I would like to pose a question to any of you who purchased a car recently. The government is unhappy that car prices have not been reduced much, only in the tune of 2-5% or at most 5-10%.
If you purchased a Toyota Camry (used as an example) last year, and Toyota cuts the price of the Toyota Camry by 15-20%, how would you feel? Would your car’s value drop in the second hand market? And if yes, would you be angry? Would your brand loyalty to Toyota be affected if Toyota was the only one who gave a big price cut for their cars? Would your brand loyalty to Toyota be affected if all car manufacturers did similiar price cuts? Or would you be okay with it, considering it is an effect of the National Automotive Policy?
There are no right or wrong answers. It’s a matter of your own opinion, and I hope everyone will agree to disagree in case differences of opinions occur in the discussion. Also feel free to give your thoughts on what you think of the NAP in general, and the after-effects so far. The prices of cars in Malaysia is truly a complicated thing. Such a delicate balance must be kept.
Looking to sell your car? Sell it with Carro.
duno wat to say
prices of automobile shouldnt be lower becoz a lot stingy people will always using wait and wait …. till they will finally stop buying and this will slowdown our automotive industry
would be more than happy that cars are going to be cheaper. my brand loyalty won't be affected, cars will depreciate no matter what anyway. the only reason i might switch to another brand is cause the "on-ner" brand is affordable then eheh
don't lower price , add extra accessories and value added spec instead
Damn, please la. Dont be so selfish. Think of others who wants to buy car also. The sentence "Dont lower car prices" makes my blood boil.
have not purchase any new car so i don't qualify to comment here but Paul, would be nice if you can ask what is your site visitor's general feeling are with the NAP and the market response.
perhaps i myself don't qualify to comment, as all the cars i've purchased are 2nd hand. i prefer someone else to take care of my car's depreciation before i take over :)
but do share what you feel even if you are not a car buyer. what WOULD you feel.
I don't mind car prices going down gradually. I also agree on the other suggestion of giving more for the same amount of money (add airbags, traction control, ABS, EBD, immobilizers, free fuel, free maintenance, etc)
Lower prices, but be gentle and over time. Commit to doing whatever they're doing today for the next 5 years until 2010. Lowering 20% over a year will only cause people to burn their cars to claim insurance money or something stupid like that :-)
Also perhaps the govt can think positive and encourage people to buy safer cars. For example cars that get the 5-star Euro-NCAP rating automatically gets an additional 5% tax reduction. Same thing about environmentally friendly cars, hybrids etc.
dont be angry at me, i dont mean to be selfish. what about the buyer that just bought new car few days ago? this will makes people think that cars price will always drop and drop and finally everyone will wait …then who will dare to purchase cars then
I don't agree on the accordmania said,
If you look at JPJ registration, you can see that car registered every month are more or less the same, despite many reasons i.e waiting for new budget annoucement, price increase etc..
Generally, I dont believe that Malaysian has the wait attitude when buying cars, they buy when they can afford it and when necessary, and not necessarily wait for year end for car price to drop..
I strogly agree that price reduction should be pass down to consumers by the manufacturer/dealers… and as what najib said, the price cut so far isnt benefiting the consumers, its benefiting the importars/manufacturer…
My take on this is simple. Lowering the prices for cars is a no-brainer here. It doesn't matter if u have already bought the car. The fact that the policy means a drop in other brands will mean that for strong local brands to compete effectively, they will also have to lower the prices of their cars. If u have already bought it…then so be it. Why bother whether the second hand value TODAY is high or low. If u just bought it last year..u'd probably wanna sell it …..in 3 – 5 years.
Buying a car is not a cheap affair. Interest rates are murderous and it means a lot to MANY People. Maybe Accordmania has more money than the average Joe. But the matter of the fact is that…as people we shouldn't have to be so calculative. If petrol prices increaesed today. Would u go to the petrol kiosk to demand them to sell u petrol at the old price? Same applies to cars.
Dropping sales prices of cars this way is the right move. Slowly, but surely..Don't expect 10 -20 % change..the board will also reject this move. But the most important poitn here is…that at least we're going somewhere. Proton will have to be on their toes now.
Car price drop is a good thing and when people spend less on car they would have more of their disposable income on something more worthwhile like being able to own their own home. Hell! Money not spend on buying cars would help other industries a lot I might add.
If car price did drop drastically suddenly, who else to blame but the government. They drag their feet on the NAP and artificially hold the price at this level via Tax. Now some smart aleck is not happy with only 2% to 10% reduction. Just to win votes only lah… besides he is hoping for more discount on his mercedez.
Drop! Drop yer pants! Drop more!
I don't bother about 2nd value or not, as long as the price for owning a car is not a burden. Cars will always depreciates, but look at those people that change handphones, they probably spent more on the depreciation than on a car.
Locally manufactured cars (e.g. Proton & Perodua) probably can't reduce prices as much as the other brands, all due to both having had 'discounts' for excise and import duties all these years. Now that the 'playing field' has been levelled to some extent, the non-national brands have the chance to increase market share at the expense of 'thicker' profit margins. Quoting Proton MD on TV1 the other day, in a mature market, 30% market share is considered good already. What's Toyota's/Honda's/Kia's latest market share then?
How come no one has answered paul's questions?
If i were to buy the said accord,yes i would be a little cheesed off but then what's the point, i can't blame the salesman or honda because they also won't know what the new tax structure would be. Anyway i would have probably worked out my finances to purchase the car so i guess getting angry over it won't help at all.
Life is always unfair and we just have to live with it.
I for one would be interested in the exact figures of the lowered prices. The government has said that it is not happy with the current prices. If only the government will make the figures public, it would put a massive dent in the car makers profit. Are the current stock of cars are affected with the new tariff? or its still the old tariff.
I am also considered unlucky to own a new car the last 6 months. I support immediate price cuts just to generate better value for the customer. Going about 2-3% per week/month or whatever is not that pleasing. Since DPM says he is unplpeased with the current prices, Malaysians WILL wait for the real prices. And I would not be suprise if the exact figures the government has is leaked out in public. Its just too tempting not to leak out the prices. For once I would like the dealers/sellers to suffer. Mind me that the car I have now would depriciate massively by I don't know how much K but then last year whene the government announced the price hike, dealers had the pricing instantly and people were frantically placing orders just to get the old prices since they thought that the prices would drop.
If the new tarrifs apply to current car stocks, than imagine the massive bookings of the cars. If a Accord 2.0 cost 25% less now, we are looking at a ~100K car which is in direct competition with the Perdana V6.Playing safe will ultimately hurt the dealers, as I for one am willing to wait for the "expected price". I don't feel cheated. This sort of things are something which you could not guess, unless you are an insider. Like when Putrajaya was build on FELDA land. Instant millionairs and also instant poverty. If I knew Putrajaya, cyberjaya was going to be build on that plot of land, I wouldn't not mind buying cheap sell expansive. Brand loyalty does not change, only that you will still lose in purchasing a new car because you have to get rid of the current car at a devalued price, and you might purchase a cheaper car.
Those who are very lucky sold their cars a day before the announcement and are "carless" now waiting for the new prices (and I am sure there are many insiders who have done this)
i would say i do agree very much with accordmania. no need to lower car price too much.add other accesories and make things better. well..if we are going to lower the prices over the next 3 or 5 years or even 10 years, then people will definitely wait and wait and wait..so our automobile industry will flat out. its gonna be very bad..the government is missing one major point here – how do u expect car manufacturers to abide and lower down the prices? they are the sellers and sellers sell and make money! maybe this will scare them off and they just take off! the thing about car values dropping. well, its just the matter of luck actually. and nothing u can do about it. just forget it and move on!
If you purchased a Honda Accord (used as an example) last year, and Honda cuts the price of the Honda Accord by 15-20%, how would you feel?
nothing, this is life.
Would your car’s value drop in the second hand market? And if yes, would you be angry?
of coz, then again, this is life.
Would your brand loyalty to Honda be affected if Honda was the only one who gave a big price cut for their cars?
nope, as long as the car is good and the price is right and i can afford it, buy ler.
Would your brand loyalty to Honda be affected if all car manufacturers did similiar price cuts?
again, i'm no enemy of money, which ever brand comes out with the most balanced (price/performance/usage) car, that is the one i'll choose.
All I can say is, this lowering of car prices is BS. It is just a political thingy after raising fuel prices by 30cents. Lowering car prices for such a small amount for cars below 100k. If you noticed, all those high end cars (above 250k) will enjoy large reductions in prices. I guess in Malaysia, you need to be rich to enjoy things. The rich just gets richer every single day.
Another thing to note is interest rates is going up already. The cost of owning a car does not lie in the car purchase price. Instead it is the cost of ownership ( interest rate cost, service cost, insurance, petrol, road tax) The last time I checked out, Perodua interest rate has raised from 3.75% to 4.25% in just 6 months. I would say by next year it would be over 5%.
Before you guys think of buying a car soon, think about the long term, what will happen in 5 year's time. For me, recession is coming soon, don't get yourself in debts. 1997 and now 2006, already 9 years. Normally economic cycles comes in 10-15 years. So be prepared guys.
i wonder, why would u want to lash out to private carmaker (in this case, Honda) when the situation is a resultant of government's policies? are we heading the right focus here?
HatukNgkau: I posed this question to find out what you guys think, not lash out at any particular company. Don't misunderstand. It is relevant to the situation somewhat. Would you rather I change the name Honda to something like Chery? Okay, I've changed it to Toyota. I can change it anytime. No particular focus. I've sent you an e-mail to the address you used to comment.
88forex.blog.com said,
March 27, 2006 @ 1:24 am
All I can say is, this lowering of car prices is BS. It is just a political thingy after raising fuel prices by 30cents.
i agree, they have realized that they made a big mistake in raising petrol prices by too much, so now this is a diversion to take your attention away from the petrol issue. i think the 2-3% savings won't even cover your petrol for 1-2 yrs…..unlesss u r in the rich category. when is the next election coming?
back to the topic…..lets say you bought your accord earlier and paid a higher price, you probably got a higher trade in value too….if u buy a new car later at a lower price and trade in later you get a lower trade in price as your old car is also worth less by now. its quite fair rite?
I'd say to reduce the prices once and for all. I just bought a new car, and have already made the committment to pay my monthly installments for x number of years.
My point of view is if you have already accepted the terms and the commitment at the point of purchase, then it shouldn't make sense for you to look over the fence and see that the grass is greener on the other side, and prevent others from benefitting just because you didn't.
There will always be winners and losers in life, in this case, if the Govt decides to slash prices, I'm one of the many losers. So what? If life gives you a lemon, make lemonade and move on.
paul , jus look at those kia Carnival Owners wen it was lunched it was priced at about Rm160k , thn Suddenly Naza came and assemble thm and guess wat,the price was jus RM99k….now,if u wer a Carnival Buyer prior to the Naza Ria , how on earth r u gonna feel??
jus an example,i myself dont believe in buying a new car.thy r all overpriced and will lose ALOT wen u sell back,best is to get a good 2nd hand and that wil be a true meaning to the value of money…bt the recent price 'reduction' wil not change anyting…if u bought a camry few mnths backas u stated as an example…n now its cheaper..i mean for the owner wdnt even make a diff,although he mite get depressed for a while!
this is exactly like the recent petrol hike few weeks ago.rememebr how much noise created by the public for that? and look at it now..its sooo quite already!
so my opinion is , the msian market is NOT a price sensitive market conterary to popular believe…once u set ur mind on buying a particular car,u will buy it no mater wat,dont even be surrised that MPVs will sell even more now although prices went up…
oooh one more thing , to be fair to the G , the NAP was Due almost a year ago…so the public should know that eventually it wil come out and prices wil drop….y did thy go n purchase b4 the NAP since thy kow thy can get it lower ltr?? bcos it doesnt matter to thm and it doesnt matter to probably 95% of the ppl….its all irralevant…maybe the G jus wanted to give some good news to the rakyat since we were all depresed bcos of the petrol price hike…!
88forex.blog.com, good comments.
but back to the topic. i guess it all boils down to luck of the draw. many a car owner has also bought a new car, only to realise that 2 months down the line, an all new replacement is launched, bigger, better, better price.. etc. etc.
if it happened to me, i would be disappointed, but not angry, and i'll probably not be affected by my loyalty to the brand i guess, but i've never been brand loyal, so no matter.
i think people understand that the car pricing issue is out of the hands of the manufacturers. They were equally in the blind about the whole issue until the details were released recently.
All I can say is, this lowering of car prices is BS. It is just a political thingy after raising fuel prices by 30cents
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I would say it's economic rather then political. You cannot work against free global market force and the 1997 financial crises are clear for all to see. So it is a futile attempt to artificially keep petrol price down and Malaysia had been doing that very “futile†exercise for pass years and all we had is problem like smuggling whereby the really big fish benefits the most and so did the little crook, except the common people like you and me. Therefore I said: by all mean raise the petrol price to global price ASAP.
Having raise petrol price to “global†market price, the next step should be to lower the car to “global†market price ASAP also and NAP is in the right direction although there is still many room to go. I did buy a Savvy and now it is RM3000 cheaper. I would not be telling the truth if it doesn’t hurt but that’s life. It’s a short term hurt and long term gain.
Looking it in another way. There is no free lunch in this world. Either we pay cheap petrol & high priced lousy cars. Or we pay expensive petrol & low price quality car. The latter is definitely more efficient and less problematic (i.e. fuel smuggling, diesel fuel queue etc).
From the very moment you bought a car, you already lose money as your car become 2nd hand car, price depreciation is already expected. IMHO, if camry reduct price 20%, yeah, maybe new owners will get depressed a while, but i think it will still depreciate slower then some other car. Not many camry owners will sell their camry one year after purchase, they will keep on using it for a few years, and as long as a car serve your well, then thats fine.
Currently, a 2004 vios and perdana is same price range. But still some people buying perdana, even thou knowing that its 2nd hand value is not good.
Dear Paul and all,
well, I have one comment/question.
when price increase, it is IMMEDIATELY.
BUT when price DECREASE/DROP , why do you want to wait till clear stock ? why not immediate drop in price.
As for me, I have just got my wife a MyVi, and it just drop RM2,000…. I innitially have plans to replace my Wira 1.3GL 1997…. well, I will wait till 2010 then, I will just service my car now till 2010 to enjoy the maximum.
happy (sometime UNhappy) motoring
In the first place, the G should not even taxed cars soooo blodddy high….For me it is ok, cause if I seel that car at lower price, I can still buy a new car at lower price. You lose some, you gain some.
After all these furore, I got nobody else to blame, but the G and Proton. After 20 years if they still cannot fight in open market, let's just sell that damn P1 off. Because of P1, I have to take a 7 to 9 years loan for my car. I actually finish paying in 4 to 5 years, but have to drag on additional 3 to 4 years just paying the STUPID TAXES………
Isn't this a burden…. If the G says ubah cara hidup, then they should lower the tax and we can pay less, and keep any additional money for future use..
PERIOD..
What i feel??.. ok what.. Ala dont take it personal la.. bisnes is like this.. price up & down.. we r the purchasers.. use our rights la.. right timing to buy.. hahaha.. for instance last time i bought chicken about RM6 per kilo.. then when bird flu came in.. RM2.50 per kilo only.. ok what… car oso like this la.. dont nangis la.. its only money you lost.. look for more money la… it just bisnes, it nothing personal.. be a smart buyer.. choose right timing.. if u r a patient man wait till 2010 some more, hehe..
Mr. Paul is smart oso.. hes right, lets somebody took the depriciation cost.. ermm mybe i'll use his style oso.. but own a 1st hand cars, give different feel.. like a 1st hand wife oso la.. u know la what i mean…
ps: price down = good, price up = bad… simlpe right?
Its like buying computers, u either wait the next day, next month or next year, or buy now if the price suits you. Anyway, its wiser to do research before u buy and buy according to your needs la, i think. Even if the price is lower right now, u will still be dissapointed that maybe in next year the price will be lowered more and the car is fitted with many add-ons..
Also, i agree that we should plan ahead when buying a car. Never take the 9 years instalment plan, for me, 7 is worst enuff, 5 is better. You never know what will happen in the future, so buy according to your needs n the size of your wallet (as if we really had a choice here).
Price of car goes down benefit the G's vison towards 2020… Most ppl can own a new car when car become affordable.. So, old car, which is more than 20 years can be scrapped… I dun think any1 here wan to use old car..
The G already mentioned, that old car should be scrapped, so, by lowering the car's price, it can archieve its Vision…
Tourist, it's related to economic but been use as a political weapon for all the parties.
we'll seen 95% of the peoples will agree (which is the consumers) and the other 5% of the peoples (which is the dealers or others businessman who know the dealers pain) that will not agree.
the consumers group might even ask why need to protect the dealers? no definite answer on that but quick and dirty way to reply is the cash flow in the market is majority from the businessman. if they suffer on this, do you think all the consumer as a employee will have a good time?
at the end, the pain still fall back to the 95% peoples….
Hey i do smell some people are selfish ! They say don't lower the car prices ! This is damn stupid guys. Our cars are already way to expensive ! Yet there are still some people against it ? I don't really get them.
The current % reduction is way to low, we need cheaper cars. A Savvy cost RM 42K+….is it worth it ? I don't think so !
Gen 2 at RM 57K+ is it worth it ? i don't think so…..for it's quality
Waja at RM 62K+ is it worth it ? Nope
Perdana at RM 105K+ is it worth buying……with it's ageing tech ? Nope
Camry at RM 140K+ worth it ? With it's huge fuel tank…..? Nope i don't think so
Accord at RM 140K+ ……worth it ….. nope !
Cefiro at RM 150K+ ……..worth it…..nope….because no replacement models for years already !
Think before you write. Why don't we give everyone a chance to own a car. We need to help the poor as well. Not just those who can afford the current car prices.
Some people i guess they are afraid of the car's standard might drop if it's priced cheaper. Come on guys grow up !
We are paying through our nose for cars ? Civic 2006 at RM 117K+….worth it ? ….. i don't think so !
Goverment is rite, need to lower down the price more. Sure sales will pick up ! No doubt. Some people are happy they can afford a better car for the lower price. I will be happy if the prices are lowered, i might even change my car !
So let's wait & see how much, pasengger cars & ckd models will be lowered to . CBU ? I don't know anything about it..
Although i'm d one suffered for this price drop, (just got my car last 3 weeks :( ) but lowering the car price is much welcomed anyway. This is right direction and we hope that it keep dropping to more or less price range similar to Thailand in order to really competent. Then next time changing d car, even though trade-in value is lowered but new car price down relatively large as well.
Still, the price drop unsatisfied yet, how to compete with our neighbour – Thailand, the real car manufacturing hub for this region. Gov should already set the target of how much the price being brought down (let say at least 10%) and lowering the tax tariff accordingly, instead of setting the tax and then asking each car manufacturer to decide by themselve. Later expressed still unhappy for the price drop ratio, just like dropping hammer on one own foot. B*** S***
come on la. not all the prices or cars are drop. some rise isn't it? Why worry of our country's automobile industry? they should work hard and smart in order to survive. You want you children next time to continue drive your 20 years kancil?. Everybody wish to get a new car or at least a better one. Singapore also experience this isn't it? they are doing fine and no problems. seriously i welcome the lowering of car price.
Tourist, I like your points. Lets get the petrol subsidy issue settled. But give us what we have been deprived from, a global low car price. And most importantly so that more MY citizen could afford a car that meet the latest safety standard feature and hence reduction in fatality due to cars that has not met the minimal safety standard. Enough of buying a car that was designed on 1980s.
I also agreed that most consumer will not wait for the price drop till 2011. They always can find reason if they really feel like changing his/her existing car.
We could make a difference. Lets support those brand that is sincere enough to pass-on all the price reduction to consumer, rather on other brand that keep it to themself in hoping of generating more profit. We will know who is the responsibled corporate citizen when the official price reduction rate been announced one by one.
guys,
1. i think the car price should not be viewed based on pricing. logically, the price went down due to taxes. it's not the value of your car that went down. your car 'value' still remained the same. the $$$ that you lost is actually you had to pay extra taxes to the g-men to drive your dream car earlier.
2. also, when you get a car, why think of 2nd hand value ? you loose $$$ in a car .. you won't make $$$ out of it.
3. lowered car price is very welcomed. at least car price will be more affordable so that more people will be able to own their dream car at a lesser price.
4. food for thought : if you are driving a higher end car, think of people who are struggling with the loan of a kancil or those low range car. Lowered car price will make a difference to this group of people. therefore, be thankful you are able to own a car now. there are still a lot out there who can't afford one.
Hi Paul,
I'm sorry, perhaps i didnt put it the correct way to express my point. no, i'm not hitting at ur question actually, but merely a reply to others' comments, and yes, i get your point in ur email.
rexis said:
From the very moment you bought a car, you already lose money as your car become 2nd hand car, price depreciation is already expected.
Pentan Sakua said:
In the first place, the G should not even taxed cars soooo blodddy high….For me it is ok, cause if I seel that car at lower price, I can still buy a new car at lower price. You lose some, you gain some.
motorhead said:
What i feel??.. ok what.. Ala dont take it personal la.. bisnes is like this.. price up & down.. we r the purchasers.. use our rights la.. right timing to buy.. hahaha.. for instance last time i bought chicken about RM6 per kilo.. then when bird flu came in.. RM2.50 per kilo only.. ok what… car oso like this la.. dont nangis la.. its only money you lost.. look for more money la… it just bisnes, it nothing personal.. be a smart buyer.. choose right timing.. if u r a patient man wait till 2010 some more, hehe..
Charger said,
I don’t bother about 2nd value or not, as long as the price for owning a car is not a burden. Cars will always depreciates, but look at those people that change handphones, they probably spent more on the depreciation than on a car.
i agree very much with what they said and it has roughly summed up what i thought regarding the issues that Paul has asked in his question.
no, for me brand loyalty will not be affected.
haha HatukNgkau, i like ur honest yet truthful answers.
As u all know the G, PRICE DOWN……BUT INTREST up…..its a win win 'business' for them la……..the burden is still on. Overall its a freaking good thing, unless u have cash to buy a car; lol.
Paul,
I think lower price will affect brand loyalty. A rule of thumb.
waimak,
I diagree with you. Brand loyalty normally built over time and it may due to but not limited to factors like quality, high confidence level, good after sales service, competitive/lowest price, value for money, realiability, etc. I am in the opinion lower price will stimulate more demand as it is more afforable, epecially for goods and services under normal demand and supply curve.
NAP is still "Nonsense Automotive Protection" for Proton, it is still treat consumers as "captured market" with obvious price discrimination on all makes. The only "cosmetic changes" is "rationalization" of excise and import duty to make certain make more expensive and lower Proton cars price to boost it sales? e.g. Make Toyota Avanza become more expensive, then less affordable to buyers. What is this "selective" automotive policy, look like G still practice regulations to stimulate the auto industry, not ask Proton to be more competitive and respond to market force.
Joe Ooi,
Lower price definitely stimulates demand. And I think it also improve the level of disposal income which is one of the factors in changes in demand curve other than technology and taste and preferences. Like you said "Brand loyalty normally built over time and it may due to but not limited to factors like ……..competitive/lowest price,.." So it a way it does affect brand loyalty.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but by having extra income, in this case automotive/ car, people are able to spend their money on other brand besides their usual brand.
Waah, waimak this time I strongly agree with you, but with something to add.
to add more, competitive/lowest price …… normally translated into "extra saving" rather than "extra income" to consumers. Definitely will improve our Purchasing Power Parity (PPP)! In this case I just correct the wording from "income" to "saving", but believe the meaning is the same. Of course with extra money people can put in saving or spend on anything they wish, including as what you say!
Haiya.. all this NAP stuff is just to feed all the crocodiles inside poton.. can make some money for gov oso… for them ok what… we have to be a smarter consumer.. if we want we all can boikot poton for good.. see what they''ll do next.. they cant continue with the regime policy forever.. theres a lotta pressure from outside.. if they wont change, they have to forget la making msia for auto hub… thailand is away ahead of us.. & auto investers have many alternatives beside msia… so the gov oso will loose in the future…. now there a little time left for poton….3-4 years not long.. many people jailed for more than 10 years…
3-4 years wait for your dream car.. can rite..?? save our money 1st…
ps: i can wait… since my kancil ex850 have good accelaration power & pickup.. have to buy at least 1.8 manual car to get the same feel & pickup..or 1.5 with turbo…
Motorhead,
You want to know how much NAP make from us as "soundless and captured consumers". Previously, I do an analysis and the result is as follow:
Consumers have to fork out on average RM 2.42 Billions per annum (or RM 202 Millions per month) from 2000 to 2004 in order for Proton to achieve in aggregate 920,590 passenger cars sales to make profits of RM 3.11 Billions for the same corresponding period! If in open market, Proton would face with massive debts in aggregate of RM 9 Billions for the same corresponding period, sure get annihilated! This is for 5 years period only, but for Proton, its over-price practice already causes huge economic cost to consumers totaling RM 12.11 Billions. With this kind of probable financial standing under open market, then it is understood why “Local-Class Joker†like Proton fight ferociously until to the “last drop of blood†to maintain the current NAP’s preference and automotive tax-phobia structure. However, maintaining current status quo means consumers are get suck until “blood of last dropâ€!
How about prohibitive sum consumers have to pay for imported makes and other local players like Perodua, Inokom and Naza range of products? If all cars were calculated, the economic cost on “over-price†due to “Machiavellian’s tax-phobia†is around RM 8.66 Billions for 2004 alone? How about for Proton’s existence period of 20 years ++? The sum involved should be added “Billions exponentially� Perhaps in excess of well over RM 100 Billions! There are many questions marks and definitely a whopping sum by our national standard! Where to put our national pride and dignity with so call national car projects? If the government did not embarked on Proton project, with this huge sum of money collected over 20 years, there are no problems for the nation to secure not only enough, but perhaps surplus funds to build many highways like North-South, Central Link, East Coast, LDP, SPRINT, SILK, Penang Bridge, etc for motorists to use at all time TOLL FREE!
So NAP – "Nonsense Automotive Protection" is SUCK, Proton is SUCK and G is SUCKING consumers until the pants also drop!
waimak,
wat u say may be true if we are to restrict our scope to only cars and price as the only variables in the supply-demand curve and i would agree with you on the ground of perfect market condition.
however the world we're living in is not the perfect world we're taught to assume in economics. i would like to agree with Joe Ooi here. we have to take many factor into consideration when we're devising a marketing plan, brand loyalty being one part of it.
There are the basic 4Ps to consider, namely Product, Price, Promotion and Place, and this, we have not include other criterias as well. as u can see price is merely one contributing factor but not the rule of thumb.
What is the point of being cheap when the quality, after-sales support and everything else is perceived badly? One simple case is our Proton, with artificially cheap pricing, yet their products does not earn positive satisfaction level from significant portion of buyers? Hence the the impression of "Cheap thing no good, good thing no cheap". but do take note that i'm not saying that this is a definite rule also.
Why do you think, despite its outrageous price after tax here in Malaysia, there are scores of ppl who aspires and willing to fork out huge sums of money to own and drive a BMW,Merc-Benz, Porsche, Ferrari, Evo-Lancer and many other premium brand cars? Many do it for the prestige. many for the safety and comfort. and many, simply bcoz they can afford to.
does that clarifies the reason why Price is not the rule of thumb? Yes, cheaper price would spur demand and thus, sales but, i would like to stress it here, it only is correct to a certain extent and would never be the primary factor in deciding whether the brand would succeed or not.
Having excess money after price reduction does not mean ppl will DEFINITELY jump brands. Perhaps they will uprade to higher models within the same brands? or perhaps they will still buy the cars they want and spend the excess money elsewhere, investment, savings or on other consummables. We can only predict consumer preference and act according to it. Forcing consumer demands to suit our projections is only striking a time bomb waiting to explode.
Unhappy or not… life still must go on.
Take my mom's Kia Carnival bought in 2002, price back then was RM 160k. About a year n a half, Naza decided to sell Naza branded ones at RM 98k! In total, my mom lost RM 62k after 1 year.
Now, 2nd hand dealer offer RM 70k for the car. More than 50% drop in value after 2 years of ownership.
So how? Keep the car n continue to drive it.
Agree with HatukNgkau
If we observe American market as per advertisement in MSN, the Camry, Accord, Galant, Sonata, Nissan Altima, etc, it is categorise as midsize passenger car with price range start from as low as USD 16K onward. This is almost the price of Waja, which if in the US market consider as small pasenger car. Our Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) in relation to US is approximately 1:4 (estimate year 2004), with NAP, albeit higher prices, the PPP are reduce to 1: 5 for small car and 1:10 for midsize car! That means, for example on average, if this poor Joe Ooi own 1 unit Proton Waja, the American can own 5 units Mitsubishi Lancer. For those Malaysian who own 1 unit Proton Perdana, the American able to own 10 units Toyota Camry. This is how the effect of NAP! We already fall behind in PPP, yet this bloody Proton make us worst! WTF! So those who argue against price drop akin to want to feed more fatter the crocodiles in G and Proton.
To acbc
Agree with you life have to go on, but we as consumers shall not make to pay exhorbitant cost for goods and services, including cars. If this kind of scenario continue, our next generation gap between the rich and the poor will be something like India!
Joe,
thanks for your analysis joe.. it's impresive.. i believe all the money goes to the crocodiles mouth… these crocodiles donno doin bisnes.. but they really good at manipulating the situation to get our money.. u havent seen anything yet.. theres a lot we donno, like what happened for last 20 years.. thats why they'll do anything to win the poll to avoid info to leak out…
Actually.. we r not prepare yet to have our own national car… we dont have the capability yet.. its not easy.. we should start as cars asembly 1st, like our colaboration with mitsu… like usual our gov always like joker.. kasi buat dulu.. for instance like our singapore bridge.. no green light from singapore, they ve started the project.. what a joke!!.. same la like our national auto.. they should think long term.. now theres no turning back, bcoz if our proton fail, it will be a disaster.. worse than PERWAJA case.. so many people involved.. so huge amount of money.. this they cannot risk.. they will do anything.. including what you called NONSENSE AUTO. POLICY…
Price is one thing, statisfaction is another. Simple rule: you make the customer happy, they will pay for it, and even help you advertise for free.
You treat your customer like idiot, they will make 1000 other customers think that your shop is shit.
Motorhead,
The analysis figures are not "plug from the sky" but comparative analysis between our country "close market" vs. US's "open market". That is just part and summary of it! Of course I as layman do not have all info., but I do carried out "extensive analysis" on it, inclusiv case study. If you are interested to know the whole, then type in your Email address and I can send to you. Eventhough I don't know you personally, but willing to share! Or not coovenient to write down, ask Paul Tan! he got the analysis!
Definitely we are not prepare to have national car project, yet our G still bragging and big mouth by coming out with avanlanche of talk cock! Under NAP, only two allowed, what is this, want the rakyat to suffer more and create "Billionaire Crocodiles"! Damn shit!
nampak macam ramai tak setuju dengan projek kereta nasional… proton, dan cuba bandingkan nilai kerata tempatan dengan kereta negara maju.. ada juga yang cuba bandingkan nilai kereta sejak 20 tahun dahulu.
tahukah anda kos pembangunan negara datangnya dari cukai yang dibayar rakyat, cuba nilaikan berapa banyak pembangunan negara sejak 20 tahun lepas, sekarang dah ada highway, sistem pendidikan yang lebih baik, sistem kesihatan, LRT, perumahan… semua ini memerlukan kos… mana kerajaan dapat duit untuk buat semua nie????….kalau nak harap cukai pendapatan berapa sen sangat nak tampung pembangunan negara? tahun lepas LHDN kutip sekitar RM27billion sahaja
projek kereta nasional adalah cara kerajaan memungut hasil cukai untuk pembangunan negara….
berbanding negara maju, nilai kereta mereka memang murah, tapi perlu diingat cukai pendapatan mereka sangat tinggi… sehingga 25% dari jumlah pendapatan….
saya rasa lebih adil dan mudah untuk kerajaan kutip cukai melalui pembelian kereta..
kalau dah mampu beli kereta mahal… mesti mampu tanggung cukai…
cuma sekarang dengan perjajian AFTA cara ini tidak comply dengan peraturan globalisasi yang dibuat WTO.
kerajaan ditekan untuk menurunkan cukai kereta supaya selaras dengan WTO… tetapi perlu diingat pembangunan memerlukan kos… so bersedialah untuk bayar cukai pendapatan yang lebih tinggi jika harapkan nilai kereta yang lebih murah..
OMG, check this guy out, yes…we have been in mass development for the pass 20 years. But along every single project, it is given to certain 'companies' that produces low quality products. Unlike our neighbour country, in G projects every single cent is worth. Makan here makan there……..i think everyone know the culture here lah…Crocs are so fat they can't even walk… LOL.
With the cleaner managment with the ideal goal, we could have produce a better stuff. Cheers…
we as 'rakyat malaysia' must not just sit and talk about our government bad here and there. current goverment were in control for years and still remain in control. So, if 'rakyat malaysia' dont like the government, why still vote for them?
We dont know whats going on inside the government wjy they doing all these things that some of we didint like. We dont know their agenda. I just hope government dont cover to the public, instead of telling the real thing.
But, with all these opposition against government (talk, talk bad abt gov.) rising from time to time, it can only means one thing, the government need change or amendament in their policies. more for public 'rakyat malaysia' not for the sake of selfishness….
i plan to buy new proton. and the price has been cut down….. i dont know what other things will go up…
Public raised very interesting matters but me try to answer it: –
"nampak macam ramai tak setuju dengan projek kereta nasional… proton, dan cuba bandingkan nilai kerata tempatan dengan kereta negara maju.. ada juga yang cuba bandingkan nilai kereta sejak 20 tahun dahulu."
Joe Ooi – If what you mean I make price comparison for cars even 20 year ago, let me clarify that I make for year 2000 to 2004. What I mentioned is Proton "inflicted" huge economic cost for the last 20 years, perhap in excess of RM 100 Billions!
tahukah anda kos pembangunan negara datangnya dari cukai yang dibayar rakyat, cuba nilaikan berapa banyak pembangunan negara sejak 20 tahun lepas, sekarang dah ada highway, sistem pendidikan yang lebih baik, sistem kesihatan, LRT, perumahan… semua ini memerlukan kos… mana kerajaan dapat duit untuk buat semua nie????….kalau nak harap cukai pendapatan berapa sen sangat nak tampung pembangunan negara? tahun lepas LHDN kutip sekitar RM27billion sahaja
Joe Ooi – Memang ada banyak pembangunan negara sejak 20 tahun yang lalu dan banyak wang telah dibelanjakan oleh kerejaan untuk tujuan ini. Tetapi cukai yang dikutip oleh kerajaan bukan terhad kepada rakyat, ianya mungkin datang dari sumber lain seperti Petronas. Tahukan anda sebagai rakyat yang setia bahawa persoalan yang timbul ialah projek seperti Perwaja atau Proton membabitkan banyak wang rakyat dan perkara yang menyedihkan ialah dari segi eknomi, ianya tidak mengwujudkan kekayaan kepada negara dalam erti kata yang sebenarnya, tetapi menjadi bebanan kepada rakyat dalam bentuk "CUKAI YANG DAHSYAT" bagi memastikan ianya wujud di pasaran. Sebarang projek nasional sepatutnya membawa kemakmuran ("wealth") kepada rakyat, bukannya bebanan ("liability"). Saya tidak mempesoalkan, bahkan menyokong usaha murni kerajaan menggunakan wang cukai rakyat untuk pembangunan dan kebajikan rakyat, tetapi dalam kes Proton, ianya adalah projek "GAJAH PUTIH".
projek kereta nasional adalah cara kerajaan memungut hasil cukai untuk pembangunan negara….
Joe Ooi – tanpa projek kereta nasional, kerajaan masih boleh memungut hasil cukai untuk pembangunan negara…. tiada hubungan langsung diantara kedua-dua perkara ini, negara-negara ASEAN yang lain dan banyak negara didunia ini tiada projek kereta nasional tetapi masih memungut cukai!
berbanding negara maju, nilai kereta mereka memang murah, tapi perlu diingat cukai pendapatan mereka sangat tinggi… sehingga 25% dari jumlah pendapatan….
Joe Ooi – bagaimana jika kita banding dengan negara bangun yang lain, jiran kita di utara? Thailand, cukai pendapatan Thailand secara relatif masih rendah, harga kereta rendah, harga minyak mengikut pasaran dunia (lebih tinggi dari Malaysia, tetapi kita adalah pengekspot minyak), Leburaya mereka tidak ada tol. Mereka masih ada lebuhraya, Universiti, hospital,dan kemudahan awam yang lain. Mungkin kamu mempunyai pemahaman ekonomi yang cetek bahawa SEBARANG PROJEK EKONOMI YANG DILAKSANAKAN MESTILAH MEMBERI MANFAAT KEPADA RAKYAT TERMASUK MENGWUJUTKAN KEKAYAAN KEPADA NEGARA DALAM ERTIKATA YANG SEBENARNYA, BUKAN MENJADI BEBANAN ATAU "GAJAH PUTIH".
saya rasa lebih adil dan mudah untuk kerajaan kutip cukai melalui pembelian kereta..
Joe Ooi – Kutipan cukai melalui pembelian kereta adalah salah satu cara tetapi tidak seperti kadar sekarang "yang cukup gila".
kalau dah mampu beli kereta mahal… mesti mampu tanggung cukai…
Joe Ooi – Bukan semua mampu beli kereta "mahal", kalau apa yang awak cakap itu betul, suruh kerajaan tutup Proton dan Perodua kerana mereka di kategori kereta yang sepatutnya harga rendah. Ingin saya jelaskan disini bahawa dari perspektif ekonomi, harga secara relatifnya sepatutnya "tinggi" atau "rendah", bukanya "mahal" atau "murah" kerana kereta kita semuanya pada harga "tinggi" berbanding katakan harga kereta di Thailand! Sekarang saya kata Thailand kerana bila saya rujuk US, kamu tak setuju!
cuma sekarang dengan perjajian AFTA cara ini tidak comply dengan peraturan globalisasi yang dibuat WTO.
Joe Ooi – Malaysia adalah salah sebuah negara yang menandatangani Perjanjian WTO, dan sepatutnya kerajaan tahu akan intipatinya dan faham serta setuju dengan segala kandungan serta terma-terma yang termaktub. Ini menunjukan pada dasarnya kerajaan mestilah mematuhi segala peraturan yang terkandung dalam WTO, AFTA dan lain-lain perjanjian yang ditandatangani, ini termasuk industri kereta.
kerajaan ditekan untuk menurunkan cukai kereta supaya selaras dengan WTO… tetapi perlu diingat pembangunan memerlukan kos… so bersedialah untuk bayar cukai pendapatan yang lebih tinggi jika harapkan nilai kereta yang lebih murah..
Joe Ooi – Merujuk kepada penerangan diatas, ingin saya menekankan bahawa kerajaan TIDAK ditekan, tetapi perlu memenuhi "COMMITMENT" ynag selaras dengan Perjanjian WTO yang ditandatanganinya.
Sepanjang pengetahuan saya, kita perlu membayar cukai sejak dijajah oleh British lagi. Y memang pembangunan memerlukan kos, tetapi tidak semestinya membayar cukai yang lebih tinggi. Kereta masih boleh dijual dengan harga yang rendah, kerana dalam senario ini, kemampuan rakyat mampu membeli kereta baru bertambah, lebih besar cc pada bilangan lebih banyak dimana cukai yang dikutip mungkin lebih tinggi kerana "volume factor". Pada harga yang rendah, penjualan kereta di Malaysia mungkin mencecah 1 juta berbanding 2005 hanya lebih 500,000.
Dari perspektif ekonomi, jumlah yang besar ("mass volume to achieve economy of scale") bagi sektor industri kereta adalah amat penting. Tetapi dasar NAP sekarang menyebabkan jumlah yang dijual secara relatifnya lebih rendah, kereta model lebih kecil dan sudah tentu cc kecil, tetapi pada HARGA BESAR.
Harap harap Public faham dengan penerangan diatas dan tidak mengaitkan harga kereta tinggi/cukai pendapatan dengan perbelanjaan pembangunan negara. Persoalan disini ialah projek Proton tidak mendatangkan faedah ekonomi dalam ertikata yang sebenarnya kepada rakyat dan negara, tetapi membebankan "CUKAI RAKYAT" sejak penubuhanya pada 1985 dan sehingga hari ini konsumer masih sengsara TERPAKSA membeli kereta semua jenis pada harga TINGGI untuk memastikan Proton boleh hidup. Cara begini bukan perniagaan secara adil, tetapi merupakan "hisap darah".
i dont know… this is too deep… for those who dont agree with malaysian government… can leave the country and make fortunes there… im also thinking about that… like some people said, business will be forever business… government willl be forever government… its up to us, consumer to consume smart…
go_go said …… for those who dont agree with malaysian government… can leave the country and make fortunes there……
Never follow "cakap" from northern state politician "BLINDLY". This kind of politician can't argue objectively, not "patriotic". If this argument look at "opposite direction", then I want to be STRONG government supporter "BLINDLY", so that I can get G contracts, give me minister post, give me merc, BMW, land, big house, etc. Can it be? It must be joking!
Did anybody noticed that the interest rate for car loan increased? If the G lower down 5% and the interest up, then I do not think there is any changes. We the RAKYAT DAH KENA TIPU DENGAN KERAJAAN. The timing is so accurate. Car tax come down, car interest rate go up. What the FUCK????? I think Pak Lah have told Bank Negara to increased the BLR as soon as he have plan to reduce car tax. KOMPLOT JAHANAM…..Pu..k….mak …dia. In the end there is no decreased in terms of car price at all, casue we mostly take bank loan to buy car….
CAN SOMEBODY OUT THERE ASK THE DPM AND PM, WHAT ARE THEY UP TO????
Weiii.. Public.. dont treat us like we donno what is goin on… u know or not, the recent demo was sprayed by water cannon?? those people only demo peacefuly, just bcoz they dont happy with the petrol price hike, but then sprayed with water cannon??.. what kind of gov is this??.. what about MRR2??.. bakun??? PERWAJA?? SCHOOL LABS?? MAS?? MSC??? next PROTON??.. if you collect all the money, guess how many billion u can get??.. i cant even imagine… but i am sure we can maintain our petrol price for at least 10 years..
& you know, it is stupid to compare petrol price using RM currency.. but they should use 1USD, oil world trade use USD… ,try calculate how many litre of petrol u can buy with 1USD in indonesia, 1USD how much you can get in msia?.. Joe,i leave to u to calculate… i am sure we can get more petrol in indon for 1USD….
Well.. the bottom line is.. national cars is ok, as long as dont burden the people bcoz of their own inefficiency.. dont coz us more problems.. dont let the petrol increasing…dont deny our right to choose cars we like (they raised avanza tax)… dont sell to us car junks… dont cheat the people… & please be more transparent, if they dare la… i am sure they wont.., so much we donno, and is it our fault if we speculate??
joe my email.. [email protected]… all friends here r welcome to email….
do some math + cal = macam dulu juga
Australia is similar population with Malaysia but their second price is low. But then the new car price is also reasonably low and that is the answer for sustainable growth in auto industry.
South Africa use to manufacture their own car but found out the hard way that auto manufacturing is really a cut throat business. Heavy investment and continuous changes in model and wide acceptance of car product was the key to sustainable growth. They found out and they gave out. However, they do insist on 50% local product to simulate their SMI industry.
England completely gave up their car manufacyuring business and focus their attention in what they are good at. Fourth largest economy in the world you know.
Car prices in these countries are low but healthy for car manufacturers to launch new model in their part of the world, which is why recent Bangkok motor show also receive new launch model.
I see no harm in lowering the price of car and prices of car else where in the world are competing to survive with the lowest cost manufacturer and fairly reliable ones winning the race.
Have not purchased any car for the past 5 year. Good for me lah, car cheaper now. Hahahahahahaha…………….
for those who dislike the car price to drop, most likely they don't want their neighbour to drive the same car as theirs. they wanna few" i'm the only big car driver here" . Car price drop enable ppl to buy better and safety car. Surely no one wants their son to drive a 15 years old kancil. better take a bus or cab. some more petrol price has rise, so it's kind off balance up. Continue to drop the price. i am 100% supporting.
Well the interest rate is up already, ciss DAMN YOU G's. Well the truth i always want a car that have reliability, problem free(not every cars is perfect).I as driver also want to change but high price is the main obstacle. This NAP still not relevan for rakyat maa well except for G's of course.
Would the brand loyalty to be affected. This could be some isu but with lower prices for example we could get a premium class with all the benefit. Like dulu we only can buy city now we can buy maybe civic,jazz or accord.
Well until today, seem Honda and Nissan did't not reduce the price.DAMN IT
NAP in general, IS SUCKKARUT.
Wow , good discussion going on here.
Here is my humble opinion. It is good to lower the car price, in fact it is long overdue. As for the question of brand loyalty , don't kid ourself. All consumers are only loyal to the best value money can buy with exception to those with tons of $$$ and at such factors like exclusive , bling bling , prestige and what have you come into picture.
But bear in mind with cheaper car, more people will be able to purchase cars which to some extend will equate same tax income to G. But with more cars on the road , the need to have wider road , triple flyover , MRR and so on.
These are critical to ensure that the roads are not choke with jammed traffic.
Where will the G have the money to cover these projects ?
Few options : Built and collect toll ( Semi Value is gleaming right now !!! )
Follow our southern neighbour ( restrict the usage of certain area or roads during peak time or you pay an additional premium to enter ). Increase of road tax or finally the removal of petrol subsidies.
The thing is we the rakyat still have to pay to G. It is fine with me as long as the tax collected is use prudently and " cleanly " and not for some " crocodile farm " .What we save on cheaper cars we will eventually be forced to cough out through other forms of increase , maybe more.
And that my friends is LPPL !!! cheers…
Being selfish, I was hoping the prices of car will not drop too much. This will immediately kill 2nd value of all cars. It should be drop gradually over the years. Imagine if I just bought a car this month (I DID bought a car this month), and 2 weeks later, the face value drop by 5-8K (80K-90K car range), thats beside the expected car devaluation upon buying. We would curse like hell that we should have waited just 2 weeks later to get a car. Now we will be feel extremely upset and depressed at the loss of those 5K above that will go a long way into servicing the loans. Thats the comment from one with tight budget but finally after years and years of saving, can managed to a get a slightly better car than national car.
hi cavino, i also suffered the same as you, here, we talk a lot also no point. everything is control by our government, and our government is always do something that is not goes along with its citizen. this is our malaysian faith. if u want to buy car then buy it otherwise you can just wait the price to go down till you are too old to drive. finally u just only dream of owning a car
I guess i am abit more lucky than some. Recently I booked a new Honda City, and I managed to trade in my old car on Friday(Mar 24). The agent says she can give me the same price(previously quoted) for my old car, but my new car(out this week) will be the newly adjusted price. Apparently the company thought the new price will only be a few hundred bucks less. However, now with Toyota aggressive price cut, my agent is calling me saying they cannot take my old car at that price, even though I have already cashed the cheque. I dunno how much they are going to cut for my old car(do they have the right to do that?), but I certainly hope Honda will match Toyota in their pricing.
'Leave the country' from 'go go said', this kinda third world mentality is not accepted here.. I wanna see who can tahan how much our money kena suck. It's better then giving a solution then what ever IMMATURE opinions; waste time. The last time a minister said 'don't like malaysia police, you can leave', he was FIRED!
Neways INTREST HIGH LAH!!!! do i have to repeat my point, the G won't lose in $, its win-win situation, price down & intrest up…wat u think? SAME!
What a wonderful world….yet to come!!
this is the greatest nonsense isu ever since Paklah take over.. i oso cant understand.. they think can fool us around.. i really dont know what is their point.. & what benefit they'll get… they just make us mad & madder.. as for me i wont buy any car in this short period.. lets the automotive industry suffer a bit…
motorheah – merajuk….
Since we're on this topic. I wonder anyone of you know Why is there an NAP at the first place? If you know the answer, can you show us the website to read more about NAP.
What about AFTA? is this NAP complaince to AFTA requirement? I'm very interested to read more about all these policies. I wonder what govt is up to.
Car Price reduction is good for new buyers. What is the GOVT intention on NAP? Is it more fuel comsumption since more cars would be on the road? More taxes, toll fees and traffic jam! Maybe more accidents (just exaggerating) as well.
Everyone knows/ expected fuel prices would increase every year. Would car price reduction help in any sense?
I'm confused!
chanlman said,
March 28, 2006 @ 12:01 pm
Joe Ooi – this is my personal opinion only!
"Since we’re on this topic. I wonder anyone of you know Why is there an NAP at the first place? If you know the answer, can you show us the website to read more about NAP."
Joe Ooi – actually any policy shall formulated to stimulate long term sustainable growth for auto industry, and adopt open policy with no preference to certain company. However, our NAP – "Nonesense Automotive Protection" is "IDIOT'S GUIDE TO RIDICULOUS PRICING (WITH TAX-PHOBIA AS MAIN MENU) FOR MALAYSIAN CARS MARKET". It is design to protect Proton by distinct PURPOSE to impose heavy tax so as to enable Proton car saleable in our market. This was done at the expanse of the consumers to get value for money and quality car. Not much you can read on NAP, as it is "old damn grandmother story".
"What about AFTA? is this NAP complaince to AFTA requirement? I’m very interested to read more about all these policies. I wonder what govt is up to."
Joe Ooi – G signed all th FT agreement and they have to honour and compliance with what they commited. Unfortunately, Proton still expected G to act as "sugar daddy" by implementing NAP, and "FORCE" poor consumers like us to act as "sugar mommy" to buy it relatively over-price but inferior products to sustain its hulabaloo existing.
"Car Price reduction is good for new buyers. What is the GOVT intention on NAP? Is it more fuel comsumption since more cars would be on the road? More taxes, toll fees and traffic jam! Maybe more accidents (just exaggerating) as well".
Joe Ooi – G intention on NAP is "nonsense automotive protection" design to protect Proton but have to do "balancing act" between Proton and commitment to FTAs. In term of total volume of cars on road, I think it will be not much different as you mentioned above. But low price cars will lead to improvement of Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) of consumers which will lead to greater demand for new car, higher cc, bigger car, better specs, safety features, etc.
For example, today pricing for Proton Waja is around RM 64K, if open market like US, Toyota Camry 2.4L is sale at USD 18K (RM 68K). Then we can fairly assume consumers will choose Camry over Waja, therefore, we will witness more bigger and safer car on road. This will reduce (not increase) accidents rates and incidents of injury. Of course our G always say our accidents rates is among the highest in the world but never reveal that at least current NAP is indirectly contribute to this factor! – Reduce consumers' PPP, smaller cars, bad quality and don't meet safety standard (European NCAP test).
"Everyone knows/ expected fuel prices would increase every year. Would car price reduction help in any sense?
Joe Ooi – Definitely it will help, For example Camry 2.4L at US is approx. RM 68K and our current local price is around RM 180K. There are different of approximately RM 112K. Say the average fuel consumption for this car is RM 800. Then RM 112K/RM 800 = 140 Months = approx. 12 years! What suffering we have with this NAP
I’m confused!
Joe Ooi – nothing to confuse, except the G treat us like can cheat easily and Proton treat car market as it's "captured consumers" – "cash cow" – milking us until last drop of milk.
Pricing of cars in Malaysia is definitely not as complicated as it is in Singapore where one needs to secure a Certificate of Entitlement first before he can buy an actual car. Of course we would be upset when the car we purchase becomes cheaper one or two months later. But there's nothing we can do.
hahaha…
Chanlman…
Joe Ooi ve explained every statement of yours… so no need to be confused anymore, if u r still confused, u need to read newspapers more often, Joe Ooi has been so kind to give u all the info (his version)… i think everybody got his point oso..
Joe Ooi..
i recpect your endless efford to explain the people about this issue.. go ahead, keep up with the good work.. your BM oso not bad… i guess u got A for BM in your SPM.. rite?
Mr. Paul.. look like this auto forum of yours ve become like political forum.. is ok aa..?? bole or not?
I oso dunno what else to say.. talk so much oso no point, since they all ve no brains.. but always ve good ideas to suck our blood out… but lets find ourself 2nd hand cars & look for a nice potong & accesories shop and customize it anyway we like & finally we have our own dream car… how about that???.. nice aa…???
Come fill up petrol at Brunei, It costs B$0.51/Litre.
Brunei produces 400,000 barrels per day. 50% goes to the government. Now the price per barrel is approx USD65.00 so it means Just over RM49mil/day. Their petrol prices never budged as far as I've known. Even with the crude oil price surge, the amount of profit gained by the government automatically gets injected as fuel subsidy there. BTW diesel there costs B$0.30/litre
Singapore doesn't produce petrol and have to rely on import. They are priced at SGD$1.90~ish/litre. Dunno how much is the diesel there tho.
How's about Malaysia? we produce crude too; good quality low sulphur even. But why export it? so we can export at higher price then buy in lower grade crude from outside at lower cost so there is a profit margin for foreign transactions. Malaysia produces roughly 300,000 barrels/day and 65% goes to Petronas; thats just over RM48mil/day (just a rough estimate). But still we pay RM1.91…
What gives?
I agree with all saying the government is taking this chance to jack up the schmuck out of everything as long it has a price tag on it. I know its kinda totally off topic but its interesting to see how three types of government takes care of its ppl.
So, what to do at the end of the day bashing around but not much of an action taken?
Come fill up petrol at Brunei, It costs B$0.51/Litre.
i just wish that the goverment will increase the income tax..
so that people like me (small income) will still have some purchasing power..
nowadays we can see car worth 200K+ on the road as easy as seeing a kancil..
the Inflation is too big.. people living with 2Mil house, 500K car are more as also people that couldn't afford a house and even a car..
.: I can only wish for higher tax :.
Well, i have a friend, bought Vios, then toyota announced 0% he closed his eyes. Then 2 weeks after that, NAP announced, reduced around RM5k for his car. Are these depreciations? If i were the buyer, i would've felt unlucky, thats almost all about it, nothing to do with Toyota ler. But if i were some uncle who never went online or visit paultan.org …. and i bought the current Camry only to know that the new one is on its way, i would've burnt down that particular branch, and curse his sons, daughters and all of his family. :D
motorhead said,
"i recpect your endless efford to explain the people about this issue.. go ahead, keep up with the good work.. your BM oso not bad… i guess u got A for BM in your SPM.. rite?"
Ahem,…… to be frank I got C3 in BM subject for SPM, but A in Kertas Am, STPM
So previously "Biggie" said I am "literary genius" in English,
Just for your info, I "score" 9 (failed) in SRP, "cangkul" @ 7 in SPM. Of course all is history as I improve my command of language throughout my education up to post-graduate level at one of U (still rank better than UM in THES) at UK. But I am layman and not specialist in automotive field!
Motorhead said
"i recpect your endless efford to explain the people about this issue.. go ahead, keep up with the good work.. your BM oso not bad… i guess u got A for BM in your SPM.. rite?"
For you info, ahm,…. I got C3 for BM in SPM, A for Kertas Am in STPM.
Previously "Biggie" said I am "literary genius" in English.
Thank for that, but just for info, I "SCORED" 9 (failed) in SRP, "cangkul" @ 7 in SPM for English subject. However, this is "history" as I improve the command of English over the time up to my post-graduate education at one of U (better ranking than UM in THES) at UK. Anyway, I am just a layman and not specialist in auto sector.
"Mr. Paul.. look like this auto forum of yours ve become like political forum.. is ok aa..?? bole or not?"
Joe Ooi – It shall be more than political forum as it is affect other aspects like social, economy, technology, engineering, etc. But one thing for sure is Proton issues waste a lot of everybody time and Paul Tan's blog space. If today our car sector embrace open market! We are definitely enjoy and exhange a lot of information on latest cars model, lowest pricing, spoilt for choice, etc. Believe it or not! just go to MSN auto section, you will find the true!
C3 for BM??.. same as mine la.. A for for kertas am, good what??.. but i am from matrix so i didnt take STPM…
Yea.. i think we all should continue our endless effort.. don't let people die everyday, just bcoz they can not afford to buy cars fitted with airbags, ABS & etc… we all have the right to get the latest tech. & safety features.. we have proton & national autos so the people will get the benefit & better life, not to make our life miserable & worse.. or else we r all against it..
– Quote –
Joe Ooi said:
Joe Ooi – bagaimana jika kita banding dengan negara bangun yang lain, jiran kita di utara? Thailand, cukai pendapatan Thailand secara relatif masih rendah, harga kereta rendah, harga minyak mengikut pasaran dunia (lebih tinggi dari Malaysia, tetapi kita adalah pengekspot minyak), Leburaya mereka tidak ada tol. Mereka masih ada lebuhraya, Universiti, hospital,dan kemudahan awam yang lain.
– Qoute –
Kinda interesting to read across your endless efforts to explain to others all about P1 just remind me previously another guy did the same things to 2 junky pumpkins.
OK, i agreed to most of the parts, u told us everythings liao. Just to point out something quite misleading:
– Thailand highway have tols, in fact quite many. But, u can choose either travel through normal road or take the high rise highway, mostly almost same direction. Traffic jam during peak hour is really terrible even compare to KL, easily take up u few hours to travel few km. Highway are packed with cars, however… no way to escape.
– Thailand income tax rather low bcoz the peoples' salary are more or less just enof. Generally, their earning relatively lower than M'sian, so for sure income tax relatively low as well. But anyway, their living cost relatively lower also. I mean for general public like foods and garments. Need to stress that clothes sale at shopping complex are really expensive, more expensive than M'sia sometimes coz they have massive tourists around. Actually, tourism is their biggest foreign income.
OK, just my 2 cents… go ahead to talk more lessons. :)
again, their living cost relatively lower but not including the fuel price. Thais generally can afford for most of the cars, but not the sucking fuel price. They actually keep complaint about this and envy us too, i mean before price hike for 30 cents.
Actually we can afford to buy safe (airbag, ABS, etc), quality and afforable cars if our motor industry embrace open market. Unfortunately NAP and Proton existence resulted in making the majority of motorist (base on percentage of P1 and P2 cars) "expose" to unsafe, inferior yet high price cars, which partly contribute to increase in fatalities in accidents, which our G never revealed.
Not only that, previously, our government consider to raise highway speed from 110 kmh to 120 kmh but cited high accidents rate as "NO… NO…" to this proposal. However, G also claim that our highway (PLUS) is built according to international standard. In UK, the motorway top speed is 110 mph (3 lanes) and for highway is 90 mph (2 lanes). That means our highway top speed shall be 170kmh (3 lanes, e.g. ELITE) and 140kmh (2 lanes, East Coast Highway). With P1 and P2 cars doesn't meet required safety standard and relatively small cc to drive at higher speed may prone to more accidents. This further compound by some of our drivers behavior also like "idiot" couple with "lesen kopi" make the road more dangerous for other motorist.
Therefore, we are suffer to pay hiigh price and not only not enjoying quality yet value for money cars, but also we are highway user also deny to drive at maximum speed (e.g. 170kmh or 140kmh), yet have to pay toll! WTF.
Can you imagine German, with high quality and afforable (by their living standard) Merc, BMW, Audi, VW, Continental cars, they are not only enjoy to their fullest the luxury and confort the car market can offer, but can enjoy at no speed limit autobahn (normally self impose speed of not more than 250kmh)! We Malaysian as motorist! suffering "Protonphobia syndrome" with low guality, no safety, yet high price car with speed limit even below international standard! We are below international standard in highway (speed limit) and car (no safety, low quality). The only above international standard Proton can achieve is the price!
I think joe ooi and the gang are always dreaming to have cheaper car, there are so jealous with the person that they called croc
Let’s do some calculations.
Ok let say there are 50 persons that we can call them croc, and the have asset RM1Billion each… I am not sure how many people we can call them croc/ AP king?, but I think billionaire in Malaysia is less than 50 peoples
Now imagine we killed all this croc and rampas dia punya harta
RM 1 Billion X 50 croc
=RM50 Billion
…..and we close and sell proton for RM5Billion ( proton asset worth RM5Billion)
= RM 50 Billion + 5 Billion
=RM55Billion
Now we have RM55 billion, but we need to share all this with all people that have intention to buy a car… Malaysian population is about 28 million; Ok just take 10 million Malaysian yang dah cukup dewasa untuk beli kereta
RM 50Billion/ 10 million people = RM5500 ONLY
~RM100 000 car price – RM5500 is nothing
How can we get cheaper car with RM5000 discount after killing all this crocs?
The fact is higher car price is dominated by government tax… and this tax is returned back to rakyat in form of development…. Not much profit to feed the crocs and proton
….and as I said government should impose tax to the car buyer as this is direct mechanisms to identify who qualify to pay for the tax
kalau dah mampu beli kereta mahal… mesti mampu tanggung cukai…
I know there are many of you who just got a new car in the past 1-2 years. It is really painful to see the price of same car drop significantly. But again, when we make the decision to buy the car previously, I think we should have evaluate the relevant risk (including price drop, more discount given due to older model, better looking face-lifts, more freebies, etc.) .
The problem is that, we are too used to price increase in both car and properties because of the trends over the years. I have seen salesman warning their customers that the price is about to increase due to whatever reason (excuses like new NAP policy, higher material cost, higher exchange rate, government restriction to sell at cheaper price, etc) with the intention to force the customer to make a emotional buy.
Why are the prices for Honda City and Toyota Vios increased over the years compare when they were first launched? They claimed that the previous NAP was calculated wrongly and result in higher payable tax. Now, the readjustment of the NAP, should immediate result in price reduction.
If you happen to buy a car recently, why should you be bother about the current car price. It wouldn’t affect your month installment unless you are going to trade in your car soon. Even so, you may also be compensated the lower new car price. Bare in mind that purchasing a car has never been an investment (except for the case of Wira many years ago).
Decreasing the price gradually wouldn’t help at all because anyhow, this is happening to old model over time (that’s why car vendors are offering discount, facelift, etc over time). Do you really feel better If reducing the car price gradually and slowly?
At last, be a wise consumer and know your rights.
1st time comment here.
On the topic. Since so many not happy wif G and NAP. Why not just vote d opposition in the next election. Give d opposition bigger say & power. D last election saw BN won big, 91% of total seats, and many did not turn out to vote!
Was particularly interested in Public & Joe Ooi's comments.
On P1, yes, there are many big fat ‘crocs’. FYI.
Salary scale in P1:
Head of section – RM6k & above
Head of dept. – RM8K & above
Head of division – RM10k & above
GM – duno
Director – duno
Bonus – average 3 – 4 months
Free (company) cars + free fuel usage + subsidiced interest rates (on purchase cars) + lower car purchase price (staff price) + subsidiced interest on housing loan + etc….
So, we’re not just paying taxs, but also their livelihood!!!
I nak tanya Public, mana rakyat keseluruhan ada menikmati 'pembangunan' yang sewajarnya??? Siapakah yang benar-benar menikmati 'pembangunan' ini?? Jawapan anda, saya tak ingin tahu. Jawap kepada anda sendiri sudah cukup!
Now, I dun wana comment on P2 & Petronas, coz it'll just hurt more….
All in all, NAP is not meant for whole rakyat. NAP is another branch out of NEP baru. Please read the official text of NAP by G. It's mentioned there, although indirectly…
public said,
March 28, 2006 @ 4:42 pm
This is my personal opinion only.
Public – "I think joe ooi and the gang are always dreaming to have cheaper car, there are so jealous with the person that they called croc"
Joe Ooi – This is to clarify that I am interested in "lower price" yet value for money car. I already explain in detail from economic perspective the different
between "cheap/expensive" and "lower/highest" price car. Yet you look like can't understand. ""Cheap" means everyone basically can afford it, "expensive" means almost everyone can't afford it – it measure in two extreme conditions, albeit minimum and maximum point". Whereas "lower/higher price" is relative/comparative in perspective, therefore, our cars prices is high (not expensive) COMPARE to "prevailence market price in the world", say Thailand. If we talk about cars, no one is cheap even in US open market! It cost at least few USD K to acquire it?
I am not jealous with so call "croc", but just to voice out my dissatisfaction as consumer complaining about high price for the car.
Public – "Let’s do some calculations.
Ok let say there are 50 persons that we can call them croc, and the have asset RM1Billion each… I am not sure how many people we can call them croc/ AP king?, but I think billionaire in Malaysia is less than 50 peoples"
Joe Ooi – You assume 50, yet you are "not sure,……croc/AP king", what a self contradictory statement. I am not numeritis, but fairly to say I am convince subsequent calculation is a "Big Joke". Let me proof it,……… If our country have 50 billionaire, first thing to do is report to income tax department, this crocs not only suck us, but evade tax as well! Not kill them, but "tangkap them hidup-hidup"
Public – "Now imagine we killed all this croc and rampas dia punya harta
RM 1 Billion X 50 croc
=RM50 Billion
…..and we close and sell proton for RM5Billion ( proton asset worth RM5Billion)
= RM 50 Billion + 5 Billion
=RM55Billion
Now we have RM55 billion, but we need to share all this with all people that have intention to buy a car… Malaysian population is about 28 million; Ok just take 10 million Malaysian yang dah cukup dewasa untuk beli kereta
RM 50Billion/ 10 million people = RM5500 ONLY
~RM100 000 car price – RM5500 is nothing
How can we get cheaper car with RM5000 discount after killing all this crocs?
Joe Ooi – This raise more questions than answer calculation! big joke!
1. Previously I mentioned the over-tax is "around RM 8.66 Billions for 2004 alone? How about for Proton’s existence period of 20 years ++? The sum involved should be added “Billions exponentiallyâ€? Perhaps in excess of well over RM 100 Billions!" – so it is not RM 50 Billions!
2. Can we divide RM 55 Billions/10 million people? Where is the logic, we talk about cars, not human head! At least do proper groundwork by say refer to MAA statistic on car sales volume! Perhaps "Motorhead" will understand the method of calculation as I already feed him relevant info.
3. The "average" mentioned here is discount RM 5.5 K for RM 100K car. How simplify this calculation without any basis? Just for your indication, Proton Perdana 2.0L sale at RM 100K ++, if export to US, then it must sold at below RM 68 (USD 18K for Camry 2.4L), in my calculation around RM 60K. So it is discount of RM 40K, not RM 5.5K.
4. By killing all the "crocs" and Proton, we can protect our right as consumers to enjoy afforable car at lowest price, good quality, value for money and safe car.
5. So, what kind of calculation you mentioned here? Just kidding or big joker!
Public – The fact is higher car price is dominated by government tax… and this tax is returned back to rakyat in form of development…. Not much profit to feed the crocs and proton
Joe Ooi – It is government social responsibilities to return tax collected and spend on development. Unfortunately, the tax money spend on setting up Proton havn't recover, yet consumers still have to "subsidize" by pay high price on cars to sustain Proton existence. This is very contentious issue, we shall enjoy the benefits of development, not let Proton inflicting huge economy cost to Rakyat! I think all this mentioned many time yet "Public" can't get through the message!
You say not much profit to feed crocs and Proton, do more groundwork on how much AP King make, RM 20K per AP (on paper only lol)! Yes not much Proton make profit, but a lot of "subsidize" money by consumers use o sustain Proton! In term of RM Billions per year to cover it "profit as well as losses".
1st time comment here.
On the topic. Since so many not happy wif G and NAP. Why not just vote d opposition in the next election. Give d opposition bigger say & power. D last election saw BN won big, 91% of total seats, and many did not turn out to vote!
Public said:
—
Now imagine we killed all this croc and rampas dia punya harta. Now we have RM55 billion, but we need to share all this with all people that have intention to buy a car… Malaysian population is about 28 million; Ok just take 10 million Malaysian yang dah cukup dewasa untuk beli kereta
RM 50Billion/ 10 million people = RM5500 ONLY
~RM100 000 car price – RM5500 is nothing
How can we get cheaper car with RM5000 discount after killing all this crocs?
—-
Quoted by PEKEMA president Datuk Abdul Hamid Ibrahim.
"The Government had never supported us and did not give us a chance. It must assist us now and I hope that it will be done."
—-
I vote what Public said on last calculation is the next millenium joke, after Datuk Abd Hamid Ibrahim.
The most funniest comment i had ever read, sigh… sigh…
I manage to catch pos of 100th comment.
So, Paul, you really post a good blog to start another debate ground, maybe you unexpected this oso…
It seems that Public does not have basic MacroEconomic Idea. I suggested he should go to take Introduction to Macro Economy 101. The calculation is totally out of reality.
He looks at the co-relation is such simple that the wealth of those AP King all distributed equally to all the car consumers.
He neglected the fact by killing all those AP King and Proton, the Automotive Industry becomes more competitive. Consumers have more spending power due to more cheaper and quality cars available. THis is going to stimulate the nation's economy in every single sector that relates to Automotive Industry from engine design down to marketing. Being a competive car market in ASEAN region also going to attract more foreign car makers establish their assembly plants and that will create jobs. Their investment and job creation are going to make our people earn the income and don't forget foreign car makers do need to pay taxes on their business.
More foreign car made here means you need forwarder service to export the cars to overseas and it is going to benefit our local transporter as well. That is just one of the examples how this is going to benefit our country in terms of tax and stimulate our country's economy.
In short, Automotive Industry Competitiveness is not only going to stimulate more consumers' cash flow to the market but is going to keep other sub sectors being dynamic as well. Eventually, a great nation's economy ideally is being in a dynamic state. Limited wealth or cash flow to certain party (a couple AP King and Proton) is not going to help the economy as the certain party may not bring out all the cashflow it has to keep the entire nation's economy being dynamism.
Public fail to see the importance of nation's economy dynamism and yet by distributing the wealth of AP KIng or Proton according to his calculation model will actually bring more additional wealth to the nation than what he claims as RM5.5K per person he could ever imagine.
Economy's dynamism involves a lot of co-relation factors. It is not simply 1+1=2, my friend…If it is such simple, you should be holding Alan Greenspan's job by now…
Feel sorry for Public. It seems like everyone's bashin him/her up. Anyway, no offence yeah. It's a democratic country.
But, hello… people, we should be turning our attention to G and turn it into actions. Im not in favor of demos. But would like to see a change of G, or significant reduction in BN's power. Now, if dat happens, how would things change?
No more protection on P1/ P2, more meritocracy on economic distribution of nation's wealth, instead of saying 'some' need more assistance.
I agree with KingHenry14's comment, but economic dynamism should not limit to automotive industry only. And with present G in power, it seems little will/ has change(d) in the way they govern, unless we (rakyat) kick their butts out of parlimen.
But, then again, would there be chaos if BN really got toppled?? I wouldn't want that. Guess I'm out of topic here, sorry.
wc5be said,
March 28, 2006 @ 5:50 pm
D last election saw BN won big, 91% of total seats, and many did not turn out to vote!
============================================
Many did not turn up or the voters list has been modified? Tepuk dada tanya selera…
*cabutz*
THANKS, JOE OOI.
After one night, the message has grown so much. In fact, you have open my mind to look into more features than cheaper cars, like safety, comfort, fuel savings and etc.
TO chanlman
My personal opinion is never look into "cheaper" but shall look into "lower price" car. I already mentioned to "Public" as above that from economic perspective, the different between "cheap/expensive" and "lower/higher" price! The jargon "cheap/expensive" is normally use by biz community to outdo each other in their price war, which is "deceiving" the consumers. Example, one oversea own hypermarket in Klang Valley slogan is "Cheap get cheaper" is purely "marketing jargon" design to make "footprint" in consumer mind that their products and services is "cheap"! Don't want to elaborate further as it is out of topic!
wc5be said,
March 28, 2006 @ 8:55 pm
"But, hello… people, we should be turning our attention to G and turn it into actions. Im not in favor of demos. But would like to see a change of G, or significant reduction in BN’s power. Now, if dat happens, how would things change?"
Joe Ooi – We shall look thing in macro perspective, we basically do not necessary reduce current government majority or vote in new G. This is because the issue here is change the NAP and change the Proton, not necessary change G eventhough G have a hand on it! But the question is it is definitely difficult to do it as currently G, especially MITI are infested with a lot of big fat crocs. However, we can see the light at the end of tunnel, as world class "crocodile hunters" (e.g. AFTA, WTO, other FTA, etc) is starting hunting them (AP King and NAP) down! These fat big crocs in fact now very worry as they get use to "ready abundance food" ("capture consumers") and now with "fat and overweight" body have to "hunt for food in level field ("open market"). Eventually, the likely scenario is we as "players" (consumers) do not need to worry about "uneven playing field" (bad quality, high price no safety car) as we can enjoy good time to "play football" (drive car) at the future "level playing field" (open market) in a manner that is confortable, safe, and of course free from "encumbrances" (NAP & AP Kings).
"No more protection on P1/ P2, more meritocracy on economic distribution of nation’s wealth, instead of saying ’some’ need more assistance.
I agree with KingHenry14’s comment, but economic dynamism should not limit to automotive industry only. And with present G in power, it seems little will/ has change(d) in the way they govern, unless we (rakyat) kick their butts out of parlimen."
Joe Ooi – If "internal force ("soundless" voter and consumers) can't change them, then let G comply with external force (WTO, AFTA, etc). We have to be "patient" a little bit to see gradual changes, which is inevitable. "Overnight" changes is impossible and not good as it affect many parties!
"But, then again, would there be chaos if BN really got toppled?? I wouldn’t want that. Guess I’m out of topic here, sorry."
Joe Ooi – Democracy word is derived from Greece word "demo" and "cratos". Demo means the people, and "cratos" means governance. That means democracy can simply define as "a government elected, formed and governed by peoples". There won't be any chaos as far as our constitution, law and order and democratic value is upheld". The only "chaos" if BN really got toppled is the crocs, AP King, or for those who really bersih, cekap dan amanah people in BN lost their jobs (political appointments), e.g. ministers, councillor, etc. Don't worry, everytime election, BN will employ "divide and rule" tactic to create "fear factor" in the form of "chaos", so that every one of us quickly give vote to them.
hm.. so, what should we do, as public? thanks… :)
Below is the list of 20 richest in Malaysia,
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/20…
Total asset for 40 richest in Malaysia only RM78B and from the list none of them come from auto industry. How can you say that crocs has total asset more than RM100B? Don’t just type and publish something baseless without do your own research
the last no 20 richest men has only RM500mill and he still not the one that you call crocs….so probably the real crocs has total asset only around 300mil each X ~50 crocs = ~RM15B only
and now if you are not happy with 10 million head count, let’s have a look on this car sales figure
http://www.antara.co.id/en/seenws/?id=8447
Last year 2005, half million cars has been sold… if we seen 1 new car (latest 1 year) on the rod…. there are about 20cars on the same rood is old car (more than 1 year) so 0.5Million x 20 = 10Million car on the present Malaysian road. 10millon car in Malaysian road looks logic figure as Selangor only have more than 1million car
Ok now if we kill crocs and rampas diorang punya asset RM15B + close and sell proton for RM5B = 20B…and dilute to 10 million car on the rod now, each car will got price reduction around RM2000 ONLY.. so again I want to stress that higher car price is due to G tax… very-very little to feed crocs and proton
Government need money (tax) for physical develop in our country … no point if you can buy brand new world-class car, but no road to drive
I think joi ooi and the gang have problem to understand what is value… they just know how to compare number
They always judges that number RM2 is more than number RM1, without realise that sometimes, in certain circumstances number RM1 can be more than number RM2.
Let consider this story.
Mr A work in his own palm oil estate in Pahang, everyday he use kapcai EX5 to go to work, he earns RM1000 per month.
Mr B work in a multinational company in PJ, everyday he drive brand new Honda civic to go to work, he earns RM10 000 per month.
If you don’t know the actual story …Mr B looks richer than Mr A… got RM10 000 per month is richer than got RM1000 per month
But the real story is Mr A lived in Felda Sendayan… he has RM1.5 million in bank account, got compensation from government for his land, he just bought new estate in Pahang for RM100k, similar size with his previous estate. And Mr B has a child with serious kidney problem, every month Mr B need to spend RM7000 for treatment, the company that Mr B work is going to close down by end of this year to move to china, So now if you know the actual story… who is richer?
So don’t just believe what you has seen or sensed.. use your head to understand the whole picture
Why do you always compare our economy with American? and always dreaming to live like American ….If we compare number (1USD) to number (1RM) …Yes American have cheaper car price on paper… from 100% income they just need to spend 15% for car compared to Malaysian ~40%…
As I said American has to pay very high income tax.. that is around 25% but Malaysian income tax is very low, if you earn RM5000-RM10000 , tax is about 3%… so comparison number (1USD) to number (1RM), American 25%+15% is not much difference with Malaysian 40%+3%.
Of curse American has better live than Malaysian…but who Malaysia to compare with America?
… America has very-very huge economy… … they has world class products that can be sell around the world… they have Microsoft, levis, KFC, coca-cola, Walt Disney, Star Buck…and lots of world class company, and all these companies pumps not just number, but value to the US economy…. What Malaysia have to offer to the world? Kelapa sawit??? and we expecting our money /economy similar to US???
If we dreaming to have ‘world-class products’, we should also offer ‘world-class product’ to the world… that is basic in doing business… if we want to buy something… we should have (something = money) that have similar value to that product.
Pls understand where the value for our money comes from…. Don’t think that we can simply spend our money to import product from outside… most of us don’t have cash to buy a car, we need loan from bank… but where the bank got money to give loan ..Do you think Bank Negara simply put the number on a paper and call that paper as our money?????????????
If our government give permission to all rakyat to apply loan and import car… the impact on our economy is disaster… our RM value will drop.. and again we still need to pay higher to buy our car
…and that wouldn’t happen…So ooi and the gang… stop dreaming to have cheaper car now.. go to work.. work hard enough so that you can buy your dreaming car at what ever price set by our (government? – set by value of our RM actually)
Good luck.
Just to add, all the money from the taxes we paid be it from the cars, income and etc are being channelled into GLC to save them bankrupt.. Take MAS for example of companies that needs G help. P1 is only one of the issues that we are not satisfied with. Can we vote for a change next time.
Pubilc..
U dont understand the isu here… NAP & proton.. dont forget.. cars were much cheaper b4 proton around.. i guess ur butt still blue that time..
i still remember last time my dad bought Volkswagen for RM6k…. eventhough it was not cheap that time, but my dad was only a gred C gov staff.. still could afford to buy brand new Volks…. a gred C staff now can buy a motor cub la… cars?? forget it la..
Vote for BN?.. Hell no!!!
my dad was gov staff too. bought his 1st car, a mazda for less den rm10k. after few yrs, changed to accord, less den rm15k. but dat was b4 P1 was born la. hehe…
See…?? how poton have changed our life… no cut throat excise duty, malaysia oso doin fine… people oso were very happy…
public, can u dig that sucka??
no need to wait for poll.. lets boycot poton for good… sorry MD Syed Zainal… but you r on hot seat… u should stay with P2….
So far i conclude that talk & suggesstion are cheap. I don't want to sound political but the only solution is VOTE, you guys have a great weekend…… end.
Public :"…Yes American have cheaper car price on paper… from 100% income they just need to spend 15% for car compared to Malaysian ~40%…
As I said American has to pay very high income tax.. that is around 25% but Malaysian income tax is very low, if you earn RM5000-RM10000 , tax is about 3%… so comparison number (1USD) to number (1RM), American 25%+15% is not much difference with Malaysian 40%+3%. "
OpenMind:
Sorry to comment on this, but, you are wrong in the above mentioned statement. Firstly, for people earning 5k – 10k, the effectively tax rate is more than 10% for people earning 10k monthly. Try the excelsheet from hasilnet to simulate the tax.
Secondly, the tax payable in US covers more "benefits". For example, their petrol price is not too much more expensive than us, more free highway (please compare how many tolls we have in Klang Valley and compare these figure with the few major states in US. Dont get me wrong, I am not suggesting that we are being ripped off here in Malaysia. I personally feel that the tax is reasonable. For Singapore, they might be paying lower tax (% wise) than us.
Thirdly, the cars in US is really affordable (in relative to their average salary). Murano is only causing about RM110k for basic model in US, and here it costs more than RM200k. Sure, it might be fair just to compare expensive car, but the reality is with the same amount of money (same RM), we can buy a much better (safer) car in US than in Malaysia. This is excluding their higher earning due to conversion.
Lastly, there are also things which are cheap in Malaysia, but since we are discussin g about car, then I can only make a conclusion that on car price perspective, US is the place to be.
hmm… if public really wana compare, i'll share my experience in uk.
i lived there few years.
in uk, u can buy a 2nd hand car if u work p/time. avg salary p/t there is 5.00, same as m'sia. in msia, u work p/time wif same salary, can u afford to buy a 2nd hand car?? only can buy a bike.
If you buy a car just because of the 2nd had value, your head is screwed on backwards. Buy a car to use it, to enjoy it.
This "good 2nd hand value so I buy" mentality is part of the reason we have so many ppl buying ugly cars!!!