Honda patents 11-speed gearbox with three clutches

Honda DCT

The adage of less being more doesn’t seem to apply to gearboxes these days, with most production cars having automatic gearboxes with between five to eight speeds. Honda seems to think that more is more though, with a design for an 11-speed ‘box being filed with the Japan Patent Office.

That isn’t the half of it, as this overachieving transmission will also carry not one, not two, but three clutches. The intent of this design is obviously better fuel economy and quicker, seamless shifts, but while we can figure Honda’s dual-clutch transmission (DCT) (pictured above), how would three shafts work?

According to the patent filing reported by Auto Guide, the three-clutch and 11-speed design reduces the torque reduction that occurs on vehicles with dual-clutch transmissions. It remains to be seen if this multi-speed gearbox ever makes it into production.

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Mohan K Ramanujam

Coming with diverse and extensive experience in heavy engineering, Mohan enjoys making anything with wheels go fast, especially motorcycles. His weapon of choice is the Desmoquattro engine, and he has a penchant for anything with a dash of Italian design. Strangely enough, he insists he's a slow rider.

 

Comments

  • heybadigol (Member) on Aug 23, 2016 at 5:28 pm

    My bicycle has 32 speeds. Beat that Honda. Hehe.

    Anyways, the problem with so many gears and clutches is reliability. And you need to go really fast to reach 11th gear. Possibly breaking some speed limits. Not sure if you can be doing 90km/h in 11th gear. Revs might be too low.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 31 Thumb down 3
    • Operation Manager on Aug 23, 2016 at 8:12 pm

      Oh sohai… 11-speed triple clutch for 210Nm 1.5 Turbo vtec dinosaur…??? Mazda Skyactive 2.0 NA direct injection already 220Nm with only 6-speed conventional…

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 27
      • Cb operation manager on Aug 23, 2016 at 10:25 pm

        Are you Mazda sales man.? Wht is so great of your mazda?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 5
        • karam singh on Aug 25, 2016 at 12:40 am

          he believe too much on the spec sheet,
          lol
          Some tuners dynoed the 1.5 engine & guess what?
          its produce more power & torque compared to the spec sheet.
          still, it can be tuned up to 225hp 275Nm
          well how much can the Mazda produce after tuned/reflash ? +10Nm & 5hp ?

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
          • Redidiot on Aug 28, 2016 at 12:46 pm

            But that honda engine is stuck to a weak ass tranny that wouldnt be able to handle the power increase.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
      • Don’t look at the number only, you have to look at the graph also, 220nm? At what rev the engine can achieve maximum output? Turbo engine can reach peak torque at as low as 1250rpm, whereas at least 4000rpm to achieve max torque for most N/A engine. Transmission that using clutch has less power reduction so that power on wheel is higher compare to conventional torque converter transmission. Go study before comment here, your comment makes you look like an idiot talking to the wall.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0
      • I thought its the Mazda with 210Nm and Civic with 220Nm. Get your figures right man.
        Anyway Honda can use it for the Civic Type R with 400Nm or NSX and at that point people will be saying why Mazda still using dinosaur 6 speed gearbox.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
      • DPCraft on Aug 24, 2016 at 10:48 am

        Btw Mazda 2.0 is 210Nm & Honda 1.5T is 220Nm. But does transmission determine the torque figures?? I don’t think so…

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
        • Cixcix on Aug 24, 2016 at 5:38 pm

          Who said this is for car? Maybe its for airplane, who knows lolx

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
        • karam singh on Aug 25, 2016 at 12:37 am

          so even if the Mazda more torque ,
          why Honda faster 0-100kmh ?
          1 – faster shifting
          2 – less power loss

          even u have so much power & torque,
          if the gear change too slow with lots of power loss around the drivetrain, its still slower & less economical.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
  • Not Toyota Fan on Aug 23, 2016 at 5:34 pm

    Giving credit where it’s due, development of transmission is extremely high tech. But with the trend of CVT, wonder where this will slot into Honda line up?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2
    • Maybe on their performance models. For reference, the NSX has a 9-speed DCT which had 2 more ratios than norm. Anyways, a patent filing doesn’t mean it will definitely go into production. Just an preemptive move in case other carmakers are developing a same system. IMO, more moving parts equals to more chances for failure though.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
  • Lee Kum Kee on Aug 23, 2016 at 5:56 pm

    Hopefully going into next Accord. Maybe not the 2017 CR-V as the next model is already put to pre-production.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
  • horrayooi on Aug 23, 2016 at 6:32 pm

    That is why Bezza, Axia, Vios, Almera and Proton Ertiga with 4 speed auto is obsolete.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 5
  • Even the new civic not using the in house design DCT…use DCT first then talk about this new gear box

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 4
    • The DCT for more sporty driving I believe….civic probably trying to achieve better mileage with the cvt…

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
  • blackbox on Aug 23, 2016 at 7:13 pm

    the owner will cry when the need to replace the clutch pack which should be a wear and tear item.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • Speaking from experience, although more efficient, the wear and tear for dual clutch transmissions are significantly higher than single clutch trans. This 3 clutches trans is a recipe for disaster if it ever comes here.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
  • Dude00 on Aug 23, 2016 at 8:56 pm

    I bet it is for a motorcycle! How about a new Honda Goldwing 1800 DCT with 11-speed DCT!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
    • haha.. Now it make sense. Ya.. maybe it is for their bike.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
    • You possibly right, but I’m quite sure it won’t appear in a Goldwing.

      Gearboxes with many gears usually make sense in small displacement engines with a small usable rev range (or high power bikes that have a small usable rev range too).

      As far as I know Aprilia already uses a dual clutch with optional “auto mode” in some of it’s bikes?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • Ben Yap on Aug 24, 2016 at 10:18 am

    when want to change clutch plate for triple clutch will be expensive right?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • Stop dreaming. this gearbox will not go into low-end mass production cars like Civic, Accord, or CR-V.
    It may match to the next gen or improved NSX or Acura lineup.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
    • I think it’s more into superbike application like their 6-speed DCT.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
 

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