Here are some more updates on Proton’s possibilities on entering a joint venture with another car manufacturer.
Mitsubishi Motors Corp issued a statement debunking speculation that it might jointly set up a plant here in Malaysia with Proton to assemble or manufacture Mitsubishi cars.
As for the failed Volkswagen partnership, Proton officials shared their side of the story. Proton said it entered talks with Volkswagen originally to explore possibilities of a mutual benefit collaboration, but Volkswagen started talking about a takeover. Proton had considered it, but not without conditions, which obviously caused the entire deal to fail.
Seems everyone is hardcore denying considering going to bed in Proton to protect share prices or some other reason.
Looking to sell your car? Sell it with Carro.
VW so tamak, talk JV , then suddenly mau jadi boss. waaaaaa………….good at talking la, wan to caught proton to say yes. hehehehehe
I don't see how WV going to turn Proton around if they do not gain the management control.
—
who say VW wan to turn proton around? VW just mau proton 2 buat VW cars to sell!!! if proton bankrupt, VW lagi happy, so y VW wanna help proton?
welll to think of that idea is a long shot… vw wont have much guts to do that, or in any way deviate from their contract that has been laid out during the sale(if it ever happen)… and to propose my long shot opinion, vw too have to consider the risk of government re-taking proton forcefully either thru, asset confiscation, nationalisation (as if proton is not nationalised already) or expropriation… dont forget our government has history of doing this… forcefully taking up ppl's land with either minimal or no compensation for most projects…
time to move on proton…
…but just cant resist to think that the vw snub(?), then this mitsu denial tantamount to vote of no confident to the new proton management … and to some extent to our G also….what happen? ….seems like such huge obstacle for the new proton MD….as for the G, does it has the characteristic needed to deal with this?
one suggestion to the G: let's buy mitsu for proton instead…..hehehhehe..
move on je la proton….nobody is confident with the new proton management and new malaysian govt..buckle up and use all ur resources to develope new cars..stop thinking on the negative and just sell everything they have..use lotus to develope..use tuv for qc….the germans back down maybe something to do with the govt policy that japs cars will enter malaysia without tax…thus making our national car and every other nation car expensive…and our economy is going down the drain whether the govt admit it or not..it is true now..
mitsu with proton…they can even stand on their on two feet now…
agree with you param…
The current Protn management only know to hid away…shy away from questions…
has no credibility as in the case f present leadership of Pak LAH , always..keep mum in urgent matter , but willing to speak endlessly in unimportant matters.
drmuzi
Honestly EVERYBODY is only JAGA their own BACKSIDE. VW only want the PLANT and company office not the ppl to study their skills.
Mitsu is trying to protect themself from drop of share price due to speculation news and at the same time they do hope that OUR beloved POTONG company will forced to TAPAU (Means Bankrupt). To act that Nobody is willing to JV with POTONG now!!!
Then….hei…hei…..what's next lah!!!??? Of course ….Take over it and control back Bolehland market!
YAU MOU GAU…..CHOR!!!
hope proton will learn from past JV(mitsu) if they want to JV again with mitsu…… proton better JV with china……. they a master in copy other product….. one fine day in malaysia we can see posh 911 or ferrari(so many) on the road but the engine stated CAMPRO………. ahak ahak ahak….
I agree wit u cosmo… we c who's the hebat in copying things in de meanwhile, quality is stressed olso.
Mitsu by issuing a statement just because there was some speculation about the tie up with Proton seem like telling the world that who ever have a link with proton at the moment will result in their share prices plunge…. * sigh *
I wonder who's next to issue such statement…
Banker: Proton Lucky To Sell 'Hot Potato' In MV Agusta
By Yong Soo Heong
KUALA LUMPUR, Jan 16 (Bernama) — Countless number of people have been asking why Proton Holdings Bhd recently disposed of MV Agusta for just one euro (about RM4.50) but information emanating from people familiar with the deal point to the fact that Proton had to quickly let go of the "hot potato" in the Italian motorcycle-maker.
The facts were grim and simple: faced with a massive financial crunch, under-performing sales and rising production costs, Agusta was just days from missing an instalment to one of its creditor banks. The instalment is believed to be well over 10 million euros.
"The consequence of missing an instalment payment to its banks for frozen debts would have automatically triggered a general default on its entire loan package. This would certainly spell bankruptcy and at that point, even one euro would be out of the question," said a European banker involved in the disposal of MV Agusta.
He said Proton's sale of its 58 percent stake in Agusta to Gevi SpA for one euro was "no surprise" to international financial circles.
"Proton was lucky to dispose of Agusta for a token one euro to Gevi because the very banks that lent money to the motorcycle maker had deemed its shares to be worthless," said the banker, who is with a Swiss financial services group.
Agusta had requested for additional capital injection to keep it afloat when its creditor banks refused to extend any more credit.
"When the Proton management offered to pledge its entire Agusta shares to Agusta's banks, they were told the shares were worthless. It was a real turning point.
"If Proton stayed with Agusta, it would have to pump in even more funds on top of the 100 million euros it had already sunk into the company," the banker said.
He disclosed that Agusta's creditor banks were ready to foreclose and if that had happened, Italian law would have held Proton responsible for all contingent liabilities.
He said that although Proton Capital, a Proton Holdings' subsidiary, owned Agusta, Italian law allowed creditors and bankers to go all the way up to the beneficial owners – meaning Proton Holdings would be held liable.
"If this wasn't enough of a problem, several Agusta directors had broken ranks and were on the verge of having the firm file for early bankruptcy. It was really a matter of days," the banker said.
With bankruptcy filing imminent, Proton had to immediately conclude a sale to a buyer willing to take over the ailing Agusta, pump in cash, revive bank credit lines and take over all contingent liabilities, while relieving Proton from any further claims by Agusta's creditors.
"Gevi was the only credible financial investor willing to stick its neck out to fulfil all these conditions. Under Gevi's guarantee, the banks are happy enough to reinstate euro credit line," the banker said.
Agusta has chalked up debts in excess of 100 million euros and requires further working capital of 32 million euros. For the 15 months ended March 31, 2005, Agusta registered a net loss of 29 million euros.
Proton's share of net losses, representing 57.75 percent amounted to 16.75 million euros.
Proton has already given Agusta more money than the 70 million euros reported, providing 29 million euros as cash advance to bail out the troubled Italian company.
Agusta dragged Proton into the red for the first time in a decade. Proton reported a net loss of RM154.3 million for its fiscal second quarter ended Sept 30, 2005, hurt by bad debt charges related to Agusta.
In December 2005, the Proton board approved the sale of Agusta to Gevi for one euro, making the transaction its biggest loss on a single investment.
Agusta cost Proton RM503 million, including its acquisition cost of RM367 million back in 2004.
The disposal of the Italian bike maker will not affect Proton's balance sheet as it had fully written off the investment.
— BERNAMA
aiya.. Mitsu… I think P1 shd not hv any ties wit them. Most of their stuff P1 has learned. Time to go for another prey so tt it will BLOSSOM!!!
i dont think proton would like to jv with mitsu again la..mitsu oready bancrupt what?being eaten by another company oready woo…why should we go for them?
oiii…cosmo..wrong topic la….hahahahha…
anyway enough of bullsh*t from bankers…we want proton chairman to explain..
seriously..do u believe everything bankers say?
mitsu just cari publicity la…anyway their lancer no more good than waja…so lousy…everything sucks…does anyone complaint???????
it's BERNAMA news beb……. mostly boleh caya beb…..
mitsu tak mau PROTON tapi mau DUIT proton…….
#
cosmo said,
January 16, 2006 @ 4:22 pm
mitsu tak mau PROTON tapi mau DUIT proton…….
—————————————-
this one boleh pakai…
#
cosmo said,
January 16, 2006 @ 4:02 pm
it’s BERNAMA news beb……. mostly boleh caya beb…..
————————
not trying to flame u…but…bankers,investment banker cakap…just tell them to shut up la…cannot trust one…
ok la hang betui la…… tapi aku lagi percaya kat KARAMSINGHWALIA…….
#
cosmo said,
January 16, 2006 @ 4:43 pm
ok la hang betui la…… tapi aku lagi percaya kat KARAMSINGHWALIA…….
—————————–
hhehehehe..aku asalkan bunyi from media prima tak leh caya…tv3?huh…
yeahh…u agree with param…we want proton chairman to EXPLAIN!
mitsu denies it bcos they knew proton is better than them..our waja is better than their mitsu..they know that we are capable of making our own engine..they should come and learn from us like the old days,the japon dont know how to pick the coconut i tell u..they ask us to pick it for them,they learn from there la..if not makan penampar jipun la my fren..
i dont see the point either shaymen..we can build car chasis which is better than mitsu..we can build engine too…even with cps if mahaleel is still there and budget permits…so why do we need mitsu…mitsu already being sold..their tech so outdated…see the evo..mivec turbo plak…hmmm..so lame…malaysian had been doing that long ago…handling wise..mitsu is going down already…their models are getting lame by the day…
dear param, i'm inclined to believe the news by Bernama, make sense really….in fact an eye opener of some sort..mmmm…
but what i dont understand why proton management so arrogantly, stubbornly denying us malaysian the right to know the truth…so much with the corporate governance, transparent whatever….cakap saje!
another thing param, mitsu got value, to be precise 'goodwill', even a bankrupt mitsu…
if say proton put mitsu engine in savvy instead of clio renault (proton should have insist the engine nissan made!), savvy sales definitely better (although now i heard savvy amt real hot!)
you see, us malaysian really like japanese goods, maybe its in our gene, yealah dulu-dulu tok hatuk engkau, nenek aku pekena penampar jepun…sekarang anak cucu ketagihlah….hehehehehe ;-)
well….
If that is the case with Bernama news…Why did Proton still relectant to reply?
trying to hid something?
Well why not being just frank…say who is the investment banker?
This is just like an hearsay…
Made it much better when stated an investment banker…
Lucky it is not ECM libra
drmuzi
no point following japs la jake…after pak lah sign that free trade with the jap…their cars no tax…might as well malaysians buy their car…same engine la..see la that perodua die after this…
proton decide to go with renault for their technology..hence the amt…yes jake..it's very hot now…
agreed drmuzi…it's just hearsay..put in investment banker…if their decision is so good then proton should come clean…clear the air once and for all la bout mv 2…
Ayo yo….Why discuss about POTONG can build a car better then Mitsu or not? It is not that important of JV issue.
POTONG need the new TECHNOLOGIES or Advanced Technologies to Survive! Like Hybrid, new material, Aluminium body, Patents, FCV, Electric Vehicle, MiEV, VTEC, ASC, without these so-called new Technologies, where got FUTURE?
Apparently, most of these high tech feature had been alraedy patented by these Automaker in the WORLD no way you can copy for FREE like Chinese.
They can SUE you at OVERSEA market!! either you don't Export it or just sell it to NO law countries.
If Only Building WAJA with special edition,….edition,….edition especailly only changing the Leather seat and DVD, I think POTONG will not survive for long. Customers are demanding for Safety and Advanced feature plus Low price! Not Low price but ZAMAN lama punya design.
YAU MOU GAU….CHOR!!
a 20 year old 16 valve DOHC engine technology is Proton's NEWEST TECHNOLOGY la, SeeFu…
i wonder is that actually that the PROTON that miss understanding the first place? i mean, may be the first intention from VW actually is 'take over', not JV? just some though…
so now MItsubishi want to make clear line between them n PROTON? is fair enough… coz they just starting to pust bigger percentage on local market… no benefit if they have any futher relation like JV with PROTON… :D
cheers…
proton only know how to used other people thing to get brand n say there made it, if there made is good, but how if not.
vw is international car maker n there way of culture whit nature of there business is different.
we r 3rd mind mentality.
who 1 there product been do whit not in there spec n monitoring by them.
at the end it will turn like proton story now, this n that blame to vendor. what a stupid minority do business!.
this see fuu…haiyaaa…..so boring…first wants proton to go ahead with tech..but not copy like china..that's why they bought lotus,mv.then u know that for proton to move ahead must get those tech and expertise from others..thats what the japs did last time..now can design their own la..but people like u la say no good..just jv..rebadge..i wanna buy cars cheaply la…no need to pursue any rnd,no need lotus and mv…let vw take over la…but wants new tech…
u say one thing,then u say something the opposite…make up ur mind la boy..
you mou u sorang la..
and hatuk kau la htuk kau..what about the city 8valve single cam engine?is it this year's design?hahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahah
or toyota unser 8 valve…wahhhhh…so new ka?hahahhaahhahahah…check first la…just see the brand then say wahhhh without looking at the specs…3rd world mentality..
haha, param… Unser is not new la… only introduced late in malaysian market when it has already been selling in indonesia as Kijang for a few years. same goes for Avanza… the reason why it came in late compared to our "lesser" neighbours? all of us here knows-lah kan? i never praised that car anyway…
by the way honda city's 8-valves engine are only limited to i-DSi models, while the i-VTECs variants are 16-valves engines…the reason for a limited valve to i-DSi variants are for fuel efficiency and practicality. both i-DSI and i-VTEC operates on dual-sparkplug engine and CVT with 7-speed Steermatic…
but do we see at least cam profiling with the CamPro? rumours are that it has been built and stil undergoing tests in Proton… i wonder how long are they gonna complete it and put it in their product offerings… by the time hybrids technology are the standard in all cars around the world?
well i guess we just have to sit down and wait till the cow comes home.
I heard someone define the 8 valves Single CAM Engine is OLD TECH Engine. It is definately WRONG statement!!!
Questions?
Why valve is used? 8 Valves or 16 Valves or even 20 Valves is no different of Technologies, apparently the Valve is used just for the function of open and close to allow air flow into combustion chamber a the right timing. The number of valves applied is depend on the Cylinder size and engine performance. If 1 valve is sufficient or enough to allow the optimun air flows in and out why needs 4 or Even 5 valves per cylinder??? Same goes wtih SOHC or DOHC.
Also, Can an engine with 8 valves SOHC using V-TEC and all Valves are using composite material installed in an Aluminium Cylinder head and Blocks Engine plus Electronic Control unit for air flow Temperature and humidities applied CALLED as Old engine? The point is 8 valves and SOHC does not define as OLD or NEW technology. ONLY The complete engine design package with better performance can be called as New technology.
Example: if an engine only got 2 Cylinders (660cc) (2×2= 4 valves in total) but the output is the same as V6 engine (3000cc) (4x 6= 24 valves in total) , I think we can call it as NEW Tech Engine and the V6 engine with 24V can be called old. The judgement is not based on the number of Valves apply but it is based on the OUTPUT!! Don't you agreed?
Another good example is the WHEELs on the vehicle. You see Hundred years ago the car got 4 wheels and Tyres, until now the year 2006, our High tech vehicle including EV car still got 4 Wheels and Tyres. But look at the TYRE's technology now it is completely different from 100 year ago. Can you say our car is old technologies because it still having 4 Wheels and tyres?
Back to the topic:
JV is important to share the TECHNOLOGIES example: new Engine technologies, 4WD & AWC (All wheels Control system) from Mitsu. POTONG can only applied the same technologies on WAJA when JV with Mitsu and must continue paying royalty or Wait until the patent protection period expired. (I think Usually a patent protection period is 15 years in USA, but Invetor can extend it for extra 5 years max).
If POTONG don't want to pay Royalty to Anybody:
1) Copy it and sell it to NO LAWS countries maybe at Vietnam or China.
2) Wait until the Patent protection period expired (15 to 20 years later).
3) Buy the Compay and own it automatically.
4) Invent it by POTONG engineer.
5) Buy the patent from Inventor.
6) Someone donate it for FREE to POTONG.
7) Work together with Supplier who own the patent rights.
8) JV with specail agreement (maybe free, but nothing is free in this world they will charged POTONG back from somewhere lah like Technical support bla…bla…bla….methods)
9) Still thinking!!
One of the reason why the Japanese cars are getting better and better like Continental car, because most of the body and chasis design which patented by American and German has been expired. Everybody is free to copy it nowadays.
Now the next battle of patent rights issue are Fuel Cell Vechicle (FCV) and Electric Vehicle (EV) and Hybrids! Therefore the German is working with French and French is working with the Japanese and American just wanna to share the same techologies, with But our POTONG still owning NOTHING in this areas. Only CAMPRO?? :P
YAU MOU GAU….CHOR!!
see fuu go chong what ni insa*e la…unser 8valve tu engine from the 80's lagi la…same with the city…do same reseach la boy….
oii ketuk
u want campro bring old management back la…new management only wants to sell and rebadge like p2…p2 got late tech cos like proton with mitsu…their ori models must be sold in japan first for few years..6 if im not mistaken…just like what vw wants to do with proton..are u happy if we get old cars from vw or mitsu?
admit la that 8 valve engine is the 80's and 90's engine with few enhancement…check the engine code…old tech..rear disc takde…rear suspension lama…so lousy..but still wahhhhhhhhh..
wahhhhhh…..still have fictional essay by those pig huh…..
thats why you need a leader with a vision. Doing RnD means that you're working on something that may (and may not) be in use in another 20 yrs time. Hybrid and alternative energy has been researched intensively from 1973, up till now 40yrs on it still not viable although it look like it will be there maybe in10yrs time.
Proton and other small car makers do not have such capital, in fact they just going from model to model. Thats where NAP (which still on paper) come in. It will provide such capital but then Proton need to have a clear roadmap.
As for Mitsu… it does not make sense to associate yourself with a comp. that just take a massive plunge in its share prices.
I totally agreed that, to explain something in Technical way sometime is very hard to make some Non-technical ppl to fully understand it. Don't worry it is not your fault! Just I don't want to waste my Energy to further explains it! :)
YAU MOU GAU….CHOR!! Cheers!
If POTONG don’t want to pay Royalty to Anybody:
1) Copy it and sell it to NO LAWS countries maybe at Vietnam or China.
2) Wait until the Patent protection period expired (15 to 20 years later).
3) Buy the Compay and own it automatically.
4) Invent it by POTONG engineer.
5) Buy the patent from Inventor.
6) Someone donate it for FREE to POTONG.
7) Work together with Supplier who own the patent rights.
8) JV with specail agreement (maybe free, but nothing is free in this world they will charged POTONG back from somewhere lah like Technical support bla…bla…bla….methods)
9) Still thinking!!
THEN MUST USE 4G18 ENGINE UNTIL 2020 LA…WAIT FOR PATENT TO EXPIRE THEN COPY..HMMM *TUT* BOY…BACKWARDS THINKING..
AND YES…HONDA 8VALVE IS OLD ENGINE..JUST IMPROVE ABIT HERE AND THERE DOESNT HIDE THE FACT THAT'S ITS OLD AND JUST 8 VALVE…USE SAGA LA 8 VALVE ALSO…IF PROTON DOES THAT U KUTUK…HONDA NO PROBLEM..U WANT PROTON TO IMPROVE THIS THAT LA…BUT ONE STATEMENT U SAID MUST WAIT FOR PATENT TO EXPIRE IN 15YEARS TIME
shaymen – please discuss without being so emotional and insulting. this is my final warning.
Glad u're here Paul… i wonder how other readers are gonna put up with this… it's high time something has to be done to protect ur blog… by the way u might've forgotten include its alter ego as well… anyway, looks like u have to be here more often as long as they're are still here.
have a nice day!
o.k guys i m the new owner of new gen2, just wait for my finding, coz i own it!
hey shyamalang….what u can do with ur gen2 is add a fuel regulator,buy an extractor and complete xzos system from r3,buy an cf airbox from r3,buy a camshaft stage2 from r3 and buy the suspension system component with the bumpsteer kit….or maybe u can ask them to remap ur engine system.
the car would be marvellous to drive..
eeeeeeeeee!!!!!!geram betul aku hatokkau ni…see u on the next topic.we will have a proper discussion when ur father is not here..
huhuhuhuh…..looks like ur singapore with a protection from america(paul) and im malaysian…..really funny!but nevermind,i can stand on my own.
SEE FU said,
January 17, 2006 @ 7:54 am
Back to the topic:
JV is important to share the TECHNOLOGIES example: new Engine technologies, 4WD & AWC (All wheels Control system) from Mitsu. POTONG can only applied the same technologies on WAJA when JV with Mitsu and must continue paying royalty or Wait until the patent protection period expired. (I think Usually a patent protection period is 15 years in USA, but Invetor can extend it for extra 5 years max).
If POTONG don’t want to pay Royalty to Anybody:
1) Copy it and sell it to NO LAWS countries maybe at Vietnam or China.
——–is there any market there ka?(param)
2) Wait until the Patent protection period expired (15 to 20 years later).
——–YA RIGHT….we wait then u bash cos of old tech…make up ur mind.(param said)
3) Buy the Compay and own it automatically.
———–lotus and mv?remember…no money making co will sell…simple logic(param said)
4) Invent it by POTONG engineer.
———–campro..gen2,waja,savvy(param said)
5) Buy the patent from Inventor
———-so expensive,we got lotus..gen2 interior got from lotus m250 what.(param said)
6) Someone donate it for FREE to POTONG.
———-small boy's fantasy(param said)
7) Work together with Supplier who own the patent rights.
———–already got lotus…use it la(param said)
8) JV with specail agreement (maybe free, but nothing is free in this world they will charged POTONG back from somewhere lah like Technical support bla…bla…bla….methods)
————that's what tun and TM negotiatons with VW in the first place…azlan screw it up.(param said)
9) Still thinking!!
—–think with other people brain la better..
Shaymen, this is not an internet public forum that is run by software bots where u can simply drop ur pants and shit wherever u like, tanpa malu, behind the anonymity of a screen name.
this is a blog that BELONGS to someone who actually exists and living, who spends his time and effort to share his passion among other ppl. as a guest to his "house", i, and many others should very much respect him as much as u respect the host or house owner who invited us to his place.
if there is an unruly guest at his functions, the host would politely ask the guest to behave or to leave the function. i believe paul knows what to do here.
by the way, i am not in any way hurt by ur childish remarks, it simply shows the person u are. budi bahasa mencerminkan keperibadian manusia. anyway, words dont hurt me. u can go on and post insults and calling names to whoever u want. it's ur problem, not with me…
however as a friendly advice, see a psychiatric. research shows that ppl's online persona turns out totally diffrent in real life. i dont know about u, but i have always been honest to myself. by the way, i recalled there's a saying,
"dont fight with a pig in the mud, in the end, u get dirty, and the pig loves it."
maka, dengan ini saya sudahi dengan serangkap pantun, (ala Karam Singh Walia)
Nobody cares about threats over the internet,
U don't have to try to act hard with the keyboard,
that's so sad.
unless you actually, physically, beat someone
with the keyboard.
then thats ironically, hilarious.
well wishes to evryone else here. it's my wife's birthday today!
hehehhehe…ala hatuk kau…maybe u should't just single out shaymen…as far as i know..ur friend see fuu had gone overboard by using the f word multiple times…nice to know it had been deleted..
hmmm…kepala hatukngkau.
u are right by saying budi bahasa mencerminkan keperibadian manusia…but,you are the one who insult me here for no reason,writing s(tut)id essay to confuse others,bla,bla,bla…
youre the one who is unmatured here because if we started to quarrel,you will find paul for help who would always be on your side for no exec reason..you cant even talk by your own and surely you dont know what the bloody hell youre talking about…
i think kepala hatuk kau,see fu,zahrul shahrin is the one who need to see the doctor because obviously,theres somethings wrong with ur membrane…
i pitty ur wife for being ur wife because i dont think a ppl like u can satisfy ur wife need because ur busy writing essay here…
say whatever u want then…
I have a suggestion over here Hatuk or other ppl, STOP RESPONDING to this SO-called Pig lah……don't get your hand dirty and the war will over!!
How can you expect a PIG to understand your Speech!
I have stop already See!
Back to the topic as Paul request.
YAU MOU GAU…CHOR!! :P
So basically Mitsubishi said NO even before Proton asked them?
thats sad.
well freeze, it seems like that, but do u think Proton would have the face to ask mitsubishi again? i'm not sure though but definitely no reputable carmaker would want to jump in so early since this VW issue… perhaps in later time, or perhaps, maybe some "lesser" asian carmaker? it remains to be seen…
malaysian like japan engine & Cars because malaysia is one of the junkyard for old cars from japan..
kete potong so many.. turbo oso got what.. part ori no need to buy..
those conti cars hard to find.. if buy ori parts oso same as expensive..
Hmmm… How about Subaru? If they still want an asian touch? hehehe…
Read newspaper today that Proton should enter the China market and JV with some of the companies. Well if the big boys don't want Proton, perhaps Proton can find new companies from China. I wonder if Proton JV with some China company, the price will be lowered compared to Malaysian market as China offer a larger market.