At first, the figure was said to be about US$47 million, but the latest is a whopping US$140 million! It’s heartbreaking I know but yes, we’re talking about Volkswagen’s investment in Indonesia to build an assembly plant there that will first only have CKD assembly and paint shops, but will later become a full fledged manufacturing plant complete with stamping and the whole works, if all goes well!
Indonesia’s Investment Coordinating Board head Muhammad Lutfi has revealed that US$140 million will be invested over the next 2 years on the 50,000 Touran a year factory, and the Indonesian government will support them with tax incentives.
Lutfi added that MPV manufacturing in Indonesia is on average 30% cheaper than any other ASEAN countries because of government incentives. Toyota and Honda also makes their MPVs there (remember the Toyota IMV project?), with the latest being the Honda Freed, which is being assembled at Honda’s plant in Karawang.
More and more automotive companies may be looking at Indonesia soon. Four Chinese brands have entered Indonesia in the last 2 years – Chery, Foton, Great Wall and Geely. Their economy is forecasted to grow 4% this year, and they are said to be the 3rd fastest growing economy in Asia after China and India. It’s also the world’s fourth-largest country by population.
Indonesian citizen earnings are slowly rising to point where a majority can abandon their motorcycles for cars, and proof of that is in the increasing gridlock problem in Jakarta. The buses and taxis share the same jam and there is no MRT. The first will only begin construction in 2011 and operational by 2016.
You can also look at P.T. Astra International’s stock prices and earnings – they are a large automobile conglomerate in Indonesia and have partnerships with Toyota, Daihatsu, BMW, Peugeot, Nissan Diesel, Isuzu, and Honda.
Previously a Volkswagen spokesperson said their Indonesian vehicle assembly plant is a first step towards Volkswagen’s long term ASEAN market development. Volkswagen can also use their Indonesian plant to supply CKD kits or complete vehicles to Japan, thanks to the Japan-Indonesia Economic Partnership Agreement.
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RM500mil gone! Malaysia boleh! What the G should say?
chris knock bolehland gov's head 'dong dong dong' wake up you swine virus from nap-ping!
good.. now indon's had many job vacant.
please all indons… GO back to you mother land.. works there!
stop flooding malaysia PATI..
pleaseeeeee..
we got p1 n p2 ma…scare wat… :)
if indo ppl go back whos gonna do the job here
Maybe we'll have to go work there soon. It's already happening.
Last time ppl rush to Singapore to work… I think by another next 5-10 years we are going to Thailand & Indonesia to earn money… Later we all are the foreign workers!!! Wah…
We just being the most awesome neighbor in ASEAN countries. Giving all the fat meat to others with the pride of saying we can survive.
@Paultan
I dont think we will work over there. We might lose on manufacturing/assembly industries as example stated above. But that type of industry require cheap labour to reduce cost. Malaysia in other hand is concentrating on its Service industry where it require knowledge worker and Professional Skills. Proof of it, there is a lot of US based company is outsourcing its IT service here to reduce cost.
In near future when the company does not have enough resources to pay the cost for indonesian worker, they will outsource again their plant to other cheap country, Africa perhaps?
Just my 2 cents.
good on you Indon Govt! you get what you deserve. As for our G, u guys can go and stick your heads back into your collective asses.
VW started the talk with Malaysian first. We can say we are VW first choice.
The talk didn't work out. We can say the deal would make us sacrifice more than what we would gain.
Now 140M will be invested in Indonesia, Can we say that we have something which is much better than 140M which we might lose if we sign deal with VW?
there goes our opportunity. if previous p1 n vw deal is on. today vw might b come to msia. can sumbody help us? we msian r losing competitive power
maybe next time our female workforce will go to indon to work as maids?
maybe we work there as maid in indon abt 10 yrs later…
and yea… thats about time to coincide with our Vision 2020…
lets see if our FANTASTIC government will slap their own face when they see the amount of FDI pumped in by just 1 automaker.
140 million, goddamn it can change alot of lives.
I'm already working in Japan and earning RM30k a month.. So everybody let's work abroad…
original quote by liitlefire..
"Last time ppl rush to Singapore to work… I think by another next 5-10 years we are going to Thailand & Indonesia to earn money… Later we all are the foreign workers!!! Wah…"
—
I just can't tahan my gelak already la littlefire.. so funny ahhh
Malaysia have too much monopoly and so many compromise on the car quality that made our Malaysia industry really backward can't keep up with the European especially the Germans and also the Japanese..
I wonder, maybe some day we all migrate to Indon?? but for now Indon is #1 the highest corruption in whole Asia, Malaysia is on #7 highest corruption in whole Asia.. we are only a bit better than our neighbour indonesia, but our south neighbour Singapore their Corruption Pencentage Index (CPI) almost zero that's a biggest reason why Singapore can progress fast with no natural resource ans so much disadvantage if they not have proper strategy, only have ports, human power and brains.
Hope the price of VW cars will reduce then
Indonesia already suffered gridlocks when I went there in 1995. Not sure how bad it is now anyway.
Highlight this news. Anyone from mainstream media should highlight this as well. The next sentence would be a proton sentence or a protectionist sentence. If possible make it front page of paper.
thankzzz to G…BN ruLes…
btw…BN new meaning "Bini NajIB"….
maybe after this we will see so many indon drive Volkswagen and also PORSCHE!!! wohoooo… PROTON and PERODUA need to think the next best strategy with MITSUBISHI, LOTUS, TOYOTA and DAIHATSU how to beat this german giant!
German engineering is very well known for its excellence and quality.. they can offer you 10 years warranty including all engine part while PROTON and PERDOUA… lu pikir la sendiri..
Our G still stuck with NAP. I wonder wat is MITI is doing?
Malaysia boleh…..boleh with giving a good business opportunity to other neighbour country as the offer priority is on our side. Sooner or later Malaysian will become foreign worker for the Indo just like Hongkie back to China.
Salamander said,
July 3, 2009 @ 8:45 pm
I dont think we will work over there. We might lose on manufacturing/assembly industries as example stated above. But that type of industry require cheap labour to reduce cost. Malaysia in other hand is concentrating on its Service industry where it require knowledge worker and Professional Skills. Proof of it, there is a lot of US based company is outsourcing its IT service here to reduce cost.
In near future when the company does not have enough resources to pay the cost for indonesian worker, they will outsource again their plant to other cheap country, Africa perhaps?
Just my 2 cents.
————————————————————
It may be sounds true for now….but ain't its the same here, our workforce here has been delivering work all the time, but how many freshie start off wit better and better starting pay? it is becoz it has been suppressed…
same goes to Indonesia…they might do so too…if not of coz it moves…
so u think Malaysia service is good huh…if without the wage suppress, probably most gone to India now…
u shd ask gov, simplify process, stop all discriminate policy, yet, please make sure the right of ur citizen is keep intact
not like the cyanide case
thanks to our goverment protection for this stupid proton rubbish, now we lost FDI and job opportunity, that is what we really need now in this economy crisis ,
i think many more loses of FDI to neighbour country will happen in the future.
we are acting too late and too slow.
why protection on this proton rubbish, mayb this is the pet project of our TDM and national pride because of this 25millions people get the whip.
Is is good to have national car but with a bunch of corrupted, short vision leadership and rubbish politicians running on this business, this is the expected outcome.
Looking arround many of the TDM project currently are burden to rakyat but nice cover up had been done so this restless TDM can still talk rubbish on others.
now nothing we can do but to change gov and the whole dilivery system.
pray to god rakyat will not suffer anymore.
Just another topic and opportunity to bash proton.. hmmm
kenapalah malaysian still having this attitude … patutlah lambat maju…
Their leaders are working hard to finding the new opportunity to growth the economy, while our leader regardless the party are busy with politics, elections and etc, that provide zero contribution to the country. In fact they scared they foreign investor away. What a waste…
As long as we have our over promising gov, we will always lose out to our asean countries like thailand and now indonesia when it comes to the automotive sector!
Guys…dont worry our G will survive…they will ask us buy barang buatan M'sia and jimat cermat…dont waste ur money to unimportant things and they will ask us to work harder for the country…at the same time our G busy with fighting with oppositon in Parlimen and pilihanraya kecil…
Why always blame government. Shove your politicking somewhere else. That is so blatantly pathetic, not to mention shallow.
Fact is; we do not need labour intensive jobs. We needed it in the 90's. Not now. Our workforce's value has gone up. We cannot move if the majority of us think that we should do the same thing forever and ever. We cannot fathom why we need to move up the value chain to gain more income for ourselves. We needs jobs in the Green Industry, producing more higher value products.
Our own Auto industry is to blame. If the auto industry keeps doing CKDs and assembly of other people's Intellectual Property Rights, where can we add value? Instead of developing our own products or making it better, we are just a sweatshop for cars. And the ONLY one that does it gets beaten up for trying. Now that is lame.
rm1= 1 rupiah 2020
bobdbilder said,
July 4, 2009 @ 1:37 pm
Why always blame government. Shove your politicking somewhere else. That is so blatantly pathetic, not to mention shallow.
Fact is; we do not need labour intensive jobs. We needed it in the 90’s. Not now. Our workforce’s value has gone up. We cannot move if the majority of us think that we should do the same thing forever and ever. We cannot fathom why we need to move up the value chain to gain more income for ourselves. We needs jobs in the Green Industry, producing more higher value products.
Our own Auto industry is to blame. If the auto industry keeps doing CKDs and assembly of other people’s Intellectual Property Rights, where can we add value? Instead of developing our own products or making it better, we are just a sweatshop for cars. And the ONLY one that does it gets beaten up for trying. Now that is lame.
—————————————————————-
I think bobdbilder is right on this. it is no use if we keep assembling other people's products. the government needs to work towards having our own products that can be assembled elsewhere. because in the case of VW in indonesia, they are only there because it is cheap, meaning that they can take more profit back to germany. no doubt this is good in the short term, but not much good in the long term.
Alot of people including myself agree with bobdbilder, just that sometimes we feel it's not worth going through what we have to go through with the current level of Proton products before they get to the level of being competitive with foreign makes in terms of quality. They already have nice products with the Saga and Exora but sadly sometimes not put together well, and of course there is the achilles heel of the engine. But at the same time I know many personal friends who are very happy with their Proton, with only some gripes about how the service center is sometimes priced way more expensive than third party centers, and at times lembab. So in terms of quality it's pretty much a Russian Roulette kind of bet. Plonk your money down and you might get a great car or you might get a nightmare. Why can't it be a great car more often or better still, all the time? That is the direction Proton has to go.
In my humble opinion, the objective is right for establishing P1. The problem is, Malaysia always mix politics with business (and religion as well). Everything depends on the Govt of the day, so policies will change, new cronies, APs etc.
A GLC CEO knows he mght get kick out someday, not by failure to do his job but for stepping on someone's toes. That's why new cronies give birth to P2 & Naza (just rebadge then sell as national cars) to complicate matters further.
So how to have focus to advance and move forward?
yeah..couldn't agree more with bobdbilder… it's plain business for vw .. they give people there 140 mil then they got back many times more hundreds of million… whereas there's no technology transfer or whatsoever.. no benefits..
me also want to agree with bobdbilder, paul, fliedlice, Blackdog & fade… hehehe..
kalau ramai malaysian fikiran & attitude (which I believe are the majority) macam ni, barulah malaysia boleh maju dgn cepat…
I think it is time to bring in the Mitsubishi Heavy Industry in Malaysia, coorporation with PROTON.. PROTON need to various its business not just making cars.. bring in the best of Japanese ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE in Malaysia… its time to move forward, cooprporate with the Japanese Mitsubishi Heavy Industry to build tank, build space rocket, build bullet train(shinkansen), build the best and very advance chemical centre..
every company in this world want to make profit.. you tell me who don't want?
you must be wise la.. you want something, you must offer something..
"People cannot gain anything without sacrificing something. You must present something of equal value to gain something. That is the principle of equivalent trade in alchemy. We believed that was the truth of the world when we were young." – Full Metal Alchemist ??????
that's very simple concept.. you want technology transfer then you must offer something that have equal value to it.. my suggestion ask the Japanese and also the Germans to help our education system (especially in university level).. our university world ranking level drop down very bad recently, the quality of our gradutes decrease like hell, I don't know what went wrong.. it supposely, we have a big advantage because Malaysia is like the new USA which have so many race from all over Asia meaning we have all the various thinking in various type of most of important Asians race (which is one of critical aspecst of building expert system of ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, the variousness of thinking).. WHAT WENT WRONG?? and this is really affecting our automotive industry… now we have Germans challenger the VW in Indon, how Malaysia automotive industry want to cope with them, everybody know Germans automotive engineering is the best in this world even Japan really want to learn from Germans automotive success..
watch this video, there is special event in Japan called "SPECIAL IMPORT CAR SHOW" where the Japanese gather all the best automotive car makers and best car tuners from all over the world to show to the Japanese citizen (hoping the Japanese citizen will grab the opportunity to know the best of automotive engineering from outside especially the European.. the Germans)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRBgtr5ftmY
there is also alot of Japanese car makers giant compete in #1 biggest automotive racing event in Germany, the 24 hours Nurburgring race
..the Japanese field their best TOYOTA LF-A and also SUBARU WRX STi in Nurburgring 24 hours event in Germany, SUBARU even create special youtube channel to show how they progress in Germans racing event!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwMImKti9nI
http://www.youtube.com/user/SUBARUOnTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMtxFxZMWMI
PROTON and PERODUA shoud feel threaten, Volkswagen is not just a car company they are one of the BIGGEST AUTOMOTIVE GIANT IN THIS WORLD!!!
Volkswagen owned so many big car company in this world even the world fastest car Bugatti Veyron is under VW!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group
Volkswagen invented so many petrol and diesel engine, the Germans have so many patents.. Malaysia PROTON only have CAMPRO engine, Diesel technology don't have yet, even to make Turbo engine also very hard, that's why we have to afford an underpower MPV Exora, "half-baked" MPV.. which the possibilty to success in international market is quite low because of the engine development is only on initial stage.. I belive the chasis very good but the engine need to be improve!
If Malaysia want to improve, we should make a very big and advance R&D research centre in Malaysia, in initial stage can ask the LOTUS ENGINEERING to build the biggest R&D centre in Malaysia, also the Mitsubishi Motors and Mitsubishi Heavy Industry.. if can invite RICARDO ENGINEERING from Britain.. PETRONAS MALAYSIA can play a major player in initial stage to improve the quality and innovation from Malaysia automotive industry.. Malaysia should have a big advantage because Malaysia is located between the region of European civilization and Asian civilization, Malaysia is a new USA in the making, all the ship from all around the world need to pass Malacca straits to sell their products between Europe and Asia (European and Asian automotive company can save cost if they build their best R&D, and also HQ here).. its time to improve the facility in Sabah and Sarawak, there is very big land to develop (alot of undiscovered land area there) and can turn it into a world class facility of new era of automotive industry (Malaysia government need to be wise coorporate with the world, automotive company giants, and also citizen, and little by little transfer the technology for Malaysia benefit).
we really need the best of engineering especially from Japan and Germany.. but our automotive industry must also make money.. no money then no talk.
bobdbilder's statement is true. what we should focus is how to move this country forward. there are so many ways to go rather than hoping for outsiders to pour in some money. we are not beggars are we? together, let's stand on our own feet and move on. maybe someday, we can own VW. it's a bit of a dream but look at lotus or GM and you'll understand what i mean..
Annihilated, we still not win even a single Nobel price yet but the Japanese, Germans and USA people have win it alot.. especiallly in the field of Science and Technology.
you can't be too arrogant, don't want any partnership to achieve success?? Waahh, are we in the level of automotive car giant like VW yet?
are we too smart like the germans?
if so why to make Turbo engine also very hard?
if so then why we still cannot make diesel engine which the demand is really increasing?
our high education, university level, is it it in top 100 university in this world like the Germans, Japanese, USA or even same level as our neighbour Singapura?
Is it just a matter of hoping outsiders to pour some money? when the whole world affected by global economic crisis.. it is really a huge jobs opportunity and also one way to increase our economy..
our automotive industry really need technology transfer and at the same time need to make money.. together, let’s stand on our own feet and move on… yeah, if we want to stand on our feet, then our education system must be improve, alot more to do, our mindset not even reach first world status, you can see so many garbage everywhere, moral value also very low, but look at the Germans and Japanese, they are very hardworking people and also really know how to take care of their country cleanliness.. their work is a state of art, they improve it from time to time.. but as our history.. like PROTON, the first edition of PROTON SAGA very good quality, everyone very eager and do their best that time… but then the bad attitude really killed our automotive industry image, the quality went very bad after next edition of car products.. the CEO (previous one very arrogant and said that they are making money, they are the best.. WTF!).. even customers service very bad one.. now they insaf a little because of everybody have a very bad time the global economic crisis.. but if they back to the bad attitude then better close shop.. no future for Malaysia automotive industry if have very bad attitude..
USD140 million is about equal to RM500 million!
that's very huge investment by VW.. the PROTON Tanjung Malim plant cost is about RM1.8 billion.. but the size is 5 times bigger than Shah Alam PROTON manufacturing plant!
RM1800 million divide by 5 = RM360 million (maybe that's the cost of PROTON Shah Alam plant).. Volkswagen really want to bring all their latest cars production to Indon.. maybe after this they will add more money, who knows.
PROTON and PERODUA should feel threaten.. USD140 or RM500million, I think it is more bigger than PROTON Shah Alam manufacturing plant.. The Germans automotive giant, VW really serious want to conquer Asia region market especially in ASEAN!!!
what is the next PROTON and PERODUA strategy?? I just can't tahan my anger when I see the British people keep laughing and bashing Malaysian cars product, the worst one is Perodua.. Jeremy Clarksson embarass it on his #1 Top Gear show in British which have alot of followers in this world, at that time I also very angry with our automotive industry… why main2 in quality?.. Jeremy Clarksson smash the PERODUA cars in the public! and he always repeating the words Malaysia car product is a jungle product, no quality at all, imagine how many people influenced by his words in this world !!@@$%^*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDPdigAeEpE
Jeremy Clarksson really honest, I can't say he is wrong because he test all the cars around the world.. PROTON and PERODUA now have the germans VW , the great german engineering threat from Indon not just Jeremy Clarksson and Top Gear.. the challenge getting tougher! what is the future of our automotive industry? things are getting more difficult for PROTON, PERODUA and all Malaysia automotive industry now!!
Hi,
I manage to chit-chat with a well known economic analyst just years back. To my surprise, the next coming soon Economic Power-House in South east Asia region will not be held by Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippine nor Brunei anymore, but it will be held by Indonesia. In due time of course.
The reasons are it has that almost similar to China's cheap-workforce capability and a whopping 300 Million populations! (10 times more than Malaysia). Any economist knew that; the bigger populations you have in a country, the more economic pie you will have for business and trading activities. In other words, Indonesia has the capability to be a self-sufficient market and can compete globally especially in labour market and resources (apart from labour, they do still have a lot of land and natural resources).
Malaysia is assumed to have about 1% Millionaires (just a rough estimate of 1% X 30 Million Population = about 30 000 millionaires/billionaires). Which means Indonesia should have around 300 000 (1% X 300 millions populations, just a rough estimate, and not Rupiah millionaire, for the sake of argument, comparison in Ringgit Malaysia only).
On the story of the big China, she is also fine tuning its Economy's Development towards Ecological efficiency as the current 'traditional economy' which emphasis on the dependency of Oil and Gas could be disastrous (not just to the nature) but difficult to maintain due to its fluctuating world price and they have a whopping 1.2 Billions populations to feed. Most countries in the world especially in Europe are going towards the 'Ecological Age' aim to lower the dependency towards Oil and Gas. They kept on seeking for alternative energy by investing heavily on any available Green Technology. Now the big question, when Malaysia will follow the similar green foot steps? There are few pilot projects in Malaysia which aims towards this 'Ecological Age', unfortunately it is not done in a full scale yet. The government will need to commit more if its going to work.
Back to Indonesia, Volkswagen is just a start for Indonesia emergence as the new economic power in South East Asia. More companies will set up their factories in the shore of Indonesia, and I wouldn't be surprise, more operations in Malaysia will be closed down in favour of Indonesia's cheap and abundant resources. It is highly possible in the future, in a twist of fate, Malaysians will come over to Indonesia to look for jobs. True enough indeed.
goodluck VW, Indon is Toyota country, ever since the first Toyota pickup started to ply its road probably back in the 60s. They do not only conquer the marketshare, but also the public opinion via various motoring publication directly or indirectly owned by them. That's why the Koreans are having such a tough time trying to wedge their product between Toyota's.
And in country like Indon, their laws change overnight whenever it suits them. It's very fickle. VW needs lots of luck, and also lots of money to make sure things go their way.
The japs are not going to sit still, that's for sure.
Our govt is obviously not doing its job to get more FDI into this country. Thai and Indon have plenty of opportunities to advance their economic power. Malaysia is starting to lose its attractiveness and relying on Petronas.
If i m not mistaken, foreign car manufacturers like VW, GM, Toyota have invested more than RM1b into south east asia and we are NOT being one of the investment destination.
Maybe, it is time to reform the govt and let the capable one to manage our economy. It is blatantly obvious that our govt decided to close their eyes in FDI to protect umno cronies including importers like Naza, and Proton in the expense of all Malaysians interest.
Maybe it is time to change, change for a better one.
USD140 million is about equal to RM500 million!
that's very HUGE INVESTMENT!!! I think more bigger to start car production like what PROTON have in Shah Alam plant!
VW which supposedly to be our best ally but now turn to be the biggest threat to Malaysia automotive industry.. now Malaysia automotive no more time to main2, no more quality compromise, no more play2 on customers dissatisfaction.. the BEST of GERMANS ENGINEERING is at Indon side… you know la German cars, they can offer you full warranty to 10 years including engine part (because the Germans including Volkswagen are 100% confident of their car quality) which not even one of Malaysia automotive car company can offer to the customers (maybe that's why PROTON and PERODUA like to main2 with the customers dissatisfaction la)
if our attitude and quality not assured one day.. there is very high possibility our PROTON and PERODUA will tutup kilang. no more engineering because no more money to invest, but we have to be very afraid of losing customers trust especially Malaysian.. why so many people against PROJEK KERETA NASIONAL?? in the early 1980s so much people support the project, but after PROTON main2 on quality and very bad customers service so many people lost trust.. and now come the Germans.. not dog of GM like Opel but THE BIGGEST COMPANY IN GERMANY which is Volkswagen (VW) who also own the fastest cars on this earth BUGATTI VEYRON and also conquer the Le Mans in France with their AUDI cars.. I wonder what is the future of Malaysia automotive industry after this…
USD140 million is about equal to RM500 million!
that's very HUGE INVESTMENT!!! I think more bigger to start car production like what PROTON have in Shah Alam plant!
VW which supposedly to be our best ally but now turn to be the biggest threat to Malaysia automotive industry.. now Malaysia automotive no more time to main2, no more quality compromise, no more play2 on customers dissatisfaction.. the BEST of GERMANS ENGINEERING is at Indon side… you know la German cars, they can offer you full warranty to 10 years including engine part (because the Germans including Volkswagen are 100% confident of their car quality) which not even one of Malaysia automotive car company can offer to the customers (maybe that's why PROTON and PERODUA like to main2 with the customers dissatisfaction la)
if our attitude and quality not assured one day.. there is very high possibility our PROTON and PERODUA will tutup kilang. no more engineering because no more money to invest, but we have to be very afraid of losing customers trust especially Malaysian.. why so many people against PROJEK KERETA NASIONAL?? in the early 1980s so much people support the project, but after PROTON main2 on quality and very bad customers service so many people lost trust.. and now come the Germans.. not dog of GM like Opel but THE BIGGEST COMPANY IN GERMANY which is Volkswagen (VW) who also own the fastest cars on this earth BUGATTI VEYRON and also conquer the Le Mans in France with their AUDI cars.. I wonder what is the future of Malaysia automotive industry after this…
MALAYSIA GOVERNMENT, PROTON, PERODUA… there is no more time to play2 ar… no more toying customers.. ok
Malaysia G biggest blunder…as they are run by stupid goons.
Now, habuk pun tarak…
oh to those that said why always blame the govt? maybe you should step back and investigate that they are still jobless and lower income people that could use these FDI. Like some ppl commented, you cant be a chooser if you are a beggar. If you want to get tech. transfer from foreign manufacturer, you have to pay the price. Do you think it is viable to move up economic chain when mass majority of malaysians are still below average income group? another question is, our govt READY to move up economic chain?
Another funny thing is, current foreign companies in malaysia, are they bringing back money they profited from local? arent they are doing exactly the same VW will do if they deploy their manufacturing arm in Malaysia?
I agree with bobdbilder that we need to move up the economic value chain… but can it be done just with a change in mentality? our wages is not growing in tandem with the inflation… our education system lacks the cutting edge to produce the brightest students, we are still in a discussion on what language to teach our young… and remember that it takes at least 13 years to produce a full stream of students with the new language… that will make it way past 2020…
and why are we moving ahead faster than others in the region previously? do you think its strategic location of us vs our neighbours? i dont think so… our advantage is the language we speak…singapore is too expensive… indon, thai's language is not that compatible… we are the compromise with good Commonwealth country English speaking citizens and Mandarin speaking ones too to open the pathway for economic trade to China… but the advantage is slowly diminishing…
and we need money to build schools, unis and R&D center… all these need money… indirectly FDI is the one that we shd use to reinvest back for future generations coz the money in this world is in the advanced countries and we are still considered as 3rd world country in their eyes (and we are taking loans from them)… if we want their money, we sell them products… or our skills… we cant sell them P1 cars, do we? if we sell skills, means it will be us working in their plant here… and in return, of coz they get profits… simple logic… no free lunch in this world… its just to evaluate is it a lunch worth buying to eat…
but having said that, we rely on govt to bring us forward… but it seems the ppl who makes these policies are also the ppl busy arguing, sit, stand, sit stand, then argue again, and then make the script for next argument everyday… i wonder how much time they have left to bring the whole country forward…
Believe it,
In due time, Indonesia will be the powerhouse in South East Asia. Its all about the accumulated purchasing power of the citizen.
The BRIC group (Brazil, Russian, India, China) is the fastest emerging group of economy in the world. US, UK and the Europe will be losing their position (its happening now). I heard last week news that this BRIC would lobby for the inclusion of Indonesia to the group.
Simple math, if 1/2000 people in Malaysia can afford to buy a Volkswagen- the most the brand will sell is 13500 units.(27M pop)
In indonesia, if if 1/10000 people can afford a VW, still 30k of units can be sold – still a whopping 222% more – with much cheaper building cost. That is the fact.
Can u imagine Indonesian Gov improve on their overall government services (corruption same as M'sia at least), I believe Indonesia will be way-way in front of us.
Its not about the cost of production, but the market for the product. China have more than 1 trillion citizen, everthing that sells are bought. Same as Indonesia – if they have they own full fledged car industry- they have a much bigger market – more profit – more resources for R&D and improvement.
To tell u the truth, both M;sia and S'pore in deep shit. Thats which Temasek is going all over the world buying stakes in foreign companies as they knew their local income be sustained for long.
I already had a dream in my sleep I'm working in India
Omanjedi,
you want to bash others but the fact you give is completely wrong.. since when China git 1 trillion citizen?? It is only 1.4 billion.. although you try to add Taiwan and all Han Chinese in this world also can't reach 1 trillion la wei..
yeah you go la to work in India.. India currently is #4 the worst corruption in this whole Asia (since Presiden Abdul Kalam step down.. India back to their bad attitude doing so much corruption everywhere).
I wonder who are you really.. bash 2 country at the same time Malaysia and Singapura.. to tell you the truth Malaysia and Singapura have no problem with Indon and India..
It is true by Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) in term of country then Indonesia are place on #16 on World Bank and IMF, #15 on CIA World Factbook.. while Malaysia is on #30 on IMF, #28 on World Bank, #30 on CIA World Factbook
but please look more deeper Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) percapita.. Indonesia was placed on #121 on IMF, #105 on World Bank, #129 on CIA World Factbook but Malaysia was placed on #60 on IMF, #48 on World Bank, #58 on CIA World Factbook..
so it is not a simple math.. you need to be mathematical genius, VW if they want to conquer Indonesia market, the price must be cheap, the Indon citizen can't afford expensive car yet… but I believe if Malaysia level of corruption the CPI is always bad.. then there is big possibility Indon will defeat us in maybe 10 years from now..
najib said proton need foreign partner/s.
1 rebadging ,lancer for example
2 engine supplier psa, valvetronic high efficiency
3 mitsubishi using proton chassis like renault/nissan.
maybe up there is what he said
those probable that might boost up proton,,readily for libralization..
but of course proton price again should be cheaper,
mistaken figure – 1 billion + for the Chinese. the brain is thinking something else..
Its not about bashing both countries – S'pore & M'sia, but the fact is both countries has small pop which locally derived income cannot support the growing expenses + the wastage from corruption(for M'sia).
I believe there has been studies during TDM's time that indicates that M'sia alone need 70 millions pop of purchasing power in order to be an organically developed country (and sustain it) w/out the need the income of export. How many years with the current rate of birth that M;sia can have this many population?
What im trying to say is w/out any significant improvement to M'sia system & the ability to create a competent RnD for all sectors(ALL SECTORS), Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam can overtook M;sia & S'pore in not so distant future. Th e issue is all these countries have taken the step for improvement – the rapid growth of Viet eco, Suharto ousting has brougth some improvement for Indo, Thai under Thaksin.
Well?
I remember Mahathir did say in the early 90's that Malaysia needs 70 mil pop to grow and become economic powerhouse. Look at all our neighbours : Thailand 60 Mil, Phil 90 Mil, Myanmar/Burma est 55 to 60 Mil and best of all Indonesia 230 Mil. Where does Malaysia stand? 27 Mil (inclusive of foreign worker – 30 Mil). Our car market (passenger) is still one of the highest in the region (due to the subprime loans? crossing my fingers) around 500K units but now we are slowly reducing to 400 to 450K max, as market is saturated. VW? they can try but they must remember this is not South America or China. Japanese firm are very successful here – name it Aeon, Sompo Insurance, SOGO and they took more than 30 years – right after the war to come back and do business here. I remember the story of how Mr Honda himself come to Penang and talk to the late Tan Sri Loh Boon Siew to sell his motorbike alongside the bicycle. VW might try to apply the South America/China strategy but without a very strong partner (esp in Gomen hehe) they might need 10 years just to build repo, esp in the remote area like Irian and such. Toyota did reach there and all the best to them, esp Asian perception of European cars – complicated, lousy, noisy and no resell value. The koreans did try but they emerged more successful here in Malaysia.
For our Proton, we just have to see lah how our collaboration with MMC works. The TM plant maybe the next ASEAN base for MMC perhaps?
at PROTON in INDON said,
July 4, 2009 @ 10:07 pm
dude, relax. i think most of us here have the same vision.. to move forward successfully. we might not win any Nobel prize yet, but the world is not end yet. there are still time to reach for it.
it's a big chunk of money VW is pouring over in indon. but since VW decision is already firmed, what's the point of blame game? so we move forward. please do not treat this as arrogant statement, but please see it as visionary one.
on our edu system, i agree that we produce less competence undergrads. but there are still quality undergrads. all in all, i agree we should improve. we are here to comment on auto industry, so let's not talk much on education. ;)
i believe nowadays technologies expand unlike last 2-3 decades, so there's always be a way to catch the train. of course not in one or two weeks time but there is still time. :) peace!
too much corruption in Indon…. how do i know? i have project in Indon, i been there and working with local…and i know,,,, look how ananda try to get STC to invest in Natrindo/NTS GSM… why? he out of money coz of curruption… but i dont say Indonesia is bad,,, i just want to say i have to think about Indonesia situation…. but i can say that VW will survive,,,, why? coz mAlaysian will buy their car… stupiad malaysian….still want to support VW like toyota… buy your own car lah malaysian….
India? India curruption not as bad as Indonesia,,, but honestly,,,i dont trust Indian citizen,,,i all know how to talk,,but in working,.,, not all can work well…. the whole country u cant trust,,hahahah,,,so go working in India lah if u want….. comeon,,i also have project in Indialahhh,,,,
VW can do it,,, people know Indoensia hav bad curruption,, but if go to malaysia,,then market already saturate,,then for whattt???
maybe P1 need to work with Italiano in future….
AR or FIAT is also another good partner…..
Im forgotten about the foreign workers in M'sia. hehehehe..Given them 10 years job contracts and free up the financing. Surely they will buy Savvy at least. Muahaha
Savvy, the choice of Bibiks
well well, as said numerous time again and again, the consumer is the one who suffered, which they probably dont care since the purpose is getting the sales for P1 and P2 no matter what. Creating jobs for the blue collar? forget about it, they will then hit the streets to do illegals if cannot earn money. Only those APs, P1 and P2 management earning money, but the company also like crab.
Open up the market and create jobs for the people!!
Malaysia Bodoh!
no matter which way you look at it, that's a great big middle finger to proton and malaysia.
in a couple of years time we'll all have the option of buying better quality vws out of indonesia. remember afta? why the fuss?
proton is already in indonesia so i would assume there would be some reciprocal move by the msian gov to allow these cars into malaysia. if not, proton in indonesia can bungkus.
proton's loss is the consumer's gain.
No big deal. The value involved is very small, approximately a little over half billion RM. That is only enough to pay commission for one person….
Today we towering Malaysians will only be interested if the value is in many many billions. So we talk about space exploration and nuclear plants.
VW can go and jump into the sea, how dare they talk to us with such small amounts…… Malaysians are not beggars.
Somehow I cannot grasp the concept of VW prices at AFTA level. Govt definately will find ways to make sure VW prices remain the same even if assembled in Indonesia. You just can't win here folks. Well I reckon the Thais and Singaporeans will tayang their EOSs and Tuaregs on our roads soon. 100k Baht for a Scirocco, anyone?
Its ok VW have a plant in Indonesia. Indonesians don't have to come here by the dozens. Mungkin sebuah kilang VW lagi kat Bangladesh. Malaysia can always concentrate on other industries (not labour intensive). Walaupun setengah negara Asia boleh dikatakan kaya dan maju, masih ada yang datang ke Malaysia untuk cari kerja. If ASEAN countries can attract investment from abroad, it is also good for the region. We can sell to each other goods.
Ha..ha..ha…VW know who's the best country to invest. Indon is the best than Malingsia.
Paul Tan said,
July 4, 2009 @ 4:57 pm
Alot of people including myself agree with bobdbilder, just that sometimes we feel it’s not worth going through what we have to go through with the current level of Proton products before they get to the level of being competitive with foreign makes in terms of quality. They already have nice products with the Saga and Exora but sadly sometimes not put together well, and of course there is the achilles heel of the engine. But at the same time I know many personal friends who are very happy with their Proton, with only some gripes about how the service center is sometimes priced way more expensive than third party centers, and at times lembab. So in terms of quality it’s pretty much a Russian Roulette kind of bet. Plonk your money down and you might get a great car or you might get a nightmare. Why can’t it be a great car more often or better still, all the time? That is the direction Proton has to go.
—————————————————————
yup, paul what you've said are right… local car makers especially p1 should focus on producing cars that the majority (if not all) users are truly satisfied!~
a18 wrote
maybe P1 need to work with Italiano in future….
AR or FIAT is also another good partner…..
—–
yeaahhh.. good suggestion there.. Italian really well know for the works "state of art".. Leonardo Da Vinci, Michael Angelo, Pisa towers, leaning tower of pisa, collesseum, rome.. and FERRARI, BUGATTI VEYRON..
FIAT owned FERRARI… and currently PETRONAS MALAYSIA is with FIAT, YAMAHA and Valentino Rossi in MotoGP, plus we have Jean Todt as official Malaysia tourism ambassador (ex-Ferrari F1 mastermind with legendary Michael Schumacher).. if we can make technology transfer with the italians, it should be a very good news for Malaysia automotive industries.. :)
Proton in Indo. = Get a life !!!
M'sia's lost its opportunity to be a global player.
& here u talking cock & bull story.(!)
Ferrari will never build a sedan.
9166= That's the arrogant msian mentality
US140mil = small amount.?
….sad.
Like I have said before. Campro is a good engine. CPS technology is as good as Vtec and almost simliar to Variocam. When Proton came out with Waja/Impian, a review from an auto magazine in UK suggested that VW learn from Proton in terms of ride, handling and precise steering. That magazine was comparing Impian with the then VW Golf if I am not mistaken.
Look we have bigger market than Malaysia. Population of 220 million and still a lot of land and lot of resources. Regarding the unskilled labor force in Malaysia. I don't like it that they are there and treated like crap. However the labor there don't reflect Indonesia skilled labor. Do remember that Petronas learned from Pertamina (but Pertamina was stupid in to corruption and we had to cope with their stupid management)
Regarding cars I think we have more Mercedes and BMW's driving in Jakarta compared to KL. Hell we even have the C and E-class as taxis and even the Alphard we have turned it into a taxi. The regular taxi are the dugong Vios.
The CKD Touran has just been launched here and costs around IDR 395 million on the road. Autobild Indonesia still considers it as expensive. If they had priced it around the CKD Honda Freed with a starting price of IDR 255 million they could do better.
I only see all Indonesians built houses, offices and towers for Malaysian… given strict guideline, they could match anything quality that you ask them to achieve. Honestly.
And yet Malaysian in general still believe that they having extra edge and more superior over Indonesian… Wake up Malaysian, nation building is not just making a piece of crap put 4 wheels and run on the road… There is more to that.
If Proton decided to be their own boss, let them be and give us good product and good result, stop asking money from the government. so that budget can go for other worthy nation building.
If Dr M are so confidence about 2020, now is just about another 11 years to go. We should drop all this crap and build a place that all Malaysian desired. Both economically and cultural advancement.
You are right. Tell that to those that walk the corridors of power and bring them back to reality. Maybe and perhaps they can't afford for VW to show how much cheaper a plant can be built. Proton plant cost in the billions even many moons ago. So better let VW go somewhere else than the rakyat asking more questions. Especially when GE is in a few years.
AGus said,
July 7, 2009 @ 4:45 am
Proton in Indo. = Get a life !!!
M’sia’s lost its opportunity to be a global player.
& here u talking cock & bull story.(!)
Ferrari will never build a sedan.
9166= That’s the arrogant msian mentality
US140mil = small amount.?
….sad.
at the end of the day, the wise still sits in kopitiam talk about everything. while the top position in the country are those dumb and corrupt, which is the main culprit of all the GLC is not performing.
at consumer standpoint, Perodua is better than proton.
At R&D standpoint, maybe proton is good, but if Britain cannot afford its own Local Brand, what makes Malaysia better than they do? why do we keep on protecting proton, while we can even go to purchase Lotus, and Rover nearly bankrupt and UK gomen din give a sh1t about that?
Agus wrote..
Proton in Indo. = Get a life !!!
M’sia’s lost its opportunity to be a global player.
& here u talking cock & bull story.(!)
Ferrari will never build a sedan.
9166= That’s the arrogant msian mentality
US140mil = small amount.?
….sad.
——
LOL.. I'm not just talking about Ferrari but FIAT as a whole and they do make sedan la
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat
FIAT is the parent company of FERRARI and also the main sponsor of Valentino Rossi together with PETRONAS MALAYSIA.. Fiat has also manufactured tanks and aircraft. As of 2009, Fiat is the world's 6th largest carmaker as well as Italy's largest carmaker.
now VW already chose indon so no use.. better aim another giant car maker for partnership, Italian engineering also great what, if not then why F1 really famous with Italian Ferrari and did you know in Japan.. there is a culture called ITASHA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itasha
ITASHA stand for fanaticm of japanese anime otaku on Italian brand cars, which decorated their italian wannabe cars with anime character.. Italy also have a big influence in Japan..
so my suggestion.. can ask FIAT from Italy to be a good partner with Malaysia automotive companies, furthermore Malaysia is a bridge between West and Asian cultures and business trade.. FIAT only have joint venture in Italy, France, Turkey, India, Serbia and Russia… not yet in Malaysia or East Asia market.. so there is a big chance to "pancing" #1 Italian cars manufacturer from Italy which is also own Ferrari.. we have PETRONAS in MotoGP cooperate with FIAT and Valentino Rossi, hopefully FIAT and Italy will be interested to share their best Italian engineering and transfer technology with Malaysia (if can get the tanks and aircraft technology then it will be more awesome).. Malaysia can help them to increase their car sales because of AFTA rules.
"No big deal. The value involved is very small, approximately a little over half billion RM. That is only enough to pay commission for one person….
Today we towering Malaysians will only be interested if the value is in many many billions. So we talk about space exploration and nuclear plants.
VW can go and jump into the sea, how dare they talk to us with such small amounts…… Malaysians are not beggars."
It not just about the USD140mil!
I dont think VW can sell as many as toyota do, indo same like malaysian they prefered japanese. For those with purchasing power better buy BMW or Mercz. I admit VW is a big name but not in asia world. VW for asia's is a 2nd class brand same like citreon,audi,renault etc. Again people will vote for BMW or Mercz. Sorry VW.
To foreign manufacture, please also invest to Bangladesh, Vietnam, India… Pekerja asing please go back to work in your motherland, we are no enough job for you all, you just make us less job and low salary, please go back.
Later our female worker work as maid and male worker as cleaner at hyper market with rm1.8k++ salary, 8 hour + ot, 5 working day per week, their kancil can send back to p2 oredi. Good dear… b