A quick update, officials from PSA Peugeot Citroen has acknowledged discussions have been held on possible cooperations on projects but there is no current confirmed plan to engage in a joint project. No further details were given. It is probably still too early for anything to be confirmed, and sources for the previous piece of news has given a timeline of a few months for anything to be signed anyway.
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After dabbling for years in the IT industry, Paul Tan initially began this site as a general blog covering various topics of personal interest. With an increasing number of readers paying rapt attention to the motoring stories, one thing led to another and the rest, as they say, is history.
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acknowledge discussions but no confirmed plan in joint project?
– "How much it will boost P1 share price or at least prevent further decline with this kind of news?"
It was VW, then Indian car company, followed by Chinese car company, then Mitshu, then now VW and PSA Peugeot Citroen.
From that I can see that P1 should be making soap opera, talk show, etc instead of cars. They seem to be excell in the former.
To survive, I strongly suggest that P1 to redesign their existing manufacturing plant into movie studios.
Every time, talk to this and talk to that car manufacturers and at the end of the day, all evaporate.
Close shop lah, P1, we want Peugeot 407 2.0 auto selling for 100,000. That's the thing we wantlah.
It means nothing.
it is better to continue T Mahalel plan. The MPV are already test on the track b4 he was sacked. The new CEO, make me 'pening'. if p1 want to use the peugeot106, how about the good chasis savvy?
If Peugeot 407 at 100k, still not for the masses. Should be 307 at 50-60k.
hi abe, you mean proton was about to come out with an mpv last year before TM was sacked? so what happened to it?
Discussion is going on, it really mean nothing.
Dissappointed… hope this will not be another hiccup like the JV between volkswagen & proton previously reported.
never expect too high for the proton… they like to use the outdated technology from other car manufacturers.
Malaysia is the heaven for the foreign car manufacturers to dump their outdated and unsuccessful models..
Cheers……. Bolehland………..
NAP had lost its legitimacy to protect P1 and that its products was in a "state of civil war" (older models competing with newer model, e.g. Iswara, Wira, Waja, Gen-2). The P1 reliance on NAP to suck "illegal money" (not make normal profit) from consumers is out of control. P1 are "running out of steam, ideas, divided from top to bottom", as what they can do? Currently they are "busy" on clear old stock/defend sagging domestic market and talking a lot to boost share price to make fast buck. They are no longer able to make profit based on turnover/sales and "the sooner P1 goes the better" – for everybody.
Couldn't agree more. Proton have several products at almost similar price/spec. This alliance might only add to the problem,if they are planning to assemble a compact/midsized peugeot/citroen car. I really really hope they bring in models that proton doesn't have, namely a mid/full sized MPV.
The Citroen piccasso is an excellent candidate for a mid-sized MPV. While, Citroen's C8 and Peugeot's 807 would great for a full-sized MPV. Thus, buyer beware for those current planning to purchase these vehicle's. You could be staring at huge depreciation if proton starts assembling them.
First P1talked to VW, then back to Mistui ,, then to Mahindra, then to Chery, then to Peugeot, then back to VW again…. so let me guess .2nd round is talk to Toyota, talk to Honda, talk to chevrolet, talk to Ford, talk to Tata and then back to toyota. …. 3rd round talk to Nissan, talk to Kia, talk to Hyundai, talk to Saab, then back to Nissan again.. WALAU. P1 must be very free and nothin to do .. Just talking blah blah blah blah . WTF !
Yes, i am going to buy a Brabus, i am posting in paultan.org now.
goingberserk – …. 3rd round talk to Nissan, talk to Kia, talk to Hyundai, talk to Saab, then back to Nissan again.. WALAU. P1 must be very free and nothin to do .. Just talking blah blah blah blah . WTF !
So when every car manufacturer realise that P1 do talk show around for the sake of support the share price, then eventually nobody interested to talk to P1 given its dubious intention, …… Then 4th round talk to local "players" like Kedai Basikal Ah Seng, Kedai Motor Muthu, Kedai Ketuk Kereta Ahmad then come back again Kedai Basikal Ah Seng,……… Walaueh, P1 must be very free to do the talk show, … blah, blah, blah,………….
Looking back to last few month, "P1 want to get marry" but propose "do you want to marry me" to Miss German VW, Miss China Dolls (not 1 but 3 "little dragon sister" lol), Miss Bollywood India, Miss Japanese, Miss American (Delphi) and now Miss French (2 lol). Walueh P1 so greedy and "hamsap" want so many for what? So eventually all fail because no one trust but all reject P1. Ask P1 to fly kite lah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
europe makers look at
proton,
impression is "kampong" league,
just like we look at
INDO/ IRAN car makers!
kendo – that is what exactly happening, yet P1 still think that the rakyat have to support and "treasure this national car project" at all cost, and P2 also no exception. UK Times Online Driving section, Part one:
Jeremy Clarkson picks the best buys for Hatchback categories,Volkswagen Golf GTI 3dr. Clarkson's verdict: "A hole in one"
Clarkson's Comments – It’s not chav, it’s not bling, it’s cheap and it goes like a scramjet. And that makes it a no-brainer. Some people say the Mk 5 isn’t as fun to drive as the original GTI because it’s too big and has electric windows, but they’re wrong. Power comes from a smooth 2 litre turbo motor and is controlled by either a six-speed manual gearbox or better still a DSG paddle change, the only flappy paddle box worth buying. What you get here is a 146mph sports car. And a convenient hatchback. All rolled into one. I’d buy a white one.
And the worst for Hatchback categories, Clarkson's verdict: "Biblically bad" for Perodua Kelisa
Clarkson's Comments – This is without doubt the worst car, not just in its category but in the world. Over three years it will cost you 13.5p per mile. This makes it the cheapest car to run. Fine, but the cheapest house is a small tent. It has a top speed of 88mph but takes so long to reach it that no one has ever lived long enough to verify the claim, the inside is tackier than Anthea Turner’s wedding and you don’t want to think what would happen if it bumped into a lamppost. Also its name sounds like a disease.
This can be view at
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,27909…
P1 do not appear at this website at all! Do Clarkson's "overlook" or totally ignore!
I guess he reviews what he's given. But there are more Protons on the road here compared to Peroduas.
joe
proton as the poor man seeks to find the best partner, so they talk to many ppl as possible. Is it wrong? If they only talk to one party then u the one who condemn them for not talking to the rest.
The move seem to be the last dash if you look at other failed mfr history. However, if the foundation is strong then many survive the dash, but without a shaky foundation then Proton will fold. The foundation required here is strong vendorship (has but questionable) and mfg capability (has but not enough). Tech can be sourced from elsewhere (thus many tech company without mfgf/vendor partnership fold).
From foreign mfr point of view NAP clearly spelt what advantage Proton has, and if u care to read the docs it is not much more then the rest of the mfr. In fact it is very similar to Australia albeit with much higher across the board. It is so different from China mfrg scenario where CKD mfr must source their parts from local vendor.
one more thing, the car that Jeremy wants is something that M'sians don't want. If u read the comments (in this blog or others) then M'sians prefer something like Skoda or Tata of the 80's cheap family car and not sporty hatchback. Thats the reason why TM got booted out.
biggie – I think NAP provide the strongest foundation to P1 even at the expense of consumer welfare, but because of complacent (treat NAP as "birth rights"), lack of R & D, do not innovate and limited resources among others P1 become "sickman of CarTaxLand" rather than world class player.
From best player in the world view point, do you think they will share the tech with you. They sell the end products but not tech, that is the normal behavior of biz organization. Say for example, Do you think the best football club in EPL, Chelsea or MU will be willing to share their best players with say our country best FA Club, Selangor? Do you think any "alliance" even if take place, the condition is Chelsea have to listen to FA Selangor eventhough they put up their resources, expertise and best players? That is what P1 behave right now. P1 is minnow in auto industry by world standard, then have to accept "junior partner" status in the first place, otherwise, future nego likely will be fail!
Looking at current news on quality campaign and nego for "strategic alliance". I am now very convince by P1 "whristle blower" that the quality campaign do not solve overall quality problems as current effort is limited to components on existing aging model, not latest tech on new model! It is more toward boost sales and clear 2005 model stock! For "strategic alliance" is "talk show" aim at uplift the fallen share market. So, current measure by P1 is concentrate on mitigate losses rather than boost income!
TM got booted out because of Savvy! Do SZ will face the same fate if he introduce low budget sportcar in the range of RM 100K jointly develop with Lotus which was announce recently!
joe
wat is NAP? do u read about it or just rant ? how much R&D is enough? how much innovation is enough? P2 and Naza will be better after this as they can put more money into R&D without having to earn it first. Proton use own money for R&D thus the slow process of investing in facilities & ppl.
The best player in the world patent their knowledge thus it is accesible to everyone. Toyota way etc. is available as long as u study, but one need the experience to practice it. This is wat P1 looking for.
Chelsea are willing to lend their spare player to S'ngor as long as S'ngor can fork out the money. This is called a 'loan' scheme. Same as wat P1 doing now looking for better teams spares. VW do not want to give their best car, but special car for ASEAN market. So Proton is looking at the best spare cars, if u don't talk then how will u know. Depending on the company spares can be better then in other market. A Chelsea extra player will be one of the best in M'sian League.
Special cars for ASEAN market is being practised by Toyota and is deemed successful.
How do u know TM got booted out becos of Savvy? Do u have access on how much returns Savvy make per car? From the statements is that he got booted out becos his vision of where P1 is going is not compatible with the rest of the board and to many M'sian as well. In a public forum he admitted as such and the new contract (that he would not sign) means that all decision must be made jointly (he + board)
biggie- If what your argument is hold true, then P1 forever receive "spare player" only given the money they can afford to fork out! So P1 forever can't be independent and don't have the resources to snatch best player from the world? Then P1 show is local standard only and "force" the viewer to accept it, but NAP deny consumers to enjoy EPL game at lowest price – that is the contentious issue!
bigige – "Special cars for ASEAN market is being practised by Toyota and is deemed successful".
Joe Ooi – Yes Toyota is successful in this approach because if you look at their website – they practice "Local Best and World Best". Innovia, Hilux, Fortuner and Vios is "Local Best" mainly for Asean region. Aygo, Yaris, Corrolla Altis, Camry, Avalon, Harrier and luxury segment like Lexus range is the World Best for worldwide market. P1 even can't achieve "Local Best", a lot of complaint lol!
should kill off Proton ASAP they are now making "sandiwara" …better Proton dies first then the 'rakyat" about the thousands of "rakyat" they will be sure other place that you can get a job. the later job for sure better car maker…
a car maker that make a car to sell and let people happy..and off course ar maker will happy when people buy…..but Proton….
"rakyat' forced to buy and super blood sucking price do Proton can get richer and 'rakyat" die everyday…all the time as long as there is Proton car …
Folks,
I think mycar_stolen summed it up quite nicely.
Every one here,
I think they confirm talk only and it will be remain talk, nothing will materialize!……
As long as there are companies then there will be talks. In the case of P1 there are huge amount of money thus it generates interest.
In case of P1 to buy a 'spare player' they need money from domestic market. Customers are forced to give them. But to get the money to be in global market they need money from ASEAN market at the least. That what they are trying to do now, failing that P1 will bungkus.
All major players looking at Toyota strategy and has developed 'spare players' on their own. In order to reduce cost they look at ready made mfg plant. P1 has spare mfg capacity and will like to sell it off; so of course they are talks.
However, what P1 also want is a share of know-how thus it is looking for the partner who want to do that. P1 thinks they have some know how so are selective on the kind of know how that they like to receive.
For thousands of rakyat who suffer they are currently 2.7mil rakyat + 6 township that is built around automotive mfg industry (P1, P2 and Naza).
Hold on boys. While I do agreed that we are all frustrated with P1 which shows that we are concerned about the state of affairs in P1, let us not lose focus on other car makers as well. Take NAZA for example. Even they rebadged proven cars from Korea but in terms of quality, I would definately say .. THEY ARE STILL SHITTY AS P1or even worst off. Problems still crops up especially concerning local parts and assembly. I wud say it not the issue of strategic alliance with this or that party. That is purely bull shit and plain wasting our time. It still has to do with regaining public confidence. That has to be the top agenda. Currently every single car that comes out from P1 factory has a problem. If P1 can eliminate quality issue to lets say every 1000 or even every 10,000 cars . only car defect as per say is detected, then i believe public perception will change as word of mouth is the most powerful marketing tool. By then if P1 wants to have alliance with whoever.. it wud have a better bargining prowness instead of doing it now. Our criticisms shd not have labelled to P1 alone, it shd go to all Malaysian automakers like Naza as well. U will be surprised that quality of Naza cars is more or less comparable to P1. Nothing to shout about. That is where P1 management shd focus upon .. not talking around the world. !
goingberserk
there are two issues concerning quality. It is defect rate as it reaches customer, means that when the customer receive the car it has a defect. This one is about 2 for every thousand. Not perfect but just better then the Korean CKD and on-par with Korean CBU. Its way below P2 though.
The problem with P1 is the reliability of its component. It will start cropping up at about 6 mths (45 of 1000 cars) and more so at 1 year (95 of 1000 cars).Most of the complaints are on comfort related itesm. And P1 simply pass the bucks to vendor during warranty yrs and to customer after. Vendor pay the claims and pass the cost back to P1.
Customer left in a lurch….
Now unde SZ it seem that all P1 vendor have to be certified for relaibility certification, thus they need to ensure that their product is realiable. Sadly only 15% achieve certification; thus the next step is to merge the non-certified comp. so that they can get more capital to improve their mfring line.
biggie – I concur with your comment that there are 2 issues concerning quality on components – upon the customer receive the car and under warranty period, but this should not limited to component only. There are aging model (e.g. Iswara, Wira, Perdana) which in customer perception is "over the shelf lifespan" which P1 need to cease its production and at the same time come out with new model. However, due to "pricing advantage" of these aging models under NAP and P1 unable to come out with new model, then P1 have "to do what they can do" – "half bread is better than none", is a sad truth.
joe
under NAP P1 need to introduce new model to get G money !!!
The aging model is still there as there are strong demand from customer + P1 making more profit from this model then newer ones.