Electric vehicles (EVs) is the auto industry buzzword these days, pushed by governments and legislation worried about climate change. Cities, countries and carmakers have all pledged to discontinue the internal combustion engine that has served us for well over a century. Locally, in the recently tabled Budget 2022, Malaysia announced a waiver of tax and duties for imported EVs.
ICE is dirty, EV is clean, so the theory goes. No argument there, if one solely looks at tailpipe emissions – EVs don’t even have tailpipes because there’s no combustion and the subsequent release of gases going on, unlike the burning of petrol and diesel to move pistons.
However, not many are questioning the source of electricity powering the EVs. If you’re an EV proponent because of the right reasons – the environment, and not because it’s the in thing (like a cool toy) or because premium EVs boast high performance and prestige – surely the question of how clean is your electric source matters, no?
The burning of coal to generate electricity is universally accepted as a dirty method, and it was a major point of contention at the recent COP26 summit, where world leaders trashed out climate deal. According to a Thomson Reuters report, in the US, around 30% of electricity is generated by coal, and in China, it’s double that. Globally, roughly 37% of the world’s electricity comes from coal-fired plants. So, while EVs release no emissions at the tailpipe level, are they truly good for the planet as things stand?
Perodua president and CEO Datuk Zainal Abidin Ahmad was posed that question at the recent 2022 Myvi facelift media preview, and he pointed to the well-to-wheel approach in looking at carbon neutrality. Well stands for oil well in an ICE vehicle, which you can substitute with electricity source for EVs, and well-to-wheel means looking at emissions from the whole chain, and not just at the car’s tailpipe.
“I always say from well to wheel. The first thing that we need to do is we have to make sure that we achieve carbon neutral not in the product – which is the EV – but the production process, which is our factory, the production of energy generation,” he said, adding the production process to the conversation.
The government is nudging the local auto industry towards electric, as shown by the tax-free EV move, but Zainal is calling for a wider approach. “We’ve done our study. Although it’s good that the government announced the incentives to entice the market for EVs, based on the current scenario of the Malaysian automotive industry, I think the takers will be less. But we’re telling the government, let’s not look (solely at) EVs as the way forward for the automotive industry.
“Based on our calculation, EV and hybrid – because we’re depending on burning of coal for 50% energy source – HEV (hybrid) is still the best for Malaysia if you’re talking about being environmentally friendly,” he declared, before emphasising on carbon neutrality again.
“I believe what the government is saying (with this tax-free EV move) is let’s get the economy ball rolling, but at the same time the government would like to push a carbon neutral policy – as mentioned by the prime minister, Malaysia is very much committed to achieve carbon neutrality by 2050, and we’re working together with the government, moving towards the guidelines given by them.
“We’ve established our own carbon neutral organisation, so called, to ensure that whatever we do – EV, hybrid, total production, source of energy – we’ll never forget bout carbon neutral,” the P2 chief said.
Hybrids over full electric cars, for now, sounds very much like the view of Toyota, which is of course the owner of Daihatsu, Perodua’s long-time partner. In September, Toyota president Akio Toyoda – in his capacity as Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association (JAMA) chairman – urged Japan to not follow Europe’s EV model blindly.
“In pursuing carbon neutrality, carbon is our enemy, not the internal combustion engine. To reduce carbon, I believe there should be practical and sustainable solutions that fit the circumstances of each country and region. What we need to do over the next several years is to leverage the technological advantages that we have built up and take immediate steps to maximise CO2 reductions using the electrified vehicles we have now.
“The Japanese government has determined various targets, likely with the upcoming COP26 in mind, but first of all it is just targets that they show us, and second of all, the targets seem to be based on how policies are discussed in Europe, not on the particular situation in Japan. That is why I would like to ask for your understanding that the paths to carbon neutrality differ in each country,” Toyoda said.
These views are consistent with Toyota’s keep all powertrain options open approach, as opposed to the many carmakers who are now betting the whole house on EVs, so to speak. The hybrid pioneer is a strong believer of hydrogen fuel cell as the future of cars, and is currently experimenting with hydrogen engines – that’s ICE powered by hydrogen. It had a slow start with BEVs, but the bZ4X crossover – co-developed with Subaru – is set to hit showrooms in mid-2022. Premium brand Lexus is also working on a dedicated EV model, due next year.
Malaysian arm UMW Toyota Motor (UMWT), which will soon launch the Corolla Cross Hybrid, calls hybrids a “realistic bridge” towards electrification.
“We are absolutely positive that the HEV is the most accessible and realistic choice for Malaysian customers in terms of practicality and infrastructure, with an enormous potential in Malaysia. It is a realistic bridge towards vehicle electrification while efforts are still being undertaken to help realise enablers for BEV, such as cost reduction, energy mix improvement and infrastructure development,” UMWT deputy chairman Akio Takeyama said.
At the same event, Perodua boss Zainal also revealed that the Rawang carmaker is current conducting a market study for hybrid vehicles in Malaysia, admitting that the Daihatsu Rocky e-Smart Hybrid that was recently spotted testing in downtown KL – even before it was launched in Japan – is theirs. This means that there’s a good chance for an upcoming Ativa Hybrid, as the Rocky is the P2 SUV’s twin.
It’s clear that Perodua and Toyota are on the same page in this “go all in on EVs” debate. Their stand is that EVs are not yet viable now, given the less-than-clean power generation situation in most countries (biomass, water, wind and solar are good; coal is not). That’s before taking into account the environmental impact of mining materials such as nickel and cobalt, needed to make EV batteries. Add them all up and it could account for a larger share of total greenhouse gas emissions than those from a car’s tailpipes, which EV proponents focus on.
Toyota and Perodua say that hybrids is the answer for the present. The points are convincing, but this is still very much a minority, if not lone, voice among carmakers – most have rushed headlong into the electric wave.
So, if you zoom out, look at the big well-to-wheel picture and find that EVs aren’t as clean as many think, is ICE still the environment villain that it’s painted out to be? By the way, in Peninsular Malaysia, 65.84% of electricity was generated by coal last year, followed by gas at 29.67%, hydro (3.78%) and solar (0.7%).
What’s your thoughts on this matter? For further reading, click on these links for the POV of Akio Toyoda, Toyota and UMW Toyota Motor.
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Sounds like the excuse of an automaker that’s lagging behind competitors and don’t want to embrace electrification.
Yes, the source of electricity matters but dismantling the petrol infrastructure matters more. Even if it’s coal, several of those is better than hundreds of thousands ICE since you can decommission the coal plants faster and replace with less environmentally taxing power generation methods.
HEVs are prolonging the petroleum infrastructure that should be dismantled quicker as we adopt more EVs and build out the infrastructure for those. It’s a half-measure that only keeps big oil happy. And I’m sure Perodua and Toyota are happy to sell HEVs that have both an ICE engine requiring maintenance and need expensive batteries that can only be replaced by the OEM. An EV is much simpler to make and has less maintenance, even if the battery is expensive. I’m sure Perodua has done their calculation showing the drop in maintenance revenue and propping up HEV is their countermeasure for that.
But EV distance travel is shorter than hybrid. Taking longer time to charge than hybrid electric vehicles
Runaway climate change is at our doorstep. It requires a change in consumer habits and expectations. We hv enjoyed the quality of life and growth at the expense of the environment. Perhaps it is pay back time.
Have to believe what many brands have mentioned because there are lacking of charging infrastructure. Cannot just jumped to ev. Need more time to transition to ev.
Majority brands like bmw, nissan, toyota, honda, volkswagen are making good decision for not selling EV in immediate time
EV has disadvantages and gets chemical sources for battery
For your information , you can check
https://elbilstatistikk.no/
This is the daily registration of EV cars in Norway, which more than 50% of new cars sold are EV, and Tesla is not the only cars purchased. There merc, kia hyundai and volkswagen.
It’s a very interesting argument, but it would require a huge government commitment to promote the development of EV infrastructure and dramatically reduce coal in electricity generation. Is that realistic given all the long-term contracts for coal-fired power purchases given out to cronies? And the bumiputra lobby that owns the petrol stations? There seem to be too many vested interests for radical change.
In that environment, the HEV might be the best bet, a way to slowly build local capacity in this area and we can pray and hope that the next round of new power plants are not coal fired. It’s not like the Malaysian public cares about the environment: we’ve seen climate protests around the world, but nothing here, so it’s not going to be a political priority.
Agreed
Totally agree. The arguments for HEV is rather thin if not lame.
@Excuses, are you willing to drop your quality of life if we jump straight to EV without going through HEV while waiting for the infrastructure and technology to mature? The world is simply not ready for full scale EV deployment.
1. Travel distance decreased as battery aged. By that time, a new battery replacement probably worth more than the car.
2. Charging up to full will take hours, imagine the queue at charging station when everyone drive an EV. One petrol pump can served 5-10 cars per hour, zero to full tank, and there are at least 6 pumps per petrol station. Even without counting the wait time, the number of charging points will be needed to serve the same amount of car’s that can be processed by one petrol station will be insane. On minimal, 6 pumps x 5 cars x 2 hours (each car charging time) = 60 charging ports
3. Suddenly there is a shortage of electricity since everyone EV need to charge up. Now we will have electric ration. Fossil fuel burning power station will be built since all other options is either not reliable (Solar, wind, tidal) or very very expensive, take decade to build and have serious environmental impact (Nuclear, hydroelectric). Electricity cost suddenly become triple
5. With HEV, if car run out of petrol anywhere, anyone can come rescue with “petrol in Coke bottle”. EV means tow truck to nearest charging station, queue up, push the car when the queue moving forward one car at a time.
This EV hype is all started by Tesla. Do you guys ever wonder why Tesla’s share price just kept going up in spite of loosing billions of dollars, until recently? Because it has back door financial support from US gov, both financial support for Tesla’s private financing, as well as support for the share price by way of large buying from gov backed funds to make it look like Tesla will be the next Apple. Why would US gov do that? Simple lah. The transition of combustion to EV is a good way for US to dominate the car market which has long been dominated by the japs. This is a game changer for the US. So don’t get sucked in by all the hype. Listen to the japs, they are the car gurus who can make reliable and affordable cars. F the americans. Never let the americans dominate the car market. Think of Windows11 and those f*cking updates.
After we lost out to Thailand, now the rest of our neighbours will pass us soon too. Perodua still sleeping dreaming of hybrid when everyone else have moved onto EV.
And hybrid has longer distance than EV
Honda e is electric car but only 220km range
Lucid air got 1000km range…what say you???
Don’t believe in Toyota propaganda. The Japa are behind in EV and fight back by spouting nonsense
EV is not fully ready yet. Even, distance travel have shorter distance.
You’re right and Perodua is right also. If discontinuing selling hybrid, plug in hybrid and ice cars now, surely will get more pain. Not only distance travel have shorter distance than hybrid, but also will causes issues on circuit breaker trip if driving on the flash floods, not enough charging station which won’t able reach to another place on time.
Buy EV now, you will regret than buying hybrid. This is why still recommending to buy hybrid or phev than electric
Do you believe Tesla electrification propaganda with poor reliability issues?
Perodua following their master Toyota trying hard to spread fake news.
end of the day is still profit & growth matters.
it just makes life harder for engineers to achieve the requirements as the real issue lies in the automotive industry itself.
isn’t it time to defocus personal car ownership?
In Malaysia , EVs are basically run on Coal (41.06%)
They can talk high about hybrid until the myvi cows comes home but cakap kosong only nothing to back up his big talk. Before he talks, P2 CEO must first show that HEV really is better thru his cars laaaaa!!! All we have is a rehash dinosaur ICE engine, for all his big talk P2 has zero HEV. They have been talking & promising hybrid since 2003 and still talking & promising only.
Dei! Pirraahhh laaaa!!!! Penipu harapan saja!
https://paultan.org/2013/12/26/proton-come-hybrid-car-end-2014-bring-ev-market-end-2015/
Superseded by this
https://paultan.org/2015/09/10/proton-iriz-ev-300-km-electric-car-on-display-at-igem/
Excerpt: “Malaysia Automotive Institute (MAI) CEO Madani Sahari has said that Malaysia will produce not one, but two electric vehicles by 2017 – with one of them likely to come from Proton”
Read: MAI CEO said that, not Proton CEO.
OTOH Perodua CEO promised hybrid in 2003 and it was not refuted until today so their broken promises stands.
I’m actually disappointed with P1 bcoz they promised by a certain year but when that year arrived, it didn’t materialise. And it happened more than once. Obviously abang petroliam nasional must have intervened at putrajaya.
Copy paste: “Read: MAI CEO said that, not Proton CEO.”
MAI (under MITI) & Proton (GLC) both answer to Putrajaya.
Your brother & you share same surname, but does he speak for you? Think.
@Celup King aka Copy Paste aka Bro – You & your brother still have to answer to the same ‘boss’, your father.
GG 50% of our electricity is generated by coal plants. So much for saving the planet. BEVs in Malaysia are still killing the planet if this continues.
And let’s not forget about the materials used to make the batteries and how to dispose them when their time is up.
No worries. According to you, only elites will afford for EV in the form of Taycan after all.
Many says otherwise. Hybrid is the better option to reduce the need to have many charging facilities and not waiting too long to charge electric car
The future here is flying cars….
Nissan BEV1.2L,
Perodua BEV1.2L,
Honda 1.5Hybrids,
Toyota 1.8Hybrids.
Hybrids as I understand it, if locally assembled, are also exempted from all kinds of taxes and duties.
Definitely, those developed countries have been brainwashing developing countries that battery electric vehicles are the future, but they have never thought about the transition and adaptation process. There are many things involved, including safety, environment, cost, regulations, laws, effectiveness, etc.
We must have a good management system to regulate this transition process. Our country can’t even popularize hybrid cars, so let’s not think about battery electric cars.
Finally someone commented using their brain. Malaysia is not ready for FULL EV yet. Purchasing power, infras, people perception as well as the government itself still do not convince with BEV. We should start from affordable Hybrids to build the confidence and delay time until the infra is ready. Good call by Perodua !
thank you Toyota for remaking Hindenburg hydrogen powered transport for the masses similar to Lakehust New Jersey event
The Hindenburg airship only used hydrogen to create buoyancy so that it could float in the atmosphere. For propulsion, it used diesel powered engines. So it was not a hydrogen powered transport. Who told you that? Led Zeppelin? Research first before simply making comments.
How did Hindenburg got burned? Is it from the diesel? No. Research first before simply making comments.
Starlink user described the Hindenburg airship as a hydrogen powered transport but Celup King wrote that the Hindenburg was powered by diesel engines. Yes, it was the combustion of hydrogen gas that started the fire but hydrogen was never used as fuel on the Hindenburg in the first place because it was only used to make the airship lighter than air so it can float.
ROTFL retard engineers put internal combustion engine next to a giant hydrogen balloon
They must have been the same ones who ran the hot exhaust pipe next to the fuel tank underneath the back of your typical mass produced car.
Hybrid is a good short to medium term solution to quickly reduce carbon emissions. But don’t fool yourself that it is anywhere near carbon neutral. How can it be carbon neutral when it is still burning fossil fuel and emitting it into the air without any carbon capture? The most proper measurements of vehicle environmental impact is total lifecycle emissions from production to end of life. By mostly research, EV is overall better than ICE even in countries with reasonably high dependency on fossil fuel in electricity generation. Also when people keep talking about environmental impact of nickel and cobalt mining, people seems to conveniently forgot about all the environment impact of fossil fuels mining? An EV only need a few dozen kg of lithium, nickel and cobalt while an ICE or hybrid will burn several dozen tonnes of petrol over the lifetime.
EV has shorter distance travel than hybrid. Taking long time to charge than HEV
Watch the narrative change when Perodua has a pure EV offering
I prefer the Hydrogen fuelled ICE approach. It is much more practical.
Dia defend hybrid sbb dorang tak bev.cuba kalau dorang ada model bev,mesti ckp bev bagus.masih ingat lagi dia pernah ckp hybrid tak bagus sebab kos kepada pengguna tinggi.mulut dia ni…hmmm
Actually it is wise move for many brands for not selling EV immediately, not like those 6 brands like JLR
The is solution to source clean energy from solar microgrid which can generate electricity independent from the grid. Especially the EV charging in outdoor like highway and petrol stations. The EV owner also can purchase Renewable energy certificates during charging at home which assure the electricity consuming is clean energy. Furthermore, Malaysia gov has committed in the COP26 to phase out coal generations by not further allowing new coal power plants. All this transitions work toward the carbon neutral with low carbon mobility blueprint 2021 – 2030
Sound similar to the father, T.
Better than tesla electrification propaganda
https://paultan.org/2008/08/03/lotus-eve-hybrid-at-the-proton-technology-week/
https://paultan.org/2009/03/27/detroit-electric-to-sign-rm-12-billion-agreement-with-proton-for-electric-car-development/
https://paultan.org/2009/03/30/detroit-electric-to-sell-electric-persona-and-gen2/
https://paultan.org/2014/10/14/proton-ev-2017-under-rm100k/
The true measure of a sustainable city is not whether it uses electric cars or not, but how clean and how efficient are its public transport, and how accessible it is to the underprivileged, including the old and disabled.
At the core of the UNDP’s solution for low carbon cities is not electric cars, which still rely on fossil fuel power plants, but public transport. Regardless of powertrain type, public transport is much greener than BEVs.
This is the big picture; but as a developing country, we still emit less CO2 per capita vs developed countries. Aided by low fuel prices, there is very little drive to switch to EV (PHEV/BEV/HEV) here.
Wise move from perodua for not selling EV immediately
Even if the electricity is fossil fuel generated its still more efficient than ice engine because of powerplants are incredibly efficient. Plus you can always install solar panels at home with batteries to recharge your car. You cant dig for oil in your backyard….
Pls bear in mind the source of electric energy is not solely from coal fired plant.Nowaday nuclear ,solar,wind,water dammed energy becoming more popular since its more cost effective rather than production cost of charcoal is still typical and consevative concept .Maybe one day water can be 1 of the source or energy since its H2O formulation.
Perodua ceo is not cempetent and understand about the future automotive aspiration.he just want to tell the people to buy only perodua car .perodua only know how to copy and paste the car design and copy other car manufacturer marketing strategy in order to sell their car.
Here is why this Perodua simp is wrong and need to stop sharing his refutable opinion.
To have petrol, you need to fracking. It is creating disasters to environment way more compared to the source obtain to built a battery and power plan.
Why can’t you guys embrace the hydro power apart of coal energy? I thought Perodua has ishikawa method to identify root cause of the issue? Then go solve it to the root cause if coal is bad. Duh..
And in principle, this Perodua simp admit that running on petrol is bad. So why are you mixing the both of energy source (petrol and electricity) which is hybrid and saying it is bad than EV? This guy need to make up his mind. EV is the way forward since we manage to eliminate the petrol usage.
So why this Perodua simp cant admit EV is better? He is looking in sales perspective. We know that owning EV as a start is expensive. Very expensive. Not because of the infra readiness or what so ever. Everyone need to understand that to own EV vehicle biggest challenge is the skyrocket price.
Here how it links. Perodua target segment is not luxury and high-end market user. Opt to EV, will kill Perodua potential buyer. EV is a threat to Perodua because their target market on cheap and affordable car are created for youngster, new graduates and B40.
In addition, by having EV, it cost us less maintenance in a long run and this is another threat to Perodua sales where they can’t generate more money from selling the replacement components.
Do you think Perodua can survive with EV? They can’t. They can’t sell EV Myvi at the price of 40k. It just ruin their business.
Do you think Perodua don’t have the technology to develop EV? Yes they have actually based on the R&D from Daihatsu and the parents company Toyota. Just copy paste and modify a bit as usual la typical Perodua.
So it is obvious, Perodua through this simp only think about profit on their market segment rather than environment.
So please, stop treating Malaysian like how politician treating us and thinking we are stupid based on the silly opinion. Jeez..
The problem of Malaysian electricity generation is that 66% of it from coal and by your reckon it is the the responsibility of Perodua to solve that problem?
What kind of logical thinking do you have?
I’d like to add more. To make ICE components are not good to environment too. All the stamping, iron casting, metal formation use a lot of energy to form it. So eliminate this process and rely only on battery please.
Let’s think about it, after 20 years hybrid was introduced in Malaysia, Perodua left behind and only start to embrace hybrid now. Because the price is getting cheaper. Not because of environment. 20 years apart and suddenly Perodua talks about hybrid.
Same will goes to EV. I foresee, Perodua will only embrace it for next 20 years because the technology will be cheaper. They can sell it to their market segment with the right price. And this CEO can eat his own word bout saying EV is bad for environment. This isn’t about environment at all for Perodua. It’s all about their selling price.
If Perodua really care about the environment, do it now and not in next 20 years!
” All the stamping, iron casting, metal formation use a lot of energy to form it ”
Wow, lots of energy needed eh Einstein?
So no energy needed to manufacture electric motors?
No energy needed to manufacture batteries?
Mining of lithium for the batteries has significant environmental impact of the mining area. Currently energy needed to recycle lithium batteries is more expensive than mining it, making most of the lithium batteries just thrown away in landfills. Recycling metal from ICE components is easy.
How stupid we are really reflects on the fact that majority buys their cars anyways. So we buy their point hook line & stinker no matter what.
More producing batteries, get problem to our world
Better than tesla electrification propaganda
Malaysia is an oil and gas country, thus will take a while to have affordable EVs for consumer. Unless TNB use petrol to generate electricity.
Hybrid will add weights on vehicle (hence performance of vehicle will compromise if compare to petrol version of same model) and not to mention maintenance. Battery does fail, car manufacturers only perform warranty replacement if battery failed to a certain percentage. Basically all details are not even marketed to consumer, most of them only market the word “HYBRID”.
Hydrogen fuel Internal Combustion Engine approach seems to be another alternative, however there is not much infrastructure to support this program.
WLTP 28km/L x 36liter
This is WLTP rated 1008km EV drive, charging @ 28km/L.
Agreed!
Using EV vehicle make cause issues when driving on flash flood and the circuit breakers will trip
Hahaha. Go see YT of ev drive thru water
You may check other websites, they also said EV vehicles not recommended to drive through floods causes more dangerous
Not everyone interested in EV care about absolute carbon neutrality. EV is about simplicity of maintenances or lack there of. HEV on the other hand are more complex than normal ICE only car. So go figure.
EV is even more complex than hybrid, hydrogen and ICE. That’s why most of the brands are not ready to adopt for fully electrified vehicles.
EV drivetrain must include the powerbank.
It’s a headache over long term.
Ultimately, BEV huge powerbank replacing is painful to the owner and 2nd hand buyer.