Ever wondered who owns who, and who supplies what to whom in the automotive industry? Here’s charts of some sorts showing the relationships among Japanese automakers and also relationships between Japanese and American/European/Chinese automakers.
Click each chart for the fully blown up version.
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After dabbling for years in the IT industry, Paul Tan initially began this site as a general blog covering various topics of personal interest. With an increasing number of readers paying rapt attention to the motoring stories, one thing led to another and the rest, as they say, is history.
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…soooo many connection….
yeah..i saw them at my office…
aiiyoyo……
itu jeps….. pandai berniaga ….. kalu P1& P2 tiru sama jeps, mesti boleh maju…….
Ya…and Malaysian Proton thinks that they can make it in the international automotive market without any affiliation or collaboration….what a joke !!
SombongLand…
Its show that, Really a DOG EAT DOG World!!
Siapa Pandai Siapa Menang!!
YAU MOU GAU…..CHOR!!! Cheers! :P
wah lau eh… feel many stars are surrounding my head ah… connect here & there…
Why didn't show Malaysia?
becos Sombongland thinks that they can be World's No.1 auto company without any collaboration….and Proton feels malu to collaborate with Mitsubishi…wants to make own engine konon…did you all notice even Nissan's minicar are supplied by Suzuki? what's to malu about that?
Dear Paul, or anyone who knows,
If you don't mind can you explain to me about the Mitsubishi outsourcing its production to Pininfarina of Italy in the Japan-Europe chart. I'm bit confused. I thought that Pininfarina is a design firm. So what does the 'production outsourcing' between Mitsubishi and Pininfarina means?
Please,please…. is there anyone knows?
what's the point of having the Malaysian badge on the car when everyone knows its a lose making company? what's so proud about that? Most importantly, its a Malaysian badge with lots of cash in the pocket….who cares what's inside…be it Nissan, Mitsubishi, etc… isn't it all like that now in all Japanese / European cars?
Dats why lor….. too much "rojak" (patriot, pride, proudness, own, first, boleh, …….etcetc) into businesses, you make them fail.
Because business needs goals. Other people sets goals like market penetration, product improvement, cost reduction….. our POTONG emphasize on "Own Engine", "Own Design", "Own Supplier" (ingoring cost/quality), "boleh" ….. now? They got own engine, own design, own supplier liau. How? NO MORE GOALS. All achieved liau, they still try to stick on these……. so? Failure.
"Supply of CVs…"
hmm…
CVs = Completed Vehicles?
correct me if i'm wrong…
Did you know that Yamaha holds many pattens for Engines & Part including Musical things & Electronics…… many ppl have to lesen or get supply from them.
Hei korang gambar in nak tunjuk bagaimana Jepun nak/dah kuasai EU, China dan USA. Tak tunjuk macam mana nak/dah kuasai ASEAN, India dan Latin Amirica. Kalau ada gambarajah ASEAN mesti ada Perodua yang telah dikuasai oleh Daihatsu seterusnya oleh Toyota.
Apalak proton malu kerjasama dengan mitsubishi. Mereka yang nak keluar sebab dah hampir bangkrup jadi jual saham untuk dapat duit sikit. Mecedes pula datang rescue mitsubishi bila beli 47% share.
Rock said,
December 8, 2005 @ 11:44 am
Apalak proton malu kerjasama dengan mitsubishi.
=============================================
kerjasama ke? atau copy and paste? tepuk dada tanya selera…
collobration for improvement….
Kia dulu pun sebiji guna kereta mazda, hyundai pun guna engine mitsubishi sehingga tahun 1996. Jepun dulu pun tiru engine British, Raxton pun guna engine mercedes. Rover pun ambil sebiji kereta Honda…….. Hyudai pula sekarang cut and paste dari mercedes, bmw, jaguar, honda etc.
semuanyer copy and paste lah..
no wonder those big companys in japan has no problem in surving. " you help me I help you"… that's the way of living man. I think proton should follow these steps. learn from the "masters".
talk about world domination through properly working brains…..
baru tau korang kenapa susah sangat aumotif industry kat msia susah dapat input dari jepun. jepun ni kedekut, tanyalah engineer yang kerja kat kilang jepun ( seperti proton 10 years ago, infact HONDA kat melaka pun cukupla). i don't know why @bong says "learn from the masters". camne nak learn, diorang bukan ajar kat bangsa lain..
CV=Commercial Vehicles…(Van or Lorries)
Apalah susah sangat.
Orang jepun pun belajar dari Eropa..
Mai kita pergi Eropa dan belajar sana…
Bukan susah sangat .. kita bukan tak tau Inggeris hanya 20 tahun belakang saja.
Bahasa Jepun … banyak belakang…kiki
Itu lah kita mesti belaja dari Lotus dan improv..
Itu improv dan improv..
Orang Jepun masih belajar dari orang eropa. Cuba pergi ke Uni di UK, ramainya orang Jepun dan sekarang orang dari Negara China pula ramai…mengapa???
What's important this chart tell us??? Just focus to see how Japan-China have been connected. Due to restriction on automotive set by China government, foreign country have to pump-in the money to invest or opening up factory there for production, this partly also because the labour cost is lower. But more important we can see how it help China to grow up, especially like FAW group.
U may argue with me that: YAU MOU GAU…..CHOR!!! (SEE FU, just borrow a while, i won't black mail u.) Those Chinamen are copycat bulat bulat only!
Maybe it's true for now, but with those copycat products, China already stood out to produce some good designs liao. Wait-and-see, we'll be surprised one day!
This is how to do colloboration and alliances mah! See how flucture and uncertainty our automotive policy, plus ridiculous retriction… When to improve!!!
Bob said,
December 8, 2005 @ 11:05 am
Dear Paul, or anyone who knows,
If you don’t mind can you explain to me about the Mitsubishi outsourcing its production to Pininfarina of Italy in the Japan-Europe chart. I’m bit confused. I thought that Pininfarina is a design firm. So what does the ‘production outsourcing’ between Mitsubishi and Pininfarina means?
Please,please…. is there anyone knows?
___________________________________________________________________________
Please, USE YOUR OWN NAME. CHANGE TO WHATEVER NAME, JUST DONT USE MINE PLEASE.
Dear Another Bob,
I AM THE FIRST ONE WHO USE THAT NAME LAH!!Before now I used 'bob' then i changed it to 'Bob'. I use the capital letter 'B' now, not the little 'b' anymore
I've been visiting this blog site for months much earlier before you. No offense anyway…….
woot??? later are we gonna see another See Fu coming in claiming the he's been here earlier than SEE FU? wah… keliru lah!!!
I think proton direction for our own design,own engine,own label is good…yamaha hold a lot of pattern for engine etc, so with own design, engine etc, proton might 1 day be the source of pattern for asia auto industries…who knows…
Wah….really make me confusing!
As i know,Isuzu supply a lot of diesel engine
Yamaha got a lot of pattern……
Toyoto connection not so confuse(except china market)
Sometimes I feel that Proton has going to wrong direction or not wise enough… P1 have the Lotus ownership… already taken the interior DNA and put inside Gen2… why didn't take the exterior DNA and apply to SRM? maybe the front headlight and rear light lah but that's not enough maa… we need something that really we can call MY FIRST LOTUS at Satria price… everybody will be happy with the sexy look… same as you have a sexy girlfriend but high maintenance… who cares… sexy girlfriend always materialistic maaa… and always need a to top up the make up items time-to time… public already get use to it… but if rupa pun tarak tapi mengada-ngada… not acceptable lah…
on the first chart draw a line between Toyota and Fuji and another line between GM and Isuzu and it should be about complete..
if you used 'bob'. Then continue using it. Why change it to my 'Bob' ?
I am the original poster of those highly criticisive posts, accurate and indepth insights. Hence suddenly you go on asking questions such as what Mitsubishi had to do with Pininfarina, i felt offended.
Ok, Bob peace with 'Bob'; i answer your question. Pininfarina although is mainly a designer, however their factory consists of huge win tunnels for aerodynamic testings, test track, design houses and so on.
Mitsubishi however, is one behemoth of Japan company, having many high tech industrial machineries, they not only do banking, paper mill, heavy industries, financing, automobile and so on bla bla bla. And i wanna ask you a question to answer your answer. When you have that much machinery, high tech labs and so on, will you reject when you have businesses? Mitsubishi did supply the build up of some of Pininfarina's automobile automation machinery, prototyping casts, and even build some for them. Actually, it's just business, if Pininfarina would visit other manufacturers for similar requests, and that Pininfarina wasn't skimpy bout $$$, who wouldn't do their business.
Actually proton through Lotus has done and doing a lot of consultancy work for other car manufacturers in EU and Asia, thats what I read in some UK car magazines. Lotus also built a sports car for GM.
Wah Bob Vs bob case!!??
May I suggest the seconder use Bob2, it is to avoid any CONFUSION of comments lah!! you two are Great!! I like yours (both) comments!
YAU MOU GAU……CHOR!!! Cheers!
The earlier use Bob1, 2nd Bob2… any other Bob use Bob3… hey… Malaysia have millions population… thousands use the same name… must consider maa… or else use name as per IC lah… kawan-kawan tak mau lawan lah…
Paul, case getting serious… login ID needed…
Only 1 question for Proton….National Pride or Making Money ?
– sign out –
Dear Bob,
Thank you for answering my question. Anyway forgive me for being rude at the first place. I agree to change my name……….bob——-afif
In the first chart ( Japan) I thought Toyota holds large share in Yamaha. It turns out to be just 4.6%.
to 71Bug1200,
the logical answer to your question is…
masuk kocek…
Thanks bob. but if you prefer Bob1, i'd go Bob2. By the way, i checked, i'm the later person who enter this blog, so i should pay my respects to Bob1.
***Bob 2 helds high the sacred tea of wisdom above his head, kneeling and looking hearthenly sincere. He said with a firm voice, Bob1, will you take my as your holy disciple?***
lol …… joking lar…… .have a nice day everyone.
it is a widely known fact (i even did a case study on it) that japanese business are a complex lot… most of them stands as a keiretsu company that has multiple connections and having countless layers of firms within their supply chain.
what u see above is just a minor representation of the actual picture. if you are going to take into account of every little detail of connections they had, u'd be confused… i almost went crazy trying to unravel their system… practically though the major shareholders are the owner, many include their suppliers and customers had also bought share lots among each other…
to simply put it, it's a strategic alliance strategy but with abit tie ups to encourage and ensure responsibility and accountability… like u scratch my back i scratch ur back type of relationships.
traditionally companies are very much loyal to each other and they are bound by unwritten agreement and consensus. meaning that if they had always been buying from one supplier, they will continue to do so even if there is an emerging supplier firm who tried to penetrate the market by offering better terms. the original supplier will try hard to live up to the trust and expectation and offer similar terms to match the new firm's offer.
however these kind of situation are starting to change (for good or for bad) as Japanese are increasingly exposed to international business practice, and they are easily adaptable to suit and fit many occasions. They are willing to learn and innovative enough to adapt and improve foreign ideas to be uniquely their own…
though i do hope that we malaysians could succeed the way they did… however i very much doubt it. first of all, we dont have the culture of accountability and responsibility, where the leaders would admit to their own or subordinates' mistakes and resign (or commit ritual suicide).
secondly, we dont have the learning culture, where instead of actively seeking for knowledge and to experiment on our own to develop critical thinking, our education system still relies on spoon-feeding and text memorisation.
despite all the sweet talk and claims by the ministers and officials, just ask any form 4-5 student about their "SPM sijil terbuka", although the edu ministry says students can choose their subjects for exam under this system, actually do they really get to choose their subjects? tepuk dada tanya selera…
thirdly, we have a bad habit of "tidak-apa" attitude… i guess all of us knows what that means so i wont be explaining it.
fourthly, we have this "foolish simpleton" mindset… easily puas hati over small, unimportant or insignificant things… how could we have pride in the largest mooncake, longest keropok lekor and tallest building replica made of empty water bottles are beyond me. we have this "ayam bertelur sebiji, riuh sekampung" mindset.
celebrating when achieveing something is not wrong, but done excessively, it's would seem ridiculous. there is nothing to be proud of if it's just a one time achievement… unless we could consistently produce or achieve something, only then we can say we're good at it…
to show u an example, how many times does we get to win the Thomas Cup in badminton? yes we may have exceptional athletes every now and then, but do we produce champions consistently? even the last time we won the cup was more than a decade ago… we may continue lying to ourselves that Malaysia is a force to be feared in badminton but fact is, China and Indonesia produces more champions consistently…
let's not just talk about badminton, look at football as well… gone are the glory days of yesteryears, despite the pay and facilities, our footballers with their "kaki bersepuh emas" cant even defeat Vietnam!!! and i still remember very clearly a cartoon published in Berita Harian a few years back, showing our fully dressed footballers in jerseys and boots lost to kaki ayam, sarung-clad vietnamese… can u imagine the shame?
we may continue to live our dreams that we are a competitive country, where we have better facility and infrastructure, educated, skilled and cheap workforce, but fact is we're losing out to just everybody! Thailand does not have a National car project, yet carmakers not only setting up assembly plants, but R&D centres as well… what have we got from our own national car project? well the answer is very obvious so i'm not gonna elaborate here.
in conclusion, we should start re-examine ourselves. we have to reset and reprioritize. we should concentrate on what we does best and not trying to be everything! wan to be multimedia and information hub (MSC) but failed. want to be educational hub (no result yet). wan to be automotive hub (NAP) failed miserably. distribute wealth fairly (NEP)? heck only ppl within the Chronicles (Crony Circles) get the wealth while there are still poor ppl around…
would there be change for the better for malaysia in future? well there is a possibility and in fact i do hope so. but judging from the mentality that is deeply ingrained in all of us malaysians i had my doubt. by having just a handful of enlightened soul is not enough to improve this situation. there are bound to resistance to change. ppl refuse to move out of their comfort zone to improve… they prefer things the way it is… and forever be stagnant pool of water which will soon dry up if there are no effort taken to find the river.
i'm sorry paul, for typing so much and being out of topic… i just cant stop it… i just hope that ppl would start wake up and smell the coffee. i for myself will continue striding hard to improve my own self and situtations… there are nothing which is totally out of our control… we do have control up to a certain extent. it's whether we utilise the control properly or not.
Anyway… all the above view points are good.. some ever support our own P1 n P2 to go further…
Let see how the new MD of P1….. see some hints in those charts…..
Brand = Proton
Heart = sebarang…..
Quality = Japanese grade
Cost = Msian standard
Maintenance = Reasonable
All these add together = Msian Boleh….
Now aday,,, no 1 really care who supply engine.. or who supply gear box or wat so ever… as long as the car look good … good QC…. it sell……
what about me bob and Bob
should we just say bob1, bob2, bob 3 etc etc
have fun
Excellent one HatukNgKau, well said, well said!
***Bob bents slightly, lowering his hat with a hearteous bow to salute his excellency HatukNgKau after his excellency's speech to guide our nation***
IMO = This is better than the tongkat speech given by Dr. M that time…. :D
the chart make me further understood how to survive for a car manufacturer… so many relationship among the car manufacturers!! now i know…
finally bob vs Bob case end. both win win situation. well done.
cheers…
Peta penjajahan baru…. minda pun kena jajah… hai jopon, jopon
ha… nie wujud lagi sekor monyet yang tak sedar-sedar lagi…
ko tak tau ke berapa banyak Proton dah cekik darah rakyat? berapa banyak nyawa melayang kerana kereta yang tak berkualiti?
kerana Proton, kerajaan tak wajibkan ABS dan airbag.
kerana Proton, rakyat tak mampu nak beli kete, terpaksa naik motor, kena hujan, kena panas terik matahari, kena gelek dek lori bila berteduh hujan di bawah jambatan???
kerana Proton, polisi kerajaan menyusahkan rakyat, memudaratkan ekonomi negara!!! berapa banyak hari bekerja yang terpaksa diabaikan, mintak cuti untuk bawak kete Proton pergi service centre? tuan punya kete rugi gaji, kompeni dan negara rugi produktiviti!
kerana Proton, berapa banyak duit rakyat melimpah ke luar negara? Beban hutang kerajaan naik, Proton pi beli lotus, MV Agusta tu, bawak untung tak? yang Hatuk nampak, asyik rugi ajer…
asyik-asyik nak berlagak… buat kete sendiri konon… nak hantar angkasawan konon, nak bina putrajaya, cyberjaya konon… duit tu datang dari mana? kalo monyet tak tau, Hatuk bagi tau… duit hutang kerajaan Jepun lah tu…
pasal inilah negara tak berdaya nak tentang penjajah… saper yang jemput diorang datang dulu? sekarang ngko nak tuding jari pada penjajah luar? cerminlah diri tu dulu… sokong membabi-buta tu bukan tak boleh, tapi kenalah tengok tempat dan waktu… jangan nak ikut org tua nyanyuk tu, padahal diri sendiri bermasalah, asyik nak salahkan org lain…
nak tuduh minda org kena jajah, tapi padahal dia sendiri berminda katak bawah tempurung…
monyet… oh monyet….
Ini cut and paste macam Hyundai aje.
PEMBETULAN!!!
=========
"…cut and paste macam Proton aje."
would u just shut up if u have nothing to contribute?
nobody would think u’re pekak & bisu if u dont say anything…
Woi cakap baik-baiklah… don't be rude.
Cucu-cicit Biduanda
the same goes for u ujang.
there are ppl who are even more expressive and much more rude. what i had said is considered light. nobody has given u the right to police ppl's comments save for Paul himself.
anyway this has gotten way off topic so i'd suggst anybody who doesnt have anything to say related to this topic, pls refrain from commenting, lest more arguments come out.
Name calling is not nice.. boleh di ban oleh UEFA dari menghadiri perlawanan bola sepak kat Europe..