Kel over at Kel’s Konfused Konscience reviews the Smart’s Smart Forfour that comes with an automated manual transmission.
A snippet from his post:
To get a better idea of how it feels like to drive a Smart, you have to imagine driving a manual car with a rugby player sitting behind you. Just when you are about to change gears, the rugby player kick you in the head, and then your brain starts to spill out from your ears. And then it happens over and over again until you reach the sixth and final gear.
God forbid should you ever decide to stop on a slope, because this car rolls back the moment the brakes are let go, and it takes a second before the transmission wakes up and transfers power to the wheels. You would’ve already reversed into the car behind you, by which the dude would’ve introduced you to his fist, because you’re now apparently a dumb ass driver who own a car which looks like a frog.
Read his full review at his post “Smart is rather stupid.”
I hope the Proton Savvy’s Automated Manual Transmission option does not exhibit such behaviour as described by Kel, since both are manual transmissions with a computer activated clutch. It would be a disaster if it did. A real disaster, and it would seal the Savvy’s death as another failure.
After dabbling for years in the IT industry, Paul Tan initially began this site as a general blog covering various topics of personal interest. With an increasing number of readers paying rapt attention to the motoring stories, one thing led to another and the rest, as they say, is history. An avid electronic gadget aficionado as well as big-time coffee lover, he's also the executive producer of the Driven motoring TV programme.
haha hope so
the tiptronic sounds fun at first until this review
Unbelievable!! How come such kind of transmission can be approved?? I don't believed it until I drove one.
-.-'……… tiptronic……..
hey paul, can u give me an info about A1 and the update will ya?
stupid him back.
This Automated Manual Transmission is not for everyone, if the writer wants a full auto, go get another unit, leave this car and the comment to himself.
It is like asking a Manual Gear lover to comment on Auto Gear car, or Auto Gear lover to comment on Manual Gear. PLUS any new car we get in, it takes a little while to get use to.
Just for example the signal light in the Waja, if one is so so used to Japanese car, when you first get into one Waja, it is like "rugby player sitting behind you" too.
Automated Manual Transmission is for people who want a manual car, but are tired of the clutch. People who want total control of the gear instead of the car computer making the selection. No matter have advance the computer chip can come up to, it will never be the same as the driver making the gear selection based on his driving and road ahead.
Savvy, it will have his lover for this kind of Automated Manual Transmission
His point is not about the Gear control. IIRC , He said about the lag time when the gear is about to shift, not the Gear changing itself or something. I believe the reviewer was trying to experience Manual driving , but the AMT is too slow and laggy , so the power is transferred too slowly. (ex. You change into 1st Gear , Let go of the handbrakes and the car start to fall back down for 1-2 secs before powering back up, is that fun?)
Well hearing this , I am a bit scared to drive an AMT. But is tiptronic AMT also? But I heard tiptronic can be switched to full auto mode too , right?
tiptronic is a full-blown auto transmission, not automated manual.
Dunno bout the Savvy or Smart car but my City iDSI will also roll back at slope on D…
It's possible this might be partly the reviewer's fault. My experience with Alfa's Selespeed system is that when you change up, it's best to lift your foot off the throttle slightly to avoid the horrible lurch when the next ratio is engaged. Think about it: in a manual, would you hold the throttle on through an upshift? No, because the car would jerk…you only play with the throttle on downshifts, and with the Selespeed system at least, you don't have to do that – the engine does it for you.
That said, no AMT system is even close to as good as VAG's DSG. That thing is just a total revelation, and frankly I can't wait for Porsche's Doppel Kuplung system to be released.
this is dedicated to edw and holy_cow, two of the most clueless twats i have ever seen to comment on a blog:
you guys dont get the point do you?
if you have to lift your godamn foot off the throttle each time you wait for the car to switch gears for you, might as well get a manual transmission, right?
whether or not you lift your foot off the throttle or not, the lag is still there. lifting your foot off the throttle only makes the pag seem like its not happeneing, cause you are involved in the action of lifting up your stupid foot, instead of holding down on the throttle and waiting for gears to switch.
dont read between the lines you morons, you only make malaysians look stupid.
To be fair, the article didn't do the clutchless manual transmission any justice by constantly harping on its ridiculous auto mode, because when used properly in manual, it's not that bad. Point is, I'm not talking about driving it in manual. I drove it in auto mode. And a few others as well. Initial impressions are always those which count, and in many cases, make a break a car. We've all had experiences with the Selespeed transmission and other equivalent clutchless systems, but the Smart just fails to hit the mark when it comes to sensibility. The very idea of having a softTouch plus gear system on a city commuter with hardly more than 100 horsepower is already hilarious, compounded by the fact that drivers who do drive it in stop-and-go traffic would prefer to have it in auto anyway.
This all boils down to a matter of driver preference, but in my humble opinion, no car should ever have to force the driver to re-think their approach to driving when all it's meant to do is to ferry passengers from one intercity stop to another. Again, don't just make the assumption that I don't know how it is to appreciate clutchless manuals. I've had the priviledge of driving cars with better thought mechanics, and for RM101K, it can't afford to be this brash, particularly when it's in the company of cheaper Jap, Korean, and Malaysian alternatives.
this kel fellow is rather stupid. he should drive a manual car for a year. then he will love the smart.
101k…haha…..who cares,since those pple got lots of money to spend on s2pid way…
Wooties is absolutely right. There is no difference in trying to lift the foot off the throttle. The lag will definitely remain no matter what. Its just the problem of the gear box and ratios IMHO.
Anyways, we know that the car cannot corner to save it's own life as proven in Top Gear's Top 3 worst handling cars review which featured 3)Toyota Prius, 2)Perodua Kenari, 1)Guess what (Smart City Car). The Kenari drift was the highlight of the show. "Fantastic, Oversteer and Understeer in one small package here". James May
w00ties:
It's nice to have something dedicated to me, even if I have to share the limelight with edw. How sweet of you.
This statement in your generously dedicated posting was of particular interest to me:
"if you have to lift your godamn foot off the throttle each time you wait for the car to switch gears for you, might as well get a manual transmission, right?"
It made me think about abbreviations. Abbreviations, which are not to be confused with acronyms, involve taking the first letter of each word in a multi-word term and using that as a short form for the term itself. A good (and pertinent) example would be AMT, which stands for Automated (or Automatic) Manual Transmission. Since the 'M' in 'AMT' stands for manual, though, surely people who buy AMTs can't be said to be better off with manuals (whether or not they have to lift their foot off the throtte), since, well, they already own manuals. Pedantic, maybe, but linguistic inaccuracies are the veil of many a charlatan.
Another interesting abbreviation is CMT, or Clutchless Manual Transmission, which is slightly inaccurate because it refers to the clutch pedal as the clutch, making it seem as though the transmission has no clutch when in fact what it lacks is a clutch pedal. Hence when you say
"if you have to lift your godamn foot off the throttle each time you wait for the car to switch gears for you, might as well get a manual transmission, right?"
you are basically saying: 'if you have to lift your foot, which by the way has had a curse placed upon it by a supreme omnipotent creator deity, off the pedal everytime you get the car to operate the clutch for you, then you might as well buy a manual where you operate the clutch pedal yourself. Because it's all the same. Right?
I see my fallacy, now. Because I was thinking all along that people bought AMTs so they wouldn't have to operate the clutch pedal, but now I see that they buy them so that they don't have to take their foot off the accellerator when they shift gears. It's got nothing to do with the silly clutch pedal or people's left feet. Those engineers who laboured to remove clutch pedals from manual transmission were not labouring to remove clutch pedals, but in fact to remove the need to lift off the accellerator during an upshift. It's all as clear as day now.
Since, however, many AMTs actually require you to ease off the throttle when upshifting, we can safely condemn all AMTs as being the same as manuals and therefore of no worth whatsoever. Right?
Plus, while doing so, we can use a few naughty words on people and their feet and walk around feeling real good about ourselves for the rest of the day. Woo-hoo.
Somehow , I don't agree with you. I drive an Auto car myself and sometimes my friend's Manual. What I feel from an Automatic Trans car is that we really do not need to lift off the accelerator when accelerating hard to change gears. And for manual , well I'm not a seasoned manual driver so you know it better yourself.
One thing that is strange , if Savvy is gonna have an AMT like this Smart does , I can guarantee you that it's not going to beat the Myvi in terms of sales . No freaking way. However if AMT was changed to Tiptronic then maybe it will have some chance. I just don't feel AMT going our way , People (well at least I am) are more willing to stick with Clutched Manuals , because of the fun factor and the usefulness of the clutch in playing with the revs or gears , and because you won't fall back on a slope with a full-manual or full-auto. Unless you didn't learn how to do it at your driving school.
Point here is , people tend to think that AMT is in fact Tiptronic, Which allows for constant throttling , as opposed to AMT which is in fact a Manual transmission , albeit without the clutch. And I think it's a really bad idea coz a clutch allows manual cars to perform what auto cars can't. (eg. Wheelspin).
My opinion : Either get a full-auto w/ tiptronic for fun + comfort or just get a pure manual for fun and power. And in the middle , the AMT…I got a hunch it won't be good.
It still amazes me that after holy cow's lengthy explanation, you're all still making comparisons with an automatic gearbox! An automatic gearbox uses a torque converter to transfer the spinning of the engine's driveshaft to the wheels. You lose easily 10 to 15 percent of power that way. An AMT with a clutch you don't need to step on ensures you don't lose any of that power so a smaller engine like the Savvy will be able to output all of it's hp to the wheels, ensuring improved mileage and power when you need it.
The topic we're supposed to be discussing here is on the poor execution of this type of gear system on the smart. Not about auto box, not tiptronic, but a system like the selespeed, BMW's SMG, that's Sequential Manual Gearbox, and other similar systems on the Ferrari, Lambo Murcielago, Aston Martin Vanquish, etc.
SMG, Selespeed, Ferrari, Aston Martin suma sama saja, hillslope – engaged gear – mesti turun bawah punya -…….u have to play between brake and throttle……..
ok ka…..??? saya suda test semua ini kereta……sama macam Savvy AMT juga………
I am making comparisons with an auto gearbox simply because of the market , not the technology involved in it.
What I meant in my post was , the AMT platform is doomed , unless it is switched with Tiptronic FOR THE MASS MARKET. So don't go complaining about Ferrari's bla bla system . The mass market is something Proton can't deal with properly and will continue to haunt them for so long they will never forget. Remember Nissan? That's a GREAT example.
I don't really study automobiles and technology , nor am I a engineering student. Therefore all my comments are done in an way that I am always referring to the society and economy while commenting , Sorry if that caused any confusion.
to holy_cow, you still dont get the point, do you?
That depends. Is it the pointy bit?
hi eRis-Aeir4,you seem to be confused with the term tiptronic. as paul has already mentioned, same goes with marmitecrab, tiptronic is still a full blown automatic transmission with a torque converter.
TIPTRONIC=AUTO TRANSMISSION. no different than what you get in a proton auto, or myvvi auto, or..etc.
You shouldn't be referring to tiptronic as though it is different than auto.
"remember nissan?" did nissans problems have anything to do with implementing an AMT gearbox in their cars?
Considering that your comments are based on society and economy, you seem to suggest that the autogearbox is the only gearbox a car manufacturer should use for the "mass market".
whatever..my e90 dont fail me thou..not once..