Now that most of the regional automotive manufacturing and assembly has gone to Thailand, the biggest buzzword that had been uttered repeatedly during the period where the NAP review was being formulated was hybrid cars and green technology.
So we had to shift focus. The government was quite bent on trying to get a piece of the green pie instead. Or so it seemed, there was plenty of talk in the papers. And you know what they say, supposedly in ASEAN you build your pick-ups in Thailand, your MPVs and vans in Indonesia and your passenger cars in Malaysia. That’s supposedly what kept Volkswagen interested despite flip-flop partnership decisions in the first place.
The new National Automotive Policy review offers a cocktail of R&D grants, duty exemptions, fiscal incentives to whoever invests in the assembly or manufacturing of hybrid and electric vehicles. For automakers, you’ll get 100% Pioneer Status/Investment Tax Allowance for 10 years, training and R&D grants in addition to existing grants, 50% exemption on excise duty on CKD/manufactured vehicles from the IAF.
For hybrid parts suppliers such as electric motors, batteries, Battery Management System, inverters, electric-powered air conditioning, and air compressors, you will get 100% Pioneer Status for 10 years and 100% Investment Tax Allowance for 5 years.
Even before the NAP review was announced, there was one measure that was announced leading up to these new hybrid/EV car incentives announced during the Budget 2009 last year. Imports of CBU hybrid vehicles were given an exemption on import duty and a 50% excise duty exemption. These exemptions will end on the 31st of December 2010 and the NAP review mentions no intention to extend this deadline. If you want to grab a Prius or a Civic Hybrid, you’d better do so before the end of next year, as prices on these cars are sure to go up.
The biggest blow to the government’s green dreams was the announcement that Toyota was going to setup a hybrid manufacturing facility in Thailand. One of the cars that were to be assembled is the Toyota Camry Hybrid. Toyota sells the most hybrid vehicles among all automakers and they are probably the first to setup a hybrid plant outside of their ‘home ground’. Because of their best-seller status, they are able to get the volumes to justify new investments not only in Thailand, but in Australia and soon the UK.
Even with the new lower price of RM129,980 (RM1,180 higher than the Civic 2.0S), Honda Malaysia Sdn Bhd only managed to register a total of 100 units of the new Honda Civic Hybrid in Malaysia as of July 2009, and this is the total amount registered since its introduction in our market. The numbers for the much more expensive Toyota Prius certainly will not do any better.
It looks like hybrid cars remain a niche product here despite reduced pricing and there is simply no volume for any car manufacturer to even think of setting up Malaysian assembly facilities, let alone manufacturing facilities. Unless of course you are talking about the ‘SKD’ trickery that some car companies are successfully pulling off. All Honda hybrids are so far assembled at its Suzuka plant.
The government has failed to understand that the production of hybrid vehicles cannot be simply placed anywhere a car company likes – there has to be an ecosystem of hybrid component suppliers as well. It’s a completely different chicken and egg scenario than the one the government thought was most important – pricing and acceptance of hybrid cars which they attempted to solve with the CBU hybrid car incentives that managed to bring the prices of the Civic Hybrid and the Prius down in Malaysia.
And now that Toyota – the largest seller of hybrid vehicles in the world – has placed a hybrid production center in Thailand, guess where the hybrid supplier eco-system is going to be?
The only thing we can do now is sit and wait for hybrid vehicles to take off in terms of acceptance and sales internationally. Then maybe some will come here. But that’s a big maybe. We can look at companies like Ford and GM. GM has a big base in Thailand but they’ve shown some interest in facilities here in the past. We’ve already covered how the Chevrolet Volt is simply too expensive a vehicle to make for what it is, but perhaps the next generation of GM hybrids.
Ford has also shown some improvement in its hybrid car sales – it’s hot on Honda’s heels to take the position of the #2 hybrid seller in the US from the Japanese company. But still, all of these hybrid cars from non-Japanese manufacturers are very US-centric – all medium to large SUVs pretending to be green by adding a motor-assist system in order to comply with weird CAFE systems. They won’t sell in any kind of decent numbers here, not in Malaysia, not in this region, so no reason to assemble them here. Ford Europe is relying more on diesel but the Ford Kuga will be the first European hybrid for the company.
But seriously, for any of that to happen, there will be a gap of years and years in between the end of the CBU import incentives and the introduction of the first locally assembled/produced hybrid car. Prices will shoot up skywards all over again. Hybrid cars will once again become unaffordable. When the cars are not on the road, people will be less exposed to them. Whatever low level of acceptance that hybrid cars currently have will once again go down the drain. And then the first CKD hybrid car will roll out with a decent price, with everyone being afraid to actually buy it.
Do you see what’s wrong with the picture?
Looking to sell your car? Sell it with Carro.
most ppl prefer not to get a hybrid car even though the price is not much different from the normal variant (Honda civic), because they are worried about maintanence. Perhaps there should be more exposure about the maintanence costs compared to the normal variant.
btw, wat about the EV??Proton and Detroit??no news??
for as long as proton is here, the people must suffer. Once all the foreign company establish their factory in Thailand, it is very unlikely for them to move to Malaysia, even if our gov offer free land and no tax. Soon, Thailand will have its own eco-system, thus parts will be cheaper. A real Detroit city of the east.
The government should have sold proton off, or share proton with other asean nation. Make it an Asean car, they can ask their 'good' brother from Indonesia.
All this policies are syok sendiri measures to provide level playing field to local manufactures…. Proton since 1980s are wholely protected company. I got a friend in Dubai just brought his first car. Honda Accord 2.4 for RM90K. So you all can imagine why proton is protected like a kindergarten kid because car industry is a cut throat field…
Q: "Do you see what’s wrong with the picture?"
A: Yes, I see a normal looking picture of a Civic Hybrid! LOL
Seriously, this is a hastily made move to save face. The government probably realised a little too late that they made some mistakes resulting in some major car companies shifting their investments elsewhere.
The only saving grace now is to come up with a niche offer in green vehicle technology and court some international car makers to set-up base here. Because this seems to done in a haste, there are a lot of loose ends that government needs to tie-up in terms of policies and regulations.
Sweet deals are created for foreign investors and we should be able to see some Investments pour in as early as the first quarter.
BUT, the BIG question is, when will we benefit?
Already, the local hybrid car market is slow to pick up even though the government has been preaching about environmentally friendly technologies and the need to go green.
In order to cross from the niche category to the mass category, the Hybrid car market that will need a lot of help and push from the immediate stakeholders – The government and the manufacturers.
If they were serious about it in the first place, they should have offered more incentives for hybrid car ownership in Malaysia.
Your points are nicely debated. I'm working on a piece as well. Your article will be among my references.
*YAWN*
Is it over already?
First the say scrap the scrapped parts because they didn't want cars to have "inferior parts" on the road, then they say all imported used cars are big no-no, then now they try to lure a non-existant market of hybrid car makers into a not very lucrative market that hasn't accepted hybrids for their plain ridiculously expensive prices. This tells me that car crime will be on the rise as cheap parts will be in high demand and people will be forced into buying substandard local cars again.
I agree with Ngan, sell off Proton to someone who can manage it better. Let Proton be their problem and do something about giving us cheaper hybrids. RM130k for a hybrid just isn't financially viable!! You'll only be able to "fully utilize" your "savings" after quite a number of years of driving on the road!
If they weren't so busy fighting amongst themselves, we might've gotten a much better budget offering this year.
(All sources of my accusations taken from the Star)
it's all a BIG JOKE… these politicians WILL NEVER know the pains of the common man because they get nice cars with drivers which they DON'T PAY for. in fact, WE are the ones paying for their nice cars, big bungalows, 2nd & 3rd wives…
So yet again, the common rakyat is screwed left, right, center.. maybe I should become a politician so that I can get all the benefits and screw the rest of you. muahahahaha!
sigh…
i don't understand why after so many years ppl still vote for the same party that gave us the most fucked up policies and then complain about it….XDD
Malaysian automotive policy maker sucks….They think producing of hybrids is just about potong the engine and paste some electric motor????? Elsewhere around the world, govts are giving superior tax relief to promote hybrids and EVs..Damn it..protective strategy..NOT AGAIN!!!
what does S in "SKD" stands for Paul? _______ Knocked-Down…
u talk all this because of car or politic? haha.. so why not u became Calon Bebas next election.. sure all P1 basher and desperate to buy P2 guy will choose you.. haha..
anyway..when talk about Proton and Politik..this thread at least got 300 comment..haha..
Programmer is telling the truth that his friend in Dubai just brought his first car. Honda Accord 2.4 for RM90K.
U know what, I am working in Saudi Arabia now (Email from Saudi Arabia) and the Honda Accord 2.4 here (the highest spec one) is approximately SAR 94K about RM 85K. I think in Malaysia it is somewhere around RM 175K (Even then I doubt it is of the highest spec?), U see it is RM 100K plus u have to pay and I do not know it goes to whose (or which company) pocket – u know better.
Also, For your info, they are using the latest Toyota CAMRY as TAXI.
So u guys will know now how much we have been ripped off by the G for the past 2 decades.
Sad Indeed …………
Paul, can you elaborate a little more on the 'ecosystem' you mentioned? i thought the government's tax incentives for suppliers of hybrid systems was a step in the right direction? sorry, not trying to be anal here. just trying to understand the facts.
thanks.
martin tan said,
October 29, 2009 @ 12:35 pm
it’s all a BIG JOKE… these politicians WILL NEVER know the pains of the common man because they get nice cars with drivers which they DON’T PAY for. in fact, WE are the ones paying for their nice cars, big bungalows, 2nd & 3rd wives…
So yet again, the common rakyat is screwed left, right, center.. maybe I should become a politician so that I can get all the benefits and screw the rest of you. muahahahaha!
sigh…
—————————————–
who knows u might suander us more hahaha.
I know my family is all politician including me. We devide our membership. We have BN and PR. But we all are family members. U can see the link if u look closely.
Saja nak bocor rahsia…
My life is good two beemer and three merc i own. Bungalows and Conduminums..
HHaaaha dont report to SPRM aaa.
Kita 1 Malaysia dan Malaysian Malaysia ok
waiting period for for new prius has gone up to 8 months with about 100 bookings received….
UMWT is struggling to get more units from japan to meet high demands. originally they only planned to sell 4 units per month with allocations from TMC of 40 units only…
What is wrong with the picture?
Answer:
1) The G does not know how to build an industry to benefit the WORKERS by generating more job opportunity
2) The G only wants to benefits their own suppliers only
Speaking that Proton has spend billions in this industry is a joke. It is the close economy policy that FORCE the people to buy the cheapest car. Proton car got quality that is why dont want to drop price? This is the biggest joke of the past 20 years in Automotive industry. Common, we are no idiots.
If the person set the rules is part of the pie being shared, do you think the decision or policy made will be fair and benefits the public? It will only benefits those who set the rules. Period.
Bye bye for those who set the policies, ur last chance to get back the public is gone.
"Do you see what’s wrong with the picture?"
Yes, there's a few Toyotas and Hondas.
government want us to go green…?
if thats the case..
dont just concentrate on hybrids/ev..
slash also the tax for all the eco-friendly cars equipped with the superior tech engine laa..
thats also contributes to greener/cleaner environments right?
for example,
new tech engines can run with minimal use of fuel (be it petrol/diesel) compared to old techs right?
so, if still want to protect proton..
ask proton to develop sumtin really good for the environment that complies with all the strict regulations..world standards i mean..
and also, why is it proton can sell their car at the same RM value as the more superior quality imported cars (if u dont count in the tax la)..?
see here for the REAL price list of imported cars..without tax! just reading it will make u mad n wonder why the hell proton can sell the perdana at RM100k if the cheapest BMW without tax can be priced lower than RM100k?
does perdana beats the bmw in terms quality and techs?
i'll leave that to u guys to think..which would u prefer..
i'm not saying proton makes crappy cars..just that for local ppl also i still think proton cars (or any national make for that matter) are priced way beyond their original costs..
how can we support local made then?
then make us scrap our old but still reliable car and force us to buy a new car? not everyone can afford an imported car..
so, does that means we're stuck to buy local makes again..?
buy car of course needed loan unless u are damn rich..
what would the pensioners do then?
apply for new loan that would take their whole lifetime to finish?
and then another 15yrs or so, scrap it n apply new loan for a new car?
or dont use car at all? – what about those who really cant afford a new car at all?
i just dont understand the situation much..
cuz to me, local cars are ok..
but its still quite expensive even for the locals to consider..
call me stingy, but i believe that if i could get an imported car with the same value i would get with the locals..i would want that local car to be as good as the imported ones, it better be good right?
if not, why on earth locals made cars also damn mahal?
(to compare apple to apple la..)
maybe someone might want to teach me about economic scale blablabla…
i'm just ranting anyways…;)
i dont think i could afford a car..be it local or imported in the near future..
back to the public transportation then..<-that also should be taken care of i believe..
I think the high price of cars in Malaysia is due to the protection of Proton. In addition, the tax collected is the biggest income to the goverment.
sorry, see Here for the real pricelist of imported cars without tax..
http://media.paultan.org/pricelist.pdf
Pevgeot is the best national car to take for example for proton. Up to date R&D and design is also advanced.
My bet is that somehow Proton has managed to convince the Gov that it can produce hyprid car
better an EV than Hybrid though..
hybrid still uses fuel..ev fully electric right?
as long teh G protects national cars…
most rakyat wont enjoy cheaper cars with new technologies…
that's what it says on the title…Half baked..
anyone here in the govt/NGO that can influence further policies…? better write up to those who can make a difference rather than just wasteful banter here.
stop complaining laa malaysian. time to take action. change the gov. if cannot change the gov, then give up nationality. go move to thailand or dubai where you can buy accord 2.4 for RM90K. hahahahaha. if you cannot do both, then you are looser who just keep complain and complaininggg.
funny..
dont u complain if u were forced to buy a new car every 15yrs eventhough ur old 15yrs old car was still reliable to u? – my question, why waste it?
dont u complain if u were able to get lancer gt 2.0 at rm70k instead of a rm65k locally made for local ppl waja?
shouldnt we at least say anything about it?
yeah, we shoudnt..
we just mere poor/middle incomed ppl..
we're nobody..n nobody cares for the likes of us.. :P
Aiya~~~
Strange policy it is…
1 gov official was quoted in papers saying prices of cars won't come down and we might have to pay more but we will get "value for money". Huh? Pay more for value for money?
Anyway I think the gov can forget about attracting the Japanese here. They're all in or going to Thailand. Might as well just work towards getting the Europeans here. But then Europeans favor diesel more than hybrid and I'd say their diesels are as efficient (and maybe a bit more) as hybrids, especially on the highways.
So how? Will the monkeys know how to mend this situation?
Well… did we really expect anything better?
That is the real "1Malaysia" we are getting….
I want to migrate to Dubai lor.. because i want to buy Hi spec honda Accord at RM90k…
but i have only RM2000 in my bank.. so how..
this Gov basher just want the car.. but u not buy the car.. u buy the BRAND…
I guess its very hard to become a motorhead in mysia. Cars are too expensive, locally made cars not up to par,our roads were bad enough but yet we still love driving. But it will be worsen when we cannot have imported used parts or recon cars to play with. Yet we still love cars.
If Saga produced by Toyota or Honda.. i thing it will sell like Pisang goreng panas…
anyway..i choose Wajalution..haha.. where is it? just show us the latest news Paul about Wajalution… last time in 1996-200X , most people buy wira and convert it to Mitsu… When Wajalution era comes… Myvi totally die…
how come the civic hybrid and toyota prius price now will end by 31 dec 2010???? y u bual kosong??? wtf….our gov….wanna up the price again…cheeebbbaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
lets start the revolution
Perhaps the high cost of car ownership will encourage more carpooling and improve demand for public transportation. Or perhaps there'll be more bicycles and motorcycles on the road (like China, 20 years ago).
But then if that happens, demand for cars will be low. So what advantage is there for the foreign companies to set up shop here? Or even for P1 & P2 to stay in business?
yes, thats the phrase..
"high cost of car ownership.."
be it local made or imported..
it seems, maybe sooner or later we will rather be taking public transport or bicycles to go to work/school..
so, back to square one with auto-industries here in malaysia..
that is if only the public transport can be made reliable enough though…..
why do we all pretend we care? so all of us going to green cars but still ask for extra plastic bags at tesco cashier. we all shouting how expensive is green cars but we blast the aircond, let the water runs, drive to 7-11 when it just a 5 min walk, never recycle used papers, burn trash at your backyard. that is the problem, we cry for first world policies and standards, but we got 3rd world mentality.
so before we can pretend we are going to buy green cars, ask yourself when was the last time you plant a tree?
as for the half baked plans from NAP, no point talking about it when you have oversized politicians like samy running the country. time to change.
What's wrong with the picture?
The fact that anyone would choose a hybrid over a diesel!
Diesels are known to have superior mileage, are cheaper to manufacture and are arguably greener than any hybrids. Ask the Europeans how many hybrids they sell over there a year…
The prejudice against diesel in America and Japan are the only reasons hybrids have any sort of traction in those countries.
And whatever happened to biodiesel research? Surely it's worth spending more time and money on this if saving the ultimate goal is saving the planet.
Plus, with Hybrid cars, you'd have tons of Ni-MH / Ni-Cd batteries to dispose of in future.
Paul, it's not half baked. it is 'melepas batuk di tangga' policy actually.
LOL, I just spent 20 mins to go through the comments and found that this is such a waste of bandwith.
The way I look at the comments, there are 3 groups of people here :
A) those whom are severely disappointed with the New Policy eg Paul and the majority of the readers;
B) those whom are here to justify the government’s action, no doubt our infamous UMNO cybertroopers;
C) those whom are posted overseas and could make better judgements between different countries policies.
From the points put forth by these commentators, there then exists 2 main opinions :
1) A and C argues the case for free market autonomy; and
2) B argues for protectionist measures.
It is just me (and it doesn’t even take my PhD to help me evaluate the matter) or are you guys so silly as to be blinded by the fact that no matter how patient you argue forth your case with examples and pricing tariffs, people in this B group would not be convinced. They are clearly within the limits of the protectionism measures (perhaps they are working in local manufacturers factories, or are mechanics whom need a steady supply of ill-made and ill-put-together cars so that their bengkels would continue having businesses, or are locals whom think that their Rusas are the best MPVs in the world just because they can’t afford an Estima/Elgrand like the rest of them whom have made it- with hard efforts, if I may add) and the removal of these measures would suddenly jeopardise their status, although they don’t have much to start with.
Well, this is the typical frog-in-well attitude. If they would just spend time improving themselves (for starters, start reading real English and learn to write proper sentences with minimal typos and grammatical errors), they would suddenly find that the world is much bigger an entity than what they have thought thus far, and BN’s way is not the only way to govern a country.
We have been slipping off the development status with every passing year and so many countries in ASEAN- some whom were more backward than us, have catched up with us and surpassed us even eg Thailand and Indonesia (well, to an extent), as car manufacturers flock to them with investments and job opportunities, just because they come out with policies that make sense (unlike ours that change at every drop of the coin). And we are talking about countries with ex-premiers like Thaksin, whom was not that smart to begin with.
We have alleged criminals running the country to the ground. If only these people could focus on their womanising and anal penetrations instead of making stupid policies that affect the rest of us, Malaysia would have been a better country.
Even a liberal Malay like me feel ashamed to have my country associated with stupid policies too often too much in the international dailies. Go on, UMNO troopers, I bet you guys would now write flaming statements and ask me to go to China, Korea or UAE because I don’t subscribe to your way of thinking (but that’s my right in a democratic country, beb :) . Go on, track my IP address- I use a proxy software so you won’t find me based in Malaysia, silly backward retards.
Sheesh, what a sad bunch of crybabies we have here!
Sipping my latte in Starbucks now… catch me if you can :)
PS : Paul, I hope you’d be able to liberate these retards with your articles and readers’ comments over time. A tall order- yes, but we can dream, can’t we?
Well…. I got a business proposition in light of events…..
To manufacture and supply full assemblies and sub-assemblies for horse or bull carraiges….. That will be the gold mine in 10 years time looking where NAP is going.
If the G want us to be eco-friendly. It should have promote us to use Bio-petrol or Bio-diesel first! Since we produce a lot of oil palm, why not use them!?! Besides that, i am supporting for Diesel technology.
Diesel technology is proven to be more economical, less part & maintanence compare to EV or Hybrid technology. Just imagine in our country which have a lot of floods, if ur EV stuck in the flood say good bye all ur electronics.
Have u all seen the topgear challenge about the Toyota Hilux. Just think about the durability of diesel engine and compare to other type of engine. New technology turbo diesel have proven to last longer and more economical compare to other technology, even a Honda Civic Hybrid FC is worst compare to VW Polo Bluemotion diesel engine.. Just check it out in the web.
Besides that, European already going for Diesel-hybrid which will churn even more better FC compare to the counterpart.
MegaMoe :-)
I'm gonna start a bike business.
spot-on analysis, Paul! I totally agree with you & as some here have highlighted… so no need for me to add to this half-baked 'put together last minute' kind of policy by MITI.
Am so so disappointed… no REAL & TANGIBLE improvements to our car industry and policies… we WILL lag behind Thailand if this is the sign of things to come from our policymakers…
Msia car market is very unique… The high car price (vs per capita income) and subsidized fuel price, will never encourage hybrid car ownership… At least not in next 5-10 yrs becoz we are still struggling to buy a car and we cant afford to be choosy…
Its better to look forward to EV tech and skip the whole hybrid thing… The 2 best FC for cars now is latest turbo-diesel and hybrid, which none Proton has atm… we all know govt wont push for any new tech unless Proton can get a piece of the cake…
Think further… focus on either diesel, hybrid or EV… dont try to be jack of all trades… extension of LRT line take 3-4 years… an efficient MRT system takes 10 yrs… we got independence since 50 yrs ago… how many 10 yrs we got? start the chase… even bangkok has started their MRT… save msia, before our productivity level went down the drain becoz of traffic jams and couldnt compete with neighbouring countries…
Is it time to consider migrating to Vietnam? They might overtake us too one day. :(
I didn't get it why hybrid cars shouldn't be exampted from tax. How long the subsidized fuel will stay? I read about recently launched Prius, the battery as claimed by Toyota can stand for 15 years of usage.
How about CNG/ gas fuelled vehicle? Why there is no plan to set up stations in major cities? Should we suffer in the next fuel hike?
Last week oil price hit 82USD.Today's 77.40USD
Yeah, actually Proton has managed to convince G on their capability of producing EV. They will have a lot of EV promotions program next year.
epol said,
October 29, 2009 @ 2:31 pm
stop complaining laa malaysian. time to take action. change the gov. if cannot change the gov, then give up nationality. go move to thailand or dubai where you can buy accord 2.4 for RM90K. hahahahaha. if you cannot do both, then you are looser who just keep complain and complaininggg.
—————————————————————-
I assume you are a WINNER who is overseas-based and do not need to worry about your family/children's future (you may be single)… and you may have no family/parent obligations in Msia to take care of. It won't be so easy to take your old dad/mom abroad. It's them who will suffer from the incompetencies and/or wrong decisions made by the people in Govt of present time…. in anycase, you don't need to label people, if they want to write views, let them lah, same goes to you… but no need to call anyone WINNER or LOSER for that matter… but one thing though, I agree with you about changing the Govt if we can, we should give someone else a chance… can I choose you to run for PM, epol?
If I stick a 12V motor and a battery pack in a Kancil. Will I be able to sell it as a hybrid?
I guess not too since the government will never grant me a license to "manufacture" the car. So much for open market.
4G63tDSM, Spot on man…
This is what we call political motivated business… Haiz.. Should have not mix Business + Politics. We people is the one which suffer the last…
i agree,, diesel car better nowaday
co2 less, more torque, less expnsive, fuel saver
alots more than petrol,,
if combined wit all those hybrid, i thnk btter coz
we still have more power,less CC n save almost all things
still green what…..
does saudi gives citizenship easily?..ill migrate for the sake of my dream car…i wish in 10 years time all these rubbish will be gone and we can own all the imported cars at its original price…i wanna own a BMW M5…sigh
money they made. we just pay the bill.
let move to thailand
As always, when it comes to new technology. Be it automotive or not, we always got it 5 years later than other countries. Technologies improve every single day. See how far back we have been left behind?
I know few people who are on MTEN and who are crafting this NAP thing. Only one thing is on their mind, Proton protectionism.
I would really like to suggest to whoever in MITI incharge of automotive sector to get you onboard. But then, when you are in there, you will be forced to be bias to proton as well.
Our tax structure is not like UK where its by CO2 emmissions, but by engine size. If its by CO2 emissions, surely people will buy the greenest car around. But then maybe engines used in protons fails to be green in the first place? Then there is the fuel subsidy status. Gov adamant want to remove fuel subsidies, but goes and increase car tax rate.
I would really like to see the balance book at the ministry from all the taxes made from cars and how much of that is spend on fuel. I bet that it is very profitable for the gov to still subsidise fuel but same time put tax on cars.
We are slowly but definitely losing our ability to attract foreign investors. This is despite the fact that we have better infrastructure, low direct cost of business operation and many others as compared to many countries around us. Compared to Sg, we have the land space. Compared to Indonesia and Thailand, we are free from many of the natural disasters and political instability that they have to endure. Vietnam,Myanmar Philippines are still improving their infrastructure.
But, auto players prefer them to us. Go ponder.
I tend to agree with u mystvearn
i agreed with most of the brothers here that stupid proton make us suffer.
we should stop support them by stoping buying any proton (even second hand).
and advice all we know to stop buy proton, perodua, etc.
futher more, we should change the goverment.
hopefully, by then we all can have good car at much lower price.
and not wasting our money to proton to burn money in 1 malaysia F1 team or going to some one's pocket. and yet we all endanger our life with the low quality car.
Panasonic DSLR is MLM expert@ goreng ayat..sipping latte at starbuck and waiting his prospect to buy his 'alat jimat electric' and join his MLM network.
Yes, our tax system seems biased. Weren't we told that one of the reasons car import duties were high is that it's used to help subsidize our petrol? So now they want to float petrol price yet maintain high duties on cars?
squawk said,
October 29, 2009 @ 7:52 pm
Yes, our tax system seems biased. Weren’t we told that one of the reasons car import duties were high is that it’s used to help subsidize our petrol? So now they want to float petrol price yet maintain high duties on cars?
——————————-
if you calculate it properly, the money collected through the duties would be more than sufficient to subsidize our petrol for 250 years
ei? what happen to the pro-proton?
well, thats the sad truth. as long as protectionism is here, we will always suffer, without a doubt!
btw, Honda brought in the Insight into Sg already.
Maybe Pro-Proton fans felt ashamed that they need more protection from Pama (Gov).. lolz
hahaha!
Malaysian automotive industry is really stagnant for so many years now…
Proton is the main culprit and evrybody knows this…
The sad thing is that the Government lacks serious insight in tackling this issue and by the time they realized this, it's already waaaaayyy too late…
We lose foreign investors, we r saddled by exorbitant prices, rakyat suffers more day by day, we ride in inferior quality cars, we lose our competitive edge in the automotive economy…
To add to the sorrow, this situation is definitely not going to be resolved at least in our lifetime as Government is way too obtunded and blinded by the truth…
gesundheit said,
October 29, 2009 @ 12:50 pm
what does S in “SKD” stands for Paul? _______ Knocked-Down…
———————
SKD mean semi knock down. it has been practice in malaysia. as i know Pregio,Ssanyong,activa ,LDV and nazaria has been import by this term.
they only need to fix tyre,engine,doors,glass screen and the units will be ready in 5 hours. they paid import tax as CKD.
another thing is that thailand do not have much red tape.
I don't expect much from this govt years ago. They still think in their own twisted little world that govt can change the auto industry overnight just by announcing all these policies that looks brilliant on paper yet yields nothing in reality.
If I'm in charge, I would listen to the demands of big auto manufacturers what they want and try to accommodate them, so that they are committed to invest in Malaysia.
The problem with our govt servants is that they are " small thinkers" and not thinking outside the box. Somehow, they just couldn't get over this saving the PROTON mentality.i THINK proton WILL CONTINUE TO BE THE MONKEY ON THEIR BACK and we'll never get where we want.
Forget Proton, it's just a little fish in a big pond of full of sharks.Technology continue to move forward with every new models and to think of PROTON to be able to catch up with them, not in my lifetime.
HEY MALAYSIAN,
DREAM BIG AND BE A LITTLE BRAVE.
The only reasons for all this stupid policy are BN goverment and Proton… things that we can do are…
1)let PKR won in the next election
2)let us all boycott Proton untill it goes bankrupt. Buy perodua cars if u cant afford imported car.
Let us all do this as 1malaysian citizen for better future of automotive industry in our country…….
boycott proton for a brighter future
Proton should be grateful because of the federal government support. Yet, they are being very 'sombong' as if they have conquer the Malaysian automotive industry. If they want to survive in the auto industry and still want to be protected, learn for Hyundai. Then, Proton can be called Malayisa's national pride.
XXXX THE PROTON!!!
**********************************
WHY DOES ACTUALLY PROTON EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE ??
*************************************
Allow my innocent thought, isn;t that when MALAYSIA wanna build our own car was to making more profit for the country, so that the nation would not spend so much and 'export' the money to oversea??
We all know that thru out the year, or it was being design the way that PROTON is a "money tree" for some ppl up there..and i believe it is…
NOW u see thailand no need to build own car, but can still keep sucking in the money..making more job opportunities for the nations.. thus, make the country income grow by attracting all the japs or euro to setup hubs over there~~
so wat;s the point for keeping PROTON alive?
I SINCERELY HOPE PROTON CLOSE DOWN ASAP…
DEAR ALL THE PIG HEAD GOVN, DUN MAKE US STUPID, LET US SUFFER..BCOS OF YOUR PROTON PROTECTION.. MANY KAMPUNG PPL, POOR PPL ESPECIALLY MALAY HAS TO PACK THE WHOLE FAMILY IN A KANCIL.. !!!!
Fxxxxk …30k buy a satin can??? tiu!
Yeah, you're RIGHT, F*** me SIDEWAYS, i just saw the pricelist of cars wo tax , BLIMEY!…. i know tax is good income for the government, but this is wayy too much…, anyhow.. cars in europe is not that cheap considering you have to pay the insurance premium which costs a bom, in malaysia, nobody reads the contract… pish posh on the calculator, voila , this much you have to pay a month, ok , il buy. seeing the car's pricelist…, I guess almost all Malaysians can afford to get their hands on imported cars….
I'm a Medic student btw, im lucky enough to travel to alot of countries, europe, eastern europe, Asean countries, i would just like to say that, Malaysia is not so bad, Malaysians, even with internet , are not exposed to the outside world, pls, take Airasia, its cheapest in the world, see other countries, you'll appreciate Malaysia more and more, trust me on this. In europe , you can't eat outside like how we do, breakfast, lunch and dinner, its expensive, you can't be rich, cuz of tax , you'll have your Beemer, but just 1, cuz tax and insurance is expensive, in Malaysia, The average number of car per household now is up to 3! 3!damnit.
In Malaysia, Healthcare is provided, you dont have to buy healthcare,
So pls, stop bashing proton and the G, yes, the G is a bit SLOW now, but eager to learn, and so does P1 and P2, dont forget how fast we developed when DR M was running the show…
The G had their oppurtunity all this while to make malaysia an Asean automotive powerhouse, this sudden change in NAP clearly shows that these are not "new" policies rather, its been kept in the dark for some time, hope its not too little too late
Proton could've made great cars if it were sold to VW, l really want that Skoda Superb
green diesel is still waymore efficient than hybrid or ev anyday! plus we can fill up with our palm oil! now there is synergy there! plus it is not new technology just need to have v good diesel engine tech!
right now this govt doesnt know which way to turn, since they are already way behind the thais and none of the principles want to court proton anymore.
25 years of proton can we be really be proud of them for making a milo tin car?! i'd keep riding my bicycle before i would buy a proton. my bicycle is more advanced!
while we may not get richer if the imported cars were not taxed like they are now. they would be much cheaper and we could afford a safe and efficient car and have money to prop up the economy with our spending not like now. i say let them float the price of petrol when they do away the crazy car taxes.
NAP, right now means they will squeeze you from both ends since car and petrol both also naik! wtf!
i think the gov incentive plan is to go into continental cars,
they may have seen the picture in ASEAN that most Jap makers are in Thailand and Indonesia now, so probably no point attracting them into motherland
Now the euro diesel, has been approve and seems that BMW is really happy with this at least with their ED,
probably the big picture you must see is, they are opening doors to european market instead of Jap market, you see the late talks on who is P1 friend was GM, then VW and some say FORD. never once they talk about Mazda, or Suzuki, or Toyota, or Nissan, cause they know, no hope, probably the minister wanna drive a malaysian made look a like passat by proton, or maybe they want to replace the satria model that has a power of golf gti, look alike model, well kind of funny i think,
who knows maybe we will be driving campro diesel made and develope by lotus, and you see no one knows where the gov is heading, cause probably we are looking at the wrong picture
just my 5 cents
idiotic gov with absurd policies
I have heard gov collapsed bcoz of worsened economy.
I have heard gov collapsed bcoz of worsened jobless rate.
I have heard gov collapsed bcoz of military suppression/human right.
I have heard gov collapsed bcoz of war..
Now it amuses me how malaysian willing to change gov over car prices.
Interesting.. lets see.. Malaysia is democratic anyway…u have ur voting right. exercise it.
BTW why r we discussing about BN, PKR, politics.. i thought PT forum is automotive forum..
We Malaysian do love politics dont we….
Gud article PT.. maybe u can write article on how new NAP is gonna affect us from ur point of view…. Pro & Cons….
The problem here is we want to fly before we can even stand properly.
We can barely make 4 wheels, and then want to be hybrid hub?
I support to give more incentives to build more bicycle lanes.
Hybrids will take a long time to be accepted, both for the technology and its unproven long term costs.
Give for example the city of Vancouver. Almost all its taxi fleets have converted to using Prius. And consumers sales of the new Insight, Civic hybrid and Prius while still far from being brisk, does have resonable numbers on the road.
Honda lanched its original 2 seat Insight all the way back in 1999. It has taken hybrids that long to take its minor foothold in the automotive market.
Can the government mandate all taxi companies in Malaysia to use Hybrids? I think not.
Our weather doesn't favour hybrids. When the engine is not running, your A/C doesn't run either. Negating the prime benefit of driving a hybrid (which is if you are not moving, you are not burning fuel). When you are in Vancouver, more than 2/3 of the year, you can survive without A/C in your car. The population here can ill afford the cost of being "green".
If the government is seriously serious about going green, they would be investing in a hydrogen fuel infrastructure (and its corresponding renewable energy resources). But we all know the government has always been short sighted that way, prefering to spend billions on "feel good" things (Putrajaya, submarines, NAP/Proton….) than on something that would pave way for a better future for our children and thier children.
As someone posted, I think somehow Proton might have convinced the government that it can produce a hybrid, otherwise, this "new" policy doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
The market for hybrids isn't in our region, and neither do we have the industries that support hybrid manufacturing. As Paul pointed out, where are the battery manufacturers, the electronics and drivetrain expertise, etc.
Besides, if I was a foreign company, why would I invest in malaysia? Malaysia doesn't have exactly the competitive advantage in labour anymore, and with the uncertainties of policy makers knowing (more like not knowing) what exactly they are doing, would I risk investing here (like the Hiace debacle with Thailand)? The answer is unfortunately a big NO, as seen with the automotive hub moving to Thailand.
There is a lot of bashers here who are either short sighted or racially biased. The new NAP mentioned both Proton and Perodua and other 'National Cars' will receive special preferences.
Logically Perodua will be in the best position to produce hybrid vehicles since they already have access to big brother Toyota technology. But obviously they are only intrested in making profits rather than genuine concern about the environment.
For those of who who have been whinning over and over again over expensive cars, there are many cheap cars from China now. So what's stopping you? Do you think the next Government from the Opposition or whoever will suddenly scrap car duties? You must be naive and live in a dreamworld.
True, cars are cheap in Japan, UK, UAE etc. But what about the cost of living, taxes, insurance, food, etc?
Some of the bashers here obviously have not travelled to other countries and appreciate what we have now. No country is perfect, but we have peace and stability, and still own and drive our own cars, regardless of the brand.
shawal.ali said,
October 30, 2009 @ 1:21 am
"I’m a Medic student btw, im lucky enough to travel to alot of countries, europe, eastern europe, Asean countries, i would just like to say that, Malaysia is not so bad, Malaysians, even with internet , are not exposed to the outside world, pls, take Airasia, its cheapest in the world, see other countries, you’ll appreciate Malaysia more and more, trust me on this. In europe , you can’t eat outside like how we do, breakfast, lunch and dinner, its expensive, you can’t be rich, cuz of tax , you’ll have your Beemer, but just 1, cuz tax and insurance is expensive, in Malaysia, The average number of car per household now is up to 3! 3!damnit.
In Malaysia, Healthcare is provided, you dont have to buy healthcare,
So pls, stop bashing proton and the G, yes, the G is a bit SLOW now, but eager to learn, and so does P1 and P2, dont forget how fast we developed when DR M was running the show…"
The point you have failed to point out is "Choice". I can choose to not need 3 cars when I can make do with 1. I choose to have 1 good car than 3 bad ones. I can choose to take a bus or subway of I choose not to drive. I can choose to go and eat out or eat at home saving a few bucks. I can choose to drive a Hybrid or choose a normal diesel car. I can choose to spend less on a car and spend more on something else. I can choose to buy a cheap Honda Civic instead of a BMW and send my kids to quality education.
Even buying a cheap locally made car (say 60k), a low to middle income earner's choises significantly evaporates. 60K, for a C segment car, there isn't much choises to begin with.
I don't understand how many times people here have to have this pointed out. When you are comparing different countries, you have to take into consideration Purchasing Parity. AirAsia may be the cheapest in the world, but how many Malaysians can afford air travel? Oh and BTW, Malaysia isn't the only country with free healthcare.
Being slow is not an excuse. In the corporate world, you'd be dead if you are slow. I agree, Malaysia is not THAT bad, but the throuble is, we could have been A LOT BETTER.
Leonardo said,
October 30, 2009 @ 10:34 am
There is a lot of bashers here who are either short sighted or racially biased. The new NAP mentioned both Proton and Perodua and other ‘National Cars’ will receive special preferences."
Frankly, it dosn't matter what racial background you are. But in case you didn't notice.
Proton is racially biased
NAP is racially biased
Not quite sure how you managed to miss that.
just 1 comment abt the NAP
the world will pass us by while we are content in toying with our own penises and pretending nobody is watching.
or should i say the NAP policy makers will continue toying with their penises and pretending the Raykat is not watching..!?
leonardo,
bashing the bashers isnt going to help.
enough about how great and lovely about our country is, we all know we are no longer better than ghana! so there!
other countries have a choice in the cars they can buy and truly value for money! and our cost of living is not getting any cheaper in spite of our expensive cars and petrol and tolls.
we just pay thru the nose for milo tins and 4 wheels.
our public transport is 4th world. and now petrol is no longer cheap which used to offset the high cost of owning a car, so who dies in the end?
unless, you are so rich to be unaffected by all this, the man in the street will suffer and the economy will suffer because they would have no money to spend on other things.
the status quo only enriches those connected to bn, impoverishes the rakyat and does nothing to advance the car industry or reallocate efficiently resources.
a change of govt may facilitate a review of these half past 6, crony driven policies. i am all for that! car prices are just one of the straws on this bn camel's back.
It does not matter who is in charge of the govt nor how/what policy is made or passed as long as it is beneficial to the rakyat and brings prosperity to the country…
this is where a strong opposition is needed to put a check on the government, the current govt knows what to do and the world knows who they are and how they react to the economy,
a good and strong opposition acts as a balancer and a checker to see whether all the policies passed in the Dewan are carried out or while its being mentioned in the reading it is argued extensively.
Mind you folks, we are still a developing country, we are no where near the mentality spectrum or the economies of scale of a developed country, a change in govt is rather detrimental to us rather then benefit from it. People should realise this rather than pushing for a new govt. Everyone wants to move forward together, at the moment the only things that is going to happen is for the opposition to get their acts together and put a total check on the system and not bicker on who should be in power or shouldn't.
Hope you folks understand with a better perspective.
Leonardo,
Do you think gov's "concern" about environmental is genuine? Or they are more genuine in boosting new car sales?
Have you traveled to other countries? If yes, which one?
And seriously, what cheap China car do you mean? Why is it a better choice then Proton? Is it cheaper then Proton?
Do you even own a car to begin with?
Have you been living under a stone?
for a developing country, our car prices match if not better those in the developed countries! go figure! once in a while, you need to give the govt of the day a good kicking at the polls to show them what we think about their policies. and if they really cared about the environment, they'd put a hell of a lot more duit into public transport like buses, rather than half baked showpiece elephants like the lrt or monorail. now if you have travelled, then you would see our public transports sucks though it maybe better than Ghana.
or should i say the Garbament will continue to allow NAP policy makers toying with their penises and pretending to know nothing!?
Gov's way of "caring" the environment is:
Plant forest = Environment Caring
So end up forest reserve clear cut to plant rubber tree "forest".
Round of applause gents and ladies.
Mazda 3 MPS said,
October 29, 2009 @ 9:43 pm
squawk said,
October 29, 2009 @ 7:52 pm
Yes, our tax system seems biased. Weren’t we told that one of the reasons car import duties were high is that it’s used to help subsidize our petrol? So now they want to float petrol price yet maintain high duties on cars?
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if you calculate it properly, the money collected through the duties would be more than sufficient to subsidize our petrol for 250 years
————————–
Even if it only subsidizes us for 100 years, it just shows you how much leakage there is in our "system".
dzulx…
u got a very good point there….
squawk said,
October 29, 2009 @ 4:51 pm
Is it time to consider migrating to Vietnam? They might overtake us too one day.
——————–
They will.
M3 said,
October 29, 2009 @ 9:50 pm
ei? what happen to the pro-proton?
—————–
After seeing that the price of their Proton Saga (new) can also buy a 2-litre Mazda Axela (a.k.a. Mazda 3), they sudah diam-diam, hide in one corner and cover their face.
yep..
national cars are expensive..
they only 'looked' cheap bcuz all other imported cars were taxed damn high..
so, if they still wanna execute the policy..
i say, bring down the price of the national cars that was supposed to be for the local ppl!
and dont forget about the spareparts price too! since after this no more chop shops, no more fake parts..all must be OEM right?
pehh..even proton (other national makes also) parts also will eat u up if sumtin bad happens to ur car..
Ian :
current saga's price is equal to mazda 3 without tax…??
damnit!!
whoever got brain sure get so pissed off man..
nak tax, tax laa..tapi jgn la cekik sampai mcm tu..
pecah jugak perut buncit tu nnti byk mkn duit haram..
sighs..
4G63tDSM:
well said..
Can hybrid car save us any money? Paying tax through our nose, what is left to be saved?
The government should stop helping proton. Helping breeds complacency! How much have proton progressed over soooooo many years?! Anyone bought proton for the brand's sake??? Because we Malaysian has no choice, not because proton is any good. Proton is way too inefficient under current management. They need a big CHANGE, or there goes our dear proton… There goes Malaysia's face. Make Malaysian proud of having a proton, or just get lost.
NAP may end up killing the Proton brand.
Think of it this way. SZ is actually doing a very good job at Proton. Only probem is and I'm going to quote what the MTEN guy said to me:
"Proton is still in infancy, so we need to protect. Other car makers have years ahead of us".
Second question that came to mind is how long is this "infancy" gonna be? Maybe cars age older than humans I guess. 20+yrs old human can get married start a family. 20+.Unfortunately, for cars, its not as simple as that. Car makers actually take a long long time to be successful. Even Korean cars started some 40 years ago making other items. This is one fair point to Proton.
But people are not patient. Technology changes fast. Same with cars. If you keep selling 15yr old perdana, then why people still buy it? Sometimes its not that the car is not good (though perdana has lots of manu defects which I can testify), but is just that people crave change. You don't expect a person to wear the same clothes 15yrs right even though he like the clothes so much.
If government really keen on Hybrid and green technology then next budget should focus more on introducing eletric or hydrogen pump centres but the volume of this kind of fuel is limited so not economically viable.
To summarise, what we actually have here is a blunder. Tun M's vision is right to have own car maker make cars, to generate own economy. Only problem is 1984 proton is a bit late considering Koreans had 20 years start. The blunder here comes when Proton which was doing well in the 1990s becames complacent like the rulling government and think that people will buy proton cars because its Made in Malaysia. Wrong. People now have very brand loyalty compared to 20 years ago. If blunder after blunder is not addressed, then the public will put off the brand for good and would not want to return to the brand. It may take some 5 years minimum for Proton to have brand value that is if they make cars people want to buy. Exora is going in the right direction. Anything less than this in future will be considered a blunder.
Seriously, diesel power is much easier to source, uncomplicated, has more alternatives to fuel (diesel converters), more practical (better torque application), comparable mileage n best, cheaper to maintain.
All d G needs to do is approve sales of better diesel standards
Rexis,
More countries than you, obviously. :)
Rexis,
Yes, a few cars.
Leonardo
I'm still curious which country you have visited that you still think so highly of Malaysia. Ghana, Zimbabwe? (I probably shouldn't insult them…..). Malaysia isn't the only country with "peace and stability". We could understand your statements more if you let us know what you are comparing to. Your comments unfortunately does not reflect a well travelled person. I do apologize for making the assumption though. But do tell.
I have lived and worked across the world, and yes, while there are higher taxes, and you do give up certain luxuries …like maids…. purchasing parity more than makes up for it. You have a higher standard of living no matter how you cut it.
As this is a topic on hybrids, since you are commenting in it, what sort of experience do you have with them?
I dare say I have driven and been driven in more hybrids than most people probably have seen in Malaysia from this forum. And being a horsepower junkie, I fail to really see the logic in them either if you are not running a taxi firm.
When I fail to see the logic when a hybrid cost basically almost the same as a normal car (after all that federal tax rebates/discounts etc), I surely don't see the logic when it cost this much more here.
Hybrids haven't taken off in Europe either. What makes the government think it would work in ASEAN?
And given the market and the tax structure of NAP, basically Paul isn't too convinced either.
since a lot of you guys are "experts" in making automotive policies…i suggest that paul should create a new post for the readers out there (especially those so called "liberal malays sipping latte in starbucks with spiked karat hair using proxies') to voice out their opinions (no bashings allowed, purely policies guys ) on how our NAP policy should be like..criticizing is easy..but when it comes to creating one, lets see whether we can create a better policy than the G's version..who knows maybe the G is listening and prepare to make amends.
Cheers..
long live imported cars
yippi33: "to voice out their opinions (no bashings allowed, purely policies guys ) on how our NAP policy should be like..criticizing is easy..but when it comes to creating one, lets see whether we can create a better policy than the G’s version..who knows maybe the G is listening and prepare to make amends."
Just to repeat mine:
Well as cronism corruption never die, why don’t govt just set a limit of cars,suv, mpv below 2000cc petrol or diesel engines are all open market prices but above that range it’s all govt to slap any price to this ‘luxury’ cars. Slap RM1million for Merc C200 but RM40K for Toyota Vios or RM25K for Proton Saga.
Car buyers therefore have the right to demand from Proton in order to stop Proton getting away with easy life anymore:
1. Proton must provide 15-years warranty with free service and repairs, no question asked.
2. Dual airbags, ABS, immobiliser alarm with GPS tracking, V-Kool security tinted glass made mandatory standard Proton car accessory.
3. Free car replacement after 1 month trial period, no question asked.
4. Proton car loans interest factored only on selling price minus duty taxes (actual ex factory price). Do not double cheat.
Deal or no deal?
N A P – Never Against Proton!
Car buyers therefore have the right to demand from Proton in order to stop Proton getting away with easy life anymore:
1. PERODUA must provide 25-years warranty with free service and repairs, no question asked.
2. Dual airbags, ABS, immobiliser alarm with GPS tracking, V-Kool security tinted glass made mandatory standard PERODUA car accessory.
3. Free car replacement after 1 month trial period, no question asked.
4. PERODUA car loans interest factored only on selling price minus duty taxes (actual ex factory price). Do not double cheat.
Deal or no deal?
N A P – Never Against PERODUA! – Received and Downgrade
DSZ shd take time to answer some of the comments here. I wonder how he feels about being so-called 'protected'…
what are his plans really…
how much time does he really need before they can compete on level ground with the other car makers…
what other things need to be in place for proton to succeed…
what is stopping Proton from succeeding…
and dont think abt the competition… just tell us what Proton needs.
old timers said,
October 31, 2009 @ 4:01 pm
————————————————
Can't find other nickname ehhh…..
mystvearn said,
October 30, 2009 @ 5:36 pm
"……………Tun M’s vision is right to have own car maker make cars, to generate own economy………………"
————————————————————
U got to be kidding me…this is mamaktahik's shit we're cleaning now… our prob now, mamaktahik's son is messing with miti.. s**thole
yippi33 said,
October 30, 2009 @ 10:30 pm
lets see whether we can create a better policy than the G’s version..who knows maybe the G is listening and prepare to make amends.
——–
I'm sure the goverment is listening given the number of cybertroopers present here.
But the question is, is the government ready to change?
Please dont be naive to think the government actually cares for the public. They just want to be kept in office so they can contiue to benefit from the toils of the public.
Jie said,
October 31, 2009 @ 7:52 pm
DSZ shd take time to answer some of the comments here. I wonder how he feels about being so-called ‘protected’…
—-
DSZ knows he's protected. And he likes it. I can't shake that smug look from his last TV interview about the NAP.
Previously, I wont mind buying a proton if they did make a good car. Now, I don't feel like I would want to buy a proton regardless after that interview.
too sad. nothing to gain..hmm
who is DSZ