Mazda won’t embrace downsized turbo motors – report

Mazda won’t embrace downsized turbo motors – report

Mazda’s commitment to perfecting the internal combustion engine leaves the company swimming upstream in this era of downsizing. Now, Mazda engineers are going all out with the development of the SkyActiv-X engine, set to be the world’s first commercial petrol engine to feature compression ignition, controlled using a spark plug in this case.

At the recent Los Angeles Auto Show, Jay Chen and Yoshiaki Yamane, powertrain engineers at Mazda North America, explained to Road & Track that the company simply doesn’t believe in downsized turbo engines and Continuously Variable Transmissions (CVT). “We’ve determined that CVTs and downsized turbocharging are not the solutions we want. It doesn’t drive like a Mazda,” Chen told the publication.

According to Chen, the strategy for a typical small-displacement turbo engine is just “trying to get great fuel economy and engine efficiency in one very small operating point.” This sure provides great on-paper fuel economy figures, but not in real-world conditions. Plus, tiny force-fed engines are just not that nice to drive, said Chen.

Mazda won’t embrace downsized turbo motors – report

Out in the real world, Mazda’s regular SkyActiv engines still outperform a downsized turbo, both in terms of CO2 output and drivability, with the latter being core to the company’s Jinba Ittai philosophy. Even today, Mazda’s range of rev-happy SkyActiv-G petrol engines feature high compression ratios (a minimum of 13.0:1) for lean burning, while the SkyActiv-D diesels have a low 14.0:1 compression ratio (low for a diesel).

“We don’t necessarily believe in what the other guys are doing. We believe the internal-combustion engine is here to stay and we believe our approach is better. In the past, Mazda has tried to compete head-on with Toyota and Honda as a mainstream headline commodity manufacturer, and we hurt from that that,” added Chen. In fact, the SkyActiv offensive, which began in 2012, proved to be successful when Toyota took a 5% stake in Mazda.

“They [Toyota] are actually starting to see the benefits of how we do things. Obviously Toyota’s new engine is very similar to our SkyActiv-G engine. They envy us and our ability to challenge and do things differently. Their deal is that they want to study our engine expertise. That’s why we’re not chasing CVTs or downsized turbos, or conventional hybrids,” said Chen.

Mazda won’t embrace downsized turbo motors – report

The 2.5 litre SkyActiv-G Turbo in the CX-9 is Mazda’s only turbocharged petrol engine

Despite its faithful push for naturally-aspirated motors, Mazda is not a complete stranger to force-fed engines. The just-launched Mazda CX-9 features a turbocharged 2.5 litre four-cylinder Skyactiv-G engine (also making its debut on the new Mazda 6), but the turbo is purposely designed to recreate the low-end torque characteristic of a larger V6 engine, hence the low output (228 hp, 420 Nm). Remember, the previous CX-9 had a 274 hp/367 Nm 3.7 litre Cyclone V6.

However, Chen stresses that SkyActiv-G turbo mill isn’t a performance-car engine, so don’t expect to see it in a new Mazdaspeed 3 (Mazda 3 MPS) or the MX-5. “The Miata is just recently new,” he said, adding that its “environmental impact is very, very low.” Interestingly, Mazda filed a patent for a triple-charged longitudinally-mounted engine in August, but that may not debut until after the second-generation Skyactiv-D engines are released in 2020.

Now, back to compression ignition. The new SkyActiv-X engine actually features a supercharger, but its purpose is not to increase output. Dubbed a “lean supercharger,” its primary function is to shove more air and exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) back into the cylinder. “We avoid the term ‘supercharger,’ because people think 2.0 liter supercharger, and they have a certain power output expectation.

Mazda won’t embrace downsized turbo motors – report

Mazda is banking big on its new SkyActiv-X compression ignition engine, going on sale 2019

“In order to achieve compression ignition, we’re using air-fuel ratios of up to 50:1, so we need to shove more air in,” said Chen. So, the supercharger is actually physically putting more air and EGR back into the cylinder, plus the same amount of gas.”

Yamane added, “Its purpose is to appropriate air into the intake, and therefore, it’s not so big.” Big here refers to the size of the supercharger; Yamane said engines with big superchargers often aren’t very fuel efficient. “This additional air supply makes close to the ideal combustion condition,” he added.

Enthusiasts will be happy to know that SkyActiv-X can be paired with a manual gearbox, and there’s a good chance Mazda will introduce that combo. The Hiroshima-based carmaker is testing the SkyActiv-X with automatic and manual transmissions as we speak.

Mazda won’t embrace downsized turbo motors – report

The good news is, the new compression ignition engine won’t feel too different from the company’s current crop of engines, just more responsive. “Drive your Mazda 3 in a lower gear. Then you’ll know exactly what this drives like,” Chen said. The interviewees were so proud of the SkyActiv-X that it spurred Chen to call it the “holy grail” of engines, while Yamane considers it the “ideal state of the engine world.” Bold claims indeed.

But what about the good old rotary engine? According to Yamane, Mazda has a small team of less than 20 individuals who are developing the engine, although no concrete plans have been made to bring it to production. Mazda is a small company, said Chen, so it has to focus its limited resources on the SkyActiv family.

The Skyactiv-X, which is said to combine the advantages of petrol and diesel engines to produce low emissions and increased performance, will make its debut in 2019. Whether or not its maiden voyage takes place in the next-generation Mazda 3 remains to be seen. For now, read more about what SkyActiv-X technology entails here.

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Matthew H Tong

An ardent believer that fun cars need not be fast and fast cars may not always be fun. Matt advocates the purity and simplicity of manually swapping cogs while coping in silence of its impending doom. Matt's not hot. Never hot.

 

Comments

  • Jinbaittai  on Dec 08, 2017 at 12:53 pm

    tested Proton 1.3 and 1.5l GDI and TGDI 180hp engines. Industry leading.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2
  • Henry on Dec 08, 2017 at 1:02 pm

    Mazda has innovated and found its niche. It need not jump on other manufacturers’ bandwagon.

    It is one reason why I bought two Mazda Skyactiv cars recently.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 5
    • sergei on Dec 08, 2017 at 2:42 pm

      Berjaya Mazda has been instrumental here. Mazda sharing Toyota best teknoloji.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2
    • Bhagal Singh on Dec 08, 2017 at 5:04 pm

      Mazda work hard. They know how to innovate. They don’t beg for money when they are down. Before Skyactive, Mazda was near bankruptcy.

      But the Japanese decided to work hard and do research to find a way to perfect the internal combustion engine. And they succeeded.

      They found their niche. Much better than the easy way out of begging for money.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 2
    • Kunta Kinte on Dec 09, 2017 at 7:09 pm

      Sorry to hear that. Your skyactiv is no way near the performance of German turbo charged cars.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
  • Azura Mazda all mighty on Dec 08, 2017 at 1:03 pm

    Hidden bonus, Mazda’s regular SkyActiv engines still outperform a downsized turbo, both in terms of wear and tear and fuel consumption.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 1
    • Kunta Kinte on Dec 09, 2017 at 7:10 pm

      Trying to console yourself, pit a Mazda 3 against a twincharged Jetta, tell me who wins?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2
      • Firstly, public roads are not a track…the 1.4 turbo engine which i assume you are talking about loses puff once it hits 100…secondly..I rather have fewer visits to the workshop to fix my gearbox which will inevitably break due to the highly stressed nature of the setup…. In the real world world…advances like direct injection and efficient burns have largely eliminated the torque and performance advantage of a turbo … on paper figures are just what they are..on paper…

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
  • lolpanda on Dec 08, 2017 at 1:07 pm

    i don’t doubt the Skyactiv-X is on its path to become a significant milestone in IC engines.

    But this phrase: “Out in the real world, Mazda’s regular SkyActiv engines still outperform a downsized turbo, both in terms of CO2 output and drivability”

    not sure how the current ‘regular’ Skyactiv-G 2.5NA matches an industry leading variation of a 1.6T in CO2 output, drivability, and of course output.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
    • Anonymous on Dec 09, 2017 at 3:49 pm

      They did say “in the real world”. These undersized turbo engines don’t actually work, and even Paultan has a report on it. There will be new testing protocols, and many manufacturers are reverting back to ‘correctly-sized’ NA engines.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
    • Downsized turbos are good only on paper and drives at a very unrealistic condition by the manufacturer to claim good efficiency on paper. That’s why EU are now changing the CO2 reading requirement to actual driving condition. If you google you’ll find articles where VW openly say they will consider to revert back to NA engines. Just go to CRV forum and read how many comments about high fuel consumption on their 1.5 turbo.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
  • Ok Mazda. We heard it all before with the rotary engine. Let’s see what you guys say in 5 years time.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
  • Jonn Dol on Dec 08, 2017 at 2:34 pm

    Mazda’s powertrain technology seems a bit more advanced than the rest of the Japanese marques. And Mazda car’s styling are also leagues ahead of them!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 4
  • Too bad I can only afford up to Mazda 3 :(

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
  • applegreen on Dec 08, 2017 at 2:47 pm

    Wanna start save $$ now to buy next gen mazda3

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
  • TopsyBoXyTurvy on Dec 08, 2017 at 4:25 pm

    Look at the torque curve (ron 95) of skyactiv X, almost flat ( like turbo engine) from 2000rpm to 5000rpm. That’s impressive

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
    • motorhead on Dec 08, 2017 at 5:53 pm

      Sembang kencang only, engine not yet been out dah kecoh satu dunia

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2
    • camtakpro on Dec 09, 2017 at 3:06 pm

      SykActiv-X need some form of charging afaik (either it is with supercharging or turbo) or at least, in this current implementation. Since turbo lag whether big or small or twin-scroll, most likely a supercharging will be used.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • It the chart correct? Ron 91 torque figure is much higher that ron 95. That’s impressive.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
  • Isit like BMW saying they wun downsize the engine only to downsize after a few years? We shall see.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4
  • Pakulupapito on Dec 08, 2017 at 4:52 pm

    Malaysia should change the roadtax system already….its not fair a 1.4 turbo engine with high power output need to pay less roadtax compared to 2.0 and above car. They should make it according to power output instead

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 9
    • Gov should change the roadtax based on emission, not based power and cc

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0
      • That will just benefit rich pipu cars which r loaded with exp techs to lower emission but pollutes environ when being scrapped.

        Better way is to follow Norway method of roadtax prices based on weight of vehicle on road. That way large heavy EVs, which wears out the roads same as normal cars, cant escape to pay their equivalent taxes as their NA brethren.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3
      • lolkat on Dec 08, 2017 at 7:36 pm

        should change Gov

        for tt 1 second loll.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1
  • CY Lok on Dec 08, 2017 at 5:06 pm

    They better do their R&D and road test enough before they start selling it in the market. The Skyactiv 2.2D diesel engine got lots of problem after using for a year and lots of owner are complaining it worldwide.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 5
    • Kunta Kinte on Dec 09, 2017 at 7:13 pm

      Agreed, google skyactiv problem, you’ll know what I mean. This tech is inferior and not reliable. Still too new. Better get a tested and proven turbo.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2
  • mdduan on Dec 08, 2017 at 5:17 pm

    with major city announcing ban on fossil fuel car.. i hope mazda will embrace ev tech.. if not mazda will be the new kodak moment.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
    • Anonymous on Dec 09, 2017 at 3:56 pm

      We still have biofuels, and Mazda is probably on the right track. 100mpg biofuel hybrids don’t need as much fuel, nor need as much batteries.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
    • Once you go small cc turbo, its very difficult to go back to NA cars. Such addictive low end torque and acceleration cannot be beaten by NA engine. If you rely on bigger displacement for more power, your engine block gonna be big and heavy, upsetting handling.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
  • Mr Hakim on Dec 08, 2017 at 10:46 pm

    Nah I don’t think it gonna last, one day they finally gonna give up and embrace the wonders of forced induction.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
    • Nazrul on Apr 20, 2018 at 7:28 pm

      With roots-type blower which Mazda calls”high response air intake module” on their SkyActive X, they have already to an extent, quietly and reluctantly embrace forced-induction method which they said they despise.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • Chock on Dec 09, 2017 at 12:12 am

    Mazda cars are unreliable, sensor and parts always spoil, and the spare parts cost alot more than competitor products… Things that normally dont spoil, will spoil in a Mazda!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 4
  • lol, in United state they already release 2018 mazda 6 with turbo

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
 

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