Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi claims that the government has stopped Proton’s protective policies because it has started up programs like the Industrial Adjustment Fund which exempts excise duty payment depending on the how much the manufacturer has invested in Malaysia.
“The Government has implemented various measures such as giving incentives and grants, technical training through international strategic partnership, which also benefit the entire industry,” said Abdullah.
Since prices have not really come down in the past few years (manufacturers who wish to keep their strong brand loyalty and perception of good second hand value which Malaysians consider important when purchasing a car will never suddenly drop the prices of their cars because they do not want to anger their existing customers by having their car’s second hand values affected), these non-national manufacturers who have benefited can channel the money into a) increasing specs, b) increasing marketing expenditure to increase sales or c) laugh all the way to the bank.
There has not been and probably will never be any disclosure on which companies are getting duty exemptions, but we can see some form of relaxation in policies here and there. For example, Cam Soh finally managed to start assembling his Chery vehicles here – vehicles which are priced rather closely to Proton’s.
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RM400 million for Proton vendor development
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First!!!
Tomorrow, I will go see if cow can fly or not….
Soooooooo…. wtf is this then??
http://paultan.org/archives/2008/04/18/rm400-million-for-proton-vendor-development/
One is jumping over the moon right now!
Ohhhhhhhhh?? Then wuts this then??
http://paultan.org/archives/2008/04/18/rm400-million-for-proton-vendor-development/
huh
later when almost bankrupt tat time oni gov help proton like gov helping MAS
HAHAHAHA…
What a JOKE…
if they really want to stop protecting proton, what they should do is remove the import duties. then the price of import car will surely drop and proton will die in short time.just imaging a honda civic cost only about 70k.
means no more ‘AP’!!?? … no more 70%-300% excise duty!? no more 10% ‘tax lain-lain’?
PM, u think we all idiot ?
That’s funny. The news is supposed to make us feel happy but it doesn’t. As a matter of fact, I’m kinda pissed since I don’t drive proton. A rebate for Toyota would be lovely. But that just won’t happen.
Don;t forget we have a government who likes to talking COCK ! The whole world knows that we have a “AYAM BRAND” Government.
so what does it mean when the govt stops protecting proton????? i don’t see any difference also….
1st, we are cheated by the G. Then now, we already cheated again by the G along with those greedy car distributor. Boycott?
haha… our friend going to step down also want to make joke :)
OK, I like and find this part funny:
or c) laugh all the way to the bank.
it just shows you’re quite ignorant.
1) the 300% tax has not existed for some time. It has been capped at 160% for cars with big engines. 2.0L cars and below are taxed far less.
2) The tax imposed is on the “factory price” or whatever that means. It’s not imposed on the final price with dealer profits, OTR costs, and shipping charges.
3) Thailand has higher car import tariffs than malaysia (can someone pls confirm this? third party info from a thai friend at uni)
4) Proton cars are taxed too!
5) Proton makes cheap cars, that remain cheaper than equivalent class competitors, because they tend to have less features/tech.
6) A civic will never cost RM70k even if the tax on honda imports is the SAME as the tax on protons. Not only would Honda Malaysia disagree with such pricing, but the simple truth is that it is a more expensive car to manufacture. Dont be misled by internet sites that do not include delivery/registration/plates/stamp_duty/insurance. Understandably, many international (eg. US, Aust) car websites dont include those costs as they vary by state. In general, add about 15-25% to the cost of a new car on a website. A Civic costs at least RM90,000 to own in Australia once all OTR costs are factored in.
By the way Hybrid, Ayam Brand is still a better brand. It should be much worse than that. No protection for Proton? Let’s wait and see.
Stop protecting proton? hmm..april fools day is 1 1/2 months late apparently.
There is no transparency in the BN government. Kind of the same problem with anything attached to BN. So your guess is as good as anyones what really goes on behind closed doors.
If the Government was really serious about this, it would not have waited 25 years, nor come up with “coverups” such as the 400mill aid (er..protect?) to proton parts vendors.
Why are there no cars cheaper than protons in thier respective catagories? Even on face level it doesn’t make sense. Proton as a small volume manufacturer will never get the comparative advantage nor economies of scale to produce cheap cars (Malaysian labour is NOT cheap). On any whim, any of the Japanese (and Korean and Chinese) can best Proton on price alone.
Why don’t Perodua have a 1.5/1.6L sedan? Why are they only selling hatchbacks? Some gentlemans agreement there? I’m sure perodua can pick from a LARGE selection of older EOL Toyotas.
Erm…how about APs? So whats the going price for one nowadays? Tell me that doesn’t atrifically affect sale price? Tell me it does not restrict supply to boost demand and prices?
Artificial barriers /= government protection for Proton?
Proton is just as bad on ripping off its own customers. This is even not including the crap they have been churning out lately. The old saga was selling for 37k. I’m sure they were still making money when they are selling at 27k during its last year.
Not protecting proton…riiiight. And because of this, the entire malaysian car industry has ended up being a big overweight oligopoly with it being quite obvious who benefits from it.
No prized for guessing the rakyat is not the one…..
ezralimm,
its not just about taxes, its about purchasing power too.
yeah civic may costs RM90K OTR in Aussie, but do you know that their people’s disposal income is higher than Malaysians. So Civic is still considered ‘standard cheap sedan’ there compared to here.
—-
2) The tax imposed is on the “factory price†or whatever that means. It’s not imposed on the final price with dealer profits, OTR costs, and shipping charges.
6) A civic will never cost RM70k even if the tax on honda imports is the SAME as the tax on protons.
#2
You should realize that there are taxes imposed on after-taxes price. Say a CBU Alphard (3 million yen) imported at CIF cost RM100K. Import tax imposed say 150%: making the total costs RM250K. Then sales tax is imposed based on RM250K instead of RM100K. See how taxes & duties charged really hike up the prices.
#6
In the US, the cost of purchasing a car may be lower than the MSRP (manufacturers suggested retail price). MSRPs used to be set fairly high by manufacturers, which allowed a good-sized discount, but in recent years the trend has tended towards setting the MSRP closer to the actual market value. Civic’s MSRP is around USD14K-USD25K. U can google the web for further info.
In Malaysia, some dealers factor in costs they have to pay to end financiers for them to offer cheap financing packages (low interest rates, rebates etc).
In Langkawi, the price of Civic is around RM70K, or less if i’m not mistaken.
Anyway, dia mau cakap apa pun boleh la. He must be joking only..
“manufacturers who wish to keep their strong brand loyalty will never suddenly drop the prices of their cars because they do not want to anger their existing customers by having their car’s second hand values affected”
3) Thailand has higher car import tariffs than malaysia (can someone pls confirm this? third party info from a thai friend at uni)
Ans: Yeah its true. Nissan Skyline GTR Godzilla selling RM730k here cross the border are selling RM900k.
Ezralim – I know you like to keep telling people to stop looking at US ans Aus websites as the prices as not true on the road prices. How about we keep things really simple and look at Honda Malaysias website and compare prices in Peninsular Malaysia with Labuan, where the only difference in cost is tax
On the Road with insurance Rm74,800 in Labuan versus Rm113,800 here
For Non National cars, the answer would be C) Laugh all the way to the bank.
Compare Continental car prices elsewhere and you will get an idea of how much it should cost. As someone pointed out, don’t always blame the high OTR prices due to ‘duties’.
Ezralim ….Just a comparison for you
2008 Honda accord (2.0L) – Malaysian Price
Selling Price 137,197.60
Road Tax 378.50
Registration Fee 300.00
Inspection Fee —
Handling Fee —
Number Plate 50.00
Ownership Endorsement Fee 50.00
Total 139,975 OTR w/o Insurance
2008 Honda Accord 2.4L Auto, Cloth seats (Ontario, Canada)
Selling Price $26,290.00
Federal Air Conditioner Tax: $100.00
Fuel Conservation Tax: $75.00
Federal Tax $1,392.75
Provincial Tax $2,228.40
Freight and PDI 1390.00
Total CAD 31476.15
BTW Ontario has no road tax. Only a flat $75 per year plate tax disrespective of CC. THis is included in the sales price. THis is MSRP. You will more than likely get some freebies or discounts thrown in.
= 102,297.00 OTR w/o insurance give and take some @ 1MY to 3.25 CAD.
Not fair to include insurance as Ontario insurance is based on the the driver , not the car
So it there was no “Protection” the Canadian Accord 2.4 will not be 35K cheaper than our local CKD 2.0L Accord. What more do you want to see? This is including TAXES as you are referring to.
I don’t know about you, but 35 to me is quite a large sum of money.
The same 2.0 CKD Accord in Langkawi is 86K. OTR w/o insurance
Can you tell me why we have to pay so much more. Thats right. TAXES.
The 2.4 in langkawi is at 103K OTR w/o insurance, a little more in line as the Canadian 2.4.
4g63t, to be fair, the vendor issue you brought up.. and the “rm400mil” aid is totally unfair and not related to this topic at all.
firstly, the vendors are independent. they are not owned by proton. there are hundreds of proton vendors around, and another thing you either forgot to mention, or are ignorant about the fact, these vendors today supply toyota, perodua, and even honda among others. even my CKD bimmer is using glass made in malaysia.
and the 400mil is not a bailout, nor is it a “aid” as you put it.. its a development fund, and its only passed out to vendors who show potential, and have made the necessary investments in terms of R&D and investment. It because of the investments made by them, they get grants from the govt, paid out from this 400mil fund. Every country in the world does this. It help boost the economy and specific sectors that a govt. wants to grow. why dont you check out how much “aid” the bio tech industry in MY gets.
in fact, I am certain that even honda and toyota get “aid” in the form of grants from teh govt. thats because of the investments they have made in malaysia, not just factories, but manpower..etc.
even stranger is, if proton is churning so much crap out now, why are people buying it? i think you better ask yourself that question before you make a statement like that. there are quite a few choices today out there at similar prices. so why are people buying crap? or maybe because it isn’t so crap anymore?
dear ezralimm,
Ur comparison is irrelevant……if wanted to compare with other nation car prices, then malaysian car prices are damn expensive. a technician can buy camry in US and an engineer can buy persona in malaysia. do u think ur comparison is valid? hahahaha.
BMW,
I have different opinions from yrs, yes it’s truth enough this ‘aid’ may directly or indirectly boost the economy. We as ordinary RAKYAT will never knows how the ‘aid’ distributed. When you said “to vendors who show potential”, its kinda subjective statement as these data/info might be not transparent enough to us. (Mayb this might be my personal issue, as i did not have faith in them)
2nd, from what i observe..(forums/friends and etc) even CKD car quality getting worst in terms of quality. Either something to do with these ‘vendors’ or not, im not the right person to judge.
3rd, why we still buying crap ? if you direct this question to me, i would answer u. I cant afford other brands, indeed there’s other brands capped with similar price tag but most of that with different segment. (Example Suria vs Persona) On other hand, cost for maintenance. As G keen to develop local vendors, this might be one of the reason. Therefore local brand products obtain such previlleges when comes to maintenance/spare parts.
From my point of view, they dun have PASSION to produce a car that benefit us. They build for money.
tec96248, agreed with u…
an engineer in malaysia only earn slightly more than 2.0~2.4k/month
if u are 1st class student, maybe u will get 2.6k (if u r lucky)
how to own a camry when monthly installment already 2k+
too bad, i am engineer too…
shame shame
4G63T DSM said,
May 15, 2008 @ 8:43 am
Why don’t Perodua have a 1.5/1.6L sedan? Why are they only selling hatchbacks? Some gentlemans agreement there? I’m sure perodua can pick from a LARGE selection of older EOL Toyotas.
—————————————————————-
Don’t worry my friend, Perodua will come out with 1.5 sedan in future. It’s in development now….
can one….if the parent is rich, they would present the car for their Engineer son as a “gift” for his first job.
Is this another tactics of our beloved friend to move the rakyat focus of his political situation currently? Well,sadly,it doesnt work,but will make it even worst…
if u said so paklah…soo…trunla harge kete import…barula btol…omong2 kosong…baik x payah..lu la trun takhta…pegi balik tido puas2…
This is what I call “prihatin” Government + “Prihatin” Supplier (for their FTA) = suckare rakyat.
And 1 conclusion…the previous automotive policy has f*@ked up the industry so nicely, they had a hard time rectifying it. AP, execise duty, bumi quota, import duty, sales tax, no. of vehicle exported quota, road tax, toll.
Wow, they can think of so many creative ways to hinder a safe drive home?
But now reduce price…secondary market tank.
Maintain price…. Afta dilemma.
The only solution…. up up and away?
What do you get when politician put a hand in the business world?
You Guys all discuss crapped thing.
Stop talking nonsense.
The G is talking shit. If they remove the protection then all proton and perodua car are subject to Tax and the waja 1.6 should be around 90K.
If this happen then the national car will bankrupt now.
Typical BN..no transparency at all…nxt GE just vote them out or ths talk bout crossing over is true…might sooner they’ll be gone for gud
Asalamualaikum/Hello,
I QUOTE from:
tec96248 said,
May 15, 2008 @ 9:40 am
ys said,
May 15, 2008 @ 10:15 am
Yeah, you guys are right, in Malaysia the real “power horse†(engineers, technicians and other unfortunate professionals) are not well paid compared to their counter-parts (doctors and lawyers). Not to mention the ones who benefit a lot from our local construction industry is the big shot above; I’m referring to that non-technical department such as the management, the “pretty-kid-in-tuxedo†at the sales department and so forth. Most of the money goes into this guy’s pocket and worst still they only need to seat down in the air-condition office. Meanwhile the rest of the actual “Power Horse†engineers and technical will have to sweat day and night just to earn few forken-up 2K Ringgits. Only in Malaysia you’ll find this kind of work oppression. I notice there’re a lot of forumers in here really like to use overseas standards and compare it with ours so, let me give my side of the story.
In most parts of Australia (and I have 6 Australians “Mat Syalleh†working in my firm to confirm the story), the technical people such as engineers, foreman, even the “kuli†are very well appreciated. A simple foreman over there can own a decent 4X4 truck, get married and own a property (duplex apartment the cheapest and so forth). As oppose to Malaysia a simple foreman can only own a modified Yamaha LC 135 or Yamaha RXZ (these are all high-powered “kapchais†although cap-overseas) and rent a room to live. How about getting married? Most of them are not married, even if they are married the wife and kids stays at their hometowns far away from the hard-working hubby. Buying a car in most of these foreign countries are rather cheap compare to ours but the car repair fees are quite high (car accessories and spare-parts are standard but the professional fees is quite high). No wonder most of this “Mat Syalleh†knows quite a lot about car mechanic because they sometimes have to repair their own cars by themselves. Owh yeah, there’s one thing, insurance is optional over there. In Malaysia, we are forced to own one.
Back to the topic, the government wants to “switch off†Proton’s protection? Ada niat disebalik batu ke Pak Lah? Well, everybody knows our current PM is the weakest link in the chain. Even our dear ex-premier Dr. M says so (visit his first ever blog at www.chedet.com). Not to mention Pak Lah’s forken-up spoil brat son-in-law. I wonder how that “punk†and go up so easily? Owh yeah, no point going up there, because the “boat†is already sinking. Haha. Enough said.
i just think everyones going all around a bush with the same arguments, and no one has the facts.
the point is, protons are selling better today than they have for the last 3-4 years.
mofo, your argument on segments just doesnt reflect the actual facts.
regardless of segment, or type of car..etc. people still bought other brands in droves. those options are still there for people to choose today. but strangely enough, people are starting to come back and buy protons again in the tens of thousands.. this is not by chance or a fluke. you make it sound so simplistic and easy.
wtf the meaning of this..? I though it long ago..
yeah, the govt might have stopped protecting proton, but they’re also the one who introduced the NAP and other policies that makes our automotive industry not so competitive…
anyway for all the comparison about car prices overseas, do also add up the fact that in US/Canada the don’t pay as much toll as we do
really comical reading this
BanyakMasukWorkshop, u give Proton light at the end of the tunnel; so much optimism….. but im gonna bring it crashing down. Firstly if Proton is not protected, then its a proper business, like Toyota theyre in the business of making cars. If u have have looked at Proton’s balance sheet or business model (if u can understand that is) ull realise Proton is run by fools. Yes harsh, but any economist or accountant will agree n ill take not arguments on that. Proton is not selling cars in the droves, they are just eating into their own market share. Dun be a typical Bolehlander n look at short term ‘spikes’ in sales. Economically, Protons future position is bad if the current trend is an indication. U know the best part, the morons in Proton could have sold one of the MV Augusta’s assets to recoup losses instead of ‘brilliantly’ selling it for RM1. Who’s gonna answer for these losses? R u gonna pay our taxes?
Useless to talk like politician over here.
No matter what you say, you think our government would care?!!!
I QUOTE from:
Ilove_lamborghini said,
May 15, 2008 @ 2:08 pm
Yes the big “G” do care. That’s why the infamous blogger Raja Petra was jailed in the first place! Kena ISA lagi tu. Kesian.
Really? I don’t think so
Mr SYoh,
I agree with your opinion, and almost everyone working in the technical dept. feels the same way as you do. That is why most professionals are reluctant to come back and practice in Malaysia…
LIAR..liar…liar…later he will tell the whole world…oooh ooh….i dont know and it’s not my fault!! until today, i have been wondering how do they let go MV Agusta for 1 euro. how’s the tender process? anyone?
Just scrap the farking AP or open it to public application. At least the excise and import duty goes into the government. How it is managed, that is a different story. But what pisses me off are those farking scumbags AP holders jacking prices of a piece of paper and these 30k -50k goes into their farking pocket. Not only that, they under value and pay less taxes. They rip both the public and the Government. (Not mentioning how they used to forge papers/documents).
Mahathir says Naza is a success of the NEP AP policy? Give it to any damn monkey the right to hold APs and it too will be a success.
now we can see :
1 – Toyolta will keep stick their price to death including p2.
2 – Upcoming more Importer car company with KJ share (either hidden or not).
3 – Losing billions per year flying RM to japan, german and other.
4 – and.. then maybe we will realized, how selfish we are before and how bad PM is.. (none of he did going to be good for now)
a touch of destruction maybe…
BanyakMasukWorkshop said,
May 15, 2008 @ 12:54 pm
i just think everyones going all around a bush with the same arguments, and no one has the facts. the point is, protons are selling better today than they have for the last 3-4 years.regardless of segment, or type of car..etc. people still bought other brands in droves
—
BMW, While I appreciate some of your comments, I’m going to take this down.
Somethign wrong with this picture you just painted?
Right, Even with cars this expensive (relative to everythign else) and our PDI is at all time low, why is everyone buying new cars? Are we all really so well off?
1) no alternatives (try public transportation for a change)
2) used cars are rojaked to death by shadetree mechanics (ie “can of worms”)
3) jsut how many of these new expensive cars are privately owned or company registered?
4) cheaper interest rates and 0 downpayment schemes.
5) 2nd hand cars are expensive too, and difficult to get loans.
When you said facts, I was assuming you a were going to post total sale numbers for the past 20 years of both Proton and all other marques. Then we can match it to the population/demographics.
Did the market really sold more cars on its own, or the car buying public has gotten larger (ie, the late 70s and early 80 generations are buying thier first new car?) Seriously a lot of my colleagues are having a tough time balancing a car loan AND a house loan. Just how many people making 3k can do that?
I still dont believe in buying a new car, so its moot point for me..i have 3 second hand cars…… (no loan to worry about, cheap insurance = bliss….+ and a larger house than I would have otherwise be able to afford)
Alifz said,
May 15, 2008 @ 10:48 am
—————————————————————-
Don’t worry my friend, Perodua will come out with 1.5 sedan in future. It’s in development now….
—————–
If what you say is true, it begs the question, why so late to the party? Everyone and his dog knows that the 1.5/1.6L sedan market is the most popular. What made Perodua not jump headlong into it, especially it has Toyota/Daihatsu’s platforms at its disposal. I wont be holding my breath for a perodua sedan to be priced anywhere near Proton’s price point. It will be more expensive than the Gen2.
There are a lot more factors than meets the eye. A lot of gentlemans agreements go behind closed doors.
Realeyes…..totally agree with you on malaysian not wanting to come back due to better exposure, competition, pay, benefits, etc. I mean, the “malaysian repatriation programme” is a farking joke! Do you know what the terms they set to cajole?
1. 2 tax free LOCALLY manufacturered car, or bring your registered car(s) back. If you are from a left hand drive country, you can buy a right hand drive car from any country. (pathetic incentive)
2. Visa approval for spouse and children (if married foreigner) (Apa then????)
3. bringing back your personal belongs tax free. (obviously!)
4. Can not leave the country unless you notify the ministry of human resource!!..(almost like jail)
5. Must work in the country minimum 2 years (understandable)
5. Can only sell the car after two years and tax payable against market value of the vehicle at date of sale. (Not really tax free)
Bullshit attractive terms. Firstly..who are you trying to kid buy giving people cars? Not everyone is so hadap for nice cars. Never the crappy “must be locally assembled cars” is another story. Visa for spouses and kids? What kind of stupid incentive is that????? Of course your family should have no problems getting Visas!. Bringing your belongings tax free? Of course la…its understandable.
Yup..thats about it…3 miserable laughable incentives. If you want to bring skilled malaysian back, the gov must provide government low interest loan for buying house, income tax free for 5 years, etc.
4G63T DSM said,
May 15, 2008 @ 8:43 am
If what you say is true, it begs the question, why so late to the party? Everyone and his dog knows that the 1.5/1.6L sedan market is the most popular. What made Perodua not jump headlong into it, especially it has Toyota/Daihatsu’s platforms at its disposal. I wont be holding my breath for a perodua sedan to be priced anywhere near Proton’s price point. It will be more expensive than the Gen2.
_________________________________________________________________________
This actaully because Perodua Licence to produce 1.5liter car is recently approved, and it was like 3 years ago. Yes it’s a bureaucracy thing but Perodua also very slow in R&D even it’s under Toyota subsidary. And do you know First batch of MyVi has problems with engine mounting until it’s engine drop? Toyota engine is actually propriety and manufactured by Yamaha?
Making car is not simple, even adopting another platform you have to re-work back the detailing and specification…to suit back with manufacturer budget..
Ayam Brand is a good brand, infact much better than the imported sardines from Thailand, Japan…don’t be mislead, its way better back home, especially in Sarawak
… or c) laugh all the way to the bank.
LOL.. most likely :)
guys, thanks for correcting and/or backing up my points.
The bottom line is that the purchasing power of malaysians is still relatively low compared to that of first world industrialized countries.The prices are ok i feel, but then again, our wages are far too low .. making vehicles more prized posessions – and hence an emotional topic.
I dont think it’s fair to compare a 50 yr old nation with first world countries*. We have a larger population and we do need to increase our productivity before living standards could approach that of the first world.
… I just watched “guns, germs and steel”. Makes ya think. Wealth has to come from somewhere. Ok some people are going to retort: “petrol! gas! timber!”.. they forget. those resources make up less than half of our exports. Ultimately, we have to move up the value chain in the global economy. If it means manufacturing cars to retain local talent, so be it. If you think other countries dont protect their local car industries you are so mistaken.
As mentioned, thai ppl pay more for imported cars than malaysians. Australia replaces its entire government fleet of Holden full sized sedans every 2yrs/40000km. ..
I think the govt is going to “stop protecting” proton in the sense that they are going to maintain a fair tax scenario… However, proton will still be aided indirectly by “independant vendor assistance” and government purchases. It’s a wise move because the simple minded public wouldnt know that more of their money (taxpayer dollars) can potentially go into subsidizing proton’s existance without arousing too much negative sentiment like increasing tax on foreign cars.
*excluding island states of course :p
badawi thinks we’re idiots…
BanyakMasukWorkshop said,
May 15, 2008 @ 12:54 pm
….. the point is, protons are selling better today than they have for the last 3-4 years.
…..people still bought other brands in droves. those options are still there for people to choose today. but strangely enough, people are starting to come back and buy protons again in the tens of thousands.. this is not by chance or a fluke. you make it sound so simplistic and easy.
————————————————-
hmm… bro, r u suggesting proton had gain ppl trust again? & coz of what?
i’m not an expert but to be fair, i think they did improve by using better quality materials (finishing) in their cars.. starting with Persona… but the durability of the car still in doubts (for me at least)..
i think the main factor for this thousand of ppl ‘come back & buy proton’ again is price… Malaysian already get used to ‘expensive’ proton (which is the cheapest in it segment) & when P1 offer something new with a much better finishing quality & slightly cheaper, ppl will start coming back.. it’s a good strategy… it work (proven)… but do it really mean people start believing in P1 again? hmmm… hard to say (i don’t think so)… coz the P1 buyers (sorry guys :)) most likely ppl who can’t afford other brand.. & of coz b’coz the spare parts slightly cheaper too… maybe we can ask this 40k plus (or more?) Persona buyers why do they bought it in the 1st place for confirmation…
just imagine this, if the price of persona,waja,accent, city & vios in the same price brackets (i.e around 5k diff).. they still want to buy P1? if the answer is YES then u made your point my bro… but i really think the answer is still a solid NO… but i maybe wrong.. let ask them.. hehehe
Maybe real protection is gone, but grants still available. More like its not a compulsory to Help but just a very good to help. The trouble is Malaysia is a small market, no matter how much you sell, you cannot make a big profit. You also need new models every 4/5 year to stay competitive. If you are not selling like 500k cars for one car life time, how are you going to make new models. Without new models, people will not buy your product. Bid dilemma here.
The conclusion is simple.
In a free, competitive market, automakers would be force to use better materials, better production methods and better technology for example in order to remain competitive or be driven out of business. Cars will become cheaper to built, competition will drive prices down and everyone wins.
By protecting Proton, the opposite happens. Proton has a free run of the entire lower end of the market and you couldn’t do anything about it. Sure, their Wira’s were prone to auto gearbox problems and everyone’s power windows would fail. Sure you would complain about it, but unless you’re willing to spend an extra say RM30,000 – 50,000 to move into the next price bracket, you grit your teeth and get on with life, convincing yourself you just had to open your car door at toll booths from now on.
The truth is, you could have gotten a Mitsubishi Lancer or a Mazda3 for the price of a Saga.
As to the mentioned of wages of engineers vs doctors and lawyers:
Again it comes back to simple supply and demand. Around 20 years or so ago, our country needed great technical knowledge and skills and engineers were scarce and in high demand. So, naturally companies had to pay more for an engineer or risk losing potential employees to other companies who were willing to pay higher salary.
The reverse if true for an over-saturated resource. If there are too many engineers out in the market, engineers had to accept a lower pay or risk losing the potential job to someone else with roughly the same qualification but is willing to take a lower pay.
Students now looking at the market with lowly paid engineers will tend to choose other fields of study thus eventually lowering the supply of engineers again. How long until this happens is anyone’s guess. Of course, it is an oversimplification of the market.
Haha come on guys…
From when you start to believe Malaysian government politician’s words. That Mr. PM’s words are merely rhetoric just like what he used to preach before.
The fact is, should the big G REALLY remove the protection in a true sense, with it’s status-quo, Proton is going to be a big loser. They will never can survive to compete independently head-to-head with other established manufacturers.
The government won’t dare to hurt their own selves. Any toddler knows that Proton and Malaysian government are the same entity.
there are quite some reason why proton can’t develop as fast as korean makes.
Proton nowadays lack the support from the local. How can they reduce production cost when the demand projected is not as high as the previous years.
I believe corruption also prevents a company from developing. so you should understand, since most of us here live in this third world country.
Proton lack of competitive package in their car. Compare elantra and our waja. See the technology and package difference. Earning by keeping margin high and less components will not help to attract more customer.
Knight of templar
“the morons in Proton could have sold one of the MV Augusta’s assets to recoup losses instead of ‘brilliantly’ selling it for RM1”
Proton people doesn’t involved in this, the decision was made by the government adviced by the “special advisor” purely to piss off Tun Mahathir and Tg Mahalel. 1 euro of coz only at the surface la, you know la how much they get under the table, commission bla bla…
but i really think that Proton is improved and have done a lot in this 2 years. whether they can survive or not….. about the tax and duty structure, even the opposition party doesn’t comment on it, because they know if they have a chance to govern this country, they will do the same thing, because it is the right thing to do.
>I dont think it’s fair to compare a 50 yr old nation with first world countries*. >We have a larger population and we do need to increase our productivity >before living standards could approach that of the first world.
Do you really think that an environment where people have to grossly overspend just to get cars that are quite average elsewhere, are tied down to 9 year loans, see it all evaporate from depreciation etc. is really helping to achieve this? Perhaps if people didn’t have to spend a disproportionate percentage of an already limited household income on cars and spares, average family savings and general quality of life would improve quicker.
And how many years till Malaysia is old enough to compare? 75 years? 100? 200? How many more asterisks and excuses can people come up with in the meantime?
>If it means manufacturing cars to retain local talent, so be it.
If it really was all about “retaining local talent”, then it should be obvious that
whatever “local talent” is retained by a handful of expensively propped-up manufacturers is miniscule in comparison to the ongoing brain drain that results from discriminatory policies on education, employment, business, and housing.
>It’s a wise move because the simple minded public wouldnt know that more >of their money (taxpayer dollars) can potentially go into subsidizing proton’s >existance without arousing too much negative sentiment like increasing tax >on foreign cars.
Spoken like a true govt minister! lol @ the simple minded public, such fools to expect the govt to actually do what they said they would!
Even if they want anyone to actually believe them about the taxes, there needs to be full disclosure from the government about duty structures and company exemptions, which should come out about the same time as hell’s ice skating rink opens.
Since comparing Malaysia with western countries is considered unfair, let’s talk about our neighbouring countries, our beloved Singapore
Many people I spoke to always say SG very easy to bring up and develop because it is very small and easier to manage. Has anyone thought that SG is so small that they literally don’t have any resources at all? Malaysia has so many natural resources and still our country is in chaos due to government mismanagement.
And lets talk more specifically about cars. Yes SG’s cars are more expensive but for a different reason and that’s to limit cars in the island. But even so, if you compare in terms of how much they earn and stuff it is still cheaper in real terms to buy a car. And don’t forget that SG has more exotic cars than Malaysia.
For sure the tax will not be lifted. The news is just about proton protection is lifted. And so.. we will seeing gov out from proton, and hopefully, it will slowing vanish from our eyes and went into history book for good!
On the other hand, you are still paying the same price for other cars that you seeing, and it will be unlikely to go cheap as well. Not just gov, bank, car dealer, they all want to keep everything as is. If not, people will go crash their car and claim high insurance, and get the money to buy mercedes or bmw already. haha.
We are paying far more for the same car, and we are world top 3 in car ownership. Still we seeing lots of nice ca on the road, and almost everyone own a car now. Its necessary to have tax to limit the cars running out there. Although its painful to hear this, car import tax will be the best practise. You can a bigger car, you got to pay more.
Alifz said,
May 15, 2008 @ 5:37 pm
This actaully because Perodua Licence to produce 1.5liter car is recently approved, and it was like 3 years ago.
——————-
I dont know if you can speak for perodua but,
Why do they need a license to produce a type of car? Are they not already a car manufacturer.
Proves my point exactly.
charles27 said,
May 16, 2008 @ 4:47 am
We are paying far more for the same car, and we are world top 3 in car ownership. Still we seeing lots of nice ca on the road, and almost everyone own a car now. Its necessary to have tax to limit the cars running out there. Although its painful to hear this, car import tax will be the best practise. You can a bigger car, you got to pay more.
——–
Just what sort of logic is this. Are you really serious in trying to justify the high car taxes?
Maybe you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, but do you really understand and feel the pinch that the regular household get saddled with an average car (not large or luxurious) with a 9 year loan?
the bottom line is, within one generation cars have become more affordable to the malaysian public. Talk all you want about the free market, if things were really free with free trade etc etc, i dont think local industries would have stood much of a chance, or we would have been dominated by foreign direct investment to be a production stooge for first world countries. Think Vietnam – they make lots of good quality nike shoes.
“The truth is, you could have gotten a Mitsubishi Lancer or a Mazda3 for the price of a Saga.”
– such perception is false. ask your friends overseas about this.
– both the mazda3 and lancer are significantly bigger cars than the saga to begin with, and are proper 2.0L class small sedans.
– They inherently cost more. RM70k+ in a fair tax scenario. Check langkawi price if you dont believe… normal fair tax price (the same tax proton also pays) will be slightly higher
What a load of crap.
P1 has always been selling cheap cars in Malaysia with less and less specs in the past years.
Airbags – No need airbag la because all P1 owners or potential buyers are Ironman or Wonder Woman…so can save cost….u want airbag I charge you RM3K more.
ABS – No need ABS becoz Malaysia drivers are used to brake at the last minute…so if put ABS then the spare parts sale will be less…u want ABS I charge u RM5K more.
Traction control – No need traction due to Malaysian drivers like to drive very fast in corners becoz most of them thot that P1 cars are designed by bankrupt UK racing company…u want traction control I charge u RM8K
Can’t the Govt see that the price of Malaysian lives is short by RM16K. Our live are that cheap with our national car.
Many lives can be saved if our national cars are better equipped.
Proposal for car industry and fuel subsidies:
1. Petrol tax
2. CO2 Emission tax
These two additonal taxes will solve it all. Petrol tax only applied to car above 1600cc (petrol) and for diesel engine cars it’s for 2500cc and above. RTD stats shows there are 10million cars. Take general rule of thumb of 10%. So assuming 1million cars owned by the rich, impose at least RM30K petrol tax annually (Yes, every year) to make the rich to absorp current govt fuel subsidies (RM20b-RM30b for car users).
For CO2 Emission tax, the less efficient/ less cleaner your car engine the more you should pay. CO2 emission cap is at 200g/ km. Anything above that will cost more, on top on usual engine capacity road tax ruling.
Conclusion:
Govt therefore must make cars below 1600cc as cheap as possible and giving diesel engine cars a due consideration for its fuel efficiency and new generation of clean diesel engine.
The rich must be taxed as high as possible, every year.
So, ready to pay minimum RM30K annual petrol tax for your BMW?
Now Malaysia has to compare itself with Vietnam to feel better about itself? A country that had several wars and Communist government? Yet if people compare M’sia to a more advanced country (or even a city-state) it’s “not fair lah only 50 years old!” Come on now.
And your idea of “affordable” seems to differ from that of most working class families…perhaps you mean they are technically able to buy one provided they hamstring themselves financially with a 9 year loan that probably will leave them “upside down” by the end (remaining loan higher than value of vehicle). But as far as the usual perception of affordable, that their household budget can absorb the cost without unreasonable stress, no way.
“Many lives can be saved if our national cars are better equipped.” now thats short-sighted statement if i ever saw one.
xsaraloeb, a huge majority of accident deaths are contributed by motorcyclists.. even then, by making that statement, you are totally not taking into account, poor road design, bad driver habits, poor training.. etc. etc.. and the list keeps going on and on.
your comments are totally bias. how many other cars in teh market have traction control for example?
i suppose you probably want to pay Rm25k for a proton, with 6 airbags, traction control, and maybe an ejection seat??
Max88,
ur proposal is irrelevant. the rich is already paying income tax higher. the rich buy persona and to pay additional rm30k annually? what’s that? this will create more problems only.
hmm… why’s that almost everyone seam to have a problem with the rich? in every cases … they r human too & most of them ‘work’ their ass to be in that position… to suggest anything that’s reasonable still acceptable & constructive in a way but something like that? bad joke…
no point really..we argue..we change the G and we did all we can..but we still cant save da country…i rather speak about pollution than politics…electric car compared to petrol…waste of time…i really dont know who made the mistake..but there is no one to correct it..
ezralimm,
you are correct…i dont get it why people still argue even if you clearly stated our pricing is ok…not cheap but not really expensive…
make it simple.when you give example about Australian price..someone came up with Langkawi and Labuan…for god sake…LANGKAWI AND LABUAN has ZERO tax….THAT MEANS NO TAX AT ALL!!!!
no point really..we argue..we change the G and we did all we can..but we still cant save da country…i rather speak about pollution than politics…electric car compared to petrol…waste of time…i really dont know who made the mistake..but there is no one to correct it..
ezralimm,
you are correct…i dont get it why people still argue even if you clearly stated our pricing is ok…not cheap but not really expensive…
make it simple.when you give example about Australian price..someone came up with Langkawi and Labuan…for god sake…LANGKAWI AND LABUAN has ZERO tax….THAT MEANS NO TAX AT ALL!!!!
even if its RM 74000 on the road..with minimum tax lets say 25% its about RM 93000..so about RM 20000 about that the actual price that we suppose to pay for a CIVIC even if at that price its still expensive…for the people who earn an average salary..because we are underpaid!!!we are getting third world salary…simple!!we still go back to square one..buying proton or perodua…
so why waste time talking about NAP when most malaysian are still getting third world salary??
when we ask for more…other prices increases too…food,fuel,gold, and so many to name…so tax is not the issue now….because many people who own VIOS,city and etc are buying perodua n proton…because the cant afford to pay the installment…sooner or later we have to think twice to eat breakfast or supper…because even our country’s cheapest food..roti canai has gone up to RM 1 to 1.20….so for me…NAP or protecting proton is not the issue at all…protecting us is more important!!!
if it is a fair tax system then u will see the civic priced 15krm-20k rm higher than an equivalent proton.
and if its a fair tax system in place i think we would witness alot more companies other than toyota honda setting up factory/assembling operations here. if we dont see it, then the protection isnt removed. now if they would have done this earlier….say before honda, toyota, mazda and gang decided to build thier plant in thailand, could have brought the country alot of money.
in my view a corolla or mazda3 is about the same price as buying a proton persona. drive off the show room floor. the extra 3000-4000aussie dollar u saved buying the proton or kia/hyundai is almost evaporated. now that would still be ok if u were owning the car for 1 day. but if ure planning on keeping it for 3-5 years the value of buying the corolla adds up.