Formula 1 may be full of verve, drama and action, as the just concluded Monaco GP showed, but it’s off the subject when it comes to obtaining information and technology to better one’s road cars, so says the likes of Audi.
According to reports, Ingolstadt thinks something like Le Mans is a more pertinent arena for manufacturers to get the all the necessary, as Audi’s motorsport boss, Wolfgang Ullrich, states rather clearly.
“There’s a very good reason why we are not in F1. There’s no relevance to the road,” Ullrich was quoted as telling Car mag. “Audi has always been engaged in motorsport that’s relevant to our customers such as rallying and touring cars, which brought quattro, FSI and TFSI to our road cars,” he added.
“This is why in 1999, we decided against F1. Instead, we decided to take on the greatest race in the world. We went for Le Mans,” Ullrich stated.
The reports add that Ullrich backs up those statements with some rather interesting numbers and facts, though many of these are easily attributable to how the Le Mans circuits – which are faster than those in F1 – shape up.
“Let me show you how. At Le Mans, one of our cars will cover 520 km more than an F1 car will cover in an entire season, our average speed – including pits stops – will be 32 kph higher than an F1 car and we will use 42% less fuel. You cannot argue with those figures.”
So, while F1’s technology is impressive, it’s not that effective at bringing the tech to the masses, that’s the thought of at least one manufacturer, it seems.
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I think what Audi said above is gonna upset many F1 fans…
To say there’s no relevance is wrong. There is some, though it’s not filtered to normal, everyday models that the riffraff uses. Take a look at any supercar and you’ll see a lot of F1 technology being used, like paddle shifter semi-auto gearboxes, and carbon fibre body, just to name a few.
alot of other motorsport also uses these tech. not just F1.
and how many of us can use supercars everyday..le mans also use semi auto g/boxes..
as far as i can remember, f1 technology that benefit us the most is the honda’s fuel injection system..the pgm-f1..n nowadays, most of the road car technology come from gt racing/le mans..even the latest diesel engine also derive from le mans tech..
yet f1 is far more exciting though..
You obviously have not watched Le Mans to deem F! as being far more exciting.
You should be able to watch the 24hrs of Le Mans on 11 June live on Astro’s Eurosport channel. Battle of the titans once again. New Peugeot 908 vs new Audi R18
What for? We already know that Audi will lose and lose badly.
@Gemder. Watch Audi lose badly? I would suggest you check Wikipedia and see how many times they lost since 2000. Come back and tell us once you’ve done that.
ooo must be a sore peugeot fan loser. Feel sorry that in the 4 years of le mans between peugeot and audi, peugeot won only once. Last year they lost to audi spectacularly badly as in audi 1,2 & 3 peugeot retired,retired & retired! Hope you’re not a betting man
Who want to watch same F1 dropout drivers for 24hrs, you have nothing better to do kah?
why would you want to do that? there are 3 drivers per car anyway. Le mans is about the machine, the pit stops, the clever strategy, the spectacular track incidents and crashes.
Le Mans is about machinery, team work. Not a driver’s selfish pursuit for glamour and glory.
Try to keep up and understand what’s what.
that’s the exact same reason why Potong and PeroTua not participate in F1 !!
but proton is in F1, thru lotus, and thats why they’re in rallying also.
Couldn’t agree more, Le Mans bring fuel efficency, engine reliability, brake and tyre wear to the front end, The more you pit to refuel, change tyres brakes and every other worn parts, it means back to the drawing board.
Very true what Audi says but but….. F1 is more exciting!!!
aren’t you a big peugeot supporter?
Ullrich, come on… we know that’s just your excuse from taking F-1 challenge. Be a man! Do the right thing!
Ya you are right, Ullrich is just Kiasu.
i TOTALLY agree with what audi have said.. true, i used to be long time F1 fan, but due to many irrelevance and too much drama (dun ask me to list down the details), i quit enjoying it.
F1 nowadays have become a tool of publicity, a marketing arena, and to breed a celebrity-like racers.
think about it, most of the technology on road cars nowadays are not from F1, but from other motorsports. F1 is a follower nowadays, eg the 1.6 turbocharged engine in 2013.
quoting anthony’s: “while F1?s technology is impressive, it’s not that effective at bringing the tech to the masses..”
yeah, F1 fags can thumbs me down now. but remember, i used to be a fan too..
Audi says this because they are not in F1 – KERS are used in road cars, a direct consequence of Formula One, so their claim isn’t precise
You got it wrong buddy!!!! So wrong… Actually kinetic energy recovery system (KERS) are used in road cars first before they are used in Formula 1. Kinetic energy is recovered by electric motor in Honda Insight hybrid car in 1999 and the motor assist the engine in accelerating the car. When did Formula 1 start to use KERS? A decade later in 2009… Perhaps in this case, its the road car technology that trickled down into Formula 1.
Sorry mate. KERS, its concept as used in F1 is not in any road car unless the car is a hybrid in which case the tech was derived from automakers themselves. Closest is probably the Porsche 911 hybrid race car which I’m not clear is sold in the market. Yes, that car does use KERS tech concept borrowed from Williams ‘flybrid’ system
That’s the very reason why BMW, Toyota , Honda and most recent Renault
pulled out of F1. The money saved 250 mil euro a year was channeled to producing
better built cars and engines ie Efficient Dynamics and Hybrid Tech.
Audi , tell that to Proton !!
Porsche left F1 decades ago while Ferrari still stuck in F1 tussle with Bernie E…
I dont want to drive a 1.6 litre 5oo hp car that can only run for 2000km,i think audi is on the right track to their R & D to have entered the Le Mans.What I can say is endurance vs excitement = entertaiment.We hope proton will follow suit.
Nowadays in F1 a lot of money is spent on solving problems that are regulatory. The thing is, such issues will not crop up in the real world in the first place because there are no such rules and regulations in the real world. For an example, millions are spent by each team to develop the F-duct last year. That issue is void this year with the implementation of the movable rear wing (DRS). In the real world, that is how the issue is solved as well, by having a retractable spoiler (think lamborghini gallardo, bugatti veyron etc).
perhaps if we widen the net a bit, then the contributions will be more apparent.
what about fuels, lubricants, advanced materials, alloys, engine management systems, driver safety, traction control, simulation systems, etc, etc..
i suspect it will be difficult to say ‘yeah, this xxx is a direct development from f1 or le mans’….they are all inter-related and build on each other.
f1 and le mans pose unique challenges i am sure, but to say that le mans is somehow better in bringing home the technology is stretching it herr ulrich.
why not race the r8 against the mac mp4 and 458 italia?
indy500 contributed more, go google, u’ll be surprised from 4 wheel disk brake to front wheel drive are all consequences from indy500.
how many are driving ferrari which is benefited from F1?
kinda make sense all these comments actually…hmm.
F1 is more about glamour, celebration, media, PR, and engineering feats which are not really automotive-based or automotive-applicable. F1 is actually a flying craft, more aerospace/aeronautics rather than automotive. Automotive is mostly about bitching politics. So, F1 should be dropped from paultan then! =)) how bout that?
i agree! i am totally sick of “i sue u~” and then “i sue u back~”
“tyres are purposely engineered to degrade faster give more exciting race”?? bullsh1t…
in le mans u don’t have to do that. i watch last year’s le mans, much much much more exciting. especially when the peugeot starts to break down one by one! :D
A race that is “relevant to road cars” somehow conjures up an image where you race thru the morning rush hour, speed over road bumps & potholes without damaging your spine, managing to get the fastest lane at tolls, pit stops to drop/pickup kids at school/kindergarten & buy lunch at McD’s drive thru. The winner is the first who managed to get parking spot @ 1Utama/MidValley/Sogo during the lunch hours. :P
Technologies that might come out of this race;
1. Free Parking Spot detector (or automatic out-going shopper stalking pilot).
2. Toll lane speed calculator (adjusted to include the TnG & SmartTag lanes).
3. Drive-thru food easy-arrange compartment.
4. Road-bump, potholes & uneven road automatically adjusted suspension (or a road-bump destroyer should be awesome as well)
That’s quite funny!
i shall invest in these Eazy technologies!
Dr Ullrich is right.
I am a follower of both Le Mans and F1 for over 20 years and Le Mans is more relevant to road cars compared to F1, easily by a factor of 10!
And it’s not so much because LM has become ‘more’ relevant. They have in fact remained the same in their ethos all this decades, since 1923. LM is older than F1. It is actually a case of f1 becoming more and more irrelevant to real world unfortunately.
Decades ago there was indeed a lot of relevance in F1 to tech transfer to road cars. Such is not the case now. There is actually NONE!. Closest is KERS and it is NOT a tech exclusive to sport of F1. ACO (LM Promoters) were encouraging energy recovery system options BEFORE F1 decided they needed KERS to boost the show. F1 was actually very late to respond to green initiatives. This on top of the fact they were already off tangent to road car technology since I think the 90s
I would also add pit garage operation is way more challenging, more impressive than F1. Since cars can be fixed in the garage and continue to be raced in the event of an accident, turn around time is mighty impressive. At one time Audi could change the entire rear end of their racer in only 3.5mins. Organisers later banned whole gearbox swapping to stop Audi’s advantage but they still can fully swap rear ends in something like 8 mins or so I believe.
Also for tyre changes only 2 mechs can do that in Le mans. In F1 you got 3 mechs per corner just waiting for the car to arrive. So simple and can still screw up sometimes. Even the defunct A1GP had more challenging and exciting tyre changes.
See this cool video for a peek at Audi’s superb garage team and history of Le Mans itself http://tinyurl.com/3lz7hjp
KERS is not from Formula 1 or from any racing… It’s a parallel hybrid electric system that use the electric motor in regenerative braking mode to recover kinetic energy by storing in the form of electrical energy. When you apply KERS during acceleration, the electrical energy is returned back to the electric motor to provide additional boost of tractive power to the wheels. Other than that, I totally agree with you that Formula 1 evolution is really on a tangential path compared to road cars.
I am waiting for the day to come when series hybrid vehicle win in Le Mans… If gas turbine can be small enough and yet as efficient as the larger version with 60% efficiency. Or perhaps a breakthrough in direct methanol fuel cell. This will still need a large ultracapacitor to absorb braking energy and to release them during acceleration.
cool. though I did not say that KERS was born from racing
Its possible perhaps to think outside the box to come up with a winning way in Le Mans. Who would’ve though a diesel engine car can win at Le Mans?
The rules set by the ACO were actually a little biased towards the diesels in the beginning. This was to entice the manufacturers to commit to this new area. ACO always want to see relevant technologies relevant to road car tested and raced at Le Mans and diesels account for easily half the euro car market.
However since the diesels were so dominant the ACO introduced equivalency measures every year to keep the diesels and petrols on par and as fair as possible. They have just announced less restriction on the petrols so that the best petrol can run within 2% performance of the quickest diesel. Thus its close to fair. group c le mans racing in the 80s was so exciting. X amount of fuel, figure out how to last 24hrs. Every year they reduced the fuel amount and it became the most exciting era in le mans. better fuel consumption technology was the goal but it produced also the most powerful race cars ever. Remember rothmans Porsche 956 and 962. Speeds also began to approach 400kmh. Something not seen in f1.
For me one of the most exciting things about le mans is its unpredictability and that the underdog can win as what happened with the audi r10. The peugeot 908 were much quicker than the r10. It was the tortoise against the hare. Audi was the tortoise and they pull out all stops did very clever strategies made the drivers do 4 hrs stints each, focused everything on efficiency and eventually beat the faster peugeot . It takes a lot of grit to just finish and with luck it is not impossible to beat the faster cars. All about teamwork. The spirit of le mans which is missing in f1
Audi manufacture cars aimed at hairdressers and old men, they don’t have the technical excellence to compete in F1, and prefer to be a big fish in the tiny Le Mans Pond.
What a joke, F1 is for a man, Audi is for hairdressers and pretenders. Put an F1 car race site by site with the Le Mans car, and you will know what I mean.
Put a Le Mans LMP next to an F1 car and the former will dwarf the tiny F1 car. Remove their bodywork and both look similar and equally sophisticated. Race them side by side at Le Mans and the F1 car will retire well under 4 hours not to mention be outpaced by the LMP because F1 car guzzles fuel and have more aero drag.
F1 is for boy band loving pretty boys while Le Mans is for real men!
May be you are right, that is why most of Le Mans drivers are Ah Pek compare to F1 driver. Some of them are even a dropout from F1, what a joke this Audi Ullrich have made, you think we are blind?
no I don’t think you are blind. I think you are just IGNORANT. You don’t understand le mans at all and the best you can do is to equate it f1 which is mostly about driver glory. News flash – le mans is about machinery not selfish driver glory. Not possible in le mans because you need 3 drivers per car to do the whole 24hrs anyway. Its all about teamwork mate!
Audi is awesome.
Correct, Audi is awesome for hairdressers.
Look at your nickname first before calling Audi a car for hairdressers. Oh, better yet, check out this link!
http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/mini-stuff/8234-mini-one-ultimate-hairdressers-car.html
Didn’t u guys saw Petronas advert? A young girl uses an F1 mirror to put on her make up and the message says something like ‘who says F1 didn’t share technology with road car’. That was funny and for those who still believe F1 tech will transfer to road car, get the message from Petronas? F1 cars are designed to win races and need rebuilding after every race. There are nothing to learn from F1 for road car development sake.
they just sooooooo desperate to promote their brand… period.
Relevance? Ulrich you must be kidding me. Can you look at your LMP? It does not look like any car. It doesn’t drive like any car. What are you doing Ulrich? Sucking up to the Americans, that’s what you’re doing. Yeah it will filter down to an Audi sometime. But it won’t be on a Polo would it? Neither F1, LM or even WTCC has any relevance to real world driving. Its just propping up brands. Increasing value adders. Branding. If you don’t want to just STFU. Instead of dissing others. I won’t be buying an Audi coz it didn’t win at F1. I won’t be buying it coz I can’t afford it. So what?! Its just a sport. Peeps may want to flash images in front of me to condition my brain to accept to those labels but its my freaking choice. I’m in touch with reality. Too bad.
err.. “won’t be in a Polo”? Is that an Audi or a VW:)
Having said that are you sure you can’t buy a Polo with either FSI, TFSI OR TDI engine? All 3 engine tech were race proved at le mans first before reaching showrooms!
Why don’t you do a bit of research before typing
Audi slogan: When you can not compete, you dissing others.
And that’s not including the carbon footprint of the heavyweight F1 circus criss crossing the globe….
F1 relevant for roadcar?…have u seen any cars on the road that look like an F1? F1 is just an airplane that happen to have downforce instead of going up…he3…totally irrelevant
I only know there are some super cars which are designed with F1 tech……. Not old uncle le man tech…… “we have the f1 inspirated gear box” or ” our car can run for 24 hours” sounds cooler? Wake up you Audi fan boys.
Sorry matey.. you have been fooled by the brilliant F1 PR machinery. Very easy for those gullible and ignorant fans.
There are next to NO ‘F1 inspirated tech’ in super cars these days! NONE, NADA, ZILCH, TELUR!
Here are some clues. Pick a hot modern super car. Lets say.. yes.. the Bugatti Veyron! . is it using an ‘F1 inspirated’ gearbox? It’s using a Dual Clutch gearbox type first made popular by VOLKSWAGEN in the Golf GTi.
F1 is still using the same double shaft manual gearbox layout but with automated selectors. You can experience this same tech by buying a Proton Savvy AMT !
Even Ferrari, with it’s F1 pedigree is using dual clutch boxes in their latest models. they have abandoned so called F1 style AMT boxes.
if there is any specific ‘F1 inspirated’ tech that you can think off please list them and I’ll tell you if it’s ‘F1 inspirated’ or not.
You only know what you know. It’s good to know what you don’t know
bernie: hey, i want to make F1 much more exciting lah! i know, let’s make the tyres degrade faster so there can be more pitstops!
bridgestone: hell no! we continuously wanna develop tyre that can last longer for our road consumers!
bernie: i see.. now scram u from F1. shoh shoh~
bridgestone: okay. goodluck tyrant!
pirelli: no worry mr. B, we’ll do that kind of tyre for u.
See this video interviews of Audi testing the R18 in Sebring in March. Will give you insight on what Ullrich is on about and the close link between road cars and Le Mans regs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BopPEONSECY