With some reports claiming that Proton will offload 40% of wholly-owned subsidiary Lotus to the British brand’s management team, Proton Holdings Bhd has reiterated that Lotus Group International Ltd is not for sale at this point in time. The national carmaker said this in a filing to Bursa Malaysia.
Proton said that it had over the years received several unsolicited offers for a stake in Lotus and had taken cognisance of such offers. The statement added that Lotus would continue to be a strategic entity within Proton and its technology catalyst. However, as a proactive business entity, it said Proton would continue to initiate and consider viable business opportunities and arrangements which would benefit and add value to the group’s interests.
Proton would make relevant announcements at an appropriate time, the statement added. Notice that Lotus is not for sale only “at this point in time” which could also mean that a sale might be considered later on. That’s just pure speculation of course, but should the engineering experts be on the market, there will be no shortage of takers.
Meanwhile, Lotus is set for a brand relaunch, which could be presented at the Paris Motor Show in October. The maker of the Elise and Evora has hired McCann Erickson Central to create a new brand identity, “web solutions” for both Lotus Cars and Lotus Engineering, support materials, a new brochure suite and support for the Paris launch.
Looking to sell your car? Sell it with Carro.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Do Not Sell Off LOTUS!
ya jgn jual. Lotus harta plg bernilai milik Proton. Kalau jual Lotus lingkuplah Proton sbb Proton tak boleh lg guna kelebihan Lotus. Juga tak boleh jual Proton di negara lain dgn imej Lotus
lotus cars sendiri pun tak jalan how to help sell more proton cars?
di sesetengah negara Proton guna imej Lotus untuk naikkan jualan Proton. di Malaysia pun sama kalau tengok iklan. ride and handling by Lotus dll. Imagine tanpa Lotus
You have to understand that the benefits Proton gained from Lotus is not the sales of cars but the new technology developed by Lotus and the brand associated to it. Do you think a Chinese automaker would re-badged Gen2 as their own if it was “just Proton”?
lotus cars sells very well and ranked amongst the elite sports car on other country..(malaysia tax here tax there ridiculous price sure la less people buy it)….
-sure there are more bad than good if proton sell out LOTUS….
one word…no matter what happen…don’t let it go…
u sure? which country is that? then why do i have ppl working for proton telling lotus are making a loss and selling less than a 100 cars annually?
‘August 2009 UK Lotus sales down 58.82%’
http://lotusenthusiast.net/2009/09/august-2009-uk-lotus-sales-down-58-82.html
‘September 2009 UK Lotus sales down 38.64%’
http://lotusenthusiast.net/2009/10/september-2009-uk-lotus-sales-down-38-64.html
The only reason for Proton to keep Lotus:
Lotus triumphs in British Engineering Excellence Awards
http://lotusenthusiast.net/2009/10/lotus-triumphs-in-british-engineering-excellence-awards.html
Proton should keep it……
this is a good stand on Lotus, but hey why not test the water and see how things pan out?
i mean someone try put some dollars on offer for Lotus. last time it didnt work for UM. but it did work for MV Augusta.
keh keh keh
even if we lost money, we wont sell, we got tonnes of money from malaysian tax payer to pay for this.
without lotus, proton is meaning less anymore.
no quality, no reliability, not fuel saving, not save, and if without lotus handling, this is sheet metal!!! so, we cannot sell lotus!!!!
1 malaysia
Man…
‘Lotus Handling’ is now as good as the sticker itself only lah…
Ask Raja Drift M’sia lah…
Raja Drift??tengku djan right??
of course he fully support Proton because he’s Tengku Mahaleel son…Proton’s ex-CEO..
have u drive proton lately? dun compared proton with myvi in terms of handling. sure proton will win by a mile!!!
compared to old proton and new proton, new one with the lotus handling is the best.. i’ve drive my uncle and my granny old saga, compared to my aunty gen-2 and my friend Neo, the new one have better handilng…
This is all mamakthir’s mastermind. As long he still lives , we wont see any changes in proton or malaysia due to the ridiculous “national pride” and ego
I am quite agree with that statement… to much politic here & there (vendors/suppliers) until jeopardizing Proton current & future… Let Proton be a company, not a place for politicians to ‘dig’ money from it… Go PROTON!!!
Are sure we will see some changes in Proton if he die? How you are confident with your statement?
i’m confident…he just a dictator
As far as I know him, he was just the person who ‘sign the document’, than it’s totally up to the person who shoulder the paper, who some we could finally found were clowns/biawak hidup.
if he indeed a dictator…he will be the best dictator in the whole world coz his thinking make malaysia today, one of most prosper country, most of us are his product etc….
can u answer me why others thinking ‘malaysia’ is prosper instead malaysia suffer bankruptcy in 1998??Malaysia hav large debt, small Forex reserves and serious missmanagement??
ya ya ya ya ya
whatever
credit where it dues, dude
it was him that had the balls to grope, and bring ‘home’ one of the legendary British engineering firms. its more of a strategic, long term planning on the acquisition of Lotus, rather than ego. or whatever shite that stink u mentioned. do some reading kid.
and ah,
national pride. the koreans were ‘pushed to be proud’ of the korean auto industries with draconian protection acts in the 60s and 70s. what say u?
gulp?
korean also hav protect their own automotive industry..the questions is;
a)did korean cars industry led by politician cronies??
b) did korean automotive start using public fund or government fund??
c) did korean make their car in par below quality??
d)did korean make car that make their ‘rakyat’ mati tersepit in 40-50km/h collision??
did korean have stupid people like you????
c) did korean make their car in par below quality??
d)did korean make car that make their ‘rakyat’ mati tersepit in 40-50km/h collision??
Kia Picanto…..
hyundai atos….
many more….
Kia Picanto and Hyundai atos can make passenger mati tersepit at 40km/h collisions…seems it new fatwa..for picanto alone, In its EuroNCAP crash tests, the Picanto earned three out of five stars for its adult occupant safety rating and four out of five for children occupant safety..
i know why proton avoid to test…maybe 1/5 star maybe..
At least Kia manage to improve itself along the years. As far as proton is concerned, once the chinese and indian manufacturers catch up… that’s it. we’ll be left in the dust.
Proton needs a change of “middle management”.
Typically with all large org change, they replace folks at the very top. And folks at the very bottom.. but the hulubalang hulubalang istana sultan lama still there korek hidung jaga pintu.
Just get tough, and bring in new blood at the middle, change will come.
a) no politician but they bribe the gov
b) they r not gov company..thats y they bribe gov people
c) yup pre-2000
d) maybe half true
At least without ‘Lotus’ Hyundai can sell tonnes of car in the USA.
it’s sarcasm questions..no need to answer referring the korean automotive industry..haiyoo
sarcasm or not, the questions already answered.
i think (c) is weakest question..but others is ‘unique’ characteristic of malaysian automotive rather than other nation’s automotive..
this is why i like forums. because everyone can say their piece. in the end, the truth definitely will prevail, but if only we want to see it.
1. proton is in bad management. if selling something for 1 euro after buying it at 300RM million is considered ‘bad management’, i agree 100%. for buying lotus in the 1998? nope. it was a splendid acquisition. and it still is.
2. protection. u like it or not Dr kerkovian, imphotep, and hirumaKecil, u have to accept protectionism exist. thats the first thing i want u all to abide, before we go on and on about proton vs kia.
a bit fact for u guys. ‘Pony’ was the first korean developed vehicle where parts been sourced from all over the world including Italdesign, Perkinson, Mitsubishi, and even they used funds from Barclay Bank. nothing related at all, but it was a fact that the entirely Korean made vehicle arrived, 20 years after Sibal. if you 3 care to find some valuable knowledge, then u will know what i am on about on protectionism by governments. but till u guys do so, i would end this fact right here. no point going on if u guys know nothing.
imbhotep goes on and on about Picanto and Atos, but u should go before that. to make it fairer, compare models from Kia and Proton at the 25th year they operate. well, that also not very fair cause in the 70s, no new technologies like we have now, but since u were damned on kia vs proton, then u should do so and thankful that proton was ahead full head to toe compare to kia last time.
imbhotep, people of korea was very angry as well when the government did the protectionism acts which among of acts was NO FOREIGN MODEL permitted sale in any inch of korean land. but they were ‘pushed’ by such draconian law and the resistance died when the first generation that gone very angry like u, died as well. with such act, kia accumulated big revenue and was doing very well before it succumbed in middle 90s. well, u have serious readings to do if we are to embarked on a discussion on this.
hirumaKecil,
u have no value of discussion. but thanks, i am not stupid. i can read and understand quite a number of lingua. and FYI, i bought foreign made cars. the only different between us is that, I GET ON WITH MY LIFE and not complaining a thing at all. i decided that i have much more important matters to do and get on with it.
Dr Kervokian,
u are a proof that somebody been using his/her brain. proton needs to go forward. RnD in very good but a bit very late i think. and in order to go forward, it cant depend on government funds. this business needs a lot of money. and thats why the new management under pak syed, is agresively exporting cars to parts of the world that proton can sell.
and pak syed also stressed out the importance of getting a routine life cycle of vehicles models which the past management failed to do (WIra production ended after 10 years?) so for doing this, proton needs money and it comes from us. or u. the customers that buy its cars.
Well done drMpower.
I read somewhere, long ago, that their “cintailah barangan tempatan” campaign (brainwashing?) was so effective that it was “embarassing” and not patriotic to own foreign cars. Of course, things have changed now.
Those interested to read more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_South_Korea
(Not the best reference in the world but concise and easy to understand)
Renong- closed
Perwaja- closed
Proton????!!!- will be close
sime darby – loss
pos malaysia – loss
Plus – Loss – rely on govt susidies.
Penang Bridge – Loss – want to increase too charges
Penang Ferry – Loss
Everything under Federal also loss.
agree..too many loss, too many bailout
dude pls correct your statement…..
Perwaja= still operate…..
haiyo..still operate after super heavy bailout????!!LOL gov is debt-made machine.. especially 90’s era…….
dude imbhotep…i’m working at that company u mention it…so dont do some b*lls**t statement…..tq….
fact is fact dude..either u like or not
without his “mastermind”…Proton wouldn’t even exist…so please stop moaning like a retarded stupid person…
u r the man!
Now I know why VW is so interested with Proton….
Ada udang di sebalik batu…
I thk Lotus is one of VW reason
Lotus is nothing compare to what the Germans already have in their hands.
the hidden agenda is the proton’s high tech manufacturing plant. and of course CKD ‘badge’
Newspaper articles clearly stated Lotus is a drain on Proton’s profits.
Now, who ever said that Lotus is profitable???
lotus as a group was never profitable, even for its previous owners.. to me, the gem in the whole group is its engineering arm, which does lots of secret jobs for many other car manufacturers.. some famous ‘rumoured customers’ are the mighty nissan GTR, to even the hummer.
there’s no profit having a sport car stable anywhere…
even buggati suck blood from VW and lambo suck blood from Audi and VW.. but they still keep it, because of added value of having such thing.
there’s 5 years turnaround plan for Lotus. and for now this is successfull. google it up!
saya rasa tak penting Lotus bawa keuntungan atau tidak. Tp yg lebih penting imej Lotus dlm membantu Proton termasuk untuk pasaran negera sendiri. Cuba fikir tanpa bantuan Lotus dalam chasis, ride and handling plus harga kereta Kia yang makin murah, apakah Proton boleh survive?
so Lotus patut terus bersama Proton
thats one of the reasons MV Augusta was acquired back in the early 2000. apart from technology transfer capacity, brand expansion was another agenda on the menu. of course the company was in red. big red.
but who wants to sell a profitable company in the first place? at such price? no. inflated price, maybe. but logically, profiting companies are pretty hard to be bought over.
not many in this region appreciate MV Augusta, but in europe it is worshiped. along with the Ducatis and most big name bike makers.
and yeah of course Dollah sold it for mere 1 euro. he had not had that kind of brain, hadnt he? dah la jual pade orang luar, if jual kat orang dalam or something, atleast it would be still OURS.
Would proton be able to prosper without the ‘tuned by Lotus’ badge on their car?
Maybe it is Lotus Curry House at Jalan TAR to be sold. Someone has mishear it. :-)
hmmm..VW malaysia wants to buy the Lotus Curry House shop lot and turn it into VW showroom
There’s no rumour on VW keen to buy Lotus anyway? It didn’t even mention who the party are keen to buy the 40% Lotus stake?
“Mendukung biawak hidup” emm..betulke perumpamaan ini?? ada sesiapa lebih arif. Please..please advise….
ask Karam Singh Walia..he’s an expert
Lotus has different management with Proton . In other words, Proton don’t control entirely…Only some parts.
Furthermore, Lotus only release performance cars which the engine was sourced from Toyota. With poor marketing and branding in some countries, how do you expect Lotus to do well internationally?
i think bcos proton is not fully utilizing lotus,or thy dont know how to incorporate lotus into proton …..lotus wont command a high price . so mite as well keep it n find a new biz strategy for it to help it bring up proton
closed down lotus base in UK and pindah ke Malaysia semua equipment > save cost dan dpt lebih byk engineer malaysia dapat beelajar latest teknologi
this one i 100% agree.
and why after more than 10 years buying Lotus, we still not transfer all of them here. or if we do not close Lotus UK plant, at-least bring the technologies here 100%. get them into our cars.
thats boggles me quite a lot.
u see the chinese? those mindless, straight jackett chinese bought Rover? they brought everything back, close the UK plant.
agree with you 100 %. HQ Lotus should moving to Malaysia
if Lotus in Malaysia
1) save labour cost – salary for engineer in Malaysia very very very cheaper compare to UK
2) overhead cost also will be lower ( elcectricity, water cheaper compare to UK )
3) no need send our engineer to UK. save flight ticket and accomodition
4) will be bring much more benefit to our rakyat also our student
5) maybe will make other global OEM setup business in Malaysia
agree same as Bufori…previously handmade in Australia now move to Malaysia . But the catch is Handmade in Malaysia by bangladeshi’s :P
and technology transfer is going to be very much faster
and wider. universities can learn as well. our learning institutions learn oso.
we will not be short of creativity and technical workforce.
Bravo!!! This guy should be sitting in the present air-head alias no brain CEOs place. Unbelievable!! So many years in our local market yet Proton is still at the starting point to many consumers. Can these lazy thinking people who are leading this company listen to the consumers? Still so many problems..
Paul,
How long Proton own Lotus already? More than 10yrs right…
So long as I hope someday there’ll be such a thing like VW with Audi & Lambo & Bugatti, with their cars such as Golf-A3, Jetta-A4, Phaeton-A6, W12 engine-Veyron, RS4 V8-Gallardo etc.
And its still a hope…
If you just hold on your piece of cake trying to cover from anybody trying to snatch it fr you… yes it might be saved, but it will end up rotted and being thrown up in trash also.
Don’t forget that most of the years owning Lotus, that ‘genius’ T Mahaileel was at the helm. He did neither Proton or Lotus any good so it was wasted years IMO.
Why don’t they both combine their ideas,lotus is a sport car manufacturer,while proton is a budget car manufacturer,so why don’t they produce a budget sport car for export model,I just read an article about proton S16 in CarAdvice,many australian said that proton is an underrated brand,they think proton can really produce a good car,then I think proton should combine ideas with lotus to produce a car that people really want,a budget perfomance car,what they have to do now first is quality control,then the engine,that’s all.
Just another ‘silly’ idea from me,because what I see now is,many cars have a good fuel consumption,but lack of proper handling and styling.
Loosing Lotus would mean the end of Proton for export sales. There ends Proton party piece, and would be swarmed by the new found momentum of Chinese marques (not even going to bring the Koreans in, they are well ahead)
But I can’t help it but wonder. at these sort of price points Proton is going for, I would gladly trade in Lotus handling for better reliability and materials….
and I quote James May he would “gladly trade in Lotus handling for some toyota door panels…” But for Proton as a company, its a marketing coup de grace to loose Lotus.
Entah-entah nak build evora pun pinjam duit proton…
it’s correct to say “mendukung biawak hidup” in a situation where you know that something is dangerous and will harm you, but you keep it close to yourself or even carrying it on your shoulder. It’s like holding a time-bomb.
But in this situation, Lotus is definitely no a ‘biawak” but something very important to Proton. They have helped proton in developing campro, cps, hybrid, turbo and also in Emas project.
For me, engineering and R&D division are amongst several departments where you have to spend a lot of money but you can’t see the profit in term of cash flowing in, but rather in the form of technology achievements and break-through that they produced.
But in the end, if u can achieve all these technology but zero income or doing it a loss is that a great achievement overall?
In this business world, even ur technology is louzy but if it can earn a lot money who will survive longer? Proton + Lotus R&D all these years profit or not, u judge it urself.. Those who seek advice from Lotus trieve and success (Nissan, Toyota, Porshe..) But why not Lotus itself?
Why Tun M want to buy Lotus in the first place? If poor management kill lotus previosly.. Do u think that our P1 have good management? Or becoz we have the G $$$ to back it? U think urself..
having a sport car is a loss making business, but with it you build brand image. So companies who want to have a sport car business must have deep pocket.
Good management of people yes! Thats why Lotus still in UK, key personnel not moving.
Good business sense? Not needed here as you sell expertise and not cars.
The one who seeks advice from Lotus do not implement Lotus tech to all their cars, just here and there but having implement some give rise to sell others. Good business stratregy.
There have been attempt to manufacture elise in Malaysia… very bad result.
so, littlefire… are you suggesting that we should use old / outdated technology because we earn a lot of money? that’s implied to Perodua, not the current Proton.
we need to do R&D continuously. R&D not only producing better engines but also find a way to reduce manufacturing cost, reduce tools and parts and many other things which we can only learn from proper R&D. do you think other company will sell their R&D data to you? HELL NO! Proton spent about RM800 millions to develop Waja previously, but they only need RM300 million to develop Persona. Don’t you see the benefit?
and the next waja they are rebadging latest Lancer?! mana lagi R n D?
the rnd do not stop there dickybird, it is channeled to the persona segment. waja have moved to the upper level class in which rebadging is more profitable. it is more on business strategy i guess…
we are so proud to have a national carmaker that still rebadges cars after 25 years? it does not speak very well of our capability or engineering heritage does it? when waja was launched, wah! so megah boleh design and build car sendiri, now balik rebadge?! ish ish, mana nak taruk muka?
the persona platform bukan derive from gen 2 ke? so how much to develop gen 2?
Waja is Proton’s first self-developed car. Sorry for my mistake, according to Motor Trader, almost RM1bil was spent on development of Waja, then RM500mil for Gen2, and the cost reduced further to only RM95mil for Persona. This is the benefit of R&D.
The decision to rebadge Lancer for Waja replacement is due to the fact that Waja and Perdana would has lower volume of sales and it would make economy of scale unachievable. To design and develop Waja replacement not only costly for Proton, but for vendors as well (for new set of tools and machineries). A lot of Gen-2 parts are carried-over to Persona, and it helps to keep cost down for part manufacturers. Furthermore, Proton is busy developing a new model for new market segment (Emas) and also Persona replacement with Giugiaro.
Mitsubishi will also rebadged Persona and Exora, and this will help Proton achieve greater economy of scale for their models.
this is a comment with sense.
it needs big money to do a new, ground up model. i am not pretty sure the actual cost but it is in the region of hundreds of millions.
and u need economic justifications to go develop new models as well.
thats why a lot of makers now doing platform sharing or something where more than 1 model share the same platform.
but on new Waja, i definitely confident it is not only replacing-the-badge engineering. it wont be. they will have quite a lot of exterior/ interior changes.
or the entire new exterior/ interior designs. who knows? but it is a testament that proton is on shoestring budget.
yup, agree with u. it is not an easy job to hv a responsibility to the nation but need to be profitable at the same time.
Nothing wrong in rebadging models, Proton can study them, reverse engineered & implement them to the other mid and low level model. even P2 rebadging models from the last 13yrs, nothing much impact on the RND…
@ drm power, u sure? how much is a lot? at the end of the day, exterior changes are not rengineering just cosmetic. it does not use our engineering ability nor extend it.
which begs the question, why buy a proton knock off (tiruan) when you can buy the real lancer?
Proton is looking for the perfect time to sell Lotus …. for Euro 1 again or maybe this time RM 1 just like how they did it for MV Agusta coz we are 1 Malaysia so everything goes for 1 in Bolehland ….
most comment here are of typical shortsighted Malaysian businessman mentality at its worst.
i say keep lotus…..yeah i’ve been bashing proton for a while but Lotus should be kept. however, what is lacking now is just SYNERGY! really….somehow Proton can’t seem to integrate Lotus into it’s structure effectively…..
i mean Lotus aside from making cars is a great engineering company….however Proton doesn’t seem to be able to integrate too much of these into it’s product….i really don’t understand why…Handling by Lotus? well that’s been around for more than 10 years already (since Satria GTI)…what we want is something new…..
You remember the handling only? do you know that Campro, CPS, Turbo, Hybrid, and Emas are also collaborations between Proton and Lotus? The company also acts as an engineering consultancy, providing engineering development for other car manufacturers. The way I see it, Proton owns Lotus but it remain as stand-alone division which is open to develop engine or platform for other car makers, such as Nissan and GM. It’s kind of similar treatments from VW to Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley, and Bugatti.
For your ‘question’ regarding Proton-Lotus integration, probably we could see it in Emas, in 2 years time.
I wonder what does it mean by handling by Lotus. Looking at the suspensions, basically the setup are similar to all Proton made except for new Proton Saga which is the worst ever. Is it just a gimmick?
you just assume it’s worst because you’re biased. search Australian forum for S16 and you will see most would agree that Saga (S16 in Australia) has very good handling.
and most people here would agree that Vios has terrible handling, and some would describe it like a ‘sampan’!
It seems to me Mofaz, u are bashing all Proton bashers here….hahahaha…1 against 5. Last time 5 against 1 but the other 4 got so fed up with their Protons having to send for repair almost every month that just mentioning Proton will make them vomit. Maybe these ex Proton hardcore fans turning into bashers also. We feel you bro….we are waiting for you to convert to the enlighten side…cheers…
elvis, let him be lah, you cannot make a tiger beer drinker drink carlsberg 1. we will just be susah abit pay for asean cars lo.
i wonder if he has actually driven a vios before or not, probably NOT since he is die hard proton fanboy. at least i can say i have had the pleasure of driving a W140 S class, last gen Civic, my mom’s 16 y.o. wira (who has not? LOL!), renault Clio (Nicole! Papa!), Mondeo SVT (try it in a wintery car park w traction control off, woohoo!) focus (1st and 2nd gen), avanza, audi a4 (sounds like a turbodiesel and a bit nose heavy) and of course the 1st gen Vios. oh yeah, swift sports pun ada, that 1 auto not nice, v thirsty manual sure v much better.
anyway, 1st gen vios a v competent car and only went to workshop for scheduled service only. handles competently but can be fun since i remember feeling like i 4 wheel drifted it once. sweet car that 1.
Hahah..aiya..in his mind he would only think that the saga s16 is the best car in the world already with the “good handling” alone…the vios would also been accused like a “sampan” by him..funny..im seriously doubt if he ever been sit in or driven the toyota vios..totally biased…Well,the aussie only claims that the s16 is a “good” car because they was considering the car price sheet that’s just slightly expensive than a bike in their country…and this profesional sound alike dude imply that the aussie really really love the car and it’s really really so competent enough in the market…It’s so internationally well accepted than a vios,city,sx4…lol…
I think, if you look at Lotus Engineering, their main strength lies in chassis engineering & handling department , which I think in some ways, Proton has already benefited from it .
Powertrain? OK, Proton jointly developed the Campro engine with Lotus. But if you can see at current Lotus modes, they are not even using their own in-house designed engined!! The first Elise was using Rover K series, and the latest Elise & Evora cars are fitted with Toyota’s In line Fours and V6s.
So it’s up to Proton themselves to actually, step up their game to provide world class & high quality cars. Lotus can support, but as I said it’s mainly on the chassis side. Lotus is not known to make cars with high quality or high tech interiors before. Only until recently you saw some improvement , especially in Lotus Evora.
hey, how bout just sell it for a good 1ringgit, then when proton need it back
try to buy from it current owner and see the price,,,,,,,,
Haiya.. stupid malaysians!!!
It is a good news to hear that proton will keep Lotus.. But totally stupid bashers will keep bashing because this title has Proton name…
Again, until Proton is brave enough to face and rectify their issue of internal CRONISM, there will hardly be any change in terms of progress and the ownership of Lotus will never be fully utilised / integrated.
*likes to this*
Malaysia should sell Proton and keep Lotus. Haha.
sell like agusta RM1 , pencapaian didahulakan ….
1 Euro la not MYR.
hah, after 10 years owning lotus n proton still dun hv VVTI technology… just the outdated campro engine. well, u tell me… where is the technology transfer / benefit? i wun buy proton any more cause outdated engine, no 5 star ncap ratings. my target is going for peugeot 3008…. 1.6 gives 156 bhp, turbocharged. this is a 5 star rating
you’re comparing 3008’s turbo to campro? u’re dumb! go buy your dream 3008 and stop being stupid basher. but let me tell you, even campro could get 150hp when turbocharged.
Lotus is well known for sport cars, and you’re expecting a high-rev engine to save fuel like VVTI? VVTI is not powerful, the main idea behind the technology is just to save fuel due to high emission standard in Euro and US. to me, VVTI is a boring/ uninteresting/ unexciting engine.
that is still 6 bhp more than the campro. now in msia, with the rising cost of petrol vvti fuel saving is important, so give me vvti for that any day. high revving campro u nak bawak mana in 1st gear?
as for lotus sports cars, why are they using “boring/ uninteresting/ unexciting” vvti engines from toyota in their powertrains for their elises and evoras? i think u will be dumbfounded by that fact.
This is why I hate arguing with dumb basher. They never think and will always spin my words, even comparing 2 things which have hugeeee differences!
HP produced by turbochaged Campro is yet to be determined, no official data about that engine yet and 150HP is rough estimated figure. Even 6hp different would give you the joy of bashing Proton, right? Well… the actual fact is that 3008 with turbochaged has 150HP only, not 156HP. Please refer to Peugeot website. Without turbocharged, the engine has only 120HP, while Campro CPS has 125HP. Fuel consumption for 3008 is about 7L/100km and for CPS is only 6.4-6.8L/100km.
Of course I’m referring to normal VVT-i engine found in normal passenger cars like Vios, not the dual VVT-i 2GR-FE which is 3.5L, 285HP and could sprint 0-100kmh in 5 seconds found in Evora (Lotus is using its own engine management system in Evora, not Toyota’s)…
I just wish that you learn to rationalize before blindly throw whatever fact you found on the internet.
dual vvti or not, they are vvti, are they not? either vvti type will have variable valve timing which the campro did not have until the cps. the fact remains a supposedly boring engine family is powering a lotus and NOT proton’s own campro. not so boring after all, are they?
and what makes you so high and mighty that opinions that take proton to task are called dumb? if i am dumb than you are blind.
you still think it’s right to compare 1.6L to 3.5L? you’re not just dumb, you’re proud to be dumb. why don’t you just compare it to 8.0L W16 with almost 1000hp from Veyron?
your name should be dickhead.
u miss my point entirely, it is not about the displacement of the engines but the fact toyota engines are used at all. i supposed whe you get vexed about an argument you should start calling the other person names, did proton teach you that? i am sure your mummy didnt.
go ahead n buy ur outdated proton for all i care mofaz… haha! 10 years and still lousy outdated campro engine. really hv no guts to go continental. enuf of this boleh land, whereby u get cheap plastic and outdated engine. me, i am advancing myself…
yeah, i don’t care whatever car you buy either. You don’t have to look down on our local products just because you could afford to buy 3008.
Well, it doesn’t matter even if Campro already 10 years old, it’s still more powerful with 125hp than 3008 without turbocharged 120hp. dickhead would love to make really big deal about the 5hp difference.
ish ish, is that how someone who claims to be learned enough to have a degree and earns so much as to pay income tax behaves when his argument falls flat. start calling ppl names?! so unbecoming and ungentlemanlike such a shame.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.
none of us here look down upon local products, another one of your misconceived arguments. our durians are so much better than any thai -grown rubbish. it is just that we are fed up with proton always flattering to deceive, and failing to live up to expectations of even basic quality in their products. and in the end we have to pay for it, either in govt grants (with our money) or high car prices (due to protectionist tariffs even with the advent of AFTA). so get that in your 2bit noggin and run along boy!
haha, mofaz… c u losing all this while cause u dun hv a case at all… old engine n cheap plastic, still wan to pick up sand n declare winner. for a sore loser, u can keep ur proton all u wan. afterall, it is just cheap plastic n outdated engine
what case?
u guys are condeming proton because proton rebadge lancer, but you said it’s ok for a company with more than 100 years experience a.k.a your beloved peugeot to rebadge mitsu’s. where’s your justification? the only answer i get from dickhead is because they’re french, and we don’t have to argue about that… WTF?? and you consider that a constructive answer? that’s why i’m calling you dickhead, because it seems like you’re not using your real head to think.
zoomzone, i don’t care if i lost this stupid argument with stupid bashers, it’s just you couldn’t accept the fact that campro CPS has 5hp more than Peugeot VTi engine, right?
is it really true that imported cars are using more ‘expensive’ plastic? so you’re paying premium price just because of plastic? i don’t remember Vios having soft plastic for dashboard… and the dashbboard is fugly. previously they mentioned that it’s more ergonomical to put the gauge meter at the center of dashboard but now they give HUD so that driver can put them infront of their stering… their designer is even worse than proton.
yeah, you get the joy of driving expensive cars, but your car depreciate RM60-100k after you finish paying installments?
i already bought 2 very nice houses insted of expensive car.
Guys, I have lots of fun reading MoFaz’s comments here. Bro Dickybird and others made their arguments clear with solid points, on the other hand bro MoFaz was at certain point argued on a lost ground but still tried to defend Proton wholeheartedly. When he can’t argued anymore, here comes the name calling and showing off (how much he earns and how many nice houses he had). I really salute you MoFaz!
Actually nobody will care if MoFaz earns 7k a month or has two nice houses because even an ordinary guy earning 2k per month like me can see that his has been irrational here.
He quoted ‘i already bought 2 very nice houses instead of expensive car’…Maybe he tried to tell us don’t go to buy expensive car, but does he know if it is not because of Proton, Malaysians can buy the currently expensive foreign cars at a much more cheaper price? Ok, government wants to help Proton but unfortunately at the expense of rakyats’ hard earned money, so we hope that Proton can offer us something which is cheap with better quality and reliability but Proton had failed us miserably.
So bro MoFaz please tell us what shall we do?
There is little wonder why there are many Proton bashers, they are simply just want to voice out their unhappiness.
well, jason… that’s because you only see the ‘car’ issue. you failed to rationalise other things which are much more important. see if Gov really abolish all subsidies, whether you still care so much about car.
everybody tend to blame proton, and occasionally perodua for high car price in Malaysia. but i do believe even without Proton, we still can’t get cheaper car here. try let PKR-DAP-PAS be Gov and see whether they can change that, plus maintaining our current subsidies.
MoFaz, I thought you were defending Proton all this while? If we were not to talk about ‘car’ issue then what else were we arguing here? Please don’t drag other issues like subsidy and politics into the picture. They might be more important than the ‘car’ but are not relevant here.
You said “but i do believe even without Proton, we still can’t get cheaper car here”, this is merely your own speculation, however I was, and many people here were pointing at the actual fact, a reality that we are ALREADY not getting cheaper car here because of the PROTON. Can you just be a bit more realistic and accept that the damage has been done and is caused by the PROTON, non-other than the local car manufacturer which was once a pride but now a burden to the country and the rakyat?
Honda, Toyota, Hyundai & Kia become successful due to their Gov protection, and they took more than 50 years to achieve their current strength, and still, they receive subsidies for EV and hybrid they sold.
No import cars were allowed in Korea previously, and it’s still hard to bring them in due to their protectionism. South Korea shipped about 700,000 cars to the US last year while importing 5,000 American cars. And believe it or not, some of the cars were Hyundai cars which were made in America. South Korean consumers have become increasingly aware of the fact that they have to pay 40 percent more for the Genesis sedan than American consumers. It’s cheaper to buy and import them from US than locally made in Korea.
Japanese protectionism is far greater. They even claimed that ski boards made overseas are not suitable for Japanese snow… reallyyyyy???
Previously, we export raw rubber, tin and many more agricultural products and re-import finished products like tyres and this has caused imbalanced trade (we export raw materials cheaper, but had to import back at higher price, kind of similar with M’sia-S’pore water deal). That’s why Malaysia transformed from agriculture to industrial country, and we produced the end products ourselves.
Proton & Perodua produced close to 300,000 cars per year. If we import 300,000 cars priced RM30,000 each, that’s easily RM9bil out. If RM50,000 each, the import shoot up to RM15bil. So, without Proton & Perodua, our trade (import-export) will be greatly imbalanced. Thailand has already facing this situation before and they banned car import in 1980s due to trade deficit. Greece went bankrupt due to trade deficit too. Without Proton & Perodua, we might have much higher import tax to discourage car import, as what Vietnam is doing now. Everybody will be forced to use public transports. But with fewer cars on the road, public transports could have greater efficiency, and our 20,000 skilled workers currently working in Proton & Perodua could be working in Singapore now, paying income tax to Singapore but enjoying subsidies in Malaysia. Isn’t that great?
I’m not defending Proton for their low quality works previously. I’m defending them because I see them improving and keep improving now. And also for the fact that they’re created to keep our economy in balance and by now they could have good strategies to go Global. I still have faith in Proton, and Malaysia.
Just as other nations did use protectionist measures to advance their industrial capacity, so did we. but why is it nobody is at laughing at korean cars anymore and our protons are still a joke at home and unable to sell abroad?!
greece went bankrupt for a whole host of reasons including corruption, a bloated welfare system, fiscal ill-discipline and i fail to see how that relates to our discussion on proton.
face facts and leave out your frothy what-if imaginings of if we had no proton.
news from utusan “Proton lancarkan model baru tidak lama lagi”
is it the new waja lancer or the persona R ?
http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/info.asp?y=2010&dt=0610&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Korporat&pg=ko_02.htm
new waja. dah lapuk dah berita ni, lama gila menanti. harga rm 70 k – rm 80 k. enjin 1.8 dan 2.0. i thk good buy in malaysia
still proud handling by lotus? but rebadge like perodua….what different? haha…
should hold on to Lotus for their engineering expertise. knowledge transfer is always good for R&D work. i don’t think the boys at Proton have the expertise yet. makes me wonder if ‘R3’ is fully Malaysian or are there some influence from Lotus.
agreed, lotus should be kept. R3 is like a bit redundant lah.
aya… even Peugeot rebadge Mitsubishi. why don’t you send email to Peugeot and ask them why they rebadge others eventhough they have been producing cars for more than 100 years?
we are malaysian ma, the govt tells us THIS proton is our national carmaker ma and we should be proud of it since it means we can do so many things now! and we are supposed to believe everything they say. 1st we give birth to waja 1, now jadikan lancer as anak angkat waja2?! how can? suddenly we have no ability to create our own car anymore?
as for peugeot, what for mau tulis email to them, they are perancis ma, we always other country not jaga tepi kain kita apasal kita nak menyibuk di paris?
Pride can only go on for during good times. But come bad times, PROTON AGAIN AND AGAIN BEG MONEY FROM BEE END TO BAILOUT. Then, if sells bad, proposed SCARPPING OLD BUT GOOD CONDITION CARS and IRRATIONAL DUTIES TAX FOR FOREIGN BRANDS. If cronies vendors not happy sells of spare parts slow, ASKED GOMEN TO BAN USED PARTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.
I hate bashers. They only know to hentam Proton but blindly accept what other car makers are doing. Some even went to UK and Australian forums just to bash Proton. It’s very silly when I see all those negative comments they wrote were given negative rating by Australian readers and eventually hidden from the forum.
You guys really have nothing better to do?
maybe they’ve been paid to do so…. that’s why they are actively replying all the messages here…. learn from the best (DSAI) i think…
and u just blindly accept what goes in proton and what they churn out. u are the one who have taken on the fools’ errand of defending proton, you should ask yourself the same question.
do you think someone with degree and earn 7k a fool?
dude dickybird…..if uhate so much the name PROTON…why u should bother by it…..just ignore it la…..that’s simple thing u can do….psshhhh…GET A LIFE dude..
Such a naive comment.
I love suck-ups. They only love Proton and are blindly accepting whatever Proton is doing. Some even went to UK and Australian forums just to defend Proton. It’s very silly when I see how pathetic they look defending Proton and even have the capability of making such a one-dimensional comment like this just proves their immaturity.
You really have nothing better to do MoFaz?
Pun intended.
have you ever see my nick on any foreign forum? i only read to get unbiased review, unlike you guys who never bother learning but stupidly accept anything, especially the negative elements.
dude seriously…..can u show me n mofaz n all malaysia what u can do to make a proton better?…dont talk bout shut it down….i’m waiting your plan that can bring all malaysia n proton lover’s satisfy with your ideas..perhaps…
@mofaz. a fool is a fool whether he has degree or not. a fool is a fool whether he makes 7k more or less, witness the story of the Emperor’s New Clothes.
@RM. whatever happens with proton will cost the taxpayer (i dont know about you but that is ME) in terms of money given in RnD grants, and price of cars which is the prime form of transportation since the govt will not improve public transit to the point of adequacy. i have a life and it would be a HELL of a lot better if proton was not in it.
It was meant to be sarcastic. I just comment on you just to show how ignorant your comment was, and it still is. To say bashers blindly/stupidly accept anything, is such a one-dimensional mindset when the road can go both ways to all of you suck-ups as well.
I can’t believe I have to spell things out to you.
Blind n stupid to believe anything huh? Well, guess it takes one to know one ; )
However, it’s sad to see ‘bashers’ or ‘very logical n realisitic people’ being blamed for simply comparing Proton to car world standards, highlighting the disregared truthss that are out there.
It’s time Proton (and their die-hard fanboys) take a lil hard critisism, grow up and realize the ugly truth and put those damn politics aside please.
PS: Fanboys, don’t let your enthusiatic, admirable patroitism push the truth aside.
I just got back from UK vacation. Just to share what the local folks over there told me; Proton is not in their buying list at all, even in the cheap car segment. Haha. All this while, Proton fan boys only syok-syok sendiri.
keep Lotus….. Proton will not have achive great heights if it was not with Lotus partnering and making great car handling. without lotus, we need anothe ‘donor’ car from another manufacturer, such as Mitsu and citroen. no doubt mitsu is good, but if add dynamics of lotus, it becomes a better car.
maybe the engine and transmission can be from another company. design can be a bit foreign
keep or no keep lotus, proton ain’t going any further. Since proton acquire lotus few years back. I never see any technology being brought back in proton car. All i hear is lotus suspension tuning. Proton bought empty shell lotus, Nothing is left behind.
What is “Lotus Handling” anyhow? Better driving?
I mean, the Vios/Civic handling is lousier?
but since Lotus is high-end sports car, should we compare with BMW?
So is our Proton car got superb or equal handling than BMW?
after all this years of Lotus, only the word “Handling” comes out?
I am confused the purpose of having Lotus, as a company stand point. What did Lotus have that benefits Proton? What technology after all this years? still Handling?
hai yah ken.. back then… who else can proton afford to buy??? back in 1997, land rover? MG? Saab? i may be wrong.. but i think proton was against some big boys in the acquisition drive as well.. oh well.. whatever has been done is done.. money thrown in… i am still praying real hard for a cheap Lotus to be brought in…
and to your post… the handling is overated for proton car… agree kau kau… even my DS3 handles better then my old Gen 2
walau! ds3 wo! sweet car, quirky and french, so like the french women, i suka!
gosh…i salute u bro MoFaz hahaha..
dear all bashers..wuts ur point here..i’ve been reading all of ur comment and seem like the only solution here is sell LOTUS, and sell everything that GLCs own and leave it solely to lasiere faire market?? everything tht had connection and attached to Proton brand name should be abolished and rid off??? wow now i know u guys r very clever busines minded.. i think tht most of bashers here recently never drove proton product @ just base solely on rumors.. i drove neo n still i didnt get any problem @ quality defect like u claims..
i had a look at a neo once at the showroom once and the engine cover was scratched up and the steering came in horrid hard plastic and was in 2 pieces when other steering wheels were a single piece where you hold it. i guess when you have gone to imports you never look back.
however on the question of lotus, proton should keep it since they are the real braintrust of proton.
ezracopters, in the past 5 years used to own Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Ford & Volkswagen. Now I have Saga & Myvi and I can easily say that Proton cars have poor quality, obsolete design & overpriced. I don’t want to talk so much details about the parts & design but let me tell you 2 simple ways I used to judge Proton’s quality.
1. Excessive kruk kruk sounds come less than 6 months after buying a brand new Proton.
2. I see the gaps between the hood and fender of all cars when I walk in parking lot. Foreign cars have equal gaps left & right and parallel gap front to back but so many Proton cars have gaps bigger on one side and they’re inconsistently getting narrow at the front.
A poorly built body will give everybody a very bad impression about the manufacturer. Besides, can you trust that Proton can make everything under the hood well when they can’t even install their hood & fender properly?
What is the Lotus price for sale? RM1?! like how we sold the Italian bike maker year s ago? I hope not…