LMG Tourer with Hydroxene technology

lmg_tourer.jpg

Some of you may remember a piece of news in July where a team of Universiti Sains Malaysia researches led by Dr Syamsul Rizal Abd Shukor came up with a way to produce hydrogen in a system compact enough to be fitted into a car. The system involved using waste aluminium metal and sodium hydroxide to separate water into it’s components – hydrogen and oxygen.

While I’m not sure if the new Hydroxene system in LMG’s new pick-ups and SUVs are based on the results of this USM research, it works very similiarly.

hydroxene_small.jpg

Click the image above for a larger diagram from LMG explaining how the Hydroxene technology works. Hydrogen fuel has been researched extensively by both Mazda with their Hydrogen Renesis engine as well as BMW with their hydrogen powered V12 7-series, but these technologies never made it into the production line because of trouble separating hydrogen from water.

lmg_trekker_9.jpg

Any of you remember the Mercedes Benz F600 Hygenius Concept I posted a long time ago? That car ran on hydrogen as well. Where to get this hydrogen has always been a problem. LMG’s on-board electrolysis device could be the catalyst to a new generation of fuel saving hybrids. For now, LMG’s system runs on a mix of both petrol and hydrogen, but a pure hydrogen system would definitely be possible. The mixture of petrol and water results in an effective reduction in fuel consumption of up to 50%. These systems have been available as a bolt on device before, but this is likely the first system that comes with a production car.

Read more about the new LMG vehicles:
LMG Trekker Details
LMG Tourer Details

Related Readings:
HFT Sdn Bhd’s hydrogen fuel system

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Paul Tan

After dabbling for years in the IT industry, Paul Tan initially began this site as a general blog covering various topics of personal interest. With an increasing number of readers paying rapt attention to the motoring stories, one thing led to another and the rest, as they say, is history.

 

Comments

  • stephen_ksf (Member) on Aug 15, 2006 at 10:55 pm

    wow!! "just add water" wonder its a msian technology or chinese technology…

    http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v3/news_lite.php?i…

    the article stated that it were developed by local scientists which used a revolutionary fuel technology called hydroxene….

    so i guess its msian technology…

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  • renyeo (Member) on Aug 15, 2006 at 10:55 pm

    The fundamental law of physics states that it requires more energy to split water into hydrogen than the energy it produces.

    If LMG could manage to put into production a working water engine, then it is really a revolutionary breakthrough. Almost good for a Nobel Prize Award because they had just overturned the established laws.

    I still couldn't believe my eyes…

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  • tiredguy (Member) on Aug 15, 2006 at 10:56 pm

    amazing!!!

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  • Akazamabamaboo (Member) on Aug 15, 2006 at 11:18 pm

    The fundamental law of aesthetics states that an aesthetically challenged car would not be as popular as a beautifully made car if they were both similarly priced. Anyone caught breaking the law could face prosecution in the court of justice. The jury's decisions are final…bla bla bla…

    Anyway, LMG's Hydroxene technology sounds pretty impressive to me. 50% reduction in fuel consumption? I reckon you could increase that figure if the technology is planted in a more aerodynamically efficient bodyshell. It is a step in the right direction, though. Now let us wait for test drive reports and see if the "SUV" actually does what it is supposed to do… :D

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  • ec (Member) on Aug 15, 2006 at 11:20 pm

    Heard of this tech10 yrs ago, from one of my friend doing science subject in local Uni.

    He explained to me a lot of those big science wordings, and since I was not a science maniac, so just remember of spliting the H2O into H and O, and let the H move the engine. But he warned also this H is a kind of substance that easily erupt… thinking it is almost the same as what the posting here.

    Correct me if I am wrong.

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  • rexis (Member) on Aug 15, 2006 at 11:26 pm

    The diagram didn't explain much about the process thou except we know hydrogen and oxygen will be injected with petrol/diesel into combustion chamber.

    We not even know it is electrolysis or something else happening in this magic canister. I dont like it, I want more prove.

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  • nicolas (Member) on Aug 15, 2006 at 11:28 pm

    it reminds me of this news….
    http://www.fuelcellsworks.com/Supppage4726.html

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 15, 2006 at 11:42 pm

    LMG said 50% less fuel consumtion, and we suppose to swallow it? Yes, more detail explaination please.

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 15, 2006 at 11:44 pm

    >>

    Yes, If through electrolisis. But i want more info form LMG. Do they have their own website?

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 15, 2006 at 11:45 pm

    "renyeo said,

    The fundamental law of physics states that it requires more energy to split water into hydrogen than the energy it produces."

    Yes, If through electrolisis. But i want more info form LMG. Do they have their own website?

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  • renyeo (Member) on Aug 15, 2006 at 11:48 pm

    Electrolysis is used to split water and that's the only method currently known to man.

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  • rexis (Member) on Aug 15, 2006 at 11:55 pm

    another method of electrolysis:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-temperature_ele… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur-iodine_cycle
    but you wont be able to fit it inside a car, you need a nuclear reactor for it.

    So, how the hell do they produce H2 and O2 with the magic canister??? O.o"

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  • rexis (Member) on Aug 15, 2006 at 11:58 pm

    Paul,

    A little bit of error up there! Mercedes Benz F600 Hygenius Concept should store hydrogen in a compressed gas tank, fuel cell is merely a power generator that consume hydrogen as fuel.

    When you say store hydrogen in fuel cell is like I say store diesel in D4D. :p

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  • motorhead (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:05 am

    Damn.. this is a major breaktrough… aisey.. now i really penin.. should i proceed with my vios booking.. or wait another few years, bcoz if they can really comersialize this car, that wud mean our old conventional engine wud be obsolete, in just few years to come.. whoa!!.. ini LMG cukup pandai simpan rahsia.. now major auto makers mesti takut their cars tak laku… including p1… this news really blows my mind.. so many questions in my head..

    ps: patut la toyota agressively promote their cars…

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  • ... (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:05 am

    You need ENERGY to perform electrolysis. You can't just flow water through a catalyst and voila it is seperated into hydrogen and oxygen. Usually we use electricity to perform electrolysis. So hydrogen fuel is only enviromentally friendly if the electrolysis process is enviromentally friendly. So this compact hydrogen electrolysis system thingy sounds very2 fishy.

    From the pics i can assume that the water is only used for in cylinder water injection, a system found on huge piston-engined airplanes and rally cars.

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  • fookeatmin1989 (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:07 am

    UNBELIEVABLE??

    If this is the case…it would be the first production car using water as supplementary fuel!!!!!!!!!!!!WOW!!WOW!!WOW!!

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:08 am

    "rexis said,

    A little bit of error up there! Mercedes Benz F600 Hygenius Concept should store hydrogen in a compressed gas tank, fuel cell is merely a power generator that consume hydrogen as fuel.

    When you say store hydrogen in fuel cell is like I say store diesel in D4D. :p "

    Yes, rexis is right.

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:11 am

    "fookeatmin1989 said,

    UNBELIEVABLE??

    If this is the case…it would be the first production car using water as supplementary fuel!!!!!!!!!!!!WOW!!WOW!!WOW!!"

    Very very dubious claim from LMG. Those pamphlet explain nothing.

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  • asimo (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:12 am

    this technology is made by Malaysian, Dr Syamsul Rizal Abd Shuko..Today in buletin 1.30 pak lah launch the car and tv3 interviews Dr Syamsul.Amazing..really make me proud.Malayisan technology.belive it or not..malaysia boleh

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  • asimo (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:15 am

    website lmg

    www.lmautoworld.com

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  • renyeo (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:20 am

    Yes, we need energy to perform electrolysis. But what I am curious about is where does LMG's Hydroxene draws its power to perform the electrolysis? From the car battery? Then the Hydroxene must be a low energy consumption unit. This is where the breakthrough is: energy produced is greater than the energy used to produce it.

    There are researchers using solar panels to generate the electricity to split water. In this case, it is call Over-Unity (OU) and is the cleanest method and most sustainable form of producing energy without contributing to pollution.

    Water hydrogen engine is more than a supplementary fuel. It can be a Free Energy engine – an engine totally fueled by hydrogen derived from water – water that flows off you water tap!

    Hang on to that car purchase of yours. 12 months from now, you may be driving a water hybrid hydrogen car.

    So what will happen to Petronas?! Has Badawi thought about it?!

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  • dav.kk (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:22 am

    Let me explian in plain language what is that all about? If you in sciene stream you be able to grasp this easly. H20 is the composition in plain water, in order to get hyrdogen, we need to perform a step called eletcrolysis ,the end result is 2 part of hyrdogen gas and one part of oxygen gas.

    The hyrdogen generator idea is noble in view of the current oil crisis. But in order to get it working

    alot of electricity needed extract the hyrdogen, which will put alot of strain in the alternator in typical car or truck.Typical car need the around 70-80% of the power output to charge the battery, to power the car brain (ECU), combustion, light, air con, radio and typical electric motor.

    Now i hope you get my idea, with the hyrodgen generator it will draw extra 40% -50% of the alternator power out put easliy in order to generate the hyrdogen and put it back to combustion, What they claimed if can save fuel up to 50%, in other words a mixture of 50% hyrdogen and 50% fuel. Wow …..Bang …..you have a good marketing scheme. In order to generate the 50% hyrdogen

    it will need enermous of electricity , ( i dunno the figure) but wild guess at least 50% to 60% of electricity, which leaving around 40% electricity for the car essential function, as i a said typical car need around 70-80% to run efficiently. This will cause deficit in power output which had to bear by the car battery.Which mean you need to change battery more . or if u sitting in traffic jam and the switch off the aircon and radio you may be able to achieve that 50% petrol saving………..

    Another point, this car is made from CHINA , it may look good and feel good, but the quality is questionable

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  • w_lighter (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:22 am

    Under construction..

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:22 am

    asimo,

    Thanks for the website.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:24 am

    renyeo,

    Petronas will be doing just fine.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • w_lighter (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:27 am

    They proabably reluctant to tell the secret out. Something like when the would first disc brake was produce la. It was a secret for several year before the american knew how to do it. Another example is the famous WD40. Till now only a handfull of ppl know its formula. But someone need to go and test this car first before we can say wether this tech actually makes the car drive more slugish or just as normal. coz if its the former than might be another dead technology in the ditch till someone perfected it again.

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  • rexis (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:31 am

    renyeo, you are talking about a "perpetual machine", at our current understand of physic, energy and matter can neither be destroyed or created. Perpetual machine is impossible.

    That means the energy must come from somewhere, no such thing is energy generated more then energy invested.

    Before yous start worrying about petronas or shell, worry about physic first.

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:38 am

    "rexis said,

    no such thing is energy generated more then energy invested."

    Usually the reverse is true. :)

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  • dav.kk (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:39 am

    Let me explian in plain language what is that all about? If you in sciene stream you be able to grasp this easly. H20 is the composition in plain water, in order to get hyrdogen, we need to perform a step called eletcrolysis ,the end result is 2 part of hyrdogen gas and one part of oxygen gas.

    The hyrdogen generator idea is noble in view of the current oil crisis. But in order to get it working

    alot of electricity needed extract the hyrdogen, which will put alot of strain in the alternator in typical car or truck.Typical car need the around 70-80% of the power output to charge the battery, to power the car brain (ECU), combustion, light, air con, radio and typical electric motor.

    Now i hope you get my idea, with the hyrodgen generator it will draw extra 40% -50% of the alternator power out put easliy in order to generate the hyrdogen and put it back to combustion, What they claimed if can save fuel up to 50%, in other words a mixture of 50% hyrdogen and 50% fuel. Wow …..Bang …..you have a good marketing scheme.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • malayman (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:49 am

    i still dont get this…it runs completely on water or a combination of both water and fuel combustion?

    if can run completely on water then why put a fuel tank?

    whoa…not much details on this huh?

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:51 am

    "dav.kk said,

    Typical car need the around 70-80% of the power output to charge the battery, to power the car brain (ECU), combustion, light, air con, radio and typical electric motor."

    70-80% of power output is used just to power electrical system? Are you sure? Now you left with 20-30% of power output to make the car moving. :)

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  • rexis (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:55 am

    ahhh dav.kk explanation is plain enough.

    wow, malayman, read dav.kk post three times first and try to process it with your brain… and now, think again, how can a car powered by only water?

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  • rexis (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 12:59 am

    MyBoy, I think dav.kk means "70-80% of the power output from the alternator" and the alternator consumed part of the horsepower produce by the engine.

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 1:03 am

    rexis,

    Thanks for the clarification.

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  • liquidx (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 1:11 am

    such technology is very dubious for me. anyway, just look and see what its gonna be like.

    asimo, errmm very familiar nickname to me :)

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  • 4G63T DSM (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 3:44 am

    Sounds fishy to me.

    You "just" can't split a water molecule into hydrogen and oxygen with a catalyst. To split water, you have to use a energy consuming electrolysis procedure to split it, and having a self contained system is not feasible since you can't get "free" energy. Power from the alternator will add additional load to the engine making it less efficient.

    However, as stated using aluminum and Sodium Hydroxide, you could use a chemical reaction to free H from H20. We have all played with Lithium/Sodium (Natrium or Kalium for those in M'sia) one time or another, getting Lithium/Sodium Oxides and freeing Hydrogen from water. It wont be economically feasible though.

    This is the chemical reaction

    2Al(s) + 6NaOH(aq) → 3H2(g) + 2Na3AlO3(aq)

    You get Hygrogen gas, but the "Hydroxene" has to be replenished, and somehow, you have to separate 2Na3AlO3 which is in liquid form. Its also doubtfull if you actually get enough H2 to be worthwhile.

    It is however, by best guesses, a water injection system. I have used it on my turbo to lower combustion temperature so I can either run higher boost or more timing advance. If this "hydroxene" has to be replenished, it is no different than running Nitrious Oxide injection for more power.

    Whatever it is, it needs to be proven and officially tested by an independent judicator.

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  • w_lighter (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 3:57 am

    well… if it is like nitros and altho it may not be as powerful. i woudnt mind having a LAW APPROVE and FREE FLOWING "nitros" at my disposal.

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  • szw (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 4:05 am

    carburator ?

    which age r we in ?

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  • oranglulu (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 4:18 am

    this technology was discover decades ago in america,but CIA conceals the whole finding as top confidential only to review once all the fossil fuel on earth has useup,they afraid it mike cause a world economy disaster at present time due to too many buisness are link to oil industry,their new finding are more advance,in fact 100% water power engine as compair to LMG 50%,the wars going on todays are mainly due to fossil fuel,the future worldwar 3 will be fought to control another natural resources,WATER,or H2O,both for human consumption and energy producing.

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  • oranglulu (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 4:21 am

    carb or inj.

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  • tiredguy (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 4:33 am

    Cheap and safe production of hydrogen fuel

    Universiti Sains Malaysia researchers have invented a unique and novel system that can produce hydrogen inside a car using waste aluminium metal and sodium hydroxide.

    Title of project: An Economical Route to the Production of Hydrogen Energy from Waste Materials: An Alternative Fuel for Vehicles

    Researchers:

    Dr Syamsul Rizal Abd Shukor

    Assoc. Prof. Abdul Latiff Ahmad

    Dr. Lee Keat Teong

    Kelly Yong Tau Len

    Oh Pei Ching

    The soaring prices of crude petroleum in the international market has instigated the need for an alternative fuel to power our vehicles. Hydrogen has long been cited as one of the potential fuel to replace petroleum due to its environmental friendly nature as the combustion of hydrogen produces only water and energy without any pollutants. However, the expensive cost of hydrogen production and the safety of hydrogen storage in vehicle have deterred this route from being conceptualized.

    Universiti Sains Malaysia researchers have invented a unique and novel system that can produce hydrogen inside a car using waste aluminium metal and sodium hydroxide. The hydrogen can be directly used as a source of fuel for combustion in the engine to power the vehicle. By controlling the amount of reactant used, they can control the quantity of hydrogen produced and thus eliminating the safety problem associated with hydrogen storage. Thus, in this invention, a novel and economical route for in-situ production and utlization of hydrogen in a car has been invented.

    Dr Syamsul Rizal Abd Shukor

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  • topgunthang (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 5:08 am

    i think its a catch somewhere. to debut a technology with a chinese company. if the tech was so good, should have patented it in US or germany or something already and licenced to reputable companies. for the thing to debut with china products=no patent already, so i beleive its just mumbo jumbo rip off of other company technology.

    pretty soon will be replaced by benz or toyota tech.

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  • topgunthang (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 5:16 am

    why not debut it with proton??

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  • oranglulu (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 5:31 am

    not new technology,just modofication base on old finding,can't log in to lmauto.com to find details,reason under construction.

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 6:20 am

    "Universiti Sains Malaysia researchers have invented a unique and novel system that can produce hydrogen inside a car using waste aluminium metal and sodium hydroxide."

    Sounds like we need to refill this so-called magic canister. There goes your cost saving on fuel.

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  • 4g91 (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 6:29 am

    found a website on a similar technology :

    http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/

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  • mits27 (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 6:55 am

    Looks like this car doesn't have fuel cell build in, which required hydrogen fuel from hydrogen fuel station. So, I think this car may not the 100% hydrogen car that based on fuel cell technology? I know Honda already has fuel cell car, and the car going in production in next 3 to 4 years.

    http://corporate.honda.com/environment/fuel_cells…

    http://world.honda.com/news/2006/4060108FCX/

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  • syauqi (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 7:17 am

    absolutely no need to worry bout petronas…

    number one, approximately 33 percent of their revenues comes from oversea operations, and this is expected to increase in the near future

    number two, they dont market the high-quality-m'sian oil domestically (for cars etc) they refine the crude oil, and its end products are sold to some loji and kilang in japan, taiwan, the middle east, u name it

    number three, currently we are using some cheap low quality fuel, probably imported from middle east countries (correct me if im wrong) for our car consumption everyday…petronas and d gov would be more than happy to reduce the subsidy if this LMG really works

    number four, it's very likely for this hydroxene tech to rosak easily in the near future, then nobody in ah beng's bengkel knows how to fix it, finally people in throngs revert back to their proton or perodua cars in no time…it's a vicious cycle really

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  • zie (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 7:45 am

    WTF,

    Is this is all Malaysians can hope for?

    Made in China cars.

    F**k that NAP

    Stupid policy made by stupid policy makers

    Damn.

    Soon, we'll be driving Indian-made cars

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  • syauqi (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 7:55 am

    and by the way, since we are dealing with a chinese car manufacturing company here, rest assured that they will show no mercy whatsoever pirating this hydroxene technology (then again, if it really works) put it into their yet another 'pirated' cars and claim to be the first to do so in the world…

    geely 'c-class' fitted with 'hydoxian' technology anyone?

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  • drifting4eva (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 7:58 am

    so what if we drive made in china cars. rite now, all our clothes, electronics, toys, etc. are made in china. talk about world hegemony :P

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 8:06 am

    Made in China and India car simply not up to international standard by far.

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  • oranglulu (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 8:20 am

    if is usm and our local boys finding,still dun get the logic of using a china dali to launch our save the world discovery and not joint hand with our national auto giant,PROTON ,as it will be a true malaysian products.got the feeling that even proton had no comfidence with this.time will tell whether this is a breakthough products or selfclaim non practical laughing staff of the world automotive industries.

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 8:26 am

    im more incline to believe that the latter might be true. :)

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  • syauqi (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 8:28 am

    cant imagine what r the lads in top gear going to say bout this 'major breakthrough'…maybe they'll fill the hydroxene tank with sabun basuh and compare it with a fridge or washing machine…those cup of tea lovers

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  • KingKong (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 9:13 am

    it's a good move by LMG to introduce this tech in their very 1st vehicle line-up. for me, we could ask how many question we want on this tech BUT we should start and improve it in future.

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  • w_lighter (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 11:12 am

    "if is usm and our local boys finding,still dun get the logic of using a china dali to launch our save the world discovery and not joint hand with our national auto giant,PROTON ,as it will be a true malaysian products.got the feeling that even proton had no comfidence with this.time will tell whether this is a breakthough products or selfclaim non practical laughing staff of the world automotive industries."

    Well.. iirc today on the news they sign a few agreement to distribute the car overseas already. Did you ever thought that perhaps not that proton has no confidence in the technology but the company instead wanted to be a national car manufacturer and not just and engine manufacturer ( proton rejected petronas, what makes you think they'll change their mind with this? ). The collobration with Dadi is probably a short cut to get a chasis for the engine since they are a new company and havent had the expertise to build a car of their own. something like naza and produa now and like what proton used to be…

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  • oranglulu (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 4:05 pm

    I feel the better scenerio should be,malaysian make hydroxene technology,has been install into the ckd china dadi tourer and trekker which will lauch by our prime minister todays,the china dadi tourer and trekker will be assamble in johor both for export and local market,instead of claiming another malaysian cars lah,you tak malu I malu oh! and please dun give doremi clarrson another insulting tropics about our auto industries.

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  • Gallardo1988 (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 4:37 pm

    I'll remain sceptical bout this for the moment.. If some company were to REALLY come out with the technology to break water down into h and o soo easily, they'd be known worldwide.. BUT if they really succeeded in doing so, large auto companies out there are gonna have to start worrying

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  • Randy (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 4:52 pm

    This should be the hit and should be on the front page of all the news of the world. But then, I fear for the worse. I better not say it.

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  • Akazamabamaboo (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 5:03 pm

    Aren't we smart enough to make our own choices? If you don't like it, don't buy it. It's THAT simple…hehehe… :P And as I said, I'd rather get a second-generation Pajero for that kind of money… :D

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  • transparent (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 6:08 pm

    To our understanding electrolysis does require a large energy input since it is breaking the strong force atomic structure of H20. Most systems cannot actually electrolize tap water as there is far too much junk in it. First it must be de-ionized, a separate and somewhat complex process that produces its own remnants of salts and minerals. This HydroXine box must have some far ahead technology ot overcome the thermodynamics which state that it would take more energy to electrolyze than would be saved in the reduced gas/petro mileage.

    Then again… it could be done by Elves.

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 6:11 pm

    I still say its hard to believe.

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  • rexis (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 6:35 pm

    Or maybe they no confident with proton, LOL.

    Thanks 4G63T DSM for the chemical equation.

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  • shagalot (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 7:38 pm

    Honda has this Fuel Cell technology, is that technology running on 100% hydrogen to power the car, without any petrol/diesel?

    This is just a stepping stone to Hydrogen car… but good enough for Malaysian achievement… if this news came out a few months earlier, i would have waited for this car instead of buying a City..

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 7:47 pm

    shagalot,

    How could you possibly know its going to work and will be good enough for malaysian?…..Wonder how reliable the system is.

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  • 4G63T DSM (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 10:24 pm

    Its quite hilarious that people are already jumping to conclusions (especially in the next 2 threads).

    if you just look at the chemical equation i posted above, you will need A LOT of Al and NaOH to generate H2. Also bear in mind that H2 has less energy per mol than petrol so you need fairly large quantity of it to burn. Burnign H2 is not efficient at all (Internal combustion motors has only 25% efficiency). If you need to use H2 to power the car, it has to be a fuel cell.

    I would seriously doubt that LMG will be soooo gung ho on saying it saves 50% on fuel consumption in the mitigation happy place such as North America.

    Seriously, are Malaysian's that gullible? I mean, just look at the type of responses. We shoudl just step back, and try to see the larger picture and dont buy into the hype.

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  • zeese (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 10:26 pm

    You keep telling it needs a lot of energy to break the molecule,

    as if this prof this form 4 chemistry lab experiment and applied

    in the car. You forget 1 element that never been taught in school.

    The reactance to improve/speed up the process..

    Talking about IP, how do you know the don't pattern their design?

    Have you check with the officers from all the world or ask the

    designer themselve?

    This is a new car. It may succeed, or may fail in the market. The risk

    is too high for proton to jump directly into this kind of car. At least,

    they need to see what's the possible problem with this car and how's

    the feedback from customers.

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  • Matthew Seleigh (Member) on Aug 16, 2006 at 10:31 pm

    At the risk of sounding a bit cynical, what a great way to draw attention to a vehicle that wouldn't make a blip on most people's radar. There's been massive promotional value to this. In fact, I'll stick my neck out and say that is the only value it is likely to provide.

    But as a practical method of reducing fuel consumption by 50 percent? Not unless we see a parlimentary bill to change the laws of physics, if then.

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 17, 2006 at 12:19 am

    Why dont they go for diesel instead?

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  • kt71 (Member) on Aug 17, 2006 at 1:56 am

    First of all, the USM project is a typical local universiti project = waste of money and resources trying to get attention from ignorance people. We have seen this too much already. Form 5 science projects with goverment grant. That's one of the reason why our country got nothing to do with technology.

    Aluminium is not cheap, so those jokers called it 'waste' Aluminium to make it sounds economical viable. Even waste Aluminium not cheap. Do you know that in the scrap yard, real waste Aluminium comes with paint, oil, resins and maybe other metals?

    To add Aluminium, chemicals and energy into the mixture to get Hidrogen to power up engine is like going big round to avoid toll booth on the road, but end up spending more on petrol due to longer journey and traffic jams.

    And secondly, when a salesman is reluctant to tell you the details and the catch, please avoid the product. Save your time asking also. Something fishy here.

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  • malayman (Member) on Aug 17, 2006 at 2:22 am

    ok so let me fet this straight….the hydrogen is mixed with the fuel and combusted…just like how nos is mixed with fuel to get more power?

    haha…still dont get it….a bit slow this past few days dunno why…not enough water maybe!

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  • H-Plus (Member) on Aug 17, 2006 at 2:58 am

    Its wonderful to read such diverse comments left in the wake of this Dadi Hydroxene launch. Hydrogen as a supplementary fuel has been around and growing since Dr. Yule Brown publish his results some 20 years ago. Its known as 'Brown Gas' – after Dr. Brown who was very committed to start the ball rolling against fossil fuel polution. It has been refined by many people around the world (me included) & H2O to H & O conversion isn't a secret art, – it's eficiency is. I get about 50 ~80% fuel savings on my own system and the unit is small enough to fit into most engine bays.

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  • 4284A (Member) on Aug 17, 2006 at 4:04 am

    http://hft-h2o.com/

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  • mr tong sam pah (Member) on Aug 17, 2006 at 9:25 am

    its amazing HOW ARROGANT the "scientist" who "invented" this technology today…already he claimed that there are only 17 people in the whole world WHO KNEW ABOUT THIS TECHNOLOGY, and even this group of 17 only knew about 70% of the technology!!!! than he went on to claim that he "wont easily let this technology fell into foreign hands!!! he also received foreign offers of 26 million but arrogantly said that he wont sell it to "foreigners"

    but u know what? in the same STAR article, 40% of his research fundings WERE GRANTED BY THE USA and BRITAIN!!!

    bloody hipocrite

    and thr whole thing really smells fishy…if the technology IS SO GREAT, THE WHOLE WORLD would be knocking on our door

    this is just like the proton chancellor, protin claimed that many foreign parties are "interested" and "praise" the chancellor, and oders are ready to be taken…

    what "happenned" to the bold claim?

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  • oranglulu (Member) on Aug 17, 2006 at 3:09 pm

    they too on news paper claims that oredi got foreign booking,like i say before,this is not a new discovery,just his personal recipe of old theory,he mike just like me,discover the story in conspiracy theory,except that he is a sain tiss and i just an oldman.

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  • tanasi (Member) on Aug 17, 2006 at 8:55 pm

    This technology simply supplements the conventional fuel used to power the internal combustion engine. So it is not a 100% hydrogen vehicle like the H2R from BMW, nor it is a fuel-cell based vehicle which doesn't involve IC engine at all.

    An Israeli company did research on using on-board electrolyzer, akin to hydroxene with using aluminum coil combined with heated water to facilitate the separation of hydrogen and oxigen molecules. However, the stumbling block to this is the cost to manufacture the aluminum coil as well as issues regarding the metal oxide which is a byproduct of the process.

    It is interesting to know how hydroxene tackles these issues, which many (certainly more than 17) people have been dedicating their lives to solve. From technological standpoint, I don't think it hurts to provide proof in terms of level of thermal efficiencies, performance, substance used, etc. Furthermore, I think by disclosing some of the technologies, a marketing effect will be created that will further help sales figures…

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  • sarawakguy (Member) on Aug 18, 2006 at 5:08 am

    I say,Gentlemen…

    may I suggest that somebody test the HYDROXENES intensively and then "spare" us the details…PAUL…!! Can arrange some of your contacts to do that kaaa?

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 18, 2006 at 6:15 am

    Good idea sarawakguy.

    Paul BOLEH!!!

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  • topgunthang (Member) on Aug 18, 2006 at 1:43 pm

    kt71,

    First of all, the USM project is a typical local universiti project = waste of money and resources trying to get attention from ignorance people. We have seen this too much already. Form 5 science projects with goverment grant. That’s one of the reason why our country got nothing to do with technology.

    And secondly, when a salesman is reluctant to tell you the details and the catch, please avoid the product. Save your time asking also. Something fishy here.

    ——————————-

    i beleive it to be too. the msians who are actually good enough to do research are mostly based overseas. it is fishy…and it sure damn is ugly.

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  • osh_kosh (Member) on Aug 18, 2006 at 8:50 pm

    Mr topgunthang,

    "First of all, the USM project is a typical local universiti project = waste of money and resources trying to get attention from ignorance people. We have seen this too much already. Form 5 science projects with goverment grant. That’s one of the reason why our country got nothing to do with technology."

    hmm… that's a very interesting statement… can you prove that? i'll like to know more…

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  • osh_kosh (Member) on Aug 18, 2006 at 9:04 pm

    Mr topgunthang,

    Do you think solar car reseach at our local a waste of our government money? or do you have any idea about wind tunnel in our local universiti existance & that F1 sauber petronas team have use it a couple of time? u mean this also a waste or government money and its for nothing? please give me advise if you know more information.. sorry because my knowledge is limited.. "saya budak mahu belajar, kalau salah tolong tunjukkan".. its nothing personal..

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 18, 2006 at 9:23 pm

    osh_kosh, good question mate.

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  • osh_kosh (Member) on Aug 18, 2006 at 9:24 pm

    oh sorry… that statement came from kt71 is it?? whatever.. :)

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  • osh_kosh (Member) on Aug 18, 2006 at 9:28 pm

    yo my boy.. i just can't agreed with people who seem to 'round up' all the things together and make their judgement without looking at the whole pictures.. nothing personal man

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  • MyBoy (Member) on Aug 18, 2006 at 10:18 pm

    osh_kosh,

    Shut the F**k up and stay on topic. :D

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  • osh_kosh (Member) on Aug 18, 2006 at 10:42 pm

    haha don't be mad man…

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  • osh_kosh (Member) on Aug 19, 2006 at 12:28 am

    paul…

    any news or new information about this hydroxene stuff?

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  • topgunthang (Member) on Aug 19, 2006 at 1:35 am

    osh_kosh,

    its not my statement but as a long time formula 1 team and race car designer, im sure they (sauber/ and petronas-money sponsor) have thier own state of the art wind tunnel or thier favourite wind tunnel to use. and its problably not gonna be the one in usm.

    after writing countless essays in schools for so many years talking big about the big government projects….just about all have been proven a failure. i should have got 0% for all those essays. we should have focused our attention to more important issues during those times….like learning Excel skills and analysis rather than writing and talking and praising mumbo jumbo about IT, MSC and all sorts of other stuff.

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  • philippecr (Member) on Aug 20, 2006 at 10:18 am

    er…. giv u some corrections. Petronas is not on the name anymore. now is BMW Sauber. ^^

    if the statement "effective" reduction in fuel consumption of up to 50% prove to be true. It's revolutionary. and MALAYSIA BOLEH! Proud to live in the Bolehland. Apa pun boleh! XD

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  • topgunthang (Member) on Aug 21, 2006 at 6:18 am

    philippecr,

    sorry. i knew the name had changed and petronas got dumped. but just wanted to make an example coz someone said sauber used the tunnel or something.

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  • osh_kosh (Member) on Aug 22, 2006 at 1:18 am

    mr topgunthang,

    of coz the sauber team have their own wind tunnel… but its just an example of this so called 'waste of the government money' wind tunnel still good enough for them to use.. and its not in usm… so maybe in your point of view all government project is a waste of money but that's your right.. i can say no more.. but for me if 6 out of 10 governtment projects is a failure i do not dare to say ALL governtment project is a waste of money.. that's just too childish.. real life is not a fairy tales that always have a happy ending… :)

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  • osh_kosh (Member) on Aug 22, 2006 at 3:05 am

    hmm.. it's easy to critics others people works.. but to be fair, first…give them time to prove they're right or wrong… of coz some of them will make mistake coz they're not GOD.. just think if someone judge you without give u a chance to prove you r right or wrong.. some people tend to do that to others.. it's just immature… meanwhile when ask about their contribution to others they just smile and smile and smile… why not doing something about it rather than just complain & complain & complain.. bila nak maju? just to clear things up.. i'm not related to LMG or usm or governtment officers.. nothing personal..just my opinion :)

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  • yeaori (Member) on Aug 22, 2006 at 6:20 am

    As a student, even though i may not be experienced in cars, I do realise that hydrogen is very volatile. Hydrogen fuel cells operate differently, using electronics, but actually using hydrogen gas…. one rupture in the fuel line, a single spark and the whole thing will go up, especially since there's oxygen available.

    It's supposed to be an 'additional power source'. If it was really effective, they could just run a car on it alone.

    When fuel combusts, it produces water vapour. Why not use that as your water source? Everytime it combusts, the water will be replenished.

    Oh yes, and OshKosh… Solar Power research is starting to become outdated. If global warming will truly go into full swing, climate change will occur.. and since there is haze now, sunlight comes rarely.

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  • topgunthang (Member) on Aug 22, 2006 at 9:40 am

    of course when u are being absolute in making a comment your're gonna be wrong. instead of saying 9 out of 10 i just make it about all. coz almost all the g'man project that i track when they implement it fail with time especially the big ones. they all start with a 'wow' factor, after thath they dont follow through with the promises. and to shut citizens from complaining they just start another mega project. of course there are definitely some that do succeed. im not about to sit around and monitor all the governments projects. nobody is going to. one thing im quite sure about is all government projects are only instruments aimed to benefit the middle man who has connections who has just about zero contributions/effort. as for who that guy is most of us can guess pretty well.

    btw….this comment ''that’s just too childish.. real life is not a fairy tales that always have a happy ending…'' is more suited for proton. hehe. and that hydroxene technology. thats just my guess. there's numerous reports on the news from US and germany regarding similar products and the big manufacturers are looking to these companies to buy it over for the tech. and further improve it before releasing it. this seems more like a concept that everybody knows about rather than a pioneering technology…they just dont feel the need to shout about it when they know alot of people already know about it. just makes you look and sound silly. but being countries like china where information to public is controlled or ignorance is bountiful, they can say what they want and look like heroes.

    hydroxene is problably just a side branch of a parent structure that anybody can modify to any structure with similar properties. or be it some method to store hydrogen and utilize the heat produced. but the basic concept seems the same. to see who can implement it better we'll have to wait. the results should be out sooner than later. lets hope that USM scientist knows what he's doing.

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  • burp (Member) on Aug 22, 2006 at 10:57 pm

    why so much noisy lorrr? just wait and see laaa.. instead, the price is worthy with the new technology and 52% of the vehicle parts are made by local. Can see the different between original car in dadi website and the launched car in Malaysia

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  • burp (Member) on Aug 22, 2006 at 11:32 pm

    furthermore.. look at the cosmetic change, not bad loh

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  • osh_kosh (Member) on Aug 23, 2006 at 12:38 am

    yeaori,

    "Oh yes, and OshKosh… Solar Power research is starting to become outdated. If global warming will truly go into full swing, climate change will occur.. and since there is haze now, sunlight comes rarely."

    please be informed that my statement about this solar car research is an example of what 'waste of the g'ment money" project that in know (plz forgive me with my limited knowledge).. it was then way back when i was in univ..come to think about it, i don't really know what happen now.. maybe u can ask mr topgunthang coz he seem to know almost all of the project by g'ment which he proudly claim a failure.. by the way i'm interested to know more about this–> "coz almost all the g’man project that i track when they implement it fail with time especially the big ones."

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  • topgunthang (Member) on Aug 23, 2006 at 7:17 am

    just refer to all the essays you wrote in primary and secondary school. 5-10 years ago. see what the gman was preaching then and what actually happen to these projects.

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  • osh_kosh (Member) on Aug 23, 2006 at 5:34 pm

    mr topgunthang,

    1)"just refer to all the essays you wrote in primary and secondary school."

    –> what did u mean?

    2)"after writing countless essays in schools for so many years talking big about the big government projects….just about all have been proven a failure. i should have got 0% for all those essays." –>can i have a look on a few of it? i'm interested..for my references.. maybe its will change my point of view… :) if u kind enough plz mail it to me–> [email protected]

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  • philipngcc (Member) on Aug 26, 2006 at 10:53 pm

    Hydrogexe definitely a good technology. I can see it is only a temporary solution. As sooner or later earth petroluem oil will be depleted.

    A solution to run a vehicle purely on hydrogen which is available abundance from water is needed or any other alternative fuel.

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  • H-Plus (Member) on Aug 31, 2006 at 7:29 pm

    Hydrogen as an environmentally alternative to fossil fuel is becoming a reality sooner than expected. Our luck with mother nature is running thin with the continous reliance on hydrocarbon fuel (about 86% world's energy at the moment) is pushing towards the point of no return. Thankfully, through internet communication, awareness is becoming difficult to "suppress". There are many ways to separate H2O and one of the most ideal way is the Sulfur-Iodine water splitting cycle (Aspen Technology – presented in Japan on the 68th annual meeting of the Society of Chemical Engineers on the 23rd March 2004). More research are being done on this method as it has been identified as the most ideal way. Currently avaliable only in laboratory process model. The common electrolysis method has been greatly refined over the years due to a great deal of home users. My own experiments have led to an arrangement that reacts very quickly and produces more than enough hydrogen/oxygen to run cars, – with a minimal amount of electricity, about 15~20amps/12v. Science text books merely gives us the principal and theories, but that doesn't mean it is the end, in fact, as I have found that every new improvements/discovery?, was merely the beginning to another stage.

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  • bowlingbola (Member) on Sep 12, 2006 at 10:28 am

    hmm. i going go get one.tourer next year and the hydroxene unit to my wira (it useless to sell but good to improvised) after analyze all the comments. but why left proton behind on this tech..may be it can boost proton market..I’m looking forward on elise proton using this kinda tech..ok. i’m going to check up this suv see your all at their showroom on 15 sept..

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  • johnandrews52 (Member) on Jun 18, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    Can we run our car with water and gas?
    Can anybody tell me is the HHO Gas is real working or is another scam?

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  • vchoo (Member) on Jul 22, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    This whole hydroxene thing is clearly dubious in nature.

    The local scientists claim the process of using waste aluminium and sodium hydroxide (acid) can “split water” to produce hydrogen.

    Look at the chemical reaction below and you’ll understand why the process DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT “split water” into hydrogen. Instead, the hydrogen comes from sodium hydroxide (NaOH), not water. Water, in this case acts only as a medium of interaction. There is NO WATER MOLECULES being split whatsoever. Look below and you’ll understand the basic science of how strong acids (in this case, sodium hydroxide) produce hydrogen when they come in contact with metals (like aluminium):

    2Al(s) + 6NaOH(aq) → 3H2(g) + 2Na3AlO3(aq)

    Aluminium + Sodium Hydroxide = Hydrogen gas + Metal Complexes.

    In order to replenish the hydrogen, more aluminium and sodium hydroxide need to be put into the system, NOT water. Tell me, which petrol station in this country sells aluminium and sodium hydroxide to their customers???

    The funny thing is that these are basic sciences that we all learn when we’re in the elementary school.
    Why is it that we, Malaysians are still being fooled by such claim???

    Also, to split water molecules into hydrogen requires energy. Where does the energy comes from?? The car battery?? If so, then the energy stored in the battery is used to split water into hydrogen which then produces energy when it is burnt. Why the long process? Might as well use your car battery directly to supply the car with electric energy through an electric hybrid motor instead. Either way, you’ll get a very short battery lifespan doing this. Either way, there’s no free energy in this process.

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  • maibatsu_thunder (Member) on Jul 22, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    We need a full test!

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  • ……

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • How many years we leave behind of high technology?haha..This is Russian technology,U.S.A,Japan then China…

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  • we are the last to know this type of technology..malaysia boleh????

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  • Shameless to be a PETRONAS country..if lesser to use petrol after replace by Hydroxene technology,Malaysia still boleh??

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  • hai. i have an LMG Trekker with the hydroxene . but i dont know what to fill in the hydroxene tank? kena letak air ke? anybody can help?

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