so engine should be triple the price of saga’s engine!!tyres…in 1980’s around rm 60 u can get 1 already..now rm 150..so 2and a half time more…saga had normal cassette player..tis one with mp3 player and almost triple there price…metal ofr body work also almost triple the price compared ton 1980 so all add together u times 2.5 la to make things simple…18k times 2.5 equals to 45 k…same as baseline gen2 sedan…so it the same price man!!!dont complain cause i got a bonus…15 inch rim..and 100 cc more plus more aerodynamic body design plus lotus handling…so its a bargain…how??my maths did satisfy you??if still expensive dont buy la..haha…but dont simply influence others!!
yah after all the issue going on with proton no one would wanna book it before looking at it and have a feel of the interior..but those who think its a good price and u were happy with gen2 it wouldnt be a bad idea to book 1st!!
the engine has no cps but proton engineers have smoothen the torque curve and gearbox have been tuned as well…they mostly improve the ignition system and slighty modified the intake ports..wic later would be suitable for VIM and cps!!but since cps is already ready why not launch it together with the new model??why delaying it again??
proton have all the rights to call it a new model…even facelifted cars are being called new model so wat wrong calling it a new model…continuing wira is not a sin…because people still buy them..saab 9-5 has been facelifted several time and the latest facelift was so much that magazine writers was not aware that the chassis was designed and built in 1990’s…but it is a old car wic is still being produce..because there is demand and buliding a new platform is not within a budget so facelifting it not a wrong thing to do…but proton have been doing it a little bit to often..and too long…stop the wira sell this car…dont creat competition within their own product!!!
hope this car will change proton forever!!my fren who bought a satria neo have been say good things bout it…so hope to hear better things from this new sedan onwer..good job proton for the effort but wait till it really works and people are really satisfied with the quality!!
IMO, it all boils down to the quality that this gen-2 sedan provide us. For me, for 45K if you can get the quality of Nissan Latio or better, than it is a good buy.
And pls do not compare the price in the 80’s and in the 21st century! You have to multiply 18K to the inflation rate from then to now.
the 26K saga?? Pleaseeeee! Have you been in that car? If I still can choose, I still preferred the 36K saga, in many ways much better quality than the current LMST.
And the 38K wira?? How much is the wira when it was first launch? Come on laa guys…! The current wira & iswara prize is the only way that Proton can do to push out the old stock before they can come out with a replacement model…
And lastly, pls reserved your comment after you see by your own eyes this new model. Pls don’t simply bash blindly!
u clowns think perodua is so good. the viva had rain water leaking down the car accelerator & brake pedal during test drives by motoring journalist…my colleagues car too… initial batch problems….dun just talk kok blindly. i think that is even worse than proton….but most viva owners just keep quiet coz malu ….why? coz earlier they said p2 is world class manufacturer. pretending to be so proud of their car even if they got a defect unit.
and for those who think that by closing down p1 you will get to own cheaper imported cars…..just continue to….. dreaaaammm on.
45k for a proper 1.6 sedan is resonably priced compared to some fat, overweight, frog-like, underpowered,cheap body-kitted 1.3 car selling at 53k++ plus super high finance rates. i think most malaysians failed badly in maths.
whatever, RM46k still expensivem, if compare what we earn with our living expense, and the price of the car…(NO WAY). But, what I hate the most is that duty tax on the car, see how much they sell the car in Langkawi, why gov so greedy, can gov only charge us mininum duty tax… why gov cannot attract more FDI, so gov can earn tax through FDI, and charge us less duty tax, and more FDI, more jobs, more people can enjoy sufficient money to spend, less crime rate….and we don’t have good transportation system…
Why, why, why….it is already hard for us to live, what about people without college degree…
We just want the gov reduce the duty tax, at least it eases out our life a little…
guys , too much crap going on…lets jus stick to the topic….regarding the pic above…if its a gen2 sedan , thn i gues it mite look different than the std gen2….the shoulder line is thick wer the std gen2 jus hav a flat side profile….
but i tink its the gen2 sedan bcos the rear and front bumpers are similar! bt nt mch can be seen anyway…nd to wait n see , and again guys plz,STICK TO THE TOPIC!
please stop talking about the price of chicken rice or other stuff here. stick to the topic – discuss the new proton sedan and ONLY the new proton sedan.
But everything seems to indicate it will not be called a GEN2 Sedan.
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Suggestion/guess the name are likely: –
1. BolehStar.
2. LuckyStar
3. AsiaStar?
ProtonEngineer said,
July 21, 2007 @ 1:44 am
And we’ve tried our best to make the quality the best that we have so far…. We sincerely hope no more of those wait-for-the-first-batch-problems-to-be-solved scenario…
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Any publicity stunt the like of the German fat guy with lebih-kurang “Das it perfekt”!
Waja, Gen-2, Savvy and Satria Neo model set that kind of precedent “waite-for-the-first-batch-problems-to-be-solved scenario”! So, since P1 reputation is not there and this perception will exist in some of potential buyers! There will be no scenario of “frenzy booking/buying” we witness like when Wira launched in 1993!
Can the MP3 player plays MP3s from thumb drive? I mean does it have a USB port to connect to?
End of the day, the teaser ad that suppose to “tease” potential customer, it is become the public to “tease” P1 if the product is not meet market expectation in relation to what they advertise!
The catch phrase for Savvy is “built touhgher …….”,
for this Gen-2 Sedan is “destined to go places” – make sure walk the talk, otherwise “destined to go into drains”.
Some outhere say the price is “reasonable” compare to P2 frog’s shape MyVi. If that is the case, see the sales figure can achieve even 50% of the MyVi?
Joe ooi compared to lawn mower 1.0cc super tiny body (RM45k)
no Rnd cost, copy n paste from his brother, protected by gov and managed by Japanese some more..now we understand which car is really over priced
Personally, I don care what p1 has got to offer, if p1 is so good according to many of its diehard fan here (it has now reached episode 4, anyway), why don this bolehland open the car market up by scrapping the nap, whatever barriers to compete, etc.
See if p1 can really compete in this kind of environment, if it does, my sincere salute.
Too much scarce economy resources have been channelled to upkeep this non feasible venture.
saga + waja = saja!
this is a good name.
saja, destined to go places
well…somehow i am still waiting for the improved waja…
for this gen2 sedan…looks ok la….but doesn’t make me wanna buy the car….
looks like everyone waiting for gen2 sedan ….. erm wat put in so dark ?? can c clearly leh ~ …. accept trade in or not … wira 97 ….. price at rm45k … this call P1 mah ~ … how can put the price so high … when it in show room ??
What is TCU??
1.5L (m) sedan RM38k compare Basic gen.2 sedan – rear drum brake 1.6MT Solid —– RM45,350 = RM7000 (US 2k) difference, not reduce or same price but add almost 7k -.-! Well no big deal?!? Even u add to 1.6L campro engine, u no need pay royalty to Mitsu, own design car. In Reality, It should be cheaper then WIRA! Coz no need pay more to mitsu! Why more expensive? I tot 90% made in Malaysia, must more cheaper, no need import parts from japan?!?
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Dewd, the wira was outdated technology. So they had to let it go cheap. This upcoming sedan is current technology with a more updated styling. Btw, it should be more expensive to develop your own platform/engine than to get it off someone else. Eg. Holden still uses Daewoo platforms as it’s cheaper to do so than to manafacture their own.
The Gen2 is a heavier/safer car too if im not mistaken… something like 990kg (wira) vs 1200kg (gen2). Both cars are a generation apart.
i think this is a reasonable price for the car’s production
a smaller sized myvi retails at about the same price, yet you guys dont complain anything about it.
the subaru is now cheaper in the states because of falling yen prices, simple as that, loss in forex, even it is cheaper now in australia cos of that too.
so, you guys, be happy to get this price, even a small lil neo costs about the same. if gen2 drops more price, current gen2 owners will be pissed at their resale value and not able to sell of their cars anymore, which reduces confidence on proton 2nd hand market value
seriously, if you guys complain so much, go get a myvi lar. a 1.3 dvvt engine that punches out 90 hp compared to 1.6 campro that does 110hp, smaller cabin vs bigger cabin, smaller boot vs bigger boot, abs vs abs + ebd, doh
hahaha live in 2007 but 80s minded…yalor think +ve lor.. i oso can say in 40s,50s,60s car price can get 1k or 500…hahahaha..
Now that the sedan is out too, I think it’s high time the Wira retires; it deserves it IMO. The Wira, as normal a car it is, has served Malaysians well, I think it’s best Proton retires it before it reaches the sorry position Sagas are in now, some kind of running joke.
Bbingbong how about u get 1 VW beetle 1965 for me and sell me RM500.. I would like to find that car? (it would be happy for u to sell me, even it already depreciat so long time?) Since u say at that time car is cheap!?? Have u got 1? In the 60s Even a new basic volvo still need over RM30k over!
Anyway did someone say the engine is new? Naa.. Ask the salesman in P1, They confirm is JUST CAMPRO ENGINE! Got CPS OR VIM? Err.. don’t think so.. Interior?!? Almost same with Gen.2, Just back seat more comfortable n more space in the back.. Ohh.. why savvy ads say 30% spare parts went cheaper, but only savvy lite sell cheaps only? Dont know, ask the company, cronies n supplier?!? Even u say tyre is expensive, Battery up value, fuel also up.. But does they up so much? The fuel they pump in your new car just RM5 standard from factory! tyre are depending on size n quality! In 80′ got high performance, low profile trye for u to play?!? Even cheap RM90 tyre can be get from indonesia n china, NEW! All this money thing is set by the company, later if they sell worst i bet they going to come out Sedan lite, cheaper 30%.. !@#!@
It’s totally Gen2 front with bigger boot. For me the base model price is good,eqiuvailent to Wira’s sedan price. This will be a total Wira’s Replacement model.
P/s: No more Wira pic on the Proton’s website gallery. Finally Wira is discarded from production.
–>! So Gen.2 also consider as old model, already 3-4 years in market. Most car manufacturer develops replacement after 5 years, only in P1 think that P1 Waja still new?!? u dont know the reality.. If P1 want to replace wira, they .dude,,you have to understand that each car launcehd comprised of a huge investment of money…up to millions of it…300-400 millions sometimes..sometimes even higher when u tried to build a new platform..for example, waja consumed RM500M ++ of proton capital, whilst savvy is abot RM300M ++,,so, the rule is simple,,in the case of not-so-strong-in-financial our dear proton, they do need to get back all their investment before they can go for another model..meaning that the break even point need to be reached first lah..simple economics anyway,..otherwise you are killing yourself by spending all the capital you have in order to build another model..as you can see and obviuosly know, proton is dying in terms of losing their profits each quarter,,thus i dont think they wanna kill themselves anyway by building a whole new platform..
So, what the car giants always did is by building multipurpose platform..meaning that use the same platform to few model..you can look at toyota where similar platform is utilized for Fortuner and Innova..so same goes to proton, where they are considering this factor by applying/adjusting a similar platform to a new model..thats why you cant see much different in the new model..
anyway, the key points is, “dont kill yourself while you are dying..or else theres no more “.you”. Just look from diffrent perspective next time!!”
–>! So Gen.2 also consider as old model, already 3-4 years in market. Most car manufacturer develops replacement after 5 years, only in P1 think that P1 Waja still new?!? u dont know the reality.. If P1 want to replace wira, they .
___________________________________________________________________________
dude,,you have to understand that each car launcehd comprised of a huge investment of money…up to millions of it…300-400 millions sometimes..sometimes even higher when u tried to build a new platform..for example, waja consumed RM500M ++ of proton capital, whilst savvy is abot RM300M ++,,so, the rule is simple,,in the case of not-so-strong-in-financial our dear proton, they do need to get back all their investment before they can go for another model..meaning that the break even point need to be reached first lah..simple economics anyway,..otherwise you are killing yourself by spending all the capital you have in order to build another model..as you can see and obviuosly know, proton is dying in terms of losing their profits each quarter,,thus i dont think they wanna kill themselves anyway by building a whole new platform..
So, what the car giants always did is by building multipurpose platform..meaning that use the same platform to few model..you can look at toyota where similar platform is utilized for Fortuner and Innova..so same goes to proton, where they are considering this factor by applying/adjusting a similar platform to a new model..thats why you cant see much different in the new model..
anyway, the key points is, “dont kill yourself while you are dying..or else theres no more “.youâ€. Just look from diffrent perspective next time!!â€
What is TCU? Anyway, Proton said that they’ve improved the TCU. So, better torque curve, smoother engine? No more spirtited driving, as claimed by the previous management. hahaha. This is a product from the new management. I’ve a feeling its going to be damn GOOD!! If anybody had a chance to test drive it, please share with us the info.
“But everything seems to indicate it will not be called a GEN2 Sedan.”
_________________________________________________________________________
Some people think that it will be called the ‘Persona’. Just a simple guess. :D However, it could be true. Remember the exported ‘Wira’ for the UK market in the mid 90’s?
Even P1 use so many money invest in that car develops, did it come out more better then others? I can only say that money only masuk to other ppl pocket! That model invest a lot? Sedan, take old gen.2 turn into sedan. Need additional RM500M?!? LOL! That why proton die even fast! Coz those money they invest in the wrong place.. PPL even Peugeot, BMW, Citroen, Renault join venture to cut cost, P1? Tot very rich? Use our ppl money so much to invest for a sedan? That why sometime ppl racism u know how bp works (attitude, greed!).. Money come first, result got! but already wasted a lot on paying to the cronies n supplier! Even BMW, Merc want to join venture with others to built new models.. Huh.. Design savvy, Gen.2 come out with..
http://www.autozine.org/Misc/Award/AutoZine/AutoZine_Awards_08.html
see for ur self! duh! wasting ppl money..
dont be bias la! the car havent come out, u guys already bash kaw kaw.blindly. the features and price does sounds attractive.
I dun understand those pathetic bashers, if u dont like it just say NO once and leave lah. Like me i dont like savvy just say once and leave. theres no point u still browsing this side again. tidak suka tp tiap tiap hari visit juga side ini!BODOH!
i will bash kaw-kaw later after seeing the real car and test drive if it is bad.
For me, i will consider:
1. spaciousness
2. built in quality(gen2 plastic feel interior still there or not? )
3. look(we know already la,its gen2)
4. ride and handling(comfortable or not?)
5. price(already know.attractive)
6. engine performance(not a surprise.CAMPRO. which i don really like it. But they claim it had been improved. i will test drive again.)
7. brand(proton mar.. berani beli or not? proton is my second most not trusted brand.1st is china made. Maybe proton should do something to gain my trust,so to others. i-care is 1 of it)
After all, its ur money. if u don like it no body force u to buy. Ops!im wrong.we all force by NAP to buy proton cars. But life must go on :)
#
ProtonEngineer said,
July 21, 2007 @ 1:44 am
It’s amazing how much judgments have been passed out by armchair experts who have yet to take a look let alone drive the new sedan…
And we’ve tried our best to make the quality the best that we have so far…. We sincerely hope no more of those wait-for-the-first-batch-problems-to-be-solved scenario…
==yes indeed hopefully no problems. my opinion still have to wait, see and listen. is a must, if not, might not be second time fortunate not being wheelchaired or alive by now, to myself & my brother.
P1 main proton side has released the TV ads teaser
http://media.proton.com/public/mm_tvc_newlyborn_eng.php
Anyway did any one know that Waja Manual only sell RM38k in Langkawi…
LittleFire85 said,
July 21, 2007 @ 10:55 am
http://www.autozine.org/Misc/Award/AutoZine/AutoZine_Awards_08.html
see for ur self! duh! wasting ppl money..
——————
Worst Car of the Year – get award for a wrong reason – Gen-2 (2005), Savvy (2006) and Satria Neo (Runner Up) by AutoZine Awards.
This is P1 improvement in term of “Worst Car of the Year”!!!!!!!!!!
But P1 website claimed “CONSUMERS VOTE PROTON AS A READER’S DIGEST TRUSTED BRAND FOR A SECOND YEAR RUNNING”.
http://www.proton.com/about_proton/press/full_details.php?intArticleID=209
“the survey was carried out in seven markets across Asia (Malaysia, Hong Kong, India, Philippines, Singapore, Taiwan, and Thailand) to determine the brands most trusted by consumers in 43 different product and service categories.”
The above statement is the most joking simply because P1 don’t sell car in Hong Kong, India, Philippines and Thailand.
How to let these consumers vote to determine Proton is most trusted brand since they are not and never be the owner of Proton car? It is a shear shame that such crap statement can be appear in P1 official website – wasting rakyat tax payer monies only!
So this Gen-2 Sedan “destined to go places”, let them said as they like, at the end let consumers make the final judgement! Consumers always right!
LittleFire85 said,
July 21, 2007 @ 11:40 am
Anyway did any one know that Waja Manual only sell RM38k in Langkawi…
———————
I can confirm what you said is wrong – Waja 1.6(A) is RM 38K and 1.6(M) is RM 36K.
So there are Protonian up there saying Gen-2 Sedan price is “reasonable” and the cost is RM 36K (must be + vendors cronies mark-up)! When Sedan-2 go on sales at Langkawai, just make a phone call to my friend at Langkawi and see whether this Sedan will be price below RM 36K, if so then that means that wanabe live under NAP illusion taxland Protonian must be joking, or P1 themselve.
Joe Ooi, regarding littlefire85’s posting, i think people who keep mentioning this “Worst Car of the Year – get award for a wrong reason – Gen-2 (2005), Savvy (2006) and Satria Neo (Runner Up) by AutoZine Awards. ” are not well read, and lack knowledge about the topic they’re talking about in the 1st place.
They also have the typical malaysian attitude of believe everything they see, hear from any source without finding out for themselves if there is any truth behind it.
this author of autozine, if you have read about his resume, you will know he is completely talking out of his “backside”.. firstly, he is in hong kong, where personal car ownership has a very very much lower penetration than in malaysia. 2nd, he admits he has no real world experience in the automotive business, 3rdly he has never driven, or even seen a real proton car in his entire life. and some of the people here actually take it as a credible source for automotive information? i think the people who actually take his(autozine author) comments seriously, are as ill-informed about the industry as he is.
unlike paul, He actually does lots of research, and has actually road-tested real cars, and not in his dreams, or evaluating cars while driving his “desk”.
and joe ooi again, i have been following your postings, and you just love to take things out of context.
““the survey was carried out in seven markets across Asia (Malaysia, Hong Kong, India, Philippines, Singapore, Taiwan, and Thailand) to determine the brands most trusted by consumers in 43 different product and service categories.— this is the official published line by readers digest asia, not proton.
it is an independent survey dont without protons involvement.. unless you dont know what that is, its done by readers digest asia with their readers spanning those countries. but in malaysia, we are only told the winners of products from our country, based on results by malaysian readers.. you dont see or read anything about a product from philipines or taiwan do you?
you somehow love to show your intelligence by roughly reading something, forming a quick opinion(though biased), and then openly show everyone that you didnt know what you were talking about in the first place.
BMW, by virtue of your statement, you means we including P1 have to reject the findings of AutoZine and Reder’s Digest? Like to hear your further comments!
Joe, stop spreading rumours about crony/vendor markup. It’s simply not true.
Eg. The gen2 is RM36000 OFF road.
inclusive tax (applied to all cars) is RM44000
inclusive of number plate, registration, misc. it adds up to RM46000
And even at RM46000, it’s still reasonable compared to similar (1200kg class) japanese sedans that would cost about RM70k OTR if NAP DIDNT exist.
Personally think, the price is affordable. Yeah quite attractive.
Look and design, well everybody said it is a Gen2-Sedan so i could pretty figured out how it looks like.
Handling, quality and the rest..well i have no idea ! Anyway it’s Proton certified. SO you judge it by yourself whether it’s reliable or not.
By the way, i don’t like this kind of teaser. It’s just….too dull, unprofessional, lousy marketing strategy and reflects the low self esteem of those who are working at Proton. No confidence on their own product !
Take a look of how among those brilliant aces do some of their teaser:
http://paultan.org/archives/2006/12/07/lexus-teases-us-with-lexus-is-f-rear-end/
And please don’t just look blindly but learn ! Lexus teaser is very simple yet sparks chemistry attraction on people to know more about the product.
Since Proton deemed already disappointed me with their ‘low-class’ teaser, well…good luck to Proton on this new sedan. Again, in terms of pricing i think this new sedan can sells, yet price is not everything dude. So long boy !
ezralimm said,
July 21, 2007 @ 12:15 pm
Joe, stop spreading rumours about crony/vendor markup. It’s simply not true.
Eg. The gen2 is RM36000 OFF road.
inclusive tax (applied to all cars) is RM44000
inclusive of number plate, registration, misc. it adds up to RM46000
And even at RM46000, it’s still reasonable compared to similar (1200kg class) japanese sedans that would cost about RM70k OTR if NAP DIDNT exist.
__________________________________________________
You seem to forget that there’s a reason why Jap sedans are selling so expensive here. If the NAP was really National Automobile Policy and not National Automaker Policy, then there won’t be a RM46k national car, but there would be tons of RM40-50k Civics, Altis and RM80-RM90k Camry and Accords.
p.s. Hmm since Jap cars were more safe, can I make an assumption that our G wants us to: “Pay more tax, or die!” LoL
Yeah, sorry joe ooi. Yup 1.6 (A) waja is RM38k.. Anywayz BanyakMasukWorkshop i think ur name resemble some car brand that Banyak Masuk Workshop in Malaysia.. Every work shop sure see the car 1.. Even the technition say: “if Proton die, they die also..” Why? Can earn a lot by repairing it, LOL!
hahahaha, that’s the perspective i was trying to correct.
RM40k for a Civic? ROTFLMAO. Wont happen. Not in Malaysia, not in the States, not in Australia, not in Free Trade Zones with ZERO tax. I will be more like RM70k OTR.
To repeat:
And even at RM46000, it’s still reasonable compared to similar (1200kg class) japanese sedans that would cost about RM70k OTR if NAP/Proton __DID_NOT_EXIST__.
Anywayz yesterday my father met his friend just came back from London from finishing his master in the Uni of Newcastle.. Do u know the the C-class C200 compressor 99′ only left 5K pound! 5kX7=RM3500! He and his wife both bought 2 cars back, 1 C-class n 1 E-class 98′ E240 (also around 5-6k pound). Using student as a reason back, MITI allow them to import back to malaysia in a condition that they cannot sell the car within 5 years.. Well RM10k get 2 merc back from London.. Even the transport fee cost less then RM1k.. + JPJ register around RM1k also.. RM12k for 2 merc driving in Malaysia.. Lucky bastard! I also want to study in UK!
hey “King”
i like your comment…
>
Price below 35-38K can charge with higher interest rate are understadable….but if you choose that high spec fatt butt & they charge same interest rate…..sure we rugi lots…..
sorry i mean 500 pound! LOL! But i think maybe they cheat the real car price.. coz they say in UK u can register the car under the price.. Coz both the cars are sell by their friends to them.. Anywayz i just found out that car near to 10 years in UK are cheap, and can consider to be scrap..
Opps sorry, but i don’t know. Perhaps in Malaysia price is everything..
If that so, it seems that Proton set the strategy right on this model since its other counterparts are selling with damn higher price (Of course by force). And the only competitor within the price range is its own brother, Perodua even the two cater for different class and segment.
So that’s good….healthy for Malaysian economy development. Sigh…
i’ve been following the blog and the comments for a long time and one thing I dont like is I dont like these two people – joe ooi and mycar_stolen, they are just a basher and if you give them the job to fix they would mess it up(no action talk only)
oh my… what an ugly car
i’ve gonna say this once more….bashing brings no good….
keep it cool y’all…..
we dont wanna a greatd day turns 2 gloomy aint it?
to everyone…. the 1st thing we have to check when the car launch is the door!! make sure it can open and close neatly.
second is the boot. make sure we can open the boot from the outside!!
third is the bra shape speedometer casing!! i don’t like the design… distractful when driving!!
fourth is the interior plastic color and quality… make sure is it soft and elegantly build!!
fifth is the seat… i do not want cheap fabric like the old savvy..
sixth will be the leg room…. if it is bigger than myvi, it will be great!! and if the door can also open up to 90 degree… isn’t that superd !!
seventh is the overall design… at least 70 % cannot be the same as current Gen.2. else, this car keep remind us of the failed Gen.2 and it will impact on the car resale value!!
…. kindly add it to the wish list of the New Proton sedan car.. and see how far it gets during launch time…
Proton New Sedan 1.6 BL (M) AT – RM 48,800.00
Hmmm….the price seems reasonable and it’s within my budget, perhaps its time for me to trade-in my Wira 1.5A for the Proton New Sedan.
why cant I have a High-line manual? thats so freakin unfair! so i have to choose, get a “kosong” manual,or a high-line Auto…
weird rite? at least offer with single airbag & ABS minus EBD also good enuff…
stop bashing la people..give them support..
if u dont like proton car..then dont buy their car..stop driving their car..its not about quality or expensive..give them a try..
heehe..play Car Tycoon game..then u know how hard to earn money to build a car..
just to add… I can get Neo/Gen2/Myvi/Viva Manual tranny with Airbag & ABS… so why not this model too???!!
dun be AFFECTED with bashers point of view…….ur’s is good enuf….
hazremi :
im with u buddy , all thy do is mess up the whole forum..all thy do is copy paste ppls comment n comment on it….gees…sickening already…
tec96248,
i am just trying to prove a point that when p1 launches a new model, ppl bash n condemn blindly say 1st batch surely got problems. of course i know all other manufacturers have some initial probs too. but when p2 got new model….you morons go rush like frenzy n buy n later got problems just keep quiet. if u don’t understand wat i am saying thats just too bad for your puny brain and i would not like to waste time talking to a moron like you. nobody was talking to you in the 1st place.
this model no info is out yet on the spec and has anyone actually seen the car inside out? so stop bashing blindly. go test drive the car 1st later on.
tec96248 said,
compared with different segment of cars? why u had to critized malaysia? malaysia or their cars kill ur parents? family or members?
isn’t this new car priced in the same category as myvi? you never went to school? wat does if gotta do wif my family? pathetic fool.
there is an old saying: If you keep your mouth shut, nobody will know that you are stupid.
model not out yet and somebody starts bashing,..get a hobby or something please..want a first class car but mentality still third class..sorry ,hope gen 2 sedan will do well…satria neo is already a major improvement,good handling,sticks to the road at corners, can accelarate to 170km/h with ease and still stable,so might be similar to new gen2…sceptical about campro engines at first,i was wrong, good enough to do the job actually..
ezralimm said,
July 21, 2007 @ 12:15 pm
Joe, stop spreading rumours about crony/vendor markup. It’s simply not true.
Eg. The gen2 is RM36000 OFF road.
inclusive tax (applied to all cars) is RM44000
inclusive of number plate, registration, misc. it adds up to RM46000
And even at RM46000, it’s still reasonable compared to similar (1200kg class) japanese sedans that would cost about RM70k OTR if NAP DIDNT exist.
——————-
OK if there is no cronies markup at RM 36K, means Gen-2 don’t achieve economies of scale.
U want to know how much it cost for Kia Picanto? Last time I got a friend working with NAZA, he is incharge of financial part, and informed me the LC price (purchase at Factory in Korea) for Kia Picanto is merely RM 7,200. This car is at a same pricing for OTR with Gen-2 Sedan. You just figure out, P1 don’t have economies of scale or cronies sucking or both! You want to live in crap-triotic illusion delusion utopia car-tax-land, let it be!
Don’t treat that NAP/P1 is heaven-send-god-create-auto that we have to “worship” NAP/P1 with our hard earn RM $$$$$$$!
Wish list of Gen-2 Sedan is see-first-let-other-buy-if-OK-then-decide-to-buy!
Perodua – 13,177 (Jan ~ May = 58,652)
Proton – 7,609 (Jan ~ May = 38,050)
Perodua Viva – 3,951, of which 49% were 1.0
Perodua Myvi – 7,264
Proton Savvy – 226
Proton Iswara (incl aeroback) – 4,432
tough luck
hahaha, RM7000 for a Kia Picanto?
A mid range 1.0L Picanto in the UK is about RM44,000 (6200 GBP) On The Road.
Are you trying to be funny?
OK if there is no cronies markup at RM 36K, means Gen-2 don’t achieve economies of scale.
___________________________________________________________
I dont understand what you’re saying. RM36k –> RM45k is due to NORMAL TAXES (faced by all cars). It has nothing to do with economy of scale. It has nothing to do with cronies and whatnot. And it has nothing to do with the NAP. As mentioned before, RM45k is cheap for a 1200kg sedan with or without the NAP.
now everyone is an expert, same like politician in the parliament…don’t like u can buy something else,got money can buy 5 series bmw but with tight budget..u decide yourself…bashers are just doing what they do best…
It’s a good move by P1, looking foward to test drive it , if things go well, will probably replace my old iswara with this one…
come on.. wait till the car come out, then u can bash your heart out lah. how come u say it ugly before u actually see it?
ezralimm said,
Dewd, the wira was outdated technology. So they had to let it go cheap. This upcoming sedan is current technology with a more updated styling. Btw, it should be more expensive to develop your own platform/engine than to get it off someone else. Eg. Holden still uses Daewoo platforms as it’s cheaper to do so than to manafacture their own.
The Gen2 is a heavier/safer car too if im not mistaken… something like 990kg (wira) vs 1200kg (gen2). Both cars are a generation apart.
_________________________________________________________
Current technology my $$$
ezralimm said,
The Gen2 is a heavier/safer car too if im not mistaken… something like 990kg (wira) vs 1200kg (gen2). Both cars are a generation apart.
_________________________________________________________
Heaver doesn’t always mean safer.
nizam80 said,
What is TCU? Anyway, Proton said that they’ve improved the TCU. So, better torque curve, smoother engine? No more spirtited driving, as claimed by the previous management. hahaha. This is a product from the new management. I’ve a feeling its going to be damn GOOD!! If anybody had a chance to test drive it, please share with us the info.
___________________________________________________
Anyone have CamPro Torque-Power Graph?
there are supporter, protonian and also rakyat!
WE, RAKYAT ought to have the right to own a proper car in terms of affordability, quality and safety!
Good to see another new product coming… lets keep our finger crossed!
MyBoy, I was trying to explain why it’s a lil more expensive than the previous Wira it replaces. Hence the weight comparison. Someone suggested it should be cheaper than the wira.
And in the event of an accident, id rather be in a recent 1200kg car than a 990kg car of yesteryear’s design.
Read threads further up for more details.
Driven2020 said,
July 21, 2007 @ 5:19 pm
Perodua – 13,177 (Jan ~ May = 58,652)
Proton – 7,609 (Jan ~ May = 38,050)
Perodua Viva – 3,951, of which 49% were 1.0
Perodua Myvi – 7,264
Proton Savvy – 226
Proton Iswara (incl aeroback) – 4,432
tough luck
===================
This is in Malaysia sales figure..
u forgot u include Global market figure
prrrfthh Juara Kampung
#
MyBoy said,
July 21, 2007 @ 8:18 pm
Anyone have CamPro Torque-Power Graph?
___________________________________________________
Which one? the cAMpRO or CamPro? :P
they only graph as far as i know is here
http://www.proton.com/innovation/rnd/campro.php
plus you might see the info there not consistent. top part talks about the cps+vim then gives the tech spec for non cps+vim then afterwards gives the comparison between a non cps+vim with a cps+vim. aiya so confusing @_@
if they have the dyno data for the cps+vim, why post the non cps+vim tech spec? as if the graph was “made” hahaha
sales figure for May 07 for gen2+waja combined est 2951 units. Can the new gen2 with a longer a$$ change the tide? stay tuned
peYno,
do u have the foreign sales figures? i dunno where to get lerr lolz. macam looking for area 51 hehe
driven2020, do u know the reason proton can still survive eventho sales figure not good??
protection?? no
becoz u diddnt count proton Global sales figure lorr..
u think they sell car ti 3rd world country like malaysia only ka
prrrfthhh
Driven2020
to be professional basher.. u shud study and do research more..
i did it when i was a proton basher 5 years ago
protection? get a condom and hide under the bus stop. that’ll what a blonde would do lolz. juz joking.
well the sales numbers are indeed for local shores ma, not relating poor sales & help from the G.
If u got the foreign numbers can paste here then compare oso can gua. so far for june din come across any numbers yet
hey what does prrrfthhh sound like? macam tongue twister hehe
hyundai said,
July 20, 2007 @ 8:50 pm
Another low price and badly build car? Let’s see…
———————–
i tot we only hv japanese wanabe
korean wanabe oso got a
prrrfthhh
no more TUV certification?
5 year warranty is quite good, take loan, use 5 years sell
ezralimm said,
MyBoy, I was trying to explain why it’s a lil more expensive than the previous Wira it replaces. Hence the weight comparison. Someone suggested it should be cheaper than the wira.
And in the event of an accident, id rather be in a recent 1200kg car than a 990kg car of yesteryear’s design.
Read threads further up for more details.
_________________________________________________
Okay, understood. Thanks bro for explaining it to us all.
Driven2020 said,
July 21, 2007 @ 9:44 pm
protection? get a condom and hide under the bus stop. that’ll what a blonde would do lolz. juz joking.
[[——————————
u get this figure from Bro Chips aa
hat bro chips compare P1 and P2 becoz he thinks P2 oso “National car ” like P1 prrrfthh
How come Jthis apanese car assemble can be compared to Local made malaysia
coz in Mlaysia most of them r Japanese Wanabe
this car got DVVT and door open 90deg??
otherwise i wont buy..
no Japanese touch.. means no good
Driven2020 said,
Which one? the cAMpRO or CamPro? :P
they only graph as far as i know is here
http://www.proton.com/innovation/rnd/campro.php
plus you might see the info there not consistent. top part talks about the cps+vim then gives the tech spec for non cps+vim then afterwards gives the comparison between a non cps+vim with a cps+vim. aiya so confusing @_@
if they have the dyno data for the cps+vim, why post the non cps+vim tech spec? as if the graph was “made†hahaha
sales figure for May 07 for gen2+waja combined est 2951 units. Can the new gen2 with a longer a$$ change the tide? stay tuned
_________________________________________
Graph for both…..Thanks anyway.
so funny :)
a pro basher…haha! makes me laugh…..
actuallt those proton bashers really make me laugh la
becoz i know their mentallity as i used to be like them too.
they shud learn from me
peYno-1 said,
July 21, 2007 @ 9:52 pm
“this car got DVVT and door open 90deg??
otherwise i wont buy..”
___________________________________________________
Anyway, what’s with Perodua? 90 degree opening doors…
Macam pintu rumah la…
Same thing here. HONESTLY, i used to be a basher too. Back in those hot-selling-wira-days, and those stupid-arrogant-protonsalesmen-days.
nizam80 said,
July 21, 2007 @ 10:20 pm
_________________________________________________________________
Anyway, what’s with Perodua? 90 degree opening doors…
Macam pintu rumah la…
================
perodua makes Japanese car mehh.. sure good wan..can put a cow and J lo and rafidah’s butts size into it
if proton does it.. sure not good one.. Local mehhh
nizam80 said,
July 21, 2007 @ 10:23 pm
Same thing here. HONESTLY, i used to be a basher too. Back in those hot-selling-wira-days, and those stupid-arrogant-protonsalesmen-days
————————————————————-
kewl, obviosly we r not narrow minded ppl
if proton produces good car.. we praise, if proton produces bad car we hantam..
In this case, its a bad car.
This new Sedan if based on previous blog, the design is not much different except extended butt, so the response form public will be equally luke warm as well!
Any Arena Replacement Model (ARM), maybe cannibalize Waja backside open wide just like Wira!
Sedan 1.6 HL (M) AT – 55,800.00?
It’s way too expensive, just bcos u r too inefficient u have to price at this level, of coz the nonsensical nap is instrumental too.
It should be about 35,000+. A big rip-off and yet many of us here r willing to give this inefficient car maker a chance to continue to suck our money and deprive us of owning a car at a fair value…come on..grow up
peYno-1 said,
July 21, 2007 @ 9:52 pm
this car got DVVT and door open 90deg??
otherwise i wont buy..
no Japanese touch.. means no good
————————————————————-
I dont want Japanese’s touch! I want EUROPEAN TOUCH! With 5 star EURONcap safety figure, and a Euro4 Petrol n diesel engine running inside a P1 car.. I want a twin charge 1.4L TSI engine in it! That roadtax, FC and performance sure save more then that louzy 1.6L old campro engine! Afterall, they have six speed auto n manual to play compare to P1, old 5-speed manual, AMT or 4-speed auto! Anywayz Japanese only good in engine technology, but not safety.. Volvo mucks!
NeedGoodCar, this is how protonian justify the price for RM 46K is reasonable.
1. The cost of Gen-2 Sedan i sRM 36K + profits (claim no marked up for cronies) + other admin cost, etc = RM 46K is reasonable????????? When reasonng to him there is cronies’s mark-up and/or no economies of scale, he is “ignorant”.
2. When I mentioned my friend work at NAZA incharge of financial part for purchase Kia Picanto from Korean factory (minus logisitic, NAP tax, distributor profits, etc) at LC RM 7,200 (factoryu price), he is laughing!…….WTF and what happen to him I don’t understand???? Kia Picanto achiieve economies of scale and produce in the most cost efficient manner!
Even Chery 160A high specs sold in China at around RM 28K. Your suggestion that the selling price at about RM 35K already “generous”!Just imaging RM 7K x 500 K units, make extra RM 3,500 millions. But our poor P1 sold at RM 46K, most likely still make lost, where is all rakyat monies gone??????
#
MyBoy said,
July 21, 2007 @ 11:20 pm
In this case, its a bad car.
__________________________________________________________
Walau eh… Yet another blog reader with the ESP (extra special powers) of clairvoyance. Can predict the future wan…
*respect*
Sheesh Joe, for the love of god, could ya pls explain this “cronies mark up” theory of yours?
the RM36k to RM45k explanation i gave is based on govt figures. The RM9k difference goes to LHDN, to __THE GOVERNMENT__. It’s considered tax. The same way 5% of the price you pay for a big mac goes to the government (GST). Of course, some people are going to say that there is a McDonald’s crony mark up. w00t.
And i hold my ground on this, I urge readers of this blog post/thread to research the foreign prices of cars before passing judgment. Note the OTR costs of 1200kg class sedans in other countries. (net prices are seldom OTR. so do read up abit and ask around in forums)
RM46k for a 1200kg class sedan is very reasonable by any standard in any country.
As for the RM7200 for a Kia Picanto, … Chinaman say: Your “sauce” not tasty enough.
I wonder how much a Kia Picanto (Kia MOrning) is selling OTR in korea… If it goes for about RM25k (hypothetically)…. the the Korean govt also got “crony markup” according to Joe’s kinda reasoning.
I think the RM7200 is the basic material of the kia picanto.. Anywayz we all want to earn right? We have to pay that G tax money, suppliers, cronies, jpj officer, bla bla bla.. from RM7200 add until near RM40k.. Well, the world is like this.. If not earn more today, maybe tomorrow u will bangkrap?
Sample like ais kacang, the material of ais kacang is simple, ais, kacang, jelly, aic cream, etc. I think the basic of ais kacang a bowl is just RM1, but they can sell us at RM3 for 1.. So in conclusion is that, Everyone most survive by earning more.. but if earn too much to the wrong hands is bad to all of us.. especially someone who uses our tax money to help the company but still want us to pay more for their car.. a bit unfair izzit? like paying 2 times more then normal..
ezralimm said,
Sheesh Joe, for the love of god, could ya pls explain this “cronies mark up†theory of yours?
the RM36k to RM45k explanation i gave is based on govt figures. The RM9k difference goes to LHDN, to __THE GOVERNMENT__. It’s considered tax. The same way 5% of the price you pay for a big mac goes to the government (GST). Of course, some people are going to say that there is a McDonald’s crony mark up. w00t.
And i hold my ground on this, I urge readers of this blog post/thread to research the foreign prices of cars before passing judgment. Note the OTR costs of 1200kg class sedans in other countries. (net prices are seldom OTR. so do read up abit and ask around in forums)
RM46k for a 1200kg class sedan is very reasonable by any standard in any country.
As for the RM7200 for a Kia Picanto, … Chinaman say: Your “sauce†not tasty enough.
I wonder how much a Kia Picanto (Kia MOrning) is selling OTR in korea… If it goes for about RM25k (hypothetically)…. the the Korean govt also got “crony markup†according to Joe’s kinda reasoning.
________________________________________________
Hold on my man!!! You just don’t compare weight straight forward like that. You better get yourself some books and do some reading. If you still don’t understand, better ask Paul and the like.
Wah…RM56k for a loaded non-CPS gen2?!! Sorry lah, tats not cheap at all…not much cheaper frm the current loaded gen2 hatchback. It definitely will be killed by the new Vios, rumored to be priced starting at RM60K+. Realistically, price difference of Potong vs foreign of RM20k or less, any rational person will choose foreign. The used car market has spoken loudly…Potong is only worth RM30k-RM40k. They come out wif sedan to cater for the mass uncle-auntie crowd…but sorry to say most our smart dollar-and-cent-counting uncles aunties will unlikely pay RM50k for a Potong.
RM50k for non-CPS Potong…how much they hav to charge for CPS Potong? 60k, 70k,…? Sorry, not worth for Potong!
Also, with Ringgit going up, soon we can import CBU from Japan even cheaper than CKD…Toyota and Honda will also be under pressure to lower price. I m definitely saving my $$ for CBU Lancer or Civic. Sorry to say…Potong looks like doomed!
ezralimm said,
RM46k for a 1200kg class sedan is very reasonable by any standard in any country.
—————-
MyBoy said,
Hold on my man!!! You just don’t compare weight straight forward like that. You better get yourself some books and do some reading.
——————
Used weight criteria to justify the price is “reasonable”?
1. P1 auto gear should be less than 100kg, OK lah give them 150kg if they like. By weight, it is 150kg x RM 38.33 (RM 46K/1,200kg) = RM 5,750. Why the auto gear box sold by P1 is at more than RM 10k?
2. OK lah, typical terrace 20′ x 70′ house, the average weight is 100 ton to 120 tonne. So, 110 tonne x 1,000kg x RM 38.33 = RM 4.2 million?????
OK not logic yah because house is difference cateogories can’t sale by weight as it constitute from wood, stone, concrete to steebar! No apple to apple comparison?
3. OK you say the cost of Gen-2 is RM 36K, therefore selling at RM 45K is reasonable. So, force the consumer to bear your high cost? (no economies of scale). Log on below see with this RM 36K cost or below. What models with similar “cost” and similar engine cc other can makes (this also including logistic cost say ship to Port Klang): –
http://www.customs.gov.my/html/cbu2006warta.htm
a) CHERY A 160 Car (1598 cc) – RM 20,766
b) CHERY A 180 Car (1796 cc) – RM 36,640
c) CHEVROLET Aveo 1.5 AT Car (1498 cc) – RM 24,961
d) CHEVROLET Optra 1.6 Car (1598 cc) – RM 31,464
e) FORD Escape 2.3L FWD 4WD (2261 cc) – RM 36,502
f) HONDA Jazz 1.5 I-DSI Car (1497 cc) – RM 38,487
g) HYUNDAI Sonata NF 2.0 GLS Car (1997 cc) – RM 30,068
h) HYUNDAI Sonata NF 2.4 GLS Car (2395 cc) – RM 34,746
i) KIA Carens MPV (1793 cc) – RM 36,750
j) KIA Optima Car (1997 cc) – RM 28,000
k) MITSUBISHI Lancer Car (1584 cc) – RM 32,760
l) MITSUBISHI Lancer GLX car (1584 cc) – RM 34,492
m) SUBARU Impreza 1.6 TS (A) WD Car (1597 cc) – RM 32,644
n) SUZUKI Swift 1.5 Premier Car (1490 cc) – RM 36,747
o) SUZUKI Swift 1.5(A) Car (1490 cc) – RM 29,057
p) VOLKSWAGEN Polo 1.6 Car (1568 cc) – RM 28,624
q) VOLKSWAGEN Polo 2.0 Car (1781 cc) – RM 39,245
r) VOLKSWAGEN Golf 3.2 Car (1984 cc) – RM 39,384
So, we can make the following conclusions on pricing for Gen-2 Sedan: –
1. Say the figure RM 36K is a cost for Gen-2 Sedan is accurate. Therefore, P1 car never achieve economies of scale – lowest cost per units. The selling price is even “low” in relation their cost?
2. The selling price at RM 46K is reasonable? By same extension, it is crap NAP that very unreasonable make the cars as menitoned above from (a) to (r) selling at some even above RM 100K, For example Sonata 2.4L with “cost” RM 34,746 that should be OTR price around RM 46K now become more than RM 120K (approx. 3 times).
3. So, Gen-2 sedan with “newer technology” compare to Wira or milo tin on the wheel stonage Iswara is consider good? But when we make becnhmarking with the world market, can Gen-2 Sedan “techi-stuff” with similar cost is comparable to the like of from (a) to (b) as mentioned above, since future scenario is they might export this models that have no NAP to protect it. Go and figure out the tech and quality difference between Gen-2 Sedan and Lancer 1.6L (remember by “cost” basis, it is apple to apple comparison)!!!!!
Protonian always like to compare with the worst or less fortunate when come to any shortcoming or weaknesses. Even to the extent oh, previously I have this problems (that shouldn’t exist in the first place like power window issue) and now I resolve it, then consider “improvement” lol ….. Or worst of the worst that can’t find in any part of the world – “don’t like, get out of this country”!
Please wake up , if we want better future and improvement, we have to work hard, strive for the best, compare with the best or lowest cost around the world.
Joe and MyBoy, how old are you two?
using your example for:
f) HONDA Jazz 1.5 I-DSI Car (1497 cc) – RM 38,487 …from the govt “sauce”.
… It is still RM63k in Labuan Free Trade Zone (ie. No NAP), ON THE ROAD.
So even **without** NAP it would be 65% more expensive than the price on that cbu warta you seem to like alot.
The RM60k+ price is about right. Same as the price here in Australia.
None of you bothered to check out real OTR costs of 1200kg class sedans in other countries (without NAP). Cant face the truth?
RE: RM7200 picanto
What Little said sounds reasonable: “I think the RM7200 is the basic material of the kia picanto”
RE: weight argument using houses?
…are you nuts?
And please, car weight is a good indicator of size/build.
~1000kg: Polo, Savvy.
~1200kg: Civic, Corolla, Gen2. -light sedans
~1400kg: Sedan. Eg. Perdana. Camry. Accord.
~1600kg: Full sized sedan. Eg Ford Falcon.
h) HYUNDAI Sonata NF 2.4 GLS Car (2395 cc) – RM 34,746
It’s a 1400kg class (perdana size) sedan.
Not realistic price. Even at RM55k.
A 2.4L model is going for AUD30k (RM85k) here OTR. Hi spec models are up to RM120k OTR.
Wah, i guess Australia also has a “Crony Markup” using Joe’s logic.
!!! AUSTRALIA HAS 150% CRONY MARKUP…
lol
RE: RM7200 Kia Picanto
According to the cbu warta that you seem to worship as gospel truth:
KIA Picanto 1.1 (A) RM18,000
ezralimm said,
July 22, 2007 @ 3:14 pm
RE: RM7200 Kia Picanto
————
Yes it is true, this price is “harga kilang”, not include logistics said shipping from factory to Korean port then to Port Klang, any minimal tax from Korean G, miscellaneous cost, etc. The CBU warta price list already include all those mentioned above but exclude NAP.
A 2.4L car at AUS 30K (85K) just like Camry 2.0L(G) at Langkawi have similar price is reasonable! Consider the NORMAL profits and other cost as I make calculation in the previous thread!
But to say Gen-2 Sedan cost at RM 36K (assume it is accurate) but selling at RM 46K is very unreasonable for those who don’t know how to do biz or can’t compete in the open market! If you argue other makes with similar cost have to sale above RM 70K, then same principle shall apply to Gen-2 Sedan so as to be commercially viable? Simple logic as that!
No wonder now P1 loss like hell for able to sell at “reasonable price” but not be able to produce at “reasonable cost”! But from economic of scale perspective – P1 sell at unreasonable price since it is produce at unreasonable high cost.
If no NAP, definately Sonata 2.4L won’t sale at unreasonable low RM 46K but not ridiculously sold at more than RM 120K under NAP! How glaring your self-contradiction!
Joe, you forgotten that dealers/distributor also want a chunk of it. that’s y u can see even in malaysia tax free zone is more expensive. Stop using those government listed cbu warta price list! it’s for reference only
It can’t be “selective” or “double standard” to comment that Gen-2 Sedan and 2.4L Sonata with same cost can say Gen-2 Sedan sale at RM 46K is reasonable, but Sonata have to be sell at more than RM 80K only reasonable consider other variable is similar?
fastcx, that already well known practice in real biz world. I don’t mean that Sonata have to sell at RM 46K, and definitely I don’t agree that Gen-2 Sedan selling at RM 46K is reasonable for “newer tech” compare to OLD Wira (RM 36K if it is accurate) but not NEW Sonata, that is my points!
And joe, if u even carefully investigate rather than refer to anything u can see, the chart is just CIF, which only include manufacture cost, insurance for marine transport, and freighter cost. which havent include 10% sales tax, government NAP, and most importantly distributor profit. Joe, your comment starting from now on is considered questionable for me.
Wira SE was selling at 48k, get your fact rite joe
Most importantly, carefully research rather than put up a chart w/o reading the whole site
ezralimm said,
And please, car weight is a good indicator of size/build.
~1000kg: Polo, Savvy.
~1200kg: Civic, Corolla, Gen2. -light sedans
~1400kg: Sedan. Eg. Perdana. Camry. Accord.
~1600kg: Full sized sedan. Eg Ford Falcon.
__________________________________________
Good indicator? No its not.
Have you ever heard of Hydroform technique. Go figure and don’t forget to buy yourself some books. People@paultan is not as idiot as you P1 people.
And again, guys, stick to topic and stop calling each other idiot w/o any relevant content
Wira Sedan 1.5L manual now only sell RM38k.. Clearing stock for the new Gen.2 sedan.. even free u 3 months of installment.. haiz.. SE is other man..
Erm this is out of topic,
Paul, perhaps a rating system for posters can be implemented? like in anandtech.com comment system. should be able to help you in managing post easier.
thx littlefire85 for correction, my bad ;-)
“PRICE WAR” – OK lah, enough clarification and explanation is being make, whether you all agree or disagree (including misquote me) with my view, that is your right. I closed my case!
Just like Unicons said, let the car come out first, test drive then only make constructive comments! Like it, buy it, don’t like then forgot about it! Cheers and happy motoring as well!
For protonians, keep on supporting it for your patriotic and pride consideration eventhough at all cost!
For bashers, those who can’t afford import car or force to buy P1 due to limited budget! here is “a, b & c” guide to buying P1 car: –
a) Adopt waite-and-see attitude. Let-other-buy-first-see-the-defects-let-P1-tech-guy-fix-first then purchase later.
b) For those who can waite longer. Since Savvy (Lite), Waja (leather seat), Gen-2 already set precedent with improve features at no cost like limited/special editions. then let P1 offer additional features first (likely happen if the sales is bad) then purchase!
c) If can waite much more longer, or don’t mind, looking for old stock (year 2005/2006) for best discount. What I know the old stock depreciate almost as much as used car. Means those used car and old stock with similar production year, the price different is “marginal”.
Good joe, this is the most constructive comment come from u that i have seen, lets wait till the car come out only justify the price is reasonable or not
fastcx said,
And again, guys, stick to topic and stop calling each other idiot w/o any relevant content
________________________________________________
Agree with you, my bad.
One question though. If P1 people is so damn smart, why the hell they did what they did?
ezralimm said,
And please, car weight is a good indicator of size/build.
~1000kg: Polo, Savvy.
~1200kg: Civic, Corolla, Gen2. -light sedans
~1400kg: Sedan. Eg. Perdana. Camry. Accord.
~1600kg: Full sized sedan. Eg Ford Falcon.
_________________________________________________
Good indicator? No its not (in P1 case).
Have you ever heard of Hydroform technique. Go figure and don’t forget to buy yourself some books. People@paultan is smarter than you P1 people.
??? MyBoy and Joe.
I will not get caught up in nitpicking anymore.
1) I stick to my view that RM46k is reasonable for a 1200kg class sedan.
UNLESS: you could show me that a 1200kg sedan is going for a much cheaper price, ON THE ROAD, in another country.
2) I stick to my view that weight is a good estimator of car build/class/size for cars within the same build year. Im sure other readers will agree with me.
3) I avoid flaming. I avoid passing judgment on people (ie. calling them names etc… it’s weak. seriously). I will not act like i know everything. Some people mention obscure technologies to sound smart…thinking that they could making others look stupid. It’s a weak tactic to use. Show’s immaturity. These are the same people who’s coincidently have Extra Special Powers to predict the future and claim to know things about a car not yet released.
4) I comment based on my opinion as a person who has purchased a car abroad and I know how prices can differ from what you see online. And how figures can be biased to make a car look cheap or expensive.
as u know those basher always know more than us especially they know more than the ppl alrdy test the gen2 sedan( proton r&d ppl ), coz they got “VISION” like in Charmed..heheh maybe they already know that car is no good b4 the engineer strt to sketch the gen2 sedan…hahaha..what la basher…
MyBoy, yea u also mentioned “did”, tat was previous management ;-) so let’s see what they DO now
LittleFire85, developing a gearbox isnt a cheap solution. and even tho campro might be old tech, but it was developed designed by lotus and built by proton while proton’s resources arent much. At least this engine allow them minus the loyalty fee for other marque engine. after all, this is their first engine, there will be more in future when they get matured and have a few partners to develop engine together like how korean acquire their cvvt engine, it’s not even 50% from them, it was developed in partnership with other company
I m confused…this website say the gen2 sedan has cps?!!
http://forum.wiseautoclub.com/index.php?showtopic=7364
Any reliable source?
from my point of view actually proton have 2 improve on quality, price,after sales N service like Toyota/Honda as well. Proton have to beat other japanese/korean cars like Perodua did to other compact car (KCar)-1.3 cc below. The tremendous sales by Perodua, Myvi N Viva.
I’m proud of m’sian car.s For proton it is a GLC company to think the people’s money(tax payer) that Proton have to take a very good care to spend peoples money.
For the new design, the proton designer have 2 meet the World Standard/Requirement to design a passenger car not desined a toy car Or in chinese said ‘cinchai work..’
Littlefire85,u missed the point, proton can’t collaborate with other marque to produce engine yet is because they can’t even produce their own engine until campro, hyundai produced their own engine before, which is alpha and beta. At least proton stepped in a right direction now. Lotus’s own engine design wasn’t good enough for lotus own cars that’s why they choose some1 else. And lotus have record of designing engine for other company, but their designs arent great. At least proton can have a jump start with lotus designing their campro. tho it’s not great, and have many basic things pickup from mitsu 4g series. at least with campro, they show they are capable of building engine and improve them. with that criteria only can they be considered to develop engine with others as they have something to exchange with.
aa now im remember those engine in chevrolet optra/lacetti a.k.a daewoo nabira r from collaboration between GM and lotus coz before proton GM owning it..if im not wrg the engine is E-Tec(1.8) and D-Tec(1.8), little fire ask them y they dun use those engine too??that engine born b4 campro..
err *E-Tec(1.6)*
Yup! Bbingbong at least u get my point! Why we have to use the Campro engine? While they have design more better engine last time? Even time can made that technology cheaper! Haiz..
Anywayz Bbingbong, i really have six-sense.. LOL! If u want help from spiritual, can come for my help.. I predicted Gen.2 model to fail and it does.. Now, if Gen.2 sedan come with CPS maybe can survive.. But if come with old campro with no new adjustment.. Well also another failure..
that’s y la just wait and c until the launch , dont just make the crap speculation..i agree the current gen2 failed, but maybe this new sedan they’ll come with the improvement (but not with cps lar)…if not,they know what will happen to them..ppl at there also smart lar, if they come with no improvement they will gulung tikat lar…
kingglim said,
July 22, 2007 @ 8:41 pm
I m confused…this website say the gen2 sedan has cps?!!
http://forum.wiseautoclub.com/index.php?showtopic=7364
Any reliable source?
__________________________________________________________
That’s the prob. To date I have not come across any solid reference to the tech spec for the “real” CamPro. So far I saw it from forums but even p1 dun have it.
http://www.proton.com/innovation/rnd/campro.php
Even glancing through their modals with campro fitted all state 110hp.
so comfused @_@
this gen2 sedan comes new colour scheme interior, new handbrake, new gear lever, new armrest, redesign seat, relocation of power window switches to driver’s door,side mirror control also there n the door lock there. glove box bigger than waja, more cup holder two in centre also for the rear occupants got two cupholders. redesign of door opening,redesign of meter cluster, no more analog clock at centre dashboard, all the swithches and the material used this time very good feel . no more cheap feel. at the preview for the staff i say man with 6 foot seated at the backseat n he said no touched at the roof. more leg room. the bonet very wide n larger than current gen2. u can open the bonet from the key. so, what i want to say.. there’s a lot improvement on the interior…
Driven2020 said,
July 23, 2007 @ 10:15 am
“That’s the prob. To date I have not come across any solid reference to the tech spec for the “real†CamPro. So far I saw it from forums but even p1 dun have it.
http://www.proton.com/innovation/rnd/campro.php
Even glancing through their modals with campro fitted all state 110hp.
so comfused @_@”
_________________________________________________________________________
Yes, Driven2020. I’m confused too. But by referring to the link above, the ‘Engine Speed’ graph roughly shows that the CPS has a maximum power output of 95kW, which is about 127hp!!. That’s quite a lot of power for a natural aspirated 1.6 litre engine. Probably the highest power output in it’s class??????
nizam80 said,
July 23, 2007 @ 10:57 am
Driven2020 said,
July 23, 2007 @ 10:15 am
“That’s the prob. To date I have not come across any solid reference to the tech spec for the “real†CamPro. So far I saw it from forums but even p1 dun have it.
http://www.proton.com/innovation/rnd/campro.php
Even glancing through their modals with campro fitted all state 110hp.
so comfused @_@â€
_________________________________________________________________________
Yes, Driven2020. I’m confused too. But by referring to the link above, the ‘Engine Speed’ graph roughly shows that the CPS has a maximum power output of 95kW, which is about 127hp!!. That’s quite a lot of power for a natural aspirated 1.6 litre engine. Probably the highest power output in it’s class??????
_________________________________________________________________________
sure but since they got the curve, why dun give the official specs? either they are or arent working on it OR they lakar the curve just to make us happy kekeke
ciplak 1992 d15b oso pumps 127hp ler and thats just a 1493 cc from a sohc vtec valvetrain so really no big deal actually.
#
mr. proton said,
July 23, 2007 @ 10:26 am
this gen2 sedan comes new colour scheme interior, new handbrake, new gear lever, new armrest, redesign seat, relocation of power window switches to driver’s door,side mirror control also there n the door lock there. glove box bigger than waja, more cup holder two in centre also for the rear occupants got two cupholders. redesign of door opening,redesign of meter cluster, no more analog clock at centre dashboard, all the swithches and the material used this time very good feel . no more cheap feel. at the preview for the staff i say man with 6 foot seated at the backseat n he said no touched at the roof. more leg room. the bonet very wide n larger than current gen2. u can open the bonet from the key. so, what i want to say.. there’s a lot improvement on the interior…
*******************************************************************************************
This make me harder to chose… Waja Premium or this latest model…hemmm
Waja Premium absolutely look great especialy the interior…the arm rest at the back seat… maybe will wait 3 more month laa….
Mr Proton,
U r Proton Staff? I had one at RnD. He’s own own business now so i lost info there…:( thanks anyway.. Cant wait.
mrproton: I have been working hard at deleting comments which insult another commentor. I have also been deleting Joe Ooi’s “protonian insulting” comments. I’ve been deleting comments that are not directly related to the topic too. Your comment must have been one of this type of comments, but if it isn’t, I must have deleted it by mistake, if thats the case, I apologize. There’s just too much unrelated comments in here to clear up everyday.
aril: please dont start accusing me baselessly of hiding behind another nickname. as if i have nothing else to do.
Paul..sorry…i dont mean it..
Paul, i had a pic this Sedan park at Showroom…How to send to u…TQ
#
king said,
July 21, 2007 @ 2:51 pm
July 21, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
==hmm, what u had commented and given examples is damn lousy and non related issues. u r the one should keep ur mouth shut. make it tight. u still don’t get it, that i m telling u, u have been like a morons so stupid talking idiotly. u have been spoiling the fun of automotives. u didn’t listen others commented on viva don’t meant none or not yet. u compared with car with price? why don’t u compared with ferrari, bmw, toyota etc? all cars also having 4 wheels and a engine. didn’t learn any still wanna condemn others, what an idiot still live in this world?
hopefully paul can look at this fellow who insulting others and malaysia only instead of talking about cars.
#
peYno-1 said,
July 21, 2007 @ 10:17 pm
actuallt those proton bashers really make me laugh la
becoz i know their mentallity as i used to be like them too.
they shud learn from me
==hmm………r u sure learn from u? hahaha. why r u always have to mention malaysia is a 3rd world country? where u get this fact? u hv problems in malaysia? can u explain?
About the new addition to our Proton family …
The official launch will happen mid August, which means the car can be viewed from the 15th August onwards.
The name of the car will be revealed on the official launch date.
The soft launch of our new car on the 21st July 2007 means we are now open for bookings.
Customers are invited and encouraged to book their cars now to avoid being on a long wait list!
The booking fee is RM 500.
The booking fee is transferable but strictly non-refundable.
The new car comes in 5 variants:
1.6 Base Line Model – 2 variants (AT and MT). * indicative on the road price – RM45+++
This variant is a Base model with 4 power windows, CD player and basic features.
1.6 Medium Line Model – 2 variants (AT and MT). * indicative on the road price – RM 49+++
This variant is the Medium range model and has additional features from the Base Line variant, such as driver’s side airbag, alloy rims, foldable rear seats, MP3 player and electric door mirror.
1.6 High Line Model – (Only available in AT). * indicative on the road price – RM 55+++
This variant is an extension of the Medium range variant, with features such as dual airbags, ABS, EBD and standard Captor alarm.
This new car includes our extended warranty package, which provides warranty support + coverage for up to five years.
The interest rate for financing the car is 4.1%
Delivery lead-time from booking date is approximately 4-6 weeks. Status of delivery lead-time will be communicated regularly.
FAQs on Bookings
Question: If I have booked this car but have not received it yet, can I transfer my booking to another existing proton model?
Answer: Yes, you can.
Question: Will EON also be selling the car?
Answer: Yes.
FAQs On the Specifications Design, and Quality Standard
Question: Is this a Mitsubishi based model?
Answer: No, since the Waja, there has not been any Mitsubishi-based model.
Question: Is this new car running on the Campro engine?
Answer: Yes, it is running on the Proton Campro Engine, with improved TCU for better performance.
Question: What is the engine specification?
Answer: 1.6L – Max Power: 82kw (110bhp) @ 6000rpm
Max Torque 148NM @ 4000rpm
Question: What is the standard service interval?
Answer: Every 10,000km.
Question: Can I test drive before buying?
Answer: Yes, please visit the nearest Proton showroom to test drive the New Sedan after our official launch.
Question: What colours will be available?
Answer: Iridescent White, Solid Red, Light Gold, Tranquility Black, Metal Grey & Blueberry Tea.
Solid White will be available from September 2007 onwards.
Question: What are the dimensions of the New Sedan?
Answer: Overall Length
Overall Width
Overall Height
Fuel Capacity
Luggage Volume
Weight 4477mm
1725mm
1438mm
50 L
430 L
1180 – 1210 KG
Question: What are the differences between the variants?
Answer: 1.6 L Base-Line (MT & AT) 1.6 L Medium-Line (MT & AT) 1.6 L High-Line (AT)
Steel Wheels with 195/60 R15 tyres with wheel cover Alloy Sports Rims with 195/60 R15 tyres Alloy Sports Rims with 195/60 R15 tyres
– – ABS anti-lock braking with Electronic Brake Distribution (EBD)
Central Locking Central Locking Central Locking
FR & RR Power Windows FR & RR Power Windows FR & RR Power Windows
Alarm with Immobilizer Alarm with Immobilizer Alarm with Immobilizer
Brakes: Fr Discs, Rear Drum Brakes: Fr Discs, Rear Drum Brakes: Fr & Rear Discs
Remote Door Mirrors Electrically operated door mirrors Electrically operated door mirrors
– Driver Seat Airbag Driver & Front Passenger Airbags
Reverse Sensors Reverse Sensors Reverse Sensors
Fixed Rear Seat Foldable, spilt rear seats Foldable, spilt rear seats
– Multi function audio control buttons on the steering wheel Multi function audio control buttons on the steering wheel
Radio & CD Player with 2 speakers CD and MP3 Players with 4 speakers CD and MP3 Players with 4 speakers
– Front Fog Lamps Front Fog Lamps
– – Remote Trunk Opening
Remote Trunk Opening….. yeahhh… that is an improvement…..
ok mr paul tan.. im sorry if my comments included rubbish item inside.. anyway.. waiting for ur future post on gen2 sedan at 15 august.. hope fully, all of us get it clear on this model.. cheers…
Remote Trunk!!! Like Accord…BMW ….Owh god…besidet improvement, this great..This is Changes….GREAT…….
aj3377
…thanks for ur added info.. the important thing… this time with GOOD QUALITY MATERIAL inside.. i can guarantee that..
to ezralimm,
hmm…….how can u compared the cars by weight and related to price? please check out the bmw 3series and 5series with same engine capacity but different class/segment and having almost similar weight. also much more heavier then other mades. it is not right to compared the car price with other countries since the cost of living, the value of the money or conversion is different too. this is not a proper comparison to our malaysian automotives industries. every countries have they own automotive pricing. why not check out the price to buy a bmw in japan or a toyota in korea. hahaha……….
i think its not compare, that just information about the car only…..please view at proton edar website.. :)
i think its not compare the weight, that just information about the car only…..please view at proton edar website.. :)
Yea, a low end luxury make (BMW, Merc, Lexus) is about RM160k OTR in australia. Yeah, it’s alot cheaper than in Malaysia where the same car will be roughly double that.
…but those are luxury makes. Not common everyday cars. Coming to think of it, i’ve never seen a 7 series OTR in melbourne…1series seems popular.. and lexus IS250… oh well, that’s off topic.
Back to topic. Ultimately, people in first world countries will find cars 3x cheaper as their purchasing power is 3x higher than Malaysians – assuming the prices of the cars are the same. Thus, a mid range Civic, costing ~RM80k OTR to Australians will be more affordable than the upcoming gen2 sedan, costing ~RM50k OTR to malaysians.
…But still, the gen2 sedan is reasonably priced in comparison to other makes. Even IF the Civic is sold for RM80k OTR in malaysia (assuming NAP didnt exist).
Both the gen2 and civic are of similar weight class/size. Now do you see the importance of weight class? Eg. A baseline VW Polo (without any power windows!), going for about RM60k OTR in australia, is only the size of the Savvy… Thus I wouldnt compare it with the gen2 as it’s a smaller car.
Paul Tan, thanks for removing degratory comments. Your moderation is much appreciated.
Since Proton has officially confrm on its website tat the Gen2 Sedan do not hav CPS (110hp and 148Nm is non-CPS engine), tis is jus taufu on new skin…not worth the money. RM55k loaded is no cheaper than its hatchback sibling; RM45k basic is overcharge vs. its Wira sedan predescessor.
Some here argue tat it is 1,200kg car, comparable to Civic…pls dun lie to yorself…tis is not Civic. Tis car weigh 1,200kg not bcoz it is big, but bcoz Potong is still using cheap heavy bulky cast iron & steel when the whole world is oredi using light weigh aluminium. Be honest lah!
wah u use ESP ar..then if proton use aluminium all of their car will be expensive…u think make car bole guna tin aluminium f&n ka?
Mr. Proton, are you working in Proton? Just wondering as since from the past you have posted information about certain models things like that. Don’t worry I’m not trying to bash you.
kingglim
Please dude..
Not potong..It Proton…
Now say Already…Not Oledi
Next is That…Not tat…If u say tat it seem dirty..hehehe
Remember..Learn dude..Learn…
#
The Unicons said,
July 23, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
Mr. Proton, are you working in Proton? Just wondering as since from the past you have posted information about certain models things like that. Don’t worry I’m not trying to bash you.
********************************************************************************************
I think he is. As he said the pic thati got show sedan in showroom is for staff view…anyway, its good info from him to us….Good Work Proton And Staff
To kingglim. Try to find any car manufacturers, everytime come out 1 new design or model together with new engine(s)? Look at the upcoming 3rd generation Toyota Vios also use the current 1.5L VVT-i engine found in current Vios and Yaris. Taufu on new skin? Sounds familiar? I’ve read the review of the car now waiting for test drive it. The engine some how noisy like the current one, no improvement.
By the way, there are many manufacturers out there still using cast iron block and alloy cylinder for their engines. Anyway, I do hope the Campro CPS will use aluminium for the engines. Sorry out of topic but to make things clear.
The Unicons said,
To kingglim. Try to find any car manufacturers, everytime come out 1 new design or model together with new engine(s)? Look at the upcoming 3rd generation Toyota Vios also use the current 1.5L VVT-i engine found in current Vios and Yaris. Taufu on new skin? Sounds familiar? I’ve read the review of the car now waiting for test drive it. The engine some how noisy like the current one, no improvement.
By the way, there are many manufacturers out there still using cast iron block and alloy cylinder for their engines. Anyway, I do hope the Campro CPS will use aluminium for the engines. Sorry out of topic but to make things clear.
_____________________________________________________
You can take BMW 3 Series as an example.They give you new engine during the model debut and again they even give you new engine somewhere during midlife facelift.
Driven2020 said,
July 23, 2007 @ 11:04 am
“ciplak 1992 d15b oso pumps 127hp ler and thats just a 1493 cc from a sohc vtec valvetrain so really no big deal actually.”
________________________________________________________________________
Hmm… D15B SOHC VTEC from 1992, rite? If i’m not mistaken, this engine pumps out 130hp@6800rpm, and max torque at roughly 114Nm@5200rpm. I’m sure the upcoming CPS has more torque than that. Even the current Campro without Variable Valve Timing has 148Nm@6000rpm.
nizam80 said,
Hmm… D15B SOHC VTEC from 1992, rite? If i’m not mistaken, this engine pumps out 130hp@6800rpm, and max torque at roughly 114Nm@5200rpm. I’m sure the upcoming CPS has more torque than that. Even the current Campro without Variable Valve Timing has 148Nm@6000rpm.
______________________________________________
Nizam, its 148Nm@4000rpm. Still a bit on a high side, the rpm for max torque should be lower.
MyBoy said,
July 23, 2007 @ 3:18 pm
“Nizam, its 148Nm@4000rpm. Still a bit on a high side, the rpm for max torque should be lower.”
_________________________________________________________________________
Ouch, sorry my mistake. Didn’t notice that.
Joe Ooi,
“BMW, by virtue of your statement, you means we including P1 have to reject the findings of AutoZine and Reder’s Digest? Like to hear your further comments!”
Joe ooi, very simple. i know you have a waja, as you have stated it before. If you comment based on your own experiences. as a malaysian and as a proton owner, your negative comments on proton carry far more weight than the comments of a person that to me, lacks credibility. How can someone(autozine) who hasnt even seen a real proton, comment about the car? do you understand where i’m coming from?
as for readers digest, Its their own findings, not P1’s findings.. How can you relate “tax-payers” money, and P1 to a totally non- industry-related independent company(Readers Digest), thats not even malaysian???!? please clarify.
ezralimm said,
July 23, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
==mentioned already, u just can’t count on weight. car makers classified it on class or segment. didn’t classified car based on weights. only considering power to weight ratio.
Sorry Paul. Out of topic again but to clear things here.
To MyBoy, as I said: Try to find any car manufacturers, everytime come out 1 new design or model together with new engine(s)?. Did you read my word especially EVERYTIME, 1 NEW DESIGN / MODEL TOGETHER WITH NEW ENGINES?
By the way, Proton come out Campro 1.6 together with Gen.2 then again Campro 1.3 fitted in Gen.2. Proton Waja came out fitted with Mitsubishi 1.6 engine. Now also with Campro 1.6. Upcoming facelift Proton Waja and Proton Gen.2 will come with new engines. Campro CPS + VIM. Sound familiar?
The launch is 15 August…Wenesday..Everybody works??…I will miss that ceremony if at Mutiara Damansara…KERJA LAA on that day
just being informed by proton sales rep,that no cps included but engine up grades made, cant remember the technical terms he mentioned,interior more spacious,
most car buyers are not really bothered about technical stuff, very confusing..maybe some simple questions like How many cc? Good pickup?Safe petrol? Bumpy or not? how much? and of course bigger interior is a bonus..
aril..
dun worry.. his royal majesty tuanku mizan will officiate at night in line with perasmian bulan kemerdekaan. its purpose to attract more customer in conjunction with 50th merdeka.. hope this strategy success.
wong..
u rite.. this time engine retuning for more smooth drive also with spacious interior..
The Unicons said,
Sorry Paul. Out of topic again but to clear things here.
To MyBoy, as I said: Try to find any car manufacturers, everytime come out 1 new design or model together with new engine(s)?. Did you read my word especially EVERYTIME, 1 NEW DESIGN / MODEL TOGETHER WITH NEW ENGINES?
By the way, Proton come out Campro 1.6 together with Gen.2 then again Campro 1.3 fitted in Gen.2. Proton Waja came out fitted with Mitsubishi 1.6 engine. Now also with Campro 1.6. Upcoming facelift Proton Waja and Proton Gen.2 will come with new engines. Campro CPS + VIM. Sound familiar?
_____________________________________________________
We are talking about post 2000 models are we? So the answer is yes. BMW 3 Series have NEW engine on its debut and another NEW engine somewhere around its midlife facelift.
To aj3377 or mr. proton, is the base line back seat will be fitted with headrest as well? If the interior is totally different from gen2, i would say it not bad. Got remote trunk opening horr~~~
Anywayz i heard that even they still using old engine, but they at least tune the engine with different output for each car.. look at Mazda, if that car is manual they tune the Hp more, while if the car is Auto, it will tune it for more torque.. Well, the engine is still same but still they can tune out 2 different kind of profile.. Why not us? Even BMW, VW also update their engine in CC, ECU, Injection system for more better FC, with no added cost! Look at the new toureq facelift! That why even the engine is old, they manage to improve the output! Compare to P1 old Campro, Ehmm.. The Hp n torque until now still the same..
#
nizam80 said,
July 23, 2007 @ 3:13 pm
Driven2020 said,
July 23, 2007 @ 11:04 am
“ciplak 1992 d15b oso pumps 127hp ler and thats just a 1493 cc from a sohc vtec valvetrain so really no big deal actually.â€
________________________________________________________________________
Hmm… D15B SOHC VTEC from 1992, rite? If i’m not mistaken, this engine pumps out 130hp@6800rpm, and max torque at roughly 114Nm@5200rpm. I’m sure the upcoming CPS has more torque than that. Even the current Campro without Variable Valve Timing has 148Nm@6000rpm.
________________________________________________________________________
nizam,
130ps is roughly 127hp bit tricky here hehe.
obviously campro would have higher torque lah u comparing it with 1.6L to a 1.5L mah
but i flip through the tech spec the very very veyr dated 1992 d15b single cam vtec is rated 130ps@6800rpm 138nm@5200rpm. this is grossly far away from ur value of 114nm kekeke
Of course the definition of NEW engine is very broad.
From a sometime-can-reliable source:Proton will name this as..Proton GenSet.
Hope proton dont sue me later on aa..Tq
GenSET? huhh….
Driven2020 said,
July 23, 2007 @ 7:17 pm
“nizam,
130ps is roughly 127hp bit tricky here hehe.
obviously campro would have higher torque lah u comparing it with 1.6L to a 1.5L mah
but i flip through the tech spec the very very veyr dated 1992 d15b single cam vtec is rated 130ps@6800rpm 138nm@5200rpm. this is grossly far away from ur value of 114nm kekeke”
________________________________________________________________________
Driven2020,
Hmm… i’ve mentioned earlier, “if i’m not mistaken” regarding the engine specs. Its been quite a long time, so i may have forgotten the actual specs. So, according to specs, in this case the 1.5 litre D15B SOHC VTEC beats the 1.6 litre DOHC CPS hands down. U r rite also that its not fair to compare between a 1.5 and a 1.6 litre engine.
“GenSet”? Sounds wierd. But, i’ll get used to it.
But we can’t compare engines with just the hp and torque nowadays, emission counts too, that’s why nowadays we can’t see great power engine for common consumers, due to usa emission regulation they have to obey to sell those engine there. u wouldn’t do double work wouldn’t u? they wouldn’t even bother to tune another engine for lower emission standard country like malaysia
anyway back to topic…when i went to the showroom yesterday, the proton SA actually got not much info except price list ( but no name of model) but downloaded pics from paultan.org. someone from here working at seri petaling proton showroom? why the need of a soft launch?
nizam,
yahloh that engine was introduced to eg series civics waaay back 15 years ago. further refined with vtec-e then penultimate combination of vtec-e + vtec to give 130ps but manage 20km/l manual on 10-15 test modes!
saying so that is a very very very dated engine to mingle about lerr
proton genset? hmm sounds tricky would be cautious before buying one who knows it breaks down during the time when it is needed the most haahaha
btw, i dun mind driving a p1 with d15b vtec in it. haha wan chiong proton vtec that would be really sweet
#
kingglim said,
July 23, 2007 @ 2:35 pm
Since Proton has officially confrm on its website tat the Gen2 Sedan do not hav CPS (110hp and 148Nm is non-CPS engine), tis is jus taufu on new skin…not worth the money. RM55k loaded is no cheaper than its hatchback sibling; RM45k basic is overcharge vs. its Wira sedan predescessor.
Some here argue tat it is 1,200kg car, comparable to Civic…pls dun lie to yorself…tis is not Civic. Tis car weigh 1,200kg not bcoz it is big, but bcoz Potong is still using cheap heavy bulky cast iron & steel when the whole world is oredi using light weigh aluminium. Be honest lah!
___________________________________________________________________________
kingglim no use to argue about the enginelerr as long we know it deep in our hearts ( actually knew about it long long time ago) just let it be lo. if eventually CPS+VIM gimmick really comes out lets see the pricing impact. if around 55k, I’d see some angry users who bought the previous version without the gimmick knocking on p1’s door hahaha.
last i read from here the hoo haa rumored “Shin” (means real in bahasa jepun) Campro will be out early july. now saying gentu with longer a$$ come out mid august. but it was all another udara panas…T_T.
where are u ar o dear shin campro? i wait u long time until madonna too old to sing “musiiiiiiiiiiic”
but wonder how much would it cost? 60K? 65K? better off getting a 2nd hand ek4 1.6L dohc vtec for 45K or even a all new vios for a turn lolz
ezra,
I agree with you, so many categories of cars nowadays that it is better to class them by weight and cc. I would put this model in comparison with nissan sentra 1.6. But there are lots of ppl here pretending to know alot bout cars. sheessh!!
BELOW 60 K YOU CAN BUY A SECONDHAND BMW E36 OR AN AUDI,MERC,..THE TOPIC NOW IS ABOUT PROTON GEN2…IF YOU DONT LIKE DONT BUY ..VERY SIMPLE..NO NEED TO COMPLAINT SO MUCH..LET OTHERS DECIDE WHAT THEY LIKE TO BUY..
P1 or p2 both are very good cars..problems? any car also got problem..like humans too..
P1 OR P2 BOTH ARE GOOD CARS..PROBLEMS ? ANY CARS MUST HAVE PROBLEMS,LIKE HUMANS TOO, THE DIFFERENCE IS CARS IN NOT DESIGN INSULT EACH OTHER…
Support Proton la…..we are malaysian y need to support other countries cars…Haiyaaaaaaaa…..
“Today’s disc/drum setups are completely adequate for the majority of new cars. Remember that both disc and drum brake design has been vastly improved in the last 20 years. In fact, the current rear drum brake systems on today’s cars would provide better stopping performance then the front disc setups of the ’70s. And today’s front disc brakes are truly exceptional in terms of stopping power. Combined with the fact that between 60 and 90 percent of a vehicle’s stopping power comes from the front wheels, it’s clear that a well-designed, modern drum brake is all that’s required for most rear wheel brake duty.
High performance cars like the Viper, 911 and Corvette can justify a four-wheel disc brake system, especially if their owners participate in some form of sanctioned racing activity on the weekends. The rest of us get more of a benefit from the lower cost of drum brakes. Expecting every vehicle built today to come with four-wheel disc brakes would require an cross-the-board
increase in purchase price, and that could stop new car buyers much quicker than any brake system.”
LittleFire85 said,
July 23, 2007 @ 6:56 pm
Anywayz i heard that even they still using old engine, but they at least tune the engine with different output for each car.. look at Mazda, if that car is manual they tune the Hp more, while if the car is Auto, it will tune it for more torque.. Well, the engine is still same but still they can tune out 2 different kind of profile.. Why not us? Even BMW, VW also update their engine in CC, ECU, Injection system for more better FC, with no added cost! Look at the new toureq facelift! That why even the engine is old, they manage to improve the output! Compare to P1 old Campro, Ehmm.. The Hp n torque until now still the same..
___________________________________________________________________________
wanna tune no problem! just masuk workshop sure tune kau kau sure can squeeze some ponies out of it hahaha
Those people who talk MERC, BMW, HONDA , they even never drive that cars…Just watch at TV (FIFTH GEAR) only…reading magazine..They didnt experience Others cars problem…When they found their proton proton got issue, then they will think other cars not have this prob…Hey, please laa, HONDA, TOYOTA, WHATEVER CARS still the same…It just those people TAK MAMPU PAKAI jer…huhuhu
Tune With Gready E-Manage…like PAUL Satria…10% HP increase…… :)
2ST said,
July 23, 2007 @ 7:25 pm
From a sometime-can-reliable source:Proton will name this as..Proton GenSet.
Hope proton dont sue me later on aa..Tq
—————————————————————-
I don’t think they will call it GenSet… it more like GenTolak…. KEkekekek…
king: sometimes i can miss offending comments. thanks for pointing it out to me.
Please continue discussion at the latest post on the New Proton Sedan:
http://paultan.org/archives/2007/07/24/more-details-on-the-new-proton-sedan/