What really happened at the Lotus vs Lotus hearing?

What really happened at the Lotus vs Lotus hearing?Both parties painted their own interpretation of whatever transpired at the hearing when it was decided that the trial between Group Lotus and Team Lotus be brought to a full trial in March 2011.

We’ve obtained the full transcript of the proceedings – so now, for whoever’s interested, you can read what actually happened after the jump, between Mr Silverleaf for Group Lotus Plc, Mr Morpuss for Team Lotus and Justice Peter Smith.

Claimant:
GROUP LOTUS PLC

Defendants:
1MALAYSIA RACING TEAM SDN BHD
TEAM LOTUS VENTURES LIMITED
TUNE GROUP SDN BHD
ANTHONY FRANCIS FERNANDES
1MALAYSIA RACING TEAM (UK) LIMITED

MR. MICHAEL SILVERLEAF QC and MR. BRIAN KENNELLY (instructed by SNR Denton UK LLP) appeared for the Claimant (GROUP LOTUS PLC).

MR. GUY MORPUSS QC and MS. PATRICIA EDWARDS (instructed by MacFarlanes LLP) appeared for the 1st Defendant (1MALAYSIA RACING TEAM SDN BHD).

MR. SILVERLEAF: May it please you, my Lord. In this matter I appear with my learned friend Mr. Kennelly for the claimant and my learned friends Mr. Morpuss and Ms. Edwards appear for the defendants.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Do you appear for all the defendants today or are you just doing one?

MR. MORPUSS: Only 1MRT and that is the only defendant to this application, although MacFarlanes and I and my learned junior do represent the other defendants as well.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Yes.

MR. SILVERLEAF: My Lord, this application today before the court is for summary judgment on a single isolated issue arising under the trade mark licence granted by Group Lotus to 1Malaysia Racing (whom I will call “1MRT” for short, if I may) in 2009 to race in Formula One under the name LOTUS RACING. Your Lordship has had a rather voluminous set of papers —-

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: But no reading list.

MR. SILVERLEAF: I am very sorry, my Lord. Have you had the opportunity to read at least the skeleton arguments?

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I have read the skeleton arguments, I have read the pleadings and I have glanced at the witness statements and I have read most of the historical agreements and the 2009 —-

MR. SILVERLEAF: I am very grateful, my Lord. That should speed things up enormously.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I think things could be sped up enormously another way. When are you proposing to have the trial of the rest of the action?

MR. SILVERLEAF: We have, I think, been given a trial window of early next year.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: How long do you estimate the trial?

MR. SILVERLEAF: I think it is 10 days, my Lord. There are two problems. One is, obviously the 2011 racing season is about to start.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It starts in Bahrain, 17th March?

MR. SILVERLEAF: The middle of March, yes. The other is that I think the parties are agreed we need to ask the court to expedite the full trial in any event so that it takes place before the 2012 season.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: No. I think we should expedite it so that it starts before the 2011 season. I think we should have a speedy trial of the whole action before, certainly, the end of March. I think we should set a timetable to hear the whole action then. There are no resource issues in this case, given the schedules of costs that have been provided to me. Let us get it all sorted in one go.

MR. SILVERLEAF: My Lord, obviously I will have to take instructions on that. I suspect my learned friend will as well.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We have had the pleadings. There has not been a reply and defence to the counterclaim yet, has there?

MR. SILVERLEAF: The pleadings are closed. I believe there is still outstanding a request for further information from us to the defendants which has not been answered. Apart from that, I suspect the pleadings are terminated.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I think both ought to take instructions. I am sure we can get this trial on. I have already made inquiries of the Listing Officer and we can get a 10 day trial on this term. It is a shame you did not apply for this back in front of Briggs J in November, but the parties can do it, so far as I can see. There are no resource issues — just for lots of people. That is it.

MR. SILVERLEAF: My Lord, in that case —-

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I will rise if you like and you can both —-

MR. SILVERLEAF: I do not think I can take instructions without your Lordship rising.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: No. It is best I do not hear what you say — good or bad.

MR. SILVERLEAF: Indeed, my Lord. Can we have 10 minutes?

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Have as long as you like.

(A short adjournment)

MR. SILVERLEAF: My Lord, thank you very much for the opportunity to take instructions. Our position is that it is a tough call to do a trial that quickly but we think we can do it and if your Lordship wishes to direct a speedy trial we would be delighted. Obviously, we would like to dispose of this dispute before the season begins and, frankly, if we can dispose of it early in the season that is almost as good. I have to tell your Lordship that the only reason we did not ask for a speedy trial at the outset is that we did not think the other side would agree. I wait to hear what my learned friend says.

MR. MORPUSS: My Lord, much as we would like to see this resolved, with the best will in the world we do not see that it is going to be capable of being resolved by March or even the end of March as a trial.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Why not?

MR. MORPUSS: It is all very well, my Lord, to just throw resources at a case, and your Lordship is right that there are plenty of solicitors and there are plenty of funds on both sides. But we have all seen cases where solicitors simply throw trainees and resources at cases. Unless those are well managed and well directed what one ends up with is people simply running round like headless chickens and it does not get one anywhere.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is a matter of getting resource sorted out.

MR. MORPUSS: It is, my Lord, but simply saying there are endless resources is not the answer. The question is what we can actually achieve in six to eight weeks. The concern —-

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You ought to look at my decision in Re Crowson Fabrics where I directed a trial on the Friday to start on the following Wednesday.

MR. MORPUSS: Yes, but of course —-

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: And it did. That was a lot shorter than this, obviously, but I see no reason why this cannot be put in in six weeks.

MR. MORPUSS: That is what I was going to say to your Lordship. Of course, it depends very much on the case. There are a couple of concerns that we have. One is that this application was made on 20th October last year. If we had been approached then for an expedited trial it could have been approached with a view to seeing whether we could get it on in February or March before the season started — an expedited trial properly arranged and managed. It is the claimant who chose to make this application for summary judgment which we submit, if we get to it, is a hopeless application and the only way of resolving this is a trial. Because of their application everyone has been focused for the last few months on that. As far as the other four defendants go that I act for, we have not been focusing at all on the rest of the case beyond pleading out the issues in the pleadings. It has all been focused on dealing with this and we have not been off exploring the evidence that we need to produce. My learned friends have turned up with Mr. Monk, the Group Lotus employee from 1978. He criticises my side for not having an equivalent. We have approached some other witnesses may be able to call but we are at a very early stage in those inquiries. We can get on with those but trying to do it in a matter of weeks is going to be pretty difficult, my Lord.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The history is very interesting but the history involves examining the chains of devolution of the various marks through various companies and through various agreements, does it not? That is the primary issue as to whether or not the defendants have an independent right to use TEAM LOTUS, is it not?

MR. MORPUSS: There are two limbs to it, my Lord. Your Lordship has rightly identified one of them, which is whether the chain of agreements passes through Mr. Hunt to my clients. But there is another limb to it which is the one that my learned friend takes in his skeleton on this application, which is whether the goodwill in TEAM LOTUS and Group Lotus is divisible or indivisible. That is a central question on the historic relationship between the two companies. No one has bottomed that out yet. Your Lordship has looked at the 1985 agreement and one of the things that appears in the 1985 agreement is a reference to a 1986 agreement. There is some suggestion in the papers that things changed after 1968, in the same agreement, that after 1968 there was a clear separation of the companies.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Mr. Hunt is still around, presumably, is he not?

MR. MORPUSS: I believe so, my Lord, yes.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: And Mr. Hunt has been around during the whole of the period of these operations. You will be able to speak to Mr. Hunt. He has sold his interest in the companies, presumably for some money, and he will, no doubt, co-operate with Mr. Fernandes. Given Mr. Hunt’s stated belief that since 1995 he has been trying to get TEAM LOTUS back on to the Formula One front, he would be very keen to see this happen, would he not?

MR. MORPUSS: One would have thought so, my Lord, and it is likely he can give some helpful evidence from that period onwards.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: My view with these things is that if we pick a date and we say the trial will start then and we set a timetable and we police what goes on between now and then — it is no good looking backwards and saying, “But the claimant could have made an application earlier.” That is gone now — if there are any difficulties what I do with cases like this is I police the operation of the order to ensure that it happens.

MR. MORPUSS: Of course, my Lord.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is very difficult for parties, in my view, to come to court and say, “We have got this big point to be decided before the commitment of the Formula One season” and then, when they are offered a chance to have the case heard, say, “Ah but we want to kick it into the long grass for another year”.

MR. MORPUSS: My Lord, it is certainly not our desire to kick it into the long grass but we didn’t come to court saying, “We want to have this resolved”. It is my learned friend’s application for expedition which Briggs J granted. I am not trying to be difficult, but I am simply looking at the practicalities of —-

MR. SILVERLEAF: With your consent.

MR. MORPUSS: No, without our objection. We did not consent to it, if it matters. But, my Lord, there is also the question of disclosure. What is going to happen is that there are a lot of documents to come out of Group Lotus. If disclosure is going to be done in a matter of a few weeks, inevitably there will be arguments about what is proportionate to do in the disclosure exercise and, given how important the history is and how important it is to dig out documents where there are not witnesses —-

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I had the same arguments in the Candy Bros. litigation last year when they told me in March they could not possibly meet a trial timetable in May. I rejected that, I set a timetable and the trial was heard in May. Their arguments there were the same point: thousands of pounds of documents hidden away in various places and disclosure cannot take place. My view is that we set a timetable, the parties approach it with their best endeavours and if there are any difficulties then you come back to me on a liberty to apply provision and we will see where we are going. I firmly believe the parties should make an attempt to have this issue resolved before the Formula One season starts this year or has gone too far.

MR. MORPUSS: My Lord, could I just pick up on that last point which is getting it resolved before the Formula One season starts. The season, I am told, starts on 11th March in Bahrain and then it moves on to Melbourne at the end of March.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: And then there is a bit of gap.

MR. MORPUSS: On 8th April they are in Malaysia and then, on 15th April, in Shanghai. The concern we have is that from early March onwards, when the team have all gone out there, everyone is going to have disappeared and in terms of witnesses that we need from the clients or witnesses from Formula One, they are all out in the Far East for a couple of months.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The only area where you are likely to have witnesses is over the allegations concerning the 2009 agreement as to whether or not it was broken by your clients or not and whether the claimant broke it.

MR. MORPUSS: Yes, my Lord.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Once again, we can always adapt, in the modern world, to the hearing of evidence in the modern world to the hearing of evidence by video link or an appropriate timetabling of the case. I firmly believe that parties have a right, and, of course, have a duty to have their dispute resolved quickly and, given the importance of this case, I think it ought to be heard, if possible, sometime in March. You might lose two. It may slip into April. But the vast bulk, subject, of course, to anybody’s right to appeal (but that is a different story, that is not my concern), of the Formula One 2011 ought to take place with at least a first instance decision as to the rights between the parties. That of course, also assumes that the parties do not become sensible in the meantime and negotiate a settlement. Speedy trials concentrate people’s minds in that regard as well.

MR. MORPUSS: Of course they do, my Lord. May I add one other point, then, my Lord, which is this. An application of this sort is not going to resolve the use of TEAM LOTUS by my learned friend in the 2011 season. It is not the purpose of this application that his team can use the name TEAM LOTUS. All the entries have been made for the Formula One championships. They are sponsoring the Renault Team who have to use the word “Renault” in their name because that is their chassis name. So even if there is a speedy trial it is not going to result in my learned friend being able to use the name TEAM LOTUS this season.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Has he got an application to do that?

MR. MORPUSS: No. That was my point, my Lord.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: No. The whole point is stopping you using it, is it not?

MR. MORPUSS: Yes. That is what they want to do. It is a dog in the manger application. They do not want to use it themselves. They want to stop us using it.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is a commercial dispute between two commercial organisations as to their respective rights. This regularly happens. No doubt there will be the prospect of money changing hands one way or another as leading to an inducement to resolve the dispute. If they have a right to stop you using TEAM LOTUS, they are entitled to seek to exercise it. Equally, if you have a right to use TEAM LOTUS, you should be able to do that free from them.

MR. MORPUSS: Yes.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I am giving both sides an opportunity to have this resolved now rather than later.

MR. MORPUSS: My Lord, as I say, we are keen to have it —-

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: If you do not have that and it goes off to another year and there is no application by the claimant for interim relief, you will then have, hanging over the 2011 season, the question as whether or not your clients, legitimately, are entitled to use TEAM LOTUS. If, at the end of next year, the court determines you were not, then there are going to be all manner of arguments about the relief, is there not?

MR. MORPUSS: My Lord, as I said, we are enthusiastic about getting it resolved early.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Good. I am glad to hear it.

MR. MORPUSS: But we would like it to be done in an orderly way and we feel that March is too soon. From our point of view, if we win the trial, we want to stop them, for example, using the black and gold livery of TEAM LOTUS which they use —-

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Have you claimed that in your counterclaim?

MR. MORPUSS: That is something that we need to amend, my Lord, because it has only happened after our last round of pleadings was served. If we get into a discussion about directions, that is a direction I would ask, for leave to amend the defence and counterclaim to bring that claim. My Lord, the reality is that if you order this we will work towards it with the best will in the world but we may be coming back in a few weeks and saying it is just not possible. But, obviously, if your Lordship wants to have a trial in March we will do what we can.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I will, of course, entertain applications, by either side if they come and tell me, “The timetable is so strict that I cannot fairly present my client’s case”. I will not force a trial if it is going to an injustice in that way, but I do believe the parties ought, at least, to make a serious attempt to have a trial as early as possible in March.

MR. MORPUSS: The final point, I would say, my Lord, is we have not been able to take any instructions from the clients and the points I have been putting to your Lordship are simply the considerations that the legal team has come up with. Our clients are out in the Far East, obviously.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I understand that. They are all probably safely in bed now.

MR. MORPUSS: Yes.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I would, in any event, give you liberty to apply on 24 hours’ notice back to me on any issue. That is my standard case management direction anyway. Given that, we need a timetable for a speedy trial, do we not?

MR. SILVERLEAF: It would appear so, my Lord, yes.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: If we look at March and you want 10 days, a start on either the 14th or 21st March would be a good idea, I would have thought. I think it is probably optimistic to say that we can start it for 10 days before that first Formula One in Bahrain.

MR. MORPUSS: In the interests of having the extra week, I would go for the 21st, my Lord.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: What do you say, Mr. Silverleaf, 21st start?

MR. SILVERLEAF: Would your Lordship just give me one moment. (Counsel took instructions) Yes, my Lord.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: 21st March?

MR. SILVERLEAF: 21st March.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: 21st March for 10 days. Do you want to attempt to agree a timetable between yourselves first?

MR. MORPUSS: I think that would be more sensible, my Lord, yes.

MR. SILVERLEAF: I am sure we can, my Lord.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Yes, adding a clause, my standard clause, which is: “Liberty to apply to me at ten o’clock on any day, subject to my availability, for 30 minutes on two business days’ notice or less if urgent on any matter arising out of this order”. I am not suggesting the case comes before me at trial. I suspect it will probably go before a different judge given the IP issues, but there is no reason why I should not at least drive through the case management to trial. That is a very important provision. My experience over the years has been that that stops people taking silly stances because they come in front of me and I shout at them.

MR. MORPUSS: I am not sure we have time to take silly stances on this timetable, my Lord, anyway.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I believe in this timetable but it is when things disappear into correspondence. Do not get involved in correspondence about issues. Come and see me informally on that liberty to apply. Take as long as you need over the directions. I will notify listing that that is the time you are aiming for.

(A short adjournment)

MR. SILVERLEAF: My Lord, we have a provisional timetable subject to your Lordship’s approval. Unless you want to, you do not need to write it down. We will prepare one.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Yes. I am just listening.

MR. SILVERLEAF: The defendants should have leave to amend their counterclaim by 28th January. We would have liberty to amend the reply and defence to counterclaim in response by 4th February. Disclosure on the 14th. Inspection on the 16th. Witness statements on 7th March. Trial on the 21st. If your Lordship is happy with that, the parties are.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Is no expert evidence going to be called?

MR. SILVERLEAF: Not as far as I can see. This is a case which turns entirely on fact.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The only areas possible — No, I am not going to encourage you to think of expert evidence.

MR. SILVERLEAF: I am very pleased to hear that, my Lord. Subject to your Lordship’s approval —-

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Yes. The only add-on I would have is that skeleton arguments, reading lists, bundles, lists of authorities should be lodged by, shall we say, Wednesday the 16th and make Monday the 21st a reading day for the judge. And put my liberty to apply provision in.

MR. SILVERLEAF: I am sorry, my Lord. I was taking that as read. I do apologise.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I have spoken to listing and Mr. Bell is very happy to have you in on that day.

MR. SILVERLEAF: Excellent.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Costs reserved?

MR. MORPUSS: My Lord, the effect of this is that the summary judgment application is not going to be heard and was a mistake to have been brought.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: No. You can have that argument at the end of the trial.

MR. MORPUSS: Okay, my Lord.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: If you ever reach that stage. The only other thing is that dreadful word “mediation.” Is there any prospect of a mediated settlement in this case? I would suspect that the only possible time for mediation is after you have had your disclosure and exchange of witness statements. My experience is mediation does not take place when everything is still inchoate. Maybe I do not need to say to such an experienced team of lawyers that they should think about settlement before they spend 10 days in court.

MR. SILVERLEAF: We have and we are, my Lord.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: What, you are experienced and you have discussed it?

MR. SILVERLEAF: We have thought about settlement and we are thinking about it.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Right.

MR. SILVERLEAF: One always does.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Not always. We sometimes have lengthy cases which attract comments about tanks and things. Very well. If the order can be e-mailed to my associate and my clerk, I will sign it off.

MR. SILVERLEAF: Thank you very much indeed, my Lord. We are very grateful to your Lordship for both suggesting and directing —-

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The other thing that occurred to me is this. You are going to maintain the status quo in the sense that the defendants are going to be able to enter the existing Grand Prix that will take place before the trial as they have registered, presumably, and with all rights reserved in respect of that?

MR. SILVERLEAF: Yes, my Lord, subject, obviously, to an agreement to the contrary between the parties, whether temporary or permanent. Also, we are both subject to the rule of Formula One management. If Formula One management say we can or cannot do something, either of us, then we are not able to gainsay that because they are in control.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: They are not going to stop the defendants because the defendants are already registered to participate, are they not?

MR. SILVERLEAF: I think that is right, my Lord.

MR. MORPUSS: Yes, that is right, my Lord. We are already registered. It is too late —-

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: And not calling yourself “Lotus Renault” are you, or anything like that?

MR. MORPUSS: We are not, my Lord, no.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The claimant is not calling itself Lotus Renault?

MR. MORPUSS: It is, yes.

MR. SILVERLEAF: We are.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You are?

MR. SILVERLEAF: Yes.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: There are going to be two Lotus ones there.

MR. SILVERLEAF: That is why we are here, my Lord.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Both wearing the same logo?

MR. MORPUSS: Slightly different colours, my Lord.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: There will be some very valuable memorabilia available, will there not, if some of these come out in the first part of the season? I had a case like that concerning football cards. I had stopped a rival football cards case and they left an original one because I granted an injunction stopping them selling any more. Unreasonably, they asked for the original back.

MR. SILVERLEAF: Suddenly acquired added value.

MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: My former clerk’s son looked interested. Very well. Thank you very much.

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Comments

  • Lotus is Lotus la.. why make it to a new logo.. team lotus? back to original please.. where’s the copyright?

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    • frossonice on Jan 26, 2011 at 7:28 pm

      You obviously don’t know much about Lotus history, do you?

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      • bryan jones on Jan 26, 2011 at 8:50 pm

        for sure the real “successful” Team Lotus not at the back of the grid!!

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        • frossonice on Jan 27, 2011 at 9:32 am

          I was referring to rynn statement about the logo. He was implicating that TL lotus is a copycat of Lotus logo. Aiya… try to understand first la before whacking me.

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          • akmal on Jan 27, 2011 at 8:55 pm

            yeahh TL is copycat of Lotus logo…for sure last grid this season..really excited to watch them this season hahahahah

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      • tell us what u noe about Lotus?

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  • Ronan on Jan 26, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    I kinda like the end of the manuscript, where they were discussing on memorabilia and football cards :P .

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    • makoi on Jan 26, 2011 at 11:59 pm

      how to read all la like this :) so boring

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      • The summary

        Team Lotus had filed an application for summary judgment. However the judge think that the matter should go for full trial and he fixed the date on March and the trial will take around 10 days.

        GL QC agreed to the instruction however TL QC did not as according to him, TL will not have much time to make the preparation since there will be a lot of documents involve. Furthermore, much of their time had been wasted for the summary judgment.

        The judge insisted and at the end TL QC agreed. Since the summary judgment application was not heard, the issue of cost (for the summary judgment) was dicussed and the judge told them that the issue will be heard after the end of the full trial.

        The judge also told them to go for mediation which both parties have indicate that they will.

        The end

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        • frossonice on Jan 27, 2011 at 10:28 am

          I thought this summary judgement was requested by Group Lotus?

          MR. SILVERLEAF: My Lord, this application today before the court is for summary judgment on a single isolated issue arising under the trade mark licence granted by Group Lotus to 1Malaysia Racing (whom I will call “1MRT” for short, if I may) in 2009 to race in Formula One under the name LOTUS RACING. Your Lordship has had a rather voluminous set of papers —-
          MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: But no reading list.

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          • Sorry my mistake . It was indeed requested by GL. to many lotuses..Team Lotus, Group Lotus Restoran Lotus etc

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        • SeriuosSAM on Jan 27, 2011 at 10:40 am

          it was GROUP LOTUS who filed for summary judgement

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        • ignoramus on Jan 27, 2011 at 10:46 am

          Hard to read. Maybe the judge asked them to go for ‘medication’ instead. LOL

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  • ilyas on Jan 26, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    This is a very interesting read. The judge certainly has some knowledge of dispute. Just by reading the transcript u can sense the Lords intelligence. His sense of humor is also a welcome. He commands respect !!

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    • navin on Jan 27, 2011 at 12:35 am

      He obviously didnt know that there were gonna be two lotuses on the grid!

      the funny part was this:

      MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The claimant is not calling itself Lotus Renault?
      MR. MORPUSS: It is, yes.
      MR. SILVERLEAF: We are.
      MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You are?
      MR. SILVERLEAF: Yes.
      MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: There are going to be two Lotus ones there.
      MR. SILVERLEAF: That is why we are here, my Lord.
      MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Both wearing the same logo?
      MR. MORPUSS: Slightly different colours, my Lord.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • AbeKL on Jan 26, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    hello there,

    i’m not familiar with law’s transcript but really interested to know the true story of what has happened from the neutral perspective aka the reader and not a statement from PROTON or Tony.

    Can someone summarize.. please.

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    • Tiadaid on Jan 26, 2011 at 9:20 pm

      Long story short, Tony Fernandes still have to go to court on March 21. The case was not thrown out, unlike the wording on his press release.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • trav_da_man on Jan 26, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    I wonder will majority of blind bashed in this place will understand this? Heck they will boo whatever TF quote or plan to……..

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    • osh_kosh on Jan 26, 2011 at 8:24 pm

      hmmm… after reading the transcript a couple of time, to my understanding, as a layman, it is quite clear that GL is right… press release by 1MRT r misleading & not suggesting the true nature of judge’s decision… kinda funny, why r they doing that? :)

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    • bryan jones on Jan 26, 2011 at 9:14 pm

      well, a liar telling lies to others.. so we boo

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    • trav_da_man on Jan 26, 2011 at 9:43 pm

      My bad, its blind basher.

      Still I believe 90% of blind bashers wont understand the whole content. Just pakai say “thumbs down” to anything good to TF and TL…..shame

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      • osh_kosh on Jan 28, 2011 at 1:20 am

        like u did now lah.. u don’t understand the transcript eh Mr Blind supporter?

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    • blind supporter

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      • ayuarjuna on Jan 27, 2011 at 10:48 am

        yeah… obviosly a blind supporter, i doubt he himself read the transcript… or perhaps just read without trying to understand the content…

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  • pantsonfire on Jan 26, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    Certainly contradicts TL posture that it was what they wanted. When directed by the judge, Silverleaf QC (the GL Lawyer) had about two sentences of reservation and said ok its great, lets do this.

    The TL lawyer (Morpuss QC) by contrast was waayyy more resistant to early trial and came up with every excuse under the sun to dither and procrastinate. The judge is a champion…….. just bosses them around like kids.

    this blog should have a poll on who wns……

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  • Paul! New Pagani is out!

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  • akmal on Jan 26, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    huh..why TF choose F1 as a place for making money!!!!! F1 is only for people that love cars!! Please go back to your place!!just manage all your aircraft because you are not qualified to join F1. Give back the Lotus logo to Group Lotus!! I really annoyed with TF statement with their case in Bristish court..He seem like really confident to win eventhough he is actually the real thief…I really confident team Lotus will be at last post this season..let watch what happen 2011..

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    • I dont think you really know TF plan… what he wants i Brand..how he brand airasia by sponsoring MAn U team, few years ahead of Air Asia X, now he sponsors US Football Team, eventhough no AIr Asia flight to US. He believe in Brand…. why SOny product cost more than Samsung? Why Honda cost more than Toyota?
      You pay for the branding… F1 is good for brand exposure…. he wants to brand his Tune group… Tune Talk, Tune Hotels, Tune Money etc.. all tune now….

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      • Tiadaid on Jan 27, 2011 at 12:48 pm

        Then why tussle of the Lotus name right? Lotus have no association with AirAsia or the Tune Group.

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        • He already buy the name and David Hunt don’t want to sell the name to the greedy group lotus and proton.

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          • osh_kosh on Jan 28, 2011 at 1:16 am

            check your fact la ‘vee’ oii… David Hunt want & try to sell but GL/P1 don’t want tu buy la…

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          • Then why not GP but long time ago? why after Tony Fernandes buy the name..then they also want piece of the name? Group Lotus never are the Team Lotus.

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      • akmal on Jan 27, 2011 at 8:59 pm

        hell you!!!Then please go away from F1 if u just come for making money!!F1 for people that love car!!!pity to you!!

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        • Then go away for Proton if you want to make money!!! F1 if for people that love f1 car and racing like the Tony Fernandes who love Team Lotus since kids.

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  • 2fast on Jan 26, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    A very interesting read. The judge wanted things to move quickly and wanted the trial to start in 2 months time but was resisted strongly by Team Lotus QC who seemed to want it to be held much later in the year. Luckily the judge prevailed so we can hear some Malaysian spiced English court room drama soon during the start of the 2011 F1 season.

    Lotus Renault may have to change their black-gold livery if Team Lotus wins this case.

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  • 1Malaysia2020 on Jan 26, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    I’m not trained in law, but from reading the transcript over and over again, i think Team Lotus did not expect the full trial to begin so early (in March). They as the judge said “want to kick it into the long grass for another year” meaning to delay the full trial until season 2011 is over. This is probably in case should they lose the trial in wont affect the cost associated with the car’s livery, advertising and promotion. Not to mention have to rebrand the team midway in season 2011. By reading the transcript you will be able to notice that Groups Lotus lawyer appear to be more relaxed and have no issues with the early full trials.
    IMHO, I’d say Tony Fernandes press statement was a bit inaccurate. He probably didn’t have the time to read the transcript and only hear from his lawyers over the phone from his cosy bed… the judge didn’t throw or dismissed the summary judgement application made by Group Lotus, instead he push it back to the end of the full trials

    MR. MORPUSS: My Lord, the effect of this is that the summary judgment application is not going to be heard and was a mistake to have been brought.
    MR. JUSTICE PETER SMITH: No. You can have that argument at the end of the trial.
    MR. MORPUSS: Okay, my Lord

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  • mmouse on Jan 26, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    Reading through the transcript above…. a local court scene crossed my mind… the time when our prosecutor crossed examining Dr Porntip in TBH case… I can only say one thing… Malaysia Boleh!!!!

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  • 2 x 5. In the real race, both will be struggling at the bottom rung anyway.

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  • looks like the 1MRT was requesting for slight delay.

    .

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  • Simon Templer@ Seman Tempe on Jan 26, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    What Simon says …In the history of civilization, the language of the lawyers, accountants and politicians are not meant for human consumption.I suppose we will understand more and emotionally appreciative when we watch ” Kuch Kuch Ko Ta Hai “, I watched the Hindi flick 10 times and cried all the time , .

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  • mspfaz on Jan 27, 2011 at 2:38 am

    It is very interesting. Totally different from what was previously described by Tony fernandez (http://paultan.org/2011/01/25/team-lotus-to-start-2011-formula-1-season-as-team-lotus-high-court-sets-full-trial-date-for-march-21/) . The best is to read the original transcript rather that listening to manipulative statement by the involved personnel. Totally the opposite of what TF said in his previous statement. Kudos to Group Lotus….

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  • Corona Beard on Jan 27, 2011 at 3:58 am

    Some interesting banter going on here: http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?s=4839183db3318de7e9432855429f702d&showtopic=141544&st=0

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  • dholtuku on Jan 27, 2011 at 5:50 am

    To me, it is an idiotic pursuit. Put 100 lotus cars on the track and if not a single one able to win 2011 title, might as well don’t race at all. If all they get is media attention to the case, then it will be put is F1 history as a case of racing for brand name and not for the spirit of F1. Stop arguing and combine your effort to help each other out to create the best possible chance of winning F1. THEN and ONLY THEN I will praise your effort of defending your brand. Let me ask the two parties a comparison question, are you satisfied just to be in F1 OR to be the best in F1? Seems now both of you are making a mockery to the historical brand name and already showing your typical Malaysian attitude. STOP IT. F1 is for people with passion and full of respect to the institution.

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    • ayuarjuna on Jan 27, 2011 at 11:24 am

      tell me how can everyone win when going into a race? there’s a winner & that’s it, that’s why it called race, to see who’s the best… you point of better not race at all if can’t win is ridiculous & contradict with your statement of just leave F1 to the people with passion. where’s the passion for F1 if u didn’t even want to race without any chance of winning???

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    • rally_fan on Jan 27, 2011 at 12:21 pm

      i dont see why lotus has to partner with tony f. both have different agendas. Lotus as a car company is trying to build their brand and products up to the level where they can challenge porsche and ferrari (big dreams no doubt), and they believe F1 is an avenue that can help them achieve that.

      as for tony, im not sure exactly what he is trying to do.. please can someone tell me? if his pursuit is to help his other businesses, or give more opportunities to malaysians in F1, and or to instill the 1 malaysia spirit in our youth , etc. etc. kudos to him, but I believe he can do it by using any other team name and not specifically team lotus.

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      • Tony Fernandes is a fan of Team Lotus since childhood. He had buy the name and Proton should give time to Team Lotus to prove their abilty.

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  • Emmert on Jan 27, 2011 at 7:31 am

    erm…. i think better TF just let Team Lotus, or Lotus or whatever name go…. and just cont as 1MRT+AIR ASIA…. and let the better team use the Lotus….. i hate to see Lotus at ended season without any points….

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    • They are at the first year..of course they cant get a point la fool..!

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      • ayuarjuna on Jan 27, 2011 at 12:59 pm

        yeah.. in 2nd year they aim to challange the midfield’s teams, even to the extend of beating one of the top midfield team in 2010 (i.e Renault).. of coz they can’t la fool, it’s their 2nd year! even Force India take a couple of years to be in the midfield & they didn’t even start the team from scratch…

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        • team_lotus fans on Jan 27, 2011 at 2:07 pm

          Nothing is impossible..but sure they will get a point la fool..they already prove that from scratch they can be best of new team..so not possible they will be more faster and challenge Lotus Renault ( or better called Renault). It not yours team la. Lotus just become the only title sponsor and Group Lotus just steal the other f1 team. What a coward..

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          • ayuarjuna on Jan 27, 2011 at 4:35 pm

            yeah right.. what make u so sure that they will get a point (or points) la fool?? i know, coz if it’s TL then nothing is impossible.. but if GL then it’s a joke to set a terget to outsell Ferrari lah, itulah, inilah… what a bunch of fool..

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          • team_lotus fans on Jan 27, 2011 at 6:09 pm

            It is not Group Lotus. It is still Renault which is own by Genii. Group Lotus was just a title sponsor. They thought they can steal other f1 team but they can’t.

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          • osh_kosh on Jan 27, 2011 at 9:14 pm

            errr.. May i know what you mean by stealing other F1 team??

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        • Emmert on Jan 27, 2011 at 2:07 pm

          yeah i know we are a new team and last year is the 1st appearance. do read my statement clearly… “i hate to see lotus ended season without any points”… yeah, my statement more alike a provocative one, but please… do understand what i try to say… and to be honest… i didn’t think TL will perform superb this year.. maybe a slight better than last year..

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          • Then we just gonna wait and see..Let Tony bring back the spirit of racing and i’m sure they will doing superb this year…

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  • ahmadzul on Jan 27, 2011 at 8:10 am

    It was refreshing to see a judge wanting an early trail as opposed to so many lengthy trials everywhere. i agree to the above where the quicker it is resolved, the sooner the respective parties can concentrate on their activities, be it racing, money making or managing among others, an airline company that is supporting Malaysia n Malaysians, directly & indirectly.

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  • akmal on Jan 27, 2011 at 9:13 am

    Huh TF is a great cheater.He try to manipulate everything to make people go at his side.WTF TF…people are clever than u are expect. Again F1 is not a place to you for making money.it is a place for people that love cars….

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    • SeriuosSAM on Jan 27, 2011 at 11:24 am

      oh boy…. if you know nothing just watching spongebob squarepants

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      • F1 Dreamland on Jan 27, 2011 at 3:38 pm

        Bagi le kami peluang to learn something by reading comments from you, car expert. Then only we go and watch spongebob.. ok kan?

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    • Sir Tony Fernandes love car la fool..he do it for the spirit that Colin Chapman bring beginning at f1…

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      • ayuarjuna on Jan 27, 2011 at 1:03 pm

        i thought he said he love football?.. oh well, maybe he love everything that he think can make money.. :)

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        • team_lotus fans on Jan 27, 2011 at 2:00 pm

          Group Lotus and Proton also make money what..lol..but at least TF didn’t involve with making loan and using people money for their greedy purpose..

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          • ayuarjuna on Jan 27, 2011 at 5:01 pm

            Not involve with making loan?? LMAO all big firm/company has big loans… and he still has ‘hutang’ with airport taxes…. hundreds of millions if not mistaken…..

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          • team_lotus fans on Jan 27, 2011 at 6:13 pm

            At least he not involve in rakyat money and better than proton which waste the people moey. Tony use his company money to invest and get the money back but Proton with their ugly car?..nothing..

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          • cheti on Jan 27, 2011 at 8:57 pm

            dey,

            What TF owes in the airport taxes are Rakyat’s Money !! .. yeah, he may not be using rakyat money in F1 .. but he did not return our money in term of taxes to our coffers ..

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  • confused on Jan 27, 2011 at 9:57 am

    dayum… i wanna buy the movie right to this thing!

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  • Love2hate on Jan 27, 2011 at 10:57 am

    I’ve been reading the many posts in paultan and frankly am amazed at the type of low level mentality running rampant, bashing high profile personalities and entities you love to hate. It is not just about the Fernandes or Bahar attacks but others as well. However the comments seem to be (very slightly) more pleasing to read.

    This ‘Lotus’ suing issue has blown out of proportion. At this rate even the Lotus plant must be taken to court.

    If you’ve got a personal vendetta against Fernandes for murdering your family or conning you your life savings then go ahead, get your sniper rifle and take him down. or at least fly MAS and don’t take AA. Since the way people talk it is as if AA is conning people instead of lowering travel costs for your family.

    Take Fernandes down but don’t take Team Lotus down or his Tune group of companies. He is just one person in a massive organisation and MANY Malaysians are very happy to make a living in his organisation and to be honest if you actually get to talk to his employees he is not that lousy of a boss at all. Quite the opposite.

    Sometimes as a Malaysian I feel very embarrassed to know that the world can read paultan and see how shallow and petty we can be based on the mentality in here.

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    • fazron80 on Jan 27, 2011 at 12:16 pm

      Why so eager to use Lotus? His airplane is not Lotus. Lotus doesn’t want him anymore. SO no need to use Lotus name. Find something else la to use what’s the big problem. Previously it’s ok since there’s no Lotus on the grid. Now the Real Lotus is coming in so the wannabes just have to accept it. In this case Mr TF himself.

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    • totally agree wit u, the low class bashin mentality i’m seein here is certainly not in the spirit of the soo called true lotus f1 team or anything like tht. I notice one trend here, anything good about TF gets thumb down, and i wonder does this people even know him in the 1st place. typical crowd following mentality. I’m in the circle of people who hv gained from air asia and tune hotels, so do many of my friends and family. just dun get it, why all this personal grudge in this blog???! annoying to read, try to come up with some usefull facts, honestly u guys shud read foreign blogs and learn, the comments are very decent and factful and nice to read. If not happy wit him go c him personally, dun spoil this blog guys.

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      • SeriuosSAM on Jan 27, 2011 at 1:05 pm

        they probably PROTON employees meh

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      • rally_fan on Jan 27, 2011 at 1:40 pm

        firstly, bashing is normal on the internet, especially with malaysian audiences.

        but have you actually read tony’s tweets? he gets very personal and even goes as far as making snide comments aimed directly at the management of his opponents in this saga.

        so i suppose its ok for TF to make personal comments against his ‘opponents’ and supporters, but its not ok for the ‘other side’ to also vent their thoughts and feelings? to be fair, from my observations, proton has only made one statement in the press regarding this entire thing, and has remained silent ever since. even tony bahar has not publically criticised TF and Team. please correct me if i am wrong.

        your argument on benefitting from TF’s companies also goes both ways. there are also a lot of people who have gained from either direct employment or indirect with proton. there are thousands of staff who work with dealers, and malaysian vendors who do business with proton, etc.

        but in this case, its very clear from the court transcripts, that the press release issued by tony earlier is totally out of sync with what actually transpired. i wonder how anyone can defend the statements made by TF.

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        • ayuarjuna on Jan 27, 2011 at 4:54 pm

          i heard u bro… on your last paragraph, get a Malaysian politician.. sure they can turn shit & make everyone believe it’s a gold… hehehe

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        • ayuarjuna on Jan 27, 2011 at 4:57 pm

          i heard u bro.. on your last paragraph, just get a Malaysian politician to do the ‘twisting’ job, sure they can turn shit & make average joe believe it’s a gold.. agree??? hehehehe

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        • Fellaly on Jan 27, 2011 at 6:21 pm

          look at what the liar said on his twitter account in response to proton’s response to his initial press release

          http://twitter.com/tonyfernandes/status/29946164774174720

          he dares call it a spin… no shame ah, after the public transcript is out?

          NO SHAME

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          • osh_kosh on Jan 27, 2011 at 9:21 pm

            ROFL… This is funny & a bit childish. Whatever la Mr Tony wes..

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          • MAS had lose with Air Asia..the next will be Proton will losing to Sir Tony Fernandes which is Team Lotus.

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    • ayuarjuna on Jan 27, 2011 at 4:46 pm

      why r u posting the same comment on different thread??? desperately to get heard huh?

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  • Woohoo on Jan 27, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Aiya. Lucky no same fight for the name “damansara”.. Like bukit damansara ppl stopping developers naming the lower class sungai buloh area to be called damansara as well. In this lotus case, the kurap cat is clear.

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  • balloon on Jan 27, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    After all this .. i have a few questions !

    1> How much money do you think TF paid Hunt for the Team Lotus name ?

    2> No one actually interviewed Davind Hunt about the Team Lotus and the agreement

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    • Here is the only interview with David Hunt : http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=393762

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  • F**K to all proton and group lotus..they are not the owner of the team lotus name. Team Lotus are separate the from the group lotus by colin chapman himself. Make sure team lotus beat lotus renault GP this year and let proton cry. Let the Group Lotus bankrupt bacause of making to much loan and taking away tax money to just become a title sponsor to Renault. Colin didn’t want Group Lotus together with Team Lotus because he don’t want they effect each other..

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  • F1 Dreamland on Jan 27, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    I suggest, team lotus must use the original logo as they use in F1 long-long time ago.. I love Lotus Racing.. But now i very sad when two `Lotus’ team take fighting in 2011 Race Grid.. All this only one.. The Man Who Crazy Make Money… Not For Sport Spirit…

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  • pantsonfire on Jan 27, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Seems from 98% of comments that everyone has the opposite opinion to what the TL press release said that the Judge decided…….

    Some of you TL supporters ask why we are bashing TL and TF. This is the reason! All the half truths, lies, exaggerations and vicious personal attacks on twitter…. Not classy.

    Just get on with the racing and let the courts decide on the dispute. All these PR stunts serves no one.

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    • Antony Peacock on Jan 27, 2011 at 6:07 pm

      Yeah let’s get on the racing, Team Lotus will be better this year, but they won’t be competing with the Renault team sponsored by Group Lotus, because the Team Lotus car has only had one year of engineering, whereas the Renault car has got decades worth of advances on the car.
      GL should just concentrate on making their line-up of Ferrari knock-off concept cars into reality and leave Fernandes to race his team under the Team Lotus name, the name he owns, the name that Group Lotus has never owned.

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      • team_lotus fans on Jan 27, 2011 at 6:22 pm

        What so proud for Group Lotus..Renault is not their f1 team. They just title sponsor not f1 team and they just dream they are already in f1..lol..Renault has got decades worth of advances on the car but Group Lotus?

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        • osh_kosh on Jan 27, 2011 at 10:25 pm

          As far as i’m concern, GL have plan to take over the team, so it’s not like Vodafone or Marlboro kinda things which mean it’s still good. And if we are to believe what GL said earlier, then GL have some says in the team & btw there’s no way we can know exactly what writen in their contract. And yes, we can argue all day about their move, if it can make us proud or not, but we will get nowhere with that.

          The important thing is you can’t rule out the fact that it’s a step in the right direction. To achieve whatever their plan are, be it for branding awareness or producing their own F1 engine or selling shirt or whatever. Is it cost effectifve? I believe they have already done plenty of head banging into each other before come to this decision so why worry? Is 1 head (us – a layman) better than 3, 5 or 10’s head (them – experts in their’s field)? So basicly, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with the way GL entered F1, not the same route taken by TF but both have nothing wrong with their choice.

          BUT what TF did with the name issue was totally another thing. It’s the main reason why we all been fighthing, bashing, name-calling to each other since day 1. And it’ll never ends… Hurrah…

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    • team_lotus fans on Jan 27, 2011 at 6:17 pm

      The court never lies..we just gonna wait and see the final result.

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  • merengone on Jan 27, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    What lah.. this is commercial dispute that been brought up by danny bahar, just because of his marketing strategy, thats it, but why he resigned from ferrari and red bull. i really wonder why.

    second why after all this year, only now proton want to go to F1, is it because they have more money now? i’m so sure they have more money before than now. it is good proton trying to market the lotus car in this manner. but why they want to be a sponsor.. because by end of the day, even when the team win a race, the renault name will be mention, not lotus, definately not proton.

    and of course TF will be like what he is now, if he didnt be like that… MAS is still the only airline flying to Sabah n Sarawak. wouldn’t you all act like him when whatever you do been taken away just like that and you have to start from scratch.

    and by the way.. when the judge said GL will be on status quo on the issue. it meant that TL is still correct at that time and so do GL. they both have their own point.

    to me whoever built the chasis is A racing team. it is sad to see there is Proton Inspira type of racing team in F1. On this issue. Proton dont event manage to change the badge or name.. but merely add on.. hopefully proton and danni bahar really knows what they doing….if not,, only god knows what will happen.

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  • As it has been duly pointed out by many here, reading the transcript certainly contradicts the statement made by 1MRT of what they perceived and had suggested others to believing that they had secured an early victory. Instead, it was the judge who denied their request to push the trial to a later date. Group Lotus on the other hand did not oppose to an earlier trial date.
    Syabas Paultan for publishing the transcript.

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  • aaaafiz on Jan 28, 2011 at 4:33 am

    selepas puas membaca article and komen korang..

    bg aku biar la TF nak buat business apa2 pun, obviously die mmg gempak in business..ni dok kutuk2 mcm korang ni LEBIH POWER plak.ceitt ! and org msia plak tu.bangga aku.

    cite bagai dkt sini padahal in real life dudok msia gak. “malaysian spiced english courtroom with drama “< – – – typical sampah
    ceewah..kalau diri tu masuk court kat msia ntah nak ckp english pon teros lupa.hahaha..

    peace :) haha

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