It was shocking news when we heard that Proton and Group Lotus will be severing ties with Lotus Racing headed by Tony Fernandes. Now, here’s a chance to listen from the other side of the fence as Lotus Racing CEO Riad Asmat speaks on behalf of the team and its three top shareholders: SM Nasarudin, Kamarudin Meranun and Tony Fernandes.
“This year, we have established ourselves as the leading new team in F1 as a licensee of Group Lotus, and, although we all dreamt of bringing Team Lotus back to where it belongs, we could not do so in 2010 because those rights were owned by Team Lotus Ventures. As Tune Group has now bought Team Lotus Ventures it means we can now use the Team Lotus name for 2011 and beyond. We are all delighted we can go into 2011 with total confidence in what we own, and what we can take to the track.
“However, given that this is contested by Group Lotus we think now is the time to clear this matter up so there can be no further arguments. We have therefore today issued proceedings in the English High Court for a declaration that Team Lotus Ventures has the rights to use the Team Lotus name and everything associated with that brand in relation to F1.
“Racing under the Team Lotus name from 2011 means our licence with Group Lotus has now come to an end. In reality, this has nothing to do with how we will go racing in 2011, as the ownership of Team Lotus has been clearly defined for many years. David was approached a number of times about selling the rights of Team Lotus Ventures, including one official offer of from Proton/Group Lotus themselves.
“That must have been tempting for David, as the rightful owner of the Team Lotus brand and its rights. Oddly enough, Group Lotus also recently tried to revoke the Team Lotus trade marks at a hearing at the Trade Mark Registry, but they were unsuccessful. I suspect David’s misgivings about their previous offer to buy were justified by that action,” Asmat revealed.
Continue reading after the jump.
“The licence debate really is a non-issue. It was a simple licence, attached to a one year sponsorship deal with Proton for 2010 alone, and in fact for a tiny proportion of the amount invested by the shareholders into the team – approximately 1.5% of the total budget. Unfortunately we never reached the point where we discussed extending that one year deal,” he added.
“When we signed our licence to compete as Lotus Racing with Group Lotus, they were very clear that we could not make any reference to Team Lotus as they had no rights at all to the Team Lotus name or its rights. In fact, in the licence agreement between 1Malaysia Racing and Group Lotus the use of the Team Lotus name is expressly prohibited as they had agreed contractually, as long ago as 1985, that they had not rights to use that name. That was obviously something we had enormous respect for, and made no attempt to change until we could do so rightfully, and with a very clear understanding of what we had acquired in Team Lotus Ventures.
“So now the licence we ran under this year has been withdrawn by Group Lotus, and while we accept that this obviously means we have reached the end of that chapter, it opens up a new and very exciting one for everyone in our team. There will have to be some discussions with Proton and Group Lotus about the entitlement to terminate the licence. Frankly, they are trying to say that some very trivial points, including t-shirt design approvals of all things, gave them the right to terminate, but we thoroughly reject this.
“Now we look to the future. The details of what has been going on behind the scenes are now coming to light, and that’s good because it means the shareholders of Proton, the government, will now know the truth of what has been going on. However the important thing is to look at what we are doing to guarantee future success. We have already invested heavily in ensuring the Malaysian/ASEAN motorsports platform grows, something that cannot be said for our colleagues at Group Lotus.
“We created a world first when we ran Nabil Jeffri in our aero test earlier this year – the youngest ever F1 test driver. Fairuz has been gaining invaluable experience at the highest level by driving for us, and, through Tony and Din’s AirAsia Driver Development programme, we are giving young Malaysian/ASEAN talent the chance to reach the top. We are so proud to have laid the foundations for future success, and our fans acknowledge this every day. Personally I think it’s odd that our colleagues at Group Lotus have not embraced what we are giving them – a global platform for creating huge awareness and great value for their operations, all at no cost to them. In one year we have made huge strides in the growth of Lotus Racing, and now it’s all about Team Lotus.”
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Dany Bahar, pls fight back. Those greedy people should learn a lesson.
….Lotus Group/Proton could join Tony Fernandes in Team Lotus/Lotus Racing, since it’s already in F1 but they doesn’t want to….. because they want to make their own and waste Malaysian/British money…..
THAT is exactly the point.
Danny we believe in you…fight back. If Tony really want the brand, he should open up the door and let Lotus onw at least 51% of the equity. They must at least make use of Lotus people and technology, respect the brand…and dont simply buy others name from someone else who clearly a bully who steal others name for his own good…all this is as good as stealing…
some people just dont get what IP rights mean. This is not stealing la bro…
I secondate! Protong Waja Lancer? Do you call it stealing from Mitsu or rebadging? Figure it out. Hahaha.
Wow you are so confused I don’t even know where to begin… Go read your history, Colin Chapman kept Group Lotus and Team Lotus separate, so neither one owns another…
But Proton never bought the rights to Team Lotus when they purchased Group Lotus, they tried to stake their claim but since the companies were different it was ruled that they had to purchase it from the lawful rights owner at that point, David Hunt. Of course David didn’t sell….
Proton and Group Lotus are just pissed off that Tony F and his friends have taken a dead British motoring brand and kicked some life into it, and now that the world has taken notice and suddenly Lotus is becoming cool again, they want to stake their claim. When in fact they had something like 12 years to do this but they were happy to just sit tight and stick ‘Engineered by Lotus’ stickers on their stupid inferior Protons.
So now Proton and GL want to kick up a fuss and lay their stake to the Team Lotus (the racing team) brand. They lost before (go look it up, they tried to take it via the courts in the late 90s), and they will lose again.
End of story.
Speaking of which… is Group Lotus and Proton going to stake their claim to ‘everything Lotus’ now as stated in their press release?
So Lotus Notes, Lotus Nasi Kandar, etc all belong to them as well I guess?
Luckily they did not try to claim Lotus Paste.. else all those mooncake bakeries will go under.
cooler than a Virgin, yes.
Danny Bahar should resign…have you guys see the statement of financial position of Group Lotus? OMG….i’m smelling insolvency around the corner…@@
Good move! LOL
So much of politics. What next? Lotus restaurant stakes a claim? Now that would be some name. Team Teh Tarik Lotus or Team Tosai Lotus.
Brilliant dude! Loved it.
Team Tosai Lotus with F&N as major sponsors (susu pekat supplier).
you are marketing genius! cool!
its all about the name, not about racing. gosh
not just name…ownership…proton/lotus kena tricked!!!
TF do these on purpose they are the one who wanna kick proton/lotus out on the first place….
TF was using proton all these while….
Yes, i think TF trick everybody the way he always trick us, the poor air asia user who has no other choice…typical TF…
Asmat is talking cock man….
asmat should be reminded of his origin and who bring him up to that level when he first started…
Or maybe Asmat is smarter than those ‘who bring him up to that level when he first started’ and obviously knows his stuff…
or he is not even supposed to be there in the first place?
Its all about the change of guards. Used to be Amokh, now Nadz.,previously under Schlumberjack, now back to Dr Doom. So the arrangement done during Schlumberjack, and Rosak hubby just dont want to disturb that. Dr Doom now ask its honcho to act in order to punish Schlumberjack and Oxfart, however Oxfart and NoFrillsTony (& RA father buddy2 – the beret wearing former DG of RTD) act first by backstabbing DrDoom team with buying the Team Lotus name from “the Enemy”.
Good show guys. Dallas/Dynasty, Malaysian style.
all NAZA fault?
I will support Lotus F1 Racing team…Good Job for 2010. I pray to see in you action again 2011.
I’m sure they will.
I m sure Lotus Racing under Tony n co’s stewardship has more passion into the sports compared giving to Danny Bahar and co.
Sport or money wastage? Even mighty Toyota also pull out from the race. Furnished your statement with fact. TF is money-goer. He will used Proton/Lotus for his free ride. Why not using his own Tune Racing with red color rather than British Racing GREEN of Lotus emblem?
If he’s sincere, revert back to his own name, AirAsia Racing; Tune Racing or TFR tony fernandez racing o whatever but not Lotus Restaurant, oppps Lotus racing.
Agreed…he dont need the lotus name if really his passion is about racing…he has good brand on his own, even virgin use their own brand….why he need others brand…name Air Asia Tune Naza F1 whatever you brand is….
if he really want Lotus brand, he should have merger with group lotus…
I think better you all read this before u talk cock some more
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/09/22/a-mess-developing-in-malaysia/
we cant assume the passion is greater simply because of F1 calendar. how about the brand name in other areas of the motoring? and also the other vehicles and expertise made under brand Lotus?
Danny Bahar is a car making person, tony is, i dont know who. i mean, he used to run dangdut music, then airline of which full of controversies, then come this racing thingy. have no grudge upon tony but really comparing him and mr bahar, thats the explanation sprung into my mind.
so “more passion into the sport” is very wildly suggested
Bahar got kicked out of Red Bull because he did dodgy deals with Ferrari… the day he was told to leave he got offered a job at Ferrari…
Then he did his time in Ferrari, only surviving because he had Jean Todt’s backing… the moment Todt left Ferrari, Bahar quickly knew he needed to get out as well…
Bahar’s life is Formula One, and that’s why the only marketing he knows is via the motor racing platform, especially Formula One, and that’s why he so desperately wants to get back into Formula One….
Ahah! there’s go a hanky panky thing!
what ever the name is. y not just concentrate on winning races instead of wasting time doing things like this ?
whatever it is, In Malaysia, i respect Tony n Co’s as it make everyone dream come true, everyone can flight and now own a F1 team, Tony, Keep fighting ! as for P Carmaker, it spoiled people to have a nice car in more affordable price !
whatever. still at the bottom.
agree,
Proton = not exactly a leading brand in cars
Lotus Racing = not exactly leading any F1 race …
Why don’t we concentrate on smaller budget feeder races, the ones where future F1 drivers come from. OK granted, its less glamour and lesser covered by media but where are we going with all this money being spent?
Using the lotus name, but without “real lotus” involvement?. Pathetic.
Proton got conned.
Malaysia Airport got conned.
Passion for racing? Nope. Passion for money is more like it.
AGREED!!!!!
He can’t win the race so he try to have another “race”. Who know, he’ll win (as he has deep British corporate experience).
Weird when Branson use Virgin whenever he can; his protege choose the other way, use other color and name BUT claim as his.
Ethically correct? Or merely a marketing exercise?
its all in the name of liberalization. So let the court decides. Thats what someone asked for. So move on lah. So what has Tony got to say about this. He is surprising quiet, which is unlike him, not when during the launching. Lets hear from the shareholders.
BUT the situation is memalukan for Malaysia and here we are shouting at the top of our voice, 1Malaysia when we can’t even have a common vision for racing for Malaysian.
Just my tots dump.
they should pray to get some scores. single digit doesnt help at all.
So all the while it’s just a name, nothing to do with Lotus car engineering, engines or suspension. Even without Proton/Lotus, it’s still the same.
Then just get Lotus Massage or Lotus Restaurant as sponsors (without paying a sen) to have the rights! Perfectly legal!
Haha…Proton have just scored another stupid own goal again…LOL
Maybe they shared the same legal adviser as the MACC……..
Obviously Proton hv forgotten that Group Lotus & Team Lotus are two different entity & belong to different corporate ownership & right owner…….
One is a small volume Sport Car manufacturer & the other, an F1 Racing brand….
Ah, but without one there wouldn’t be the other. Without Lotus Cars, there wouldn’t be Team Lotus. Although Colin Chapman structured the company as separate entities, they are united when he was around. Only when he passed away the cracks between the F1 team and the car company began to show, until it’s untimely death in 1994 at the end of a horrid F1 season.
On a side note, I’m sure many of you don’t know who the heck is this David Hunt who owned the Team Lotus name. He does have an F1 connection in that his brother was the 1976 F1 World Champion with McLaren, the late James Hunt.
Get your facts right, Colin Chapman died in 1982, not 1994.
Yes Colin structured the company as separate entities, and run them basically as one one, but in 1986, when Lotus Cars was sold to GM, while Team Lotus was kept by the Chapman Family, they became truly separate entities. In 1991, the Chapman family sold the team to former Team Lotus employees Peter Collins and Peter Wright, who owned it until the team hit struggles in 1994 and went bankrupt, this is where David Hunt bought the Team Lotus not just the name, he entered Team Lotus into some races in 1995 in a partnership with Pacific, racing under the name Pacific Team Lotus. This didn’t work out and Hunt has tried to get Team Lotus back into F1 ever since but was unable to as F1 had entered into an era where the teams were all manufacturer ran teams.
why in the first place he didnt name the team something else? why he wanted so much to have a “Lotus” on board?
its publicity. the man loves publicity.
and then why he hoodwinked us into believing his 2010 racing team is of the legendary “Team Lotus” that served Chapman, and Senna, bla bla bla? and he went on claiming that “Lotus is back” in 2010, while Tune Group go and buy Mr Hunt’s brand name?
which one is the real deal? 2010 Lotus Racing or 2011 Team Lotus? or it depends on the crowd that listening?
he should have named his 2010 racing team Tony and Friends racing or amalina racing or aerobridge racing or whatever. that way the sentiment and sensitivity of the others can be preserved.
Didja actually think that the current lotus F1 team is the same one as before? I guess you arent much of a F1 fan then. And most of you in this blog dont understand the economics of F1. Senang cakap je korang, while people are out there making a team happen.
Flush Tony to the toilet.
He built his feet based on cheat and lies.
Ask Malaysian Airport staff or ask MAS staff.
What he call a “misdirection” is actually a poison that eat other.
What he call a business is actually “gave me yours, i am more connected”.
He do more harm than good .
How many more pie u wan, while u give shit to others?
U sound like some ex-MAS cronies who have their buffet train confiscated. Now u try to talked crap about one of M’sia more genuine successful & smart businessman.
Get a life. MAS is a nothing more than a lazy grown up who still can’t live a day without massive pocket money from his parent to survive.
BTW, this whole Lotus fiasco make one feel that, Proton thought they can get free publicity without doing much. Their only effort seem to be lending out their logo. Proton is just another MAS in 4 wheel…..
why can’t all parties view it positively… now Malaysian own both Group Lotus & Team Lotus. If both side can work together, it surely better than spending money at the English courts…
How many low cost airlines do u know globally that still survives like the normal airlines such as MAS ?
low cost airlines are crap..just BS…if it’s cheap, other companies should have been doing it long time ago.
yeah TF is smart..smart in playing guli with those lower than UPSR level minded politicians and VIPs.
He owns Malaysia Airport Sdn Bhd a truck loads of money for not paying landing fees, maintenance, parking etc…
do check your definition on “successful businessman”
If you can get the Team Lotus name legally, does it carry the 7 world championship heritage? If there is nothing ‘Lotus’ about Team Lotus, then forget about it lah. It’ a misrepresentation of history of Lotus and F1.
for me this is because Lotus and Proton not involve directly on this team. why they used NAZA to sponsor??? why not involve proton and lotus from the beginning to create this team??? why they want to used Lotus name on this team after other automobile player involve on this team??? this lotus name on this team just for publicity to them advertise their product and their name. there no benefit to Lotus it self and proton… that why proton and lotus group want this team remove lotus name for next season.
I really do think its idiocy to buy a name albeit one with a racing heritage just to have a name but without the technology that made it great in the first place. the Lotus name would be a hollow one if TF continues to use it just for the sake of the name.
A brand is more than just a name or a logo… it is also what comes with that name. It is the pedigree… its the design…. the roar of the engine… the performance of the car… the It is a whole experience. With an engineering background but without any technological participation i truly understand why Lotus Group, does not want its name associated with the team.
Using Lotus definitely will hurt the small volume seller. My advice to TF et all; change a bit to imply you have no link whatever to Group Lotus/Colin Chapman or whatever credentials that easily related to the BRAND and any of its traits. As l mentioned before, the guy (TF) use the same color.
My suggestion:
LOT Tus; LOOTUS; Loh Tus; LOTONG racing or Teratai Racing also no problem.
Misusing the Lotus name just will give more bad/harm than good to the brand. We don’t want to related Tony F and Chapman. He should embarrassed.
TEAM LOTUS
= PASUKAN TERATAI (TF just use this name lah, it shows more spirit of 1Malaysia )
ahahaa..
Re: “…. i truly understand why Lotus Group, does not want its name associated with the team.”
And yet, “Lotus Racing” is OK …. ?
Well, judging from the amount of dislikes in this and the previous post, it seems to me that the Proton team of supporters are all out, as usual since there isn’t any clarity yet in the issue, they play the blame game and go about bashing, nothing new it seems. Guys, once there is more information shed on this matter, then judge not preemptively start blaming Tony or Proton. First off, it is true that Proton’s contract for the Lotus license with team 1Malaysia is only for one year initially, who knows along the way they were threatening to pull out and Tony foresaw this and realized he could still salvage the situation and retain some Lotus element to it by buying over the Team Lotus rights from David (this is an actual fact, was the owner of Team Lotus Ventures, our beloved Proton and Group Lotus were just trying to play that fact down)… Just give everyone benefit of the doubt and move on
now boys (din, riad, tony) hear this. dont let this glare of publicity get to your heads. it is already getting too big for your own good. mark these words.
hats off, you guys have done a lot in the relatively short time in business. as we know, the real guy behind this is the smart one, i.e tony. the rest are just bumi cover and book-ends. nasi lemak in the pits? pls la…what value does it bring to racing. now riad is the ‘champ’ bearing down on proton with the english (no less) high court in tow. so what does it bring to you? david hunt is mightily pleased – some liberated melayu baru doing the proxy fight for him.
forget the law for while; you can get away with anything these days. david ‘team lotus ventures’ got away on technicalities. but not in spirit. the guy does not represent lotus, period. chapman (RIP) must be turning on his grave.
same message for you, tony, riad, din. you cannot build a long-term venture on a technical win. its gonna catch up on you soon. and with your grand plans, driver development, sepang circuit etc, you gonna need support at every turn. lets visit team lotus 5 years from now ok
the posts in this thread are 75-25 NOT in your favour. that should be your cue. whilst we love the david vs goliath thing, we also value decency, honesty, humility.
esp you tony – the MAB fees, FAX in east malaysia, LAbu Airport thingy, we think its catching up. as they say – you can fool some people some of the time, but……
cheers. forza ferrari
Funny cause i read some foreign F1 fan forums and most of them favoring Tony and gang. Yet again another Mysian defeat mentalist?
Well i dont fly much so I have no comment about Air Asia. ;)
Easy, they don’t know TF as we do. If Team Lotus bungkus, then to the F1 fraternity they will lose another team. Of course most people don’t want another team to disappear.
Especially when it is only an also-ran team which is not threatening to the other established teams. The keyword here is “established”. They better start looking for podiums or in a few years time they will just be another laughing stock (or is it us and the spirit of 1Malaysia).
Marketing gimmicks can only get you some distance. I’m not sure whether to give TF the benefit of the doubt. I just hope he doesn’t destroy the brand with his money-making spins this time. He can do whatever he wants with AirAsia lah.
trav_da_man,
i said “we love the david vs goliath” thing – this means we love a winning ‘mentalist’. many malaysians do.
I follow the many foreign F1 forums too and I certainly dont think they are favoring Tony and gang. Many are wondering why Malaysians are fighting over British heritage. It this issue is not settled quickly, we will be a laughing stock.
Riad says “There will have to be some discussions with Proton and Group Lotus about the entitlement to terminate the licence. Frankly, they are trying to say that some very trivial points, including t-shirt design approvals of all things, gave them the right to terminate, but we thoroughly reject this.” – How can someone who previously worked for Proton make this comment. A company guards its brand jealously and YES even t-shirt designs matter and should not be regarded as trivial.
He goes on to say “Now we look to the future. The details of what has been going on behind the scenes are now coming to light, and that’s good because it means the shareholders of Proton, the government, will now know the truth of what has been going on.” Obviously this has been brewing for sometime, is there more you are not telling us???.
“However the important thing is to look at what we are doing to guarantee future success. We have already invested heavily in ensuring the Malaysian/ASEAN motorsports platform grows, something that cannot be said for our colleagues at Group Lotus.” – Of course la Group Lotus has not invested in Malaysian motorsports, its main market is in UK & Europe BUT its parent company, Proton, has been investing heavily in Malaysian motorsports for over 20 years and helped to develop many Malaysians. Please dont twist this story Riad, give credit where is due.
“We created a world first when we ran Nabil Jeffri in our aero test earlier this year – the youngest ever F1 test driver.” Whats this fixation of creating firsts???
“Fairuz has been gaining invaluable experience at the highest level by driving for us” – during practise?? 15 minutes to practise in Singapore?? – let him drive during the race, then talk.
“and, through Tony and Din’s AirAsia Driver Development programme, we are giving young Malaysian/ASEAN talent the chance to reach the top. We are so proud to have laid the foundations for future success, and our fans acknowledge this every day.” Thank you but Proton has been doing this for years.
“Personally I think it’s odd that our colleagues at Group Lotus have not embraced what we are giving them – a global platform for creating huge awareness and great value for their operations, all at no cost to them. In one year we have made huge strides in the growth of Lotus Racing, and now it’s all about Team Lotus.” – Yup, yet again 1 car not finishing the race and another going up in flames in the last race is indeed great strides.
I agree with most of you that TF needs to gracefully bow out and not destroy the Lotus brand with another of his money making spins. And please Tony, take Riad with you.
Someone remind me why TF decided to set-up a Malaysian F1 team again.
yooo by now u all must know that the only reason TF wants to use Lotus name is because of the sponsorship he has get in for Lotus Racing plus the big money from Naza..You see, if he change it to AirAsia Racing, do u think other big spender wants to throw in their money to this team? AirAsia may be a well-known brand, but in F1, the most famous name is Lotus.
Just my 2cent ;)
It shall be heritage lost for Lotus. Whatever the name shall be, we all know that it will not be THE Lotus as we dream it to be.
If they get to the grid next year, they better prove that carrying the Team Lotus name is to also preserve the winning heritage that Team Lotus once was.
Maybe TF thinks that having “LOTUS” sticker on the side of the car really can add horsepower, just like those Ah Bengs with stickers and no substance!
come to think of it… Lotus currently does not ‘dream’ of entering F1… it is by virtue that Lotus Group is owned by Proton that the deal to license the Lotus name to TF. What F1 dream is there when Lotus name is present without the engineering and techincal participation?…this would mean if ‘Lotus’ is successful then it would be a hollow victory… If ‘Lotus’ fails in F1 it would be shameful for the brand…
From a business n branding point of view it is a good move by Lotus Group.
dont u know??
sticking a PROTON+LOTUS RACING stickers can only get additional +10hp…
while sticking a TEAM LOTUS sticker will get the additional of ++500hp!!!
ahahaaahaa..
they dont dare stick an AIRASIA TEAM sticker there..
coz it will make them loss -150hp from that action..
F1 is not just racing, it also a business… it is understandable why Tony want Lotus name on his team, because “AirAsia Team” will simply wont get any sponsorship.
Then Tony got to use the Lotus name… And all Lotus fan around the world seems happy about it, even though its not a winning team.
So.. he got the Lotus name.. with it he can get the sponsorship that he needs to compete in F1.. by right he should concentrate to improve the team right?
But no….. Tony want to own the Lotus name in F1.. This is a sheer greed. He bought the Team Lotus name from the “enemy” of Group Lotus / Proton, the party who give him the big break in the first place.
This whole episode is a stab in the back for Proton and Group Lotus by Tony.
Or it may be a case of Tony knowing Group Lotus wanting the name Team Lotus for its American racing activities, went and bought the Team Lotus name from David Hunt with the consent of Group Lotus, and trying to use it as a bargaining chip from Proton to get money. Truth is, Group Lotus needs the Team Lotus name more than F1 because the reason Group Lotus is entering the Indy Racing League is to secure the American market for Lotus. Americans don’t follow F1 as much as they do the IRL/NASCAR scene, and not having the Lotus name is useless, since how can they use the marketing advantage afforded to them by the association with the IRL if the team isn’t Lotus? Like I said, Tony knows that.
Well said elpaciko. Truth is that F1 needs money. Nobody is going to throw financial support behind TF Racing. Branding is a powerful tool and at the moment the Lotus brand represents that power. All these guys are doing is trying to raise their visibility to gain more sponsors which hopefully can be translated to better updates for the 2011 car.
I can understand tat some feel it’s not right to use Lotus’ name in F1 when the parent company has no involvement in it. BUT the same can be said for every proton that rolls off the assembly line with the words “tuned by lotus” on it. The connection is small, if any.
u’ve just explained to us about rhe brand manipulation. thanks!
yup..
atleast proton handling did tuned by LOTUS..
while TEAM LOTUS tuning.. tuned by????
prfthhhh..
In F1 there is no such thing as tuning by whom. Its all about chassis and engine aka powerplant or drivetrain term.
Tuned by Mark Gascoyne.. in case you didnt know..
I guess ignorance is bliss for proton lovers here..
Actually is Tony Bahar who wanted the licensing of Lotus Racing to be cancel when he became CEO GL and this leave Tony no choice but to purchase the Team Lotus right for David Hunt. Adam Cooper and Joe Saward who are long time commenters in F1 world knew it better.
You probably mean Dany Bahar
So Group Lotus and Team Lotus is totally diferrent ? One is the making the lotus cars the other is the racing outfit for lotus if i got it correctly…so why Group lotus bising ? Kena dump tak shiok ! ?
the one who bising-bising rite now is
TF and gang lah..
Hassan Merican probably saw this coming and hence Petronas decided to go to bed with Mercedes. Good move!
this is getting too far.. someone needs to suggest a compromise or collaboration between these two before it gets out of hand. Maybe setup shop next door to the manufacturing plant in Hethel instead of Sepang hahah. yeah i know, sounds lame.. anyway, if, let’s say things do get out of hand, how do you guys see nasib Group Lotus and Team Lotus in the near future?
Ha ha…. only if you can make money out of it. If not, don’t bother, don’t take sides. Unless you’re a lawyer. And they pay you good money.
tu la nighttrain, common sense must prevail.
belum apa-apa dah nak pergi high court dan semua pihak dok buat public statements. macam nak menang dalam court of public opinion.
honestly, what does the common man care about whether it is team lotus or lotus racing. pada dia it is ‘lotus’ aja. ok maybe the difference is a few million quid, but boleh ke encik riad tu discuss dengan signor bahar.
and what about ‘bmw sauber ferrari’ ? i think funnier things happen in f1. its all a marriage of convenience. its just a sport after all.
as consumers we want better, safer cars, real good ones which is a joy to own and drive. (and no, i tak drive bmw)
hold court procedures and start roundtable discussions? unlikely… oh well, sit back and watch la kot, since we’re out of it.. Wonder what Che Det thinks about all this.. not that it matters.
well… The TWO Lotuses were once separate entities of the Group…. Group Lotus (now owned by Proton) still does its engineering works and owns the name ‘Lotus Racing’… Team Lotus Venture (now owned by Tune) has the name ‘Team Lotus’ although it is still disputed how the previous owner came about ownership of it.
TF should just rename it TuneRacing… it doesn’t matter if it doesn’t have the racing pedigree name… neither does Virgin Racing.
u got sense
See even Sir Stirling twitting saying oppose to GL @StirlingMossCom Group Lotus is wrong, never ever owned rights to Team Lotus name.
but Lotus Group has been trying to get Team Lotus name into the group, so that Lotus will remain in actual / original Lotus family. not in ‘keluarga angkat’. then suddenly Tony bought it.. that’s after he ‘borrowed’ Lotus Racing from Proton/Lotus. anybody would be angry.
Back to the drawing board again and come up with other alternative.
P1 is no pushover and that has always been that way.
Petronas probably knew about the politics and chose a stable partner instead.
I suggest proton and group lotus stop pursuing team lotus brand. enter us indycar with lotus racing name.
epol, oval track and the funny suspension system? the epitome of motor racing is F1, nothing else.
But Americans aren’t big fans of F1. That’s why they have to go into Indy 500. Typical Americans, always think their sports are the superior ones.
add to nighttrain… and different tyre diameter… what a funny race..
It’s kinda weird that Group Lotus decided to licence the use of Lotus Racing to TF. And it’s also weird that Mr Hunt owns the rights to Team Lotus. That means Group Lotus (I presume this is the original Lotus company founded by Colin Chapman):
1. Is not involved in F1 per se, but only through namesake via Lotus Racing.
2. Does not own and cannot use Team Lotus for F1, since that is owned by Mr Hunt. How this came about is strange, why would Group Lotus part with the rights to Team Lotus in the first place, if in fact it was theirs to begin with? o.O
So technically, by buying over Team Lotus, TF has in fact, done a masterstroke of genius! He gets to leverage on the brand goodwill and F1 heritage of Lotus, and does not have to pay licence fees anymore to Group Lotus! He is, in fact, if he manages some degree of success in F1 next year, helping Group Lotus to possibly sell more Lotus cars, and also create higher brand equity for them for free!
So, Group Lotus should look at what they can also get out of Team Lotus, instead of just trying to stop them. They should look beyond the loss of licensing revenue, and see the “bigger picture”.
That’s the biggest puzzle, why on earth did Lotus Group sold the rights of Team Lotus name to an outsider in the first place? Was it desperately, for the money? Whatever it was, it’s part of the history. Probably the best solution to the current dilemma , is maybe Lotus should have a controlling stake in the current Lotus Racing team, because the base setup is already there, Lotus Group could just work together with Tony & Co and move forward to create a better team :)
That’s right. Group Lotus should buy a controlling stake on the Lotus Racing and acquire the team as a factory team. That’s the best solution, because when Lotus Racing becomes a factory team, then Lotus and Proton will have full control over the team, including the engine / chassis setup, staff, engineers etc.
Its easy! Colin Chapman decided that he wants to have 2 separate entity
a) Group Lotus – Car, Engineering, etc
b) Team Lotus – For Grand Prix (later renamed F1)
Even these 2 are different legal entity, all are under 1 man – Colin Chapman. Same basic principle of lightweight, firm handling (going fast around the bends) being used on all its cars (racing or road cars). Whether you like it or not, it is connected (between the two). However when Colin dies in 1982, it stared to go haywire. Always remember, there is wife, son, brother sister and so on and so forth, just like Naza now fighting between 1st wife, anak tiri pakcik and such. Knowing brits disaster in management (Rover group, Jaguar, British Leyland, Mini etc) the company started to split even further as GM, Toyota and lastly proton/DRB (1997) got hold of the Group but not Team Lotus as the brother of the driver is smart enough to buy the name (and hold Group Lotus ransom.
Someone is saying “if Team Lotus do well, Lotus cars have free publicity etc etc”. What if they do horribly wrong? At the same time Lotus have its own team of expert/engineer running other single seater racing besides touring/endurance racing. The only way is for GLotus to buy the name to prevent the disaster, and Tony & gang should find a compromise, not hold Lotus ransom money esp when Lotus have a series of cars coming out and trying to capture LHD (US/EU/CN etc) market. Its really a stab in the back for Proton/Lotus.
Team Lotus previously was founded inside Lotus group. It was a sister company. Due to financial reason, the team lotus was sold off not the Lotus which now becomes Lotus group (car division, aerodynamics division, blah blah, where the group comes in).
Team lotus has a track record … Tony is smart by going into this naming business, cuz once you aquire the brand, you aquire its track record. So if he wins a championship, it will be record as an 8th win for Team Lotus.
and regarding this licensing and stuff .. dun get confused with license to produce and sell a car .. and the license to race in FIA ..
= )
I believe everyone is at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Group Lotus wanting to get back into pinnacle of motorsports is doing the right thing by being involved in Indy, GP2, other lower ranked categories first. Slowly they can build up until maturity then only it would be time for F1. They just have to be realistic and not try to pull a “Brawn GP”. It wont work.
Suddenly comes a knight in shining armor (Tony & co.) giving lifeline to Group Lotus to race in F1. I’ve read some comments here saying current F1 race team (whatever name it will be next) is not an expanded Group Lotus racing engineers but rather additions (or job creations) specially for the new F1 team. Now it starts to become all wrong. When you have new ppl in, only time can tell how well they work together and adapt to the new environment. On top of that you are fighting with desperate new teams and more established teams like Ferrari and Mclaren. Simply see how Red Bull and Force India come up the ranks, same story. Now Brawn is incomparable since it is partly Honda, with superb Merc engine at the time (must have been divine intervention when it fitted well into the chassis) then you have Sir Ross Brawn heading the team who is a technical person and technical director to SEVEN TIME F1 WORLD CHAMPION.
This brings me to Datuk Seri Tony and the gang. He is right for trying to increase his already massive asset. I would do the same in fact I am doing the same now. EVERYONE wants to be rich. Part of me wants to give him credit for all the work and opportunities he created within the F1 business be it he was doing it sincerely or not. And not forgetting the job opportunities available now for Malaysians. It is safe to say he was just doing what Richard Branson did. Spearhead an F1 team. Except that Tony must have missed the fact that Virgin sponsored a succesfull F1 team and must have got some pretty good F1 knowledge from good ‘ol Ross Brawn. With that knowledge or simply greedy or maybe even plain wanting to prove himself to the world, made his own F1 team and started working too fast. Computer simulated design is not the real world, the nature of actual wind is different than virtual wind. So Sir Branson is still a bad example. What Datuk Seri should have really done was emulate Vijay Mallya. Buy an existing yet established or stable F1 team then let the right ppl run the business. Vijay retained his team principle when he bought over Spyker for at least a season. Maybe another bad example. Anyway get my point? Start from humble beginnings. Start from the bottom as what we all do.
My guess is, Datuk Seri (Proton/Group Lotus too) must have looked at Brawn’s success middle of last year then thought to himself “I can do this”. Plus he saw the possible $$$ flow into the pocket, F1 is of course one of the biggest and most watched sports in the world. He must have thought the established and much respected Lotus name can bring instant success and definitely the easiest to get (read connections to the higher gov/proton power). Imagine Tony trying to race under the name Alfa Romeo. Now he should not just sit on the name Lotus to gain popularity, trust or whatever. Use the name wisely.
Being a technical person, I believe technical and knowledge should come first in F1. Agree or disagree, I must say we already gain so much from F1 tech minus the massive fuel burn. What about the enjoyment of racing. But what can we do with that without money. Thanks to Bernie Ecclestone, we achieve both in a single event. GET RICH WHILE ENJOYING WHAT WE DO BEST (we = F1 ppl of course).
the solution is easy..
make danny bahar lotus racing team principal
I am serius meh
all this mess I believe was originally from danny bahar ambitious plan wants to be a team principal in F1 team.
When he left for Ferrari, the word on the street was that he had been coveting Christian Horner’s position as team principal of the F1 team, and having failed to secure that he was hoping to slot into the succession at Maranello. Unfortunately he came in as Jean Todt’s man just as Todt was on his way out…
By the time Bahar’s feet were under the table at Group Lotus, in September 2009, Tony Fernandes had concluded a multi-year licencing deal to use the Lotus Racing name in F1, having failed to do a deal with Hunt to run as Team Lotus. Bahar knew that to fulfil his ambitions to turn Lotus into a properly multi-national behemoth to rival Ferrari, he needed to be in F1 – trouble is, Tony fernandes got there first.
Dear Servant of GOD,
Your are a bit childish & naive to think that F1 generate lot of money for Tony Fernandes. You totally overlooked how expensive & cuttroat these F1 business & racing are.
Just see how many billions both Toyota & Honda have spent without archieving much.
Team Lotus is a very good example of a failed business adventure from the the past.
Maybe you can suggest to the “good people” at Proton & Lotus Group to form their own team & race…..If they decline…maybe it’s time you look into the COST of F1 racing instead of “DAYDREAMING” about the money from sponsorship & etc….
Remember, Lotus Group almost gone into administration if not for the generosity of rakyat M’sia for subsitizing their yearly losses since Proton bought it way back…….
Fair enough comment. I can take childish and naive. Considering me being criticised doesnt cost money compared to the failed business of F1 as how you, Katak, have pointed out.
But let me ask you this. In a very friendly manner. Mr big shot Tony (and the whole proton/group lotus) entered F1 after toyota, honda, bmw all bailed out. so do you think he was simply and silly-ly taking a risk without thinking bout profit down the line? Profit now, profit later it doesnt make any diff. he is still thinking bout money. or is he very passionate bout F1 racing that he straight away jumps into murky waters. remmeber while jumping he is also pulling the hands of his partners. what do u think?
should i remind you that petronas pulled out too but then reentered. as a major sponsor which means giving out big bucks. if you say “major sponsor” is only a name then i would still believe petronas paid a hefty amt of money to get humungous petronas stickers on the cars. now petronas is not doing very well domestically (someone working in petronas told me and according to him everything is being cut till barely any bonus left, well if he is lying then i am lying to you now). so why does petronas wants to be in F1 still?
correct me if i’m wrong, you get some money from formula one management aka bernie ecclestone if you are an F1 team racing under FOM and not in another breakaway champ. sounds like a bonus because basically if you race under FOM then you get paid no matter if you win, lose or who sponsors you. again it’s all about $$$. question->you have a capital (from FOM) to begin R&D but how do you further that R&D? answer -> with more funds (sponsorships, winnings etc).
Hahahaha. Laughing out loud.
If i am GL/Proton i will also do the same to stop Tony for using the brand name because for god sake the F1 car doesn’t involve any Lotus Technology and any thing happen in F1 will surely effect their image/brand.
Some more Lotus is planning to build another super car that can on par with Ferrari and Lamborghini but with this future lotus Racing team on F1 keep failing or un success to win any thing this will bring down consumer confident lotus brand.
If i give u chose you will buy a Ferrari which win F1 or a lotus which lose or unable to start race (2011 F1 rule is getting more worst)
And also imagine u Drive Lotus and ppl laugh at u “u drive a loser Car” will u piss off as an owner?
Seriously i bet tony keeping the name to force Lotus to involve and invest technology in F1 car so that keep up with the Upper Team.
Proton doesn’t owned rights to ‘Team Lotus’ name in F1.
from joe saward’s grand prix blog :
Team Lotus – remains under Colin Chapman’s family control although “two former Lotus employees, Peter Wright and Peter Collins, took control of the F1 team, with a company called Team Lotus Limited, with the rights to the name and logo being assigned to this new organisation. Four years later this latter operation went into administration and a firm called Paintglossy Limited (later renamed Team Lotus Ventures Limited) bought the rights to the name and logo from the administrator”. This was completed in 1995. Proton brought Group Lotus in 1996. In 1998, Group Lotus challenged the right of Team Lotus name from Team Lotus Ventures Limited in court – and lost!
“Thus Group Lotus has no real legal claim on Team Lotus, based on the decisions made up to now. There is no reason to suppose that a new legal action will be any more successful than previous ones. Tony Fernandes has now acquired the rights and logos from Team Lotus Ventures Ltd and so, in theory, has the right to call his organisation Team Lotus. The Chapman Family seems to be in agreement with this situation – which is a point of some importance.”
So Proton had no rights to claim the name before and still have no rights to claim the name then..
WhiteFox, well said.
Lotus is known as chassis & suspension specialist, also uses its facilities to develop and test this kind of set up for others. Imagine Lotus Racing of TF F1 car is always at 15th place or worst…who will buy Evora or should I get lotus to develop and tune my chassis and suspension for my future models?
It is so important to have brand name in F1for future supercar development. Merc and BMW got it in their race to produce supercar like Ferrari. …and I am waiting for a supercar from Renault may be the technology was already used in the latest Nissan Skyline..
Brit was known for not selling brand name because of its goodwill, look at Rover still remained as British Brand but the new car called Rowe, …unless you are a reputable manufacturer like BMW when got Range Rover and Mini Cooper and BMW or VW now (I also forgot) for its prestigious Roll Royce under their line up. How would a Lotus name under Tune will survive in future?
To save the Lotus name, take it out from TF F1. What a Lotus F1 car without its technology…TF, please don’t cheat people…
I bet Tony is aiming Proton/GOV money to buy back Lotus Venture than Tony and his Gang can earn $$$$
Now GL/Proton is facing Tony double edge sword which i think Lotus Group either need chance logo or new name to prevent further brand issue or direct involve with the team to boots the team performance so at least keep at top 10.
Should Consider change name to Protus already >< kakaka
In the name of national interest and unity, proton will buy over Team Lotus eventually. Everyone involved will be labelled patriotic and become very rich.
A bit showdown is good for publicity and brand value i.e. higher price tag.
They have had 17 years to buy Team Lotus and they haven’t, what makes you think they are going to pay for it. They just want to steal it and use it for their own gain. There are p*ssed off when they bought Group Lotus because Team Lotus wasn’t included because it was a seperate company and owned by someone else!
bro buang masa dia orang semua…. letak je nama Proton handeling by lotus sudah!
i hereby stake claim to the Lotus Nasi Kandar Restaurant name.!
just call it loony tunes. better.
tasmanian devil and speedy gonzales as drivers. goofy as team principal, daffy duck as team manager and the crew made up of bugs bunny, elmer fudd, slyvester, tweety bird, porky pig and donald duck.
shrewd business but downright unethical and doesn’t command any respect.
Here’s a clearer story of who owned what.
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/09/28/the-lotus-affair/
what’s all the fuss? it is just gonna be as before. proton to capitalise on lotus brand name for cars, while TF capitalises on the other name for racing. they will complement each other, just like the vision of the previous owner.
It is like Jimmy Choo brand. It has been commercialised, no longer under Jimmy Choo, but he gets the benefit of the globalised name without spending too much money.
That’s right, probably one of the main reason was, due to the grand ambition of Lotus Group to turn around their image and road cars to be in the same league as Ferrari, Porsche, Mclaren and Lamborghini. And if Lotus Racing remained as backmarkers within the next couple of years,in someways, Lotus image could be tarnished & it could dampen the impact that Lotus Group was hoping for in their new road cars. So Proton & Lotus Group has to stop that before it happens.
Another example maybe is Air Asia and AirAsia X. It’s a gamble to create AirAsia X becos noone has done a budget long haul carrier. But if it fails, AirAsia is insulated becos the long haul one is a sister, not a subsidiary. But if it turns out good, AirAsia also dapat nama.
Proton shd look at it from that perspective. Just lend the name to TF, if the team succeeds, you will be thanked by the entire Malaysians for lending the name. If the team fails, you can say it is not related to you.
if TF won the court and can use the name? what’s next?a budget team lotus sports car? now everyone can own a lotus sports car? but if you want the car to have all 4 wheels, you have to purchase it separately.
if he truly passionate about motorsport, he wouldn’t mind using Malaysian Racing Team as what being used by HRT.
At first they said they going to uphold the name Lotus, at first it does look like it.. but through out the season it does not look good for a multi championship winner name.. if he failed. he could just abandon the name Lotus all together and call it a bad investment while Lotus or Team Lotus or Group Lotus will always have that history imprint onto their name.
so TF, juz abandon your Lotus name and use another name instead and quit bitching about not getting your wanted fly route also.. take it from your mentor. business is about what’s good you can offer to people.. not how much you can take from people….
HRT or Hispania Racing Team was not named out of nationalism. It was named after the investor’s company, Hispania
Look at how many investment Tony and Co done
http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/info.asp?y=2010&dt=0929&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Sukan&pg=su_01.htm
Yes, but dont you think there was more than altruistic reasons that Tony & gang invested all that money. I remember K.Meranun saying sometime last year that they will get back their investment back in 1 year. That obviusly did not happen.
Btw, if you did it for the country, for the development of Malaysians, why dredge it up.
after reading this article it raises even more reason to be concerned.
i certainly hope good sense will prevail and that proton/group lotus will not even ever consider purchasing such a team simply for the use of the name. not at the cost that has been made out. better they buy another team or start from scratch then pay the extravagant amount mentioned which is likely to balloon further. walk away, run away, dont even go near it with a 110ft long pole please.
Come on seriously, for Proton to ‘gaduh’ to have the ownership of LOTUS F1 just means that they have NO confident with their very own Proton brand.
The truth hurts eh Protong fan boys.
HAHAHAHAHA. (Still laughing out loud).
(tak sampai satu tahun beb!, artis kahwin cerai pun at least lebih satu tahun baru cerai, hahaha.)
i thought TF berminat nk join outomotif, so maybe its the next plan.
Sblm ni pun TF nk beli lotus dr proton, tp proton xnk jual..so klo dapt
Team lotus he will have the right chance to put lotus under his management soon..
and maybe GL juga berminat nk kerja bwh TF.. Its just my own opinion…
But if after this proton and TF will kongsi the Lotus name…mgkn itu yg proton bimbangkn..