This is a short update – The Star SMS Alert reports that the government is looking at restructuring the fuel subsidy into a system where the rich pays more and the poor pays less. Not sure how that will work, and there’s only so much details you can fit into an SMS so look for an update on this matter sometime in the newspapers soon.
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After dabbling for years in the IT industry, Paul Tan initially began this site as a general blog covering various topics of personal interest. With an increasing number of readers paying rapt attention to the motoring stories, one thing led to another and the rest, as they say, is history.
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Bullshit…..a big time tycoon with a fleet of VW, Jaguar, Porsche and so on would just drive off a 15 year datsun sunny 130Y with modified 100 litre petrol tank to get petrol at a max subsidized price. What a stupid idea from the govt.!!!!
Imagine the loopholes……and corruption that follows.
Don’t think its even possible.
However, now that the election is near, I bet the present government is treading very carefully on this matter.
ok, being a noob in the argument for ever-increasing fuel prices, i would like to ask a few questions about it. (hopefully someone will reply)
1) Why are fuel prices increasing?
2) Does the road tax have any effect on helping with fuel prices?
3) Apart from paying for the actual product itself does the government benefit from it?
4) Is there any way of calculating the taxes (if any) enforced on fuel prices to find out if some other party is benefitting from it?
6) What if the government just increased the price of (example- toll rates or etc) to subsidize for fuel prices instead?
( like i said i’m a noob at these things so please don’t read and prejudice against me =) )
Is time to Cut our hard earned money again. ABB Nice G!
government is looking at restructuring the fuel subsidy into a system where the rich pays more and the poor pays less.
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Sure cann’t work la.
Encourage people to take NGV. So stupidla Proton and perodua dun sell cars that already use NGV…damn stupid.
Fair enough, but could proof fatal!
What if the government restructing our toll rates system where the big cc cars pays more and the less cc cars n commercial cars pays less.
WAH!!! that’s kinda unfair le….
forestcat said,
November 9, 2007 @ 8:05 pm
Encourage people to take NGV. So stupidla Proton and perodua dun sell cars that already use NGV…damn stupid.
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>>>NGV will eat a lot of ur boot space, so that’s why car manufacturers dun sell them as std, cuz many might nt want to sacrifice space.
The problem with NGV is the number of the NGV’s station is too little…government should provide more station before they can promote it
neoracing87 said,
November 9, 2007 @ 7:24 pm
ok, being a noob in the argument for ever-increasing fuel prices, i would like to ask a few questions about it. (hopefully someone will reply)
1) Why are fuel prices increasing?
ANSWER – OUR COUNTRY IS NET EXPORTING OIL AND FUEL IS UNDER “CONTROL ESSENTIAL ITEM”, JUST LIKE RICE, SUGAR, WHEAT, ETC. THEREFORE, IF ANY INCREASE, IT SHALL SUBJECT TO G INTERVENTION (NOT SUBJECT TO MARKET FORCES) WHEN COME OT PRICE ADJUSTMENT. G VIEW IT AS RELEVANT OT NATIONAL SECURITY AND MAY SUBJECT TO RATION IF THERE IS SHORTAGE (IF ANY). SINCE WORLD OIL PRICE IS ON THE INCREASE TREND, OUR FUEL ALSO SUBJECT TO THIS IF THE INCREASE IS SUBSTANTIAL.
OUR FUEL PRICE IS “LOW” COMPARE TO NET IMPORTING OIL COUNTRIES LIKE THAI, SINGAPORE, ETC. BUT IF COMPARE TO NET OIL EXPORTING COUNTRIES LIKE BRUNEI OR UAE, OUR PRICE IS “PROHIBITIVELY HIGH” JUST LIKE CAR PRICES UNDER NAP. THIS IS BECAUSE COUNTRIES LIKE BRUNEI AND UAE, APART FROM LOW FUEL PRICE LIKE “BUYING MINERAL WATER”, THEIR LOCAL CITIZENS ALSO ENJOY FREE ELECTRICITY AND NO INCOME TAX.
2) Does the road tax have any effect on helping with fuel prices?
ANSWER – NO, ANY REDUCTION BY G NOT LONG AGO IS JUST “PEANUT”, COMPARE TO CAR PRICE AND TOLL THE OCNSUMERS HAVE TO PAY.
3) Apart from paying for the actual product itself does the government benefit from it?
ANSWER – G BENEFITS DIRECTLY ARE EXCISE DUTY, SALES DUTY AND IMPORT DUTY. OTHER ARE HIGHER INCOME BY CLASSIFY THE CAR BASED ON CC. OTHER BENEFIT TO INDUSTRY ARE CRONIES (AP GIVEN BY G FREE BUT CAN BE SOLD RM 20K TO 50K BY AP KING) , INSURANCE FIRMS (HIGHER PREMIUM FOR HIGH CAR PRICE, BANK INTEREST, ETC.
4) Is there any way of calculating the taxes (if any) enforced on fuel prices to find out if some other party is benefitting from it?
ANSWER – THE PROPOSED FUEL SUBSIDY BASED ON INCOME GROUP OR INDUSTRY LIKE DIESEL IS SUBJECT TO ABUSE AND MISUSE.
6) What if the government just increased the price of (example- toll rates or etc) to subsidize for fuel prices instead?
ANSWER – TOLL INCOME GO TO CRONIES AND THERE IS NO WAY TO CROSS SUBSIDY FOR THIS TWO SUBJECT MATTER.
( like i said i’m a noob at these things so please don’t read and prejudice against me =) )
THE ABOVE ANSWER JUST CONSTITUTE THE OPINIONS OF THE FORUMERS AND IT NEITHER REPRESENT THE PUBLIC VIEW NOR IT IS “FINAL JUDGEMENT”!
The only thing G can do are built “fuel tax” into prices for bigger cc car or gas guzzler vehicle like MPV, SUV, etc
Then improve public transportation. If gov can spent RM100 billion on roads and highways. Why not mere several billions to put several thousand buses(low floor and tilting please with ramps) on the roads of Malaysian cities ,double tracking railway lines and build LRTs in urban areas.There’s no other way.
I beg to differ, I have seen NGV vehicles in Australia and Malaysia. They do not consume the whole boot. For a car like Waja(I’ve seen one with NGV), the tank would only consume about 1/5 of the boot and I dun see any problem with space in the boot..u’re not filling it up all the time. Next time, leave clothes at ur kampung so that u don’t need to bring too many clothes when balik kampung.
I believe NGV vehicles should be encouraged in Klang Valley where Petronas statins are quite in abundant. Even for small cars its worth using NGV if u use it to got to work.
If wanna install NGV tanks,contact Tractor Malaysia(or Malaysia Tractor,forgot which comes first), I know they’re used to this.
As I see it, the statement is just to garner general votes. Most of the voters are from the “average” and “not rich” category. Given that there is a system to reduce subsidy for the rich.
1)How much material impact is this going to save the Government? What percentage of these rich people’s cars as compared to the general motoring public.
Most of the richer people in Malaysia drive conti cars that are very fuel efficient with low emissions. Given the size and weight of their cars, most of them either consumes less or just as much as a proton.
2)What constitutes rich? Presently. there is no uniform standard as what constitutes rich.
Perhaps the government should be spending better resources in curbing all those “losses” in the billions resulting from CBT or mis-management. Those money can go a long way in building better roads. Perhaps even reducing road traffic congestion.
its more of the NGV fill up problem……currently only Petronas carries NGV in some of their gas stations and as we know…..we often see taxis queueing for gas and its a very long queue……so whats the point of NGV when refuelling also causes so much problems….
is this because of the kid who gave comparison between taukeh with Mercedes and pakcik with a kapcai?
come on. for one kid’s rubbish, you guys are revamping the system? and for his words that surely weren’t even credible to think of, then you gonna ask those taukehs to pay more for petrol?
come on.. this is a joke.
last time, under the last regime, we were on course for projects that would made us be less dependable to petrol/fossil fuel. (i.e electric powered train, etc.etc). but somehow, greed and stupidity came, and they (the projects) were terminated.
we are lacking visions and good brains. we cannot fail to do projections on such important issues. or else we gonna be the worst hit.
come on…think. think.
the rich pay more and poor pay less? susah la macam ini…hard to implement this kind of things…
well…somehow, i think we should do this on cars instead on fuel…
higher taxes on luxury cars while no tax for cheap cars for common ppl…
How is it going to work? Integrated info in MyKad? Petrol attendant to judge rich or poor?
Well, if NGV is too difficult, what then,I am sure KLites will give excuses too to avoid pubic transport(either malas or out of ego as PT has been associated with low income people). We know oil price will keep increasing.Even if it falls, it won’t be as cheap as 2-3 years ago.
Being in Australia, I also see many Australian are suffering from increasing fuel price(they are already paying high taxes and high interest rates). Two effect are that Melbourne’s public transport patronship jumped by 30-40% since last year that the system is overloaded any many Australians are switching to cars which are below 2.0L rather than usual 2.6-4.0L cars(2nd hand cars of this class of cars are dirt cheap as no one wants them,although they’re 3 years old only,a 2.6L Mitsubishi Magna 1999 is just $2000). Malaysian cars are already mostly below 1.6L,we can’t go any lower, so it seems the only thing we could learn from the Australians is take public transport which may be viable only in KL and Penang, I am not sure about other Malaysian cities though,IMO they’re the ones who’ll be affected the most, At least KLites and Penangites have options other than cars.
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BigFish said,
November 9, 2007 @ 9:12 pm
The only thing G can do are built “fuel tax†into prices for bigger cc car or gas guzzler vehicle like MPV, SUV, etc
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Hmm.. that’s an idea. Maybe that’s what they’re going to do. Or maybe fuel prices will be determined by the cc of your car. If that’s the case, then we all need to learn how to siphon (from your kancil to your beemer that is).
Is that Khairy thingy again… Think laa… If u want to charge ppl in petrol station, then next time the rich ppl drive cheap car to come put fuel then can get subsidy also izzit? This cant be done in the petrol station, i think the best way is to put higher road tax or fuel tax on higher cc cars. Like 2.5L car above must pay extra 30% a year… Example…
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LittleFire85 said,
November 9, 2007 @ 11:32 pm
Is that Khairy thingy again… Think laa… If u want to charge ppl in petrol station, then next time the rich ppl drive cheap car to come put fuel then can get subsidy also izzit? This cant be done in the petrol station, i think the best way is to put higher road tax or fuel tax on higher cc cars. Like 2.5L car above must pay extra 30% a year… Example…
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em..i aggre with u.if rich people can afford a hundred thousand car..of course they can afford pay higher road taxes.rich people tend more to do pembaziran.for example if they drive big cc car but just want or two person in the car,i believe it consume more fuel from maybe 1.3 myvi with carry 5 people.one more thing,not malaysian people cannot buy fuel at subsidies price.they should buy fuel at the real market price.
apart from imposing tax based on engine displacement, maybe can impose tax based on each car model’s fuel consumption (km/l).
There will be a lot of loophole to indentity rich and poor. I remembered some buyer bought gas from tsunami fisherman victim in cheaper gas price that is lower than regular gas price…
lol…does anyone remember the adopt a mat rempit proposal??
lol lol lol x 9999999999999…
what a great mind our ministers have.~!!!!
amazing…
the rich pay more and the poor pay less…. lolz…
how they hell they manage to come out with such kiddy proposal??
giving them some benefits of doubt, let’s wait for the details~
susah lah if they wanted to implement such system. the rich ppl always has good connections and loopholes to get cheaper petrol. look at our company/personal tax structure for example, do you think big company paying more tax than small company?hey, they always trying to ‘adjust’ the book keeping lah, rite?
why dont u just dont subsidize petrol and just exempt tax on all cars including imports.
all u need to do is ask the poor kid to buy fuel for you. and give him a piece of chewing gum.
Indeed very stupid!
I don’t think it’s right to charge different patrol rates base on who’s rich and who’s not, I think the higher road tax for higher cc cars or higher fuel consumption cars is the best way if the government really needs to implement a system such as this.
How is it that they are gonna determine who’s rich and who’s poor anyway! What if a rich person drives a cheap/low fuel consumption car? should he still be charged highly?
I say…we should all be more socially responsible, don’t drive when you don’t need to, save fuel in all ways possible. This don’t just apply to Malaysians but for everyone globally, and for ships, TRY for goodness sake to avoid/prevent oil spills(what a waste!). And then hope that other non-fuel vehicle alternatives appears fast at affordable rates!
*btw, i thought there are electric/H2O,etc powered cars that are already invented…why are there no efforts in making it more commercialized around the world? anyone care to tell me why…is it the cost of production or is it because the car can’t go fast without patrol?
what a joke! Just scrap the whole subsidy thing instead
will not work. Those who work in private or have own companies can declare assets below value. Saying you only get 5k/month and 4k is paid to other “companies” which are your wife, children etc. No use there.
There already is such a system. its called income tax. As you earn more, you already start to pay considerably more taxes than the person who earn less, and it goes up the more you earn. people in the low income group are not taxed. kapchai riders dont pay income tax..etc.
same goes with big engined cars. regardless of the price of the car, you are already paying very high road tax for vehicles above 2500cc today. but it still doesnt mean a thing. if a person buys an RM80k ford ranger, and a guy who buys a RM280k 325i, they both pay the same road tax.. so who is richer? What if you buy a RM190k 1.6ltr mini cooper s?
The present trend of conti cars are going towards smaller CC, supercharged, high hp and torque,fuel efficient and lower emissions. These cars cost an arm and a leg to buy.Duty based on CC of the car? They may fall below the present selling prices.Just some stats The new Merc C Class is 1.8litre supercharged engine, delivers 180plus horses and consumes under 10litres per 100km. The future engine Diesotto delivers even more horses and 5 litres per 100km consumption.The C Class sells for about 250k, cheap? Not within reach of most people. Road tax RM278.40. The E200k that sells for 350k has the same engine, therefore road tax cost the same.How do you then make them pay more based on CC? The 2litre Perdana incurs more road tax at less than half the price of these cars. Moral of the story, stop the subsidy, invest in technology, produce better and fuel efficient cars for the people. Less fuel consumption and better for the environment.Anyway, how much is the government going to spend to implement the new system….. Merc only sell 3800cars a year la.Spend big money to chase small returns….
it’s all about $$.. tax this tax that. this $$ cover here, that $$ cover there.. some $$ don’t know GO WHERE?? New car tax, road tax, fuel price rising, flour price rising, toll price rising, G staff/servent no bonus, income tax n even we Eat also need to treat G 5%.. haiz..$$$$.. G BOLEH!!
I would say the G assumed that bigger CC cars are owned by rich people..
If that would be the idea than its stupid…So if i assumed this applies to diesel as well, hmmm you do the math.
(SORRY, TOO MANY ASSUMPTIONS, JUST MY OPINION)
So it is true that Khairy a.k.a Pak Lah’s son in law is his advisor. Pak Lah only listen to him. Hmm. Bersih bersih..
Use mykad to to verify your income status. Then only allow you to pump petrol at a special rate.
Come on people stop guessing, the above never mention about NGV, nor anything about charging different fuel price to different car, nor anything about roadtax, it just say “Gov to restructure fuel subsidy”.
How to justify the rich give more and the poor pay less? The average to poor people are still the majority(90%++), how on earth to tax those rich people to make the poor pay less? Lets see what will our big brains in gov will think about.
But it is true that Malaysia should really revamp the subsidy system, unhealthy and make all of us like greenhouse plant.
Get rid of subsidies… that way, our GDP growth is NOT artificial! That’s fair to everyone.
Example, the lower income group may not want to own a 2000cc car due to high FC consumption and will opt for smaller cc instead. The higher income group can afford anything higher than 2000cc.
Also, do away with road tax based on cc… currently, it is UNFAIR! Why should a Perdana owner pay the same amount as a 520 or 320 owner? Go by vehicle weight or cost instead.
Rich pays more and poor pays less? Sounds very communsist to me. All hail Mao Zedong!!!
I dun trust any one, either from Proton or Petronas. What we need is a good and efficient management team together with an Excellent CEO. At least he has 50 percent quality of Tony Fernandez.
No they just talking rubbish only. How appalled am i to see how Malaysians react so damn fast to such a rhetorical speech rendered by a ‘green boy’…
Every time after the shitting phrases jumping out from his mouth, all the prime mass medias will promptly publish the reports the next day with out fail.
Yeah i knew he’s a bloody powerful and influential figure in Malaysia. Even your dear PM has to comply under the kid’s command. Lucky boy !
How do they draw a line between the rich and poor ? And how do they define the middle class ? On what standard it will be based on ? Is it will be decided by utilizing their corrupted cronysm and nepotism mind set ?
Currently don’t rich people pay more for taxes while the poor don’t pay any ? Don’t rich muslim people oblige to pay ‘zakat’ ?
Of course there are good, bad and ugly rich people but how do you differentiate those.
Why the rich people need to sacrifice more again when they’ve already being punished to always pay more. Where does government get the monies for subsidizing if it’s not from those who pay taxes. So what’s the benefit of paying taxes if it’s not to ease people’s life. Where are they going to channel the monies to instead of flowing directly to the people ?
So what’s next ? You wanna put different tag price for rice, flour, sugar, water and electricity billings etc..etc ? The exactly same branded rice but with two distinguished prices ? So what’s the meaning of paying extra taxes you bloody moron scumbag…it should be off-set.
Or perhaps it does tell us that those blood sucking filthy rich morons and their cronies really don’t fulfill their responsibility to the nation by paying taxes ? So the IRA and ACA dogs should go after ‘those’ instead of coming up with a bullshit new sweeping regulation which replicates a penalty for being rich and economically sounds chap. They are discouraging people to be rich because the strata only entitled to them and cronies ? My ass…..
Is this the best you can offer Mr. Oxbridge ? Don’t take Malaysia with you down further into the darker abyss. Enough is enough. Stop acting like a clown and make the country as your circus playground. Shiiit…should i apply for PR ?
I guess the green boy have to use his brain when talking. He is talikng in the point of republicans and not democratics. Ceteris paribus… Although there are rich and poor people in the world, we have to be fair to all no matter who he is. I felt very sad and bad about the statement made….
stup-it
this takes the cake for being the “stupidest idea ever”!!! i can’t even imagine the abuse that will happen if this ever takes off the ground. seems like all the G ever does is to make up excuses so that their cronies can profit from it… sigh. I feel too disheartened to comment anymore.
This cant be be avoided as even our government income per annum increases every year, but the expanses increase much more. THis is true when a government is growing in term of number of ministries etc. With the inrease number of G officers, eventually more and more leakage of G fund into corruption yearly is unavoidable, unless all G agencies account been audited by independent established company. So when they is increasing expanses, and GLC cant generate much profits every year (??) increase in taxes to her own citizen is the only solution.
I personally do agree with fuel tax for consumer of a vehicle with a higher cc, 4-wheels vs 2-wheels drive and fuel consumption per km, as the differences will determine the petrol usage. Other component of a cars example air-bag, luxury seats, etc do not change the petrol usage. So this fuel tax should be calculated and added into the price of the car instead of into the petrol price as this may lead problems mentioned above. The taxes should take account average lifespan of a car to formulate the taxes. Another option is to do taxes based on above criteria but charge annually, together with road tax. This will be better option , as G can adjust the taxes acoording to petrol price annually. This also better for Those who can afford more luxury car only for few years and subsequently decide to sell them (should not be taxed so much as those going to own and use them for many years!)
I think NGV is still not an answer to current problem as the investment to convert all petrol station with NGV is huge investment, any gases also can be depleted eventually like petrol. Now we actually see many technologies are available now to replace the use of petrol especially in vehicles that used in a confined area or within the same township like electric cars and this should be promoted with tax exemption and G initiative with the involvement of GLC to commercialize this (many those invented by local U).
Again the best solution is still improve the usage of G fund, reduction of corruption, and reduction of smuggling by better enforcement, as this country is a country with rich natural resources like other countries in middle east and in SEA like Brunei, and the citizen should be benefited indirectly from this (not to be wasted by inefficient management).
i read at star newspaper today…really got this plan…wow…i wonder how it’s going to be implemented…but i can see that it’s hard to implement it…
so next time when we go to petrol station, there will be two different pumps?
RICH and POOR?
BMW/Merc pls go to RICH pump….
Proton/Perodua pls go to POOR pump…
like that ar?
It really funny that had such subjection occurs. Base on Rich and Poor status and guess it was FIRST in the world have such. (Any countries do have this implement?). Interest to know how they really can control it.
Control
Some time back the Industrial Diesel issues, is that able to control?
Our neighborhood (SG / TH) travel across to buy patrol, is that able to control?
How you control Poor do get advantage? Check your ID before Pump patrol, with Sticker?
Definition
How it been classifier as Poor?
If you Poor, than how can you buy the car, why not take public transport? (Public transport not cheap as well)
Poor = Not good, being of a very low quality, quantity or standard?
If you working in “G†and patrol was pay by “Gâ€, was this consider as “Poorâ€
If you work more related to PR or on sales, was this consider as “Richâ€
If you work more related to PR or on sales, where car model do play a role, as this consider as “Richâ€
If you work more related to yard, where driving a 4×4 car, as this consider as “Richâ€
If you work more related to out station, where bigger car was more safety and convenient, as this consider as “Richâ€
If you have more than 5 families & have MPV, as this consider as “Richâ€
If you stay in a Flat, are you considering as Poor? (Rich people do stay there)
We certainly don’t lead a life of luxury but we’re not poor either
Personally, people who provide this idea because they Patrol pay by “G†and didn’t know what the people life in real world.
Wake up…World going to Flat mode not round or can be isolate any more.
Suggestion:
Patrol or GST Tax implement across everyone, no Race different, No level different.
You use you pay similar to GST, which will implement next 1 to 2 year time.
If “G†care, remove the toll fees (Purchase it) by used the oil subsidies not both increase together, as end of day money was from Left to Right Pocket and impact people.
maybe will develop an electronic device to detect our income status on our mykad. so we will be charge on the rate implement on us… lol
well, it looks like another big project (with plenty of opportunity to gease some palms) if it happens. Where can I register to be a contractor/supplier for this project? I wanna be crony also lar…
helo PM, pls pls pls get a good task force to study our present diesel subsidy system first before you go a blow gazillions of ringgit. Technology cannot overcome human greed. Even nano-tech used in the diesel fuel did not stop the receipient of subsidised fuel from selling it to commercial users. To the fisherman, heck if some other fella can make RM40k for a piece of paper called an AP, why can’t i make 40cents for 1 litter of diesel?
This has to be the most stupid suggestion in Malaysia’s automotive history. As torishi mentioned, the rich are already paying more in terms of taxes and now they want to implement something like this?
It’s high time the G look at more economical alternatives. Europe has been running clean and economical diesel for decades. Over here, we have subsidised diesel that are smuggled everyday. When are they going to plug this hole that costs millions every year? And then diesel roadtax is so high that only businessmen can afford. VW’s 1.6 diesel golf can do more than 40mpg without even trying. With diesel prices being much lower than petrol, we should have such economical cars here too.
If VW and Proton ever end up together, I hope they will quickly come up with a diesel car for everyday use.
for me, i do agree in principal in terms of subsidizing only for the poor but it all falls on the implementation.. obviously subsidizing at the petrol pump would never work.. maybe we should restructure our taxes or maybe put the money somewhere else, like into education etc.. lift the subsidy on fuel and put the money into education for the poor, we all know that graduates nowadays would be paying for education loan for quite some time..germany provides education free for everybody even at the university level..why can’t we do the same? we could as well reduce the cost of public transportation cost…there’re many different mechanism to distribute money in order to help the poor just hopefully our G can find the best way that would benefit everybody…
abis if i use Merz or BMW 7 series that is 15 years old how? still RICH people so in same bracket like people with BMW new 735Li or new SLK ka?
so clear election is nearby.. coz of a sudden.. all this stupid thing related to oil, toll, etc need to be given head start…. sensitive issue to ‘poor’ people.
Look like the spin doctor are back in action again.
The ultimate aim, the super majority 99% poor people shall remain rule over by the 1% rich people.
Thanks for the explanation BigFish. Anyway in today’s environment we have very different attitudes compared to the last time, from cultural studies, many people who are not earning much do not want to be referred to as poor. i think based on Malaysian culture which is not far off from Singapore’s very own, this impact would not only prove to be ridiculous but degrading as well, in today’s “water face” society. Imagine this, I’d know exactly how poor or rich anyone is just by observing who goes to the “poor lane” and who goes to the “rich lane”.
Forgive me if you do not understand what i mean but my main point is that this is 100% ridiculous, does anyone know of other countries that has the same implementation? I mean there has got to be a better strategy that can go into saving soaring fuel prices. wow… the G just gets more and more unfair year after year, and questioning whatever the G does will only get you locked up so what’s the point of having a parliament at all? the irony… believe me the G takes the phrase “the world is never fair” seriously. This is the world’s biggest joke.
Hey! I am a poor man. I am earning less than RM500 per month. I am providing car fuel filling service. Pass me your key and $….
its better for G to scrap this plan and create other plan.i believe if this continues,it can bring chaos to country..
foreign cars like singaporean and thais shouldnt be subsidized when they pump in malaysian gas stations. in my opinion, foreign cars can be easily detected by their plate numbers regardless the nationality of drivers or its passenger.
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nanashisan said,
November 10, 2007 @ 10:29 pm
foreign cars like singaporean and thais shouldnt be subsidized when they pump in malaysian gas stations. in my opinion, foreign cars can be easily detected by their plate numbers regardless the nationality of drivers or its passenger.
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i agree with u,but this will create other problem.there will be malaysian people that want to “help” foreign car to buy petrol at subsidized price.this already happen and our G didnt put enough effort to block this activites.
wanna know how they’ll implement it?
go find ur electricity bills and figure it out, that’s what they mean by helping the poor and charging more on the rich, since motorbikes uses less litre and cars uses more litre, that’s the logic they’re going to use i assume
stupid idea came from stupid people
stupi_d idea came from stupid people
This is what happen when the G is too comfort, no competition from other party, even they let you win, you will not rule the country, see the G is very smart, no democracy, power crazy got la, NEP = pampering.
Asalamualaikum/Hello,
Dear citizens of Malaysia, did you know, that Malaysia have a lot of ‘potential fuel’ reservoirs which aren’t yet explored and mapped? I’m talking about the coastlines along Sarawak, Sabah and Kelantan. Yes, the black gold are over there and yet we still import fuel from outside (and the lowest grade as they speak), they give numerous reasons such as the OPEC (oil producers alliance pack) treaty which limits barrels/day that could be produced by members of the alliance and other unacceptable reasons. Heck, I’m not sure if Malaysia is the official or observer of the OPEC alliance (other than those Middle East countries, obviously Malaysia ain’t a big player). Maybe forumers in here whom are familiar with oil and gas industry could give us a little bit info on these matters.
On the other hand, other than our natural resources being mismanaged by certain inexperience individuals (or should I say conflict of interest), I’m sure another fuel increase will benefit certain parties which are playing behind the curtain. Honestly, for rich people (high-income group), if you could own a Beemer or a Merc, it ain’t a big problem paying more for gas. The ones who would be suffering are the lower-income group followed by the middle-income group. In Japan, the public transportation is so efficient, the Japanese hardly complains about fuel gas increase because they have other alternatives (bus, bullet trains). Unfortunately in Malaysia, our public transport is still NOT efficient. Heck, not even 50% at most places. I don’t know if you’ve been to UK, did you know you could get a bus ride, and only A BUS RIDE to go anywhere from the countryside directly to London. No hopping multiple buses, just one bus. As oppose to our transportation system, you’ll need to hop on multiple buses just to get somewhere within KL! We need to upgrade our LRTs and Monorails and Trains (in other words add more frequencies and carriages and please upgrade those old-age trains KTM). There’s NO way for us to hinder fuel price increase, but the goverment could prepare a workable master plan to upgrade our current transportation system and not just another silly-“janji-manis” talks. Afterall, election just around the corner, isn’t it?
Other alternatives such as NGVs, Hydrogen-fuel, Kelapa-Sawit fuel (biodiesel), worst come worse we could use Nuclear Powered Cars (no need to worry about refueling for at least 100 years or so). These alternatives have been there for the last 20 years, the world have been so dependable to Petrol and Diesel, it’s just the matter of mindset, are you willing to pay more for Research and Development and are you willing to sacrifice more for the future? This thought goes to the major local car-makers out there and who knows someday, maybe a “Kampung Engineer” could come out with a briliant car that uses these alternative fuels. When NASA Astronaut Neil Armstrong said to the world, “I want to go to the Moon”, everybody laughs at him and thinks he’s a nut. But when he managed to land on the moon with that Lunar Lander, then he’s the one laughing back at them way up there. Good guys finish last. Good guys always get the last laugh. Heck, bad guys sucks till the very end. Think about it.
If you wanna draw a line between the reach, there are few criteria to follow such as your income, short/long term assets and etc. But to evaluate your total wealth for each people in this country is almost impossible.It will bring additional cost to the G’s administrtion cost and at that time the G will find other sources to compensate for that………..Yup higher taxes and lower subsidies.
And the other thing, if total weath has been evaluated, another problem will arise.For example A total wealth rm3000 and B total wealth rm3001 and if the G policy stated that poor is defined as “less or same with rm3000” and rich as “above rm3000”. By definition, B is rich and A is poor by a ringgit.
So when it comes to that, it ignores the middle class.This evaluation has to be made on a subjective approach.Its like defining tall or short people in height.
As another poster has said, this is just to buy votes.
They are in damage control mode after the recent political mess ups…perhaps they will come up with anything to help themselves.
I hope malaysians are not as gullible as that (but then again, seeing how the country is run, perhaps we are)
Yeah you guys are right. What a mess !!
Do you guys still remember a few years back then when the government announced that it subsided RM 12 billions from the petrol subsidy to ‘boost’ public transport efficiency mainly in KL ? So what has happened to that bloody thing ?
Have you guys noted any resounding success and progress with Malaysia’s public transport ? Sheesh…
Yesterday, the PM said they might probably introduce two-tier petrol subsidy system. And i am doubtful whether he has any idea of what he was talking about.
While today one deputy minister cited that they might resort to increasing road tax primarily for luxury high powered vehicle. Well even though this idea sounds pretty acceptable to me, i hope next time those in the G should rather draw solid idea with proper plans at first before coming out to public and mumbling with something they even don’t have any idea about the implementation. Do your homework first before wanna show-off to the world that you are smart chap. Luckily they are in Malaysia…if in Japan, those morons will be put ashamed to resignation and bombarded with nationwide wraths.
its just another way to earn money from rakyat!
cronies would earn either from Petrol subsidies, Diesel subsidies, Taxi permit, Bus permit, LRT construction & etc… just from this pocket to the other… its a karma!
should abolish both of these subsidies and let car tax-free and permitless public transport!!
This has to the most stupidest plan ever conceive by G. How do they check a person’s income? From the number of properties owned? Or by the number of cars owned? Or by the type of cars owned?
What if a person earning RM 100k per year driving a locally-made Wira 1.5A? Does that qualify him or her being poor? What about a person driving an old BMW 730i (E32) earning a mere RM 50k per year? Does that qualify him or her being rich?
How is the G going to monitor this? As we all know, every plan they come with always backfired easily. M’sians aren’t dumb. We have evolved to the point we can question the G for every mistakes they make.
I say one thing only… do away with fuel subsidies and while many people won’t be happy about it, it will eventually settle down. Of course, those who really can’t afford fuel-guzzling 2000cc cars will trade them for something smaller or fuel efficient. The second hand market will be flooded with cheap higher cc cars.
what a crap and stupid decision frm G…i dun agree wit some of u said that ppl who own beemer and merc no prob by pay more for gas…thats not fair…if u said so…wut abt the middle ppl who buy the merc or beemer arnd 50 to 60k???are they no prob to pay more for gas???are they rich???no…dats nonsense…plz…dun some of u set ur mind dat ppl who rich and can afford xpensive car gt no prob with the fuel increament….wat a crap…what abt uae or bahrain…u can afford audi or merc or beemer…and ur fuel budget per month arnd RM50 only….the only problem is our G…CORRUPTION…CRONIES
Dumb ass with a dumb ideas. Cut the crap G
nanashisan said,
November 10, 2007 @ 10:29 pm
foreign cars like singaporean and thais shouldnt be subsidized when they pump in malaysian gas stations. in my opinion, foreign cars can be easily detected by their plate numbers regardless the nationality of drivers or its passenger.
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Should stop only the Thais as they are here to make bux while the Kiasu ppl are here to spend.
After the election, guess everything will be in high prices time.
That was a idea around here to put info into ID card or other to identifier…
If I been classifier as high earner but driving a Kancil, an I classifier as “Rich”.
If I been classifier as low earner but driving a Merc or BMW…an I classifier as “Poor”
If I been classifier as mid level, but whether drive Kancil or BMW, than what?
Dear ppl here, i think the government will most probably will use the idea of sensor on our number plate which may soon be introduce to all of our cars, by then is a big amount of money to invest by all the petrol station operators i dun know would this be an easier and direct way and less troublesome way to determine who is richer and who is not…. so i’m not sure will there be any more possible loopholes if this is the way the G is choosing… guys any idea?
Who is classify as “rich” or “poor”?
1. How about those filthy rich have MyVi for their maid or as 5th or 6th car for their daughter to drive?
2. How about the Chinaman apek tauke, many of them especially from small town still driving Proton cars.
3. How about “poor” people like driver of filthy rich people. Do they go to “poor lane” at petrol station when fill up their boss car.
4. How about “rich” loan shark or pimp who drive big car?
5. How about rich son earn nothing but enjoy their parent richness?
6. For those who married 4 wives or more, do they classify as “rich”?
7. For those 15 year BMW car owner who stay in flat, do they consider as rich?
8. The final verdict is this idea is a total joke for the run up to GE!
This is indeed ridiculous…not sure who is actually benefit from all of these…
Sure, it is not Rakyat!!!
Make this be a consumption tax !! The more you use, the more you pay.
Just raise the price of fuel and give each working person ( that is EPF members ) a tax rebat for singles as well as families. The corresponding increase in transport ( and all others ) will make operators ( transporters, taxis, bus companies etc ) more efficient ( just look at Air Asia and MAS ) . The hike in consumers prices can be offset by the rebates to all tax payers and maybe with students / pensioners / low income groups concession cards for public transport ? The millions in fuel sudsidies can be saved and channelled to real people !! of course that will put the smugglers out of business, save more money because the customs will not have to spend time to catch these people. In turn, this will reduce the manpower requirement and reduce the civil service too.
Read my new book to over come this problem… “Rich Driver, Poor Driver… the Ways to Con Your Government’s Ass for Cheaper Fuel”. It will be out soon at all major bookstores nationwide. :)
Just a quick fact gap here. NGV is subsidised by Petronas, as also gas to power plants. If u want to make NGV a common item, then all petrol outlets should also supply NGV. So do we want Petronas to pay all major producer (Shell/Mobil/etc) for subsidy?
I like the ybng idea, however income tax returns are painfully slow, and its not on monthly basis like your pay.
Another pathetic idea!!
Has anyone heard of such a system before???
How is it going to be implemented in Malaysia. Well,
1). All proton owners get fuel subsidy?
2) Non proton owners buy fuel according to global prices??
Let’s just wait and see what the G has in mind.
(Note: I still stick to my opinion that PETRONAS is the biggest clown in the entire scenario, pulling the strings behind the PM in every turn.)
Abolishment of fuel subsidy = abolishment of NAP and tolls?
Do our G of the day dare to make it happen?
Good plan BigFish.( Abolish NAP and toll, after abolishing FUEL subsidies )
Let’s all PRAY (in our own faiths) for such an act!
Seriously, if Oil prices rises and nothing is done to the above, you guys better be ready for the EARN more; or else……!!!!
Does this proposal make sense? In the face of the generally held perception among the middle class that this is another stupid attention grabbing initiative for the government, I beg to differ. This proposal can be made to work, and yes it does make social and economic sense to implement. Especially for the lower income section of the population this is one effort which could make a significant difference in their burden of existence.
Petrol remains the fuel for the majority of cars within Malaysia. Alternative fuel sources, e.g. NGV, hydrogen or electric either require a steep initial investment or remain in the domain of higher end and hence more expensive vehicles. This means that for the large majority of Malaysians, and especially so for the lower income segment, petrol is an essential item if they have to commute.
The Worries of the Poor
For the lower income segment, this problem is further compounded by the fact that by virtue of being poor, they tend to live in low cost housing. Housing cost is very much so location dependent. Low cost housing therefore implies a more considerable distance to amenities and also to social centers where work can often be found. Hence, poor people, because they can’t pay for housing closer to commercial or service centers where their jobs are located thereby have to commute further to their place of employment. In addition to that the distance to social amenities essential in city life such as their children’s schools is also increased. What all this adds up too is an increased burden in terms of fuel cost just to survive.
On a second level, if we were to represent the nett income of a family to a pie, richer families naturally have a larger pie to start with. Now assuming in an ideal case scenario that a rich and a poor family have exactly the same commuting needs and use exactly the same vehicle (mind you that is not the case as proved earlier. note too that we’re talking about needs essential for maintaining a family.) Their petrol cost will be exactly the same i.e. it will take a chunk out of each pie that is exactly the same. However, the effect on both families will still be significantly different. This is because the rich family starts out with a bigger pie already i.e. has more monetary resources available. Hence if you take a same sized piece out from each pie, the smaller pie will logically lose more of it’s total pie value. [For those who don’t understand the pie illustration, if the rich person has RM1000 of income per month, and the poor has RM250, but the both have to pay RM50 for petrol, that means 20% of the poor person’s income but only 5% of the rich person’s income. ]
Now, bringing this back to the real world, those of you who have studied economics will understand that needs taper off at a certain level. Within the Malaysian context, for a rich or middle income family then, the rest of the income above the needs level is essentially disposable income. For a low income family however, the needs level is often almost parallel with their nett income on a monthly basis. Increasing the price of an essential item such as fuel will have different effects on the spending habits of low income families vs those of higher income levels. This is because if they need to spend more on fuel, for a high income family, this would mean a little less disposable income i.e. less movie trips, less overseas holidays, but for a low income family, this means less income available to meet their needs i.e. less money for medicine, food, even utilities. Henceforth, an increase in price level of fuel which is an essential will result in a significant degradation of quality of life for the poor.
The Solution
Which brings us to the question, is there a way where this can be implemented? I believe yes, an over-the-dinner-table talk with my dad yielded this result.
Essential to the functioning of any such plan would be a mechanism that would be able to fit these requirements as listed below. Roughly,
i) method of determining income
ii) method of linking income level to mechanism for dispensing of subsidy
iii) mechanism for dispensing subsidy which is least prone to abuse
The mechanism works like this. Using the RTD as the department for the dispensation of subsidies. And proof of income level can be income declaration statements available from the Inland Revenue Board. The mechanism of providing the subsidy will be a debit card only useable for fuel at petrol stations.
Why the RTD and why a debit card?
One of the main problems that would face the government would be how to allocate the subsidy to those who actually need it and would use it rather than reselling it to the rich. The RTD is the one institution in the country that would know what type of vehicle a registrant is using and how many vehicles the registrant has. Hence, a low income candidate would only be given the subsidy if they come to the counter with their income declaration statement, and the RTD would only give out the subsidy if it can be proven that they own a vehicle. Different levels of subsidy for motorbikes and cars would be provided. Perhaps RM100 per month for a car and RM 20 a month for motorbikes. The debit card would be recharged when the candidate comes to renew the registration of their vehicles (a yearly affair for most people.) This essentially puts into place a check and balance at a reasonable time period. The level of subsidy would be fixed for each family, i.e. RM100 a month no matter how many cars (which should be only 1 for low income families) you might happen to own.
Making a difference
Modern society prides itself on it’s morality, on it’s civility towards it’s citizens. Every human deserves the basic right of a reasonable quality of life. Put yourself in the shoes of the office clerk whose only thought everyday is how to feed her 3 children at home. Put yourself in the shoes of the factory worker whose heart aches desperately because he knows he will not be able to pay his child’s school fees. Put yourself in the shoes of the pensioner who has served his nation for 30 years but cannot now afford to visit a doctor. Don’t they deserve something better?
Slowly reduce the subsidies. At the same time slowly reduce the roadtax. Until at one point they’re both abolished alltogether.
Then it’s fair. If you drive a lot then you pay a lot for fuel. If you buy a fuel-guzzling vehicle then you’ll obviously use more fuel. Why should one pay for road taxes if a car is only driven once in a while (ie, old cars, classics, etc).
Guys, the election is just around the corner and 2 thing crops up toll hike and fuel price… anyway its either they announce it before or after the election. So cast your vote wisely… what I can think of is that they can make the pump charge just like a taxi meter, where it will charge you the fist 40L at xRM and the subsequent will be charge at higher rate… since small car just have a small fueltank not more than 40L.. and I think this would be fair enough..
Either stop at 40L or fill up when the tank is halfway down…easy…
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charge you the fist 40L at xRM and the subsequent will be charge at higher rate… since small car just have a small fueltank not more than 40L.. and I think this would be fair enough..
haha.. what a joke from our G!!
not sure about you guys but i think removing the subsidy will be a great idea for all these crap. if our G has to subsidy billion of ringgit on petrol then with the money, we can have a better public transport.
but to charge more on rich ppl are just the dumpest idea.
who started the idea? oh.. ya.. the same idiot who always talk crap.
too bad.. he should just study in local uni.
why waste money study oversea but cannot even think???
at least this is 1 thing i support them 4 doing .
wont happen, wont work, period!