Proton previously announced their new partnerships will be revealed by the end of April. It’s a week into May now, but The Edge has reported quoting unnamed sources that Proton’s new partner will be French automobile company PSA Peugeot Citroen.
Proton and PSA Peugeot Citroen
It’s not known whether talks involve an equity transfer, but what is revealed are plans to jointly develop a small car for the Southeast Asian market that could be marketed under either brand. It is believed that the car would be similiar to the Peugeot 106, which was a small hatchback.
The Peugeot 106’s sister was the Citroen Saxo, which was developed to replace the Citroen AX. The Citroen AX of course, was rebadged locally as a Proton Tiara. The Peugeot 106 has since been replaced by the Peugeot 107 (Citroen C1), which shares a platform with the Toyota Aygo. A small car like this could very well replace the Proton Iswara as Proton’s staple offering for the budget market, if it was a sedan instead of a hatchback. Of course, do not misunderstand the mention of the Peugeot 106. It doesn’t mean Proton will be rebadging Peugeot 106 cars, I think it was just used in the report as a reference as to what car Proton and Peugeot would be building together. PSA Peugeot Citroen’s French competitor Renault has a budget automobile developed together with Romanian car manufacturer Dacia, called the Renault Logan, which is basically a Dacia Logan – a Renault Clio platform with a boot. Peugeot could be thinking along the lines of the same strategy Renault has used to enter the budget car market.
Proton officials could not be reached for comment, but sources say that senior management of both companies have met and a memorandum could be signed in a few month’s time. But PSA is not the only company that Proton is in talks with.
Proton and Volkswagen AG
New negotiations with Volkswagen AG have been on-going, and rumours are that Proton might set up a joint-venture company with Volkswagen AG to jointly develop Proton-badged cars to be sold across South-east Asia and India. Word is that it would be a 49:51 joint venture between Proton and Volkswagen, with Volkswagen having the majority share. Two Proton-Volkswagen JV cars are in the pipelines and they will be based on a Volkswagen platform. When asked about the report, Volkswagen spokespersons repeated what it’s CEO had said previously, that any future plans with Proton would be to support Proton only, with no joint ventures or joint programs.
We’ll have to wait for official news from Proton then on whether these reports are true or not, as The Edge did not name a source for the news. I’m really eager for any new updates on where Proton’s heading, as well as eagerly awaiting the launch of the Satria Replacement Model.
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Well I don't mind paying 30-45k for a better quality new car. Hopefully these cars would be quieter and have more power together with with good fuel efficiency.
GET REAL proton,
JV with VW,
don;t wait,
and deliver PRIDE to rakyats
like SKODA!
(then u 20years sin will be condoled)
as for proton-peogeout 106 model,
is PROTON Nuts, again!
with savy, satria new,
what is the point of bring in new compact like 106.
Unless proton is selling it at rm 30K range!
to strike back at perodua!
dunno what to saylah.. but heard enuf horror stories from tiara & peugeot owners.. wait and see lah…
Another repeated "old joke" by P1! Nothing to do except a lot of talking! Where is announcement on alliance with Mits, India and China company?
Repeated comment – desperate design to prop up P1 falling share!
I'm looking positive on this news, Peugeot Citroen alliances anyway sound better than to join with Mahindra la, Chery la blah blah…
Go go, SZ! U have my vote right at this moment, don't turn us down!
Yealah.. tired with the old joke!! not funny anymore.. Mampuslah poton.. i guess this year will be their worst… but pity the poton salesman.. trying very hard to get sales.. i try to find 1 good reason to buy poton, but cannot find one.. sorrylah.. even poton salesman dont drive a poton… why should us?
suggestion to poton: Give 5 years full warranty for your cars…
it is very clear that the Japanese has not trust in Proton qnymore that they have to seek tie with those second rated Europe marque.
When it come to quality and relibility you just can't beat the Japanese.
Be prepared to pay foe expensive parts and services.
Proton can give the world but I just lost faith in the quality of its product.
hold your horses folks,.. lets here the details first…
for me, as long as the collaboration makes money, its a good one..
i am just sceptical on how much tech transfer involve
Strategic Alliance – Talking come out from P1, our biz The edge report it, Forbes and Reuter quote it fro The Edge and still remain in circle, NATO – no action talking only!
Fedup with these quality campaign and "strategic alliance" news already, keep on coming out from P1, repeat and keep on repeating again with no "light at the end of tunnel"! Never in the car company history with such news related to its problems on operation so frequently.
Other car players like P2 busy with MyVi delivery, or Toyota keep on coming out with news on new models to meet the expectation of car consumers, only P1 doing the talk cock!
"it is very clear that the Japanese has not trust in Proton qnymore that they have to seek tie with those second rated Europe marque."
Toyota collaborated with Peuqeot recently and built a small car.
hey joe, so what should proton do? lets say you took over the company today. would love to hear your views.
problem with Proton is avoiding being swallowed by the bigger company
Joe.. potons busy oso u know??.. they r busy counting stocks!!! hahaha… this year you wont forget poton.. goin to be your worst sales of the year!!!… hahahah.. Thx to your ex CEO, TM and his gang.. kesian SZ… lucky have NAZA Sutera, if not i wud say poton worst cars of the year….
b4 that,
proton should now do the following:
– sell savvy at rm30k, gen2 35K,
as nobody is buying, stocks PILING,
the plant is idle (1 million capacity),
staffs are relaxing…
COME On!
If proton and vw agree to a jv and leave production management to vw it will be a win win for all. This and NAP will create only 1 smart choice for the majority of consumers. Think they should really leave the small car market to P2 and concentrate on making a good family sedan at the 50-60k level which is what a jv with vw would produce.
Rather than having so many different incompatible platforms (old Mitsu satria, wira etc, Renault savvy and now Peugeot something), Proton should think of a tie up in which they can develop a platform that they can share across the ranges and compatible with their campro engines without needing any modifications.
That would certainly give them better economies of scale for one thing. Still, would that be enough to get into the overseas markets without the "rakyat" having to subsidize the exportation of national cars?
honda_driver said – "hey joe, so what should proton do? lets say you took over the company today. would love to hear your views."
If I am in that position, the following are the reality: –
1. Proton have to face the market reality and acknowledge they are junior partner, lack of innovaiton and R & D with limited resources and market penetration for it low quality and aging products yet do not competitve.
2. Do not rest on "national car status" and NAP to use as excuse to sustain its operation.
The 2 option whic is viable and in the best interest of P1 long term survival are: –
1. Have "strategic alliance" with world class players by equity take-up by them including majority share by foreigner (become junior partner – subsidiary), or some thing arrangement similar to P2.
2. Explore and become contract assembler for other manufacturer. In the eye of best player like Toyota, Honda, Mercs, VW or BMW, Proton are nuts!
3. Cease producing "new model" because Proton never produce new model in true sense, all through rebadge or acquire old model and remodified it to introduce as "new model" in our market. The volume of P1 is too small to achieve economic of scale. Do like NAZA, rebadge and put "license by ….." is more honest!
4. Abandon "national car project" and NAP by embrace open market to attract FDI in auto sector which will benefit more!
Nothing to feel shy or lost of face as P1 current existence is a liability to rakyat! not create wealth to nation. The sooner it take the above action is better to everybody! G, car consumers, tax payers, etc.
49:51 VW. What made them U-turn all of the sudden?
based on edgeweekly reported:
– with Rm1bil cast, proton can;t develop new models and surive long term
– savvy sedan / gen2 sedan will replace iswar and wira in mid-2007! (on top of SRM)
– mitsubishi perdana coming out end2006!
TO me,
there are no points of proton "sleeping" with so many mates:
chinese, indian, french, german….proton is out of CASH for new joint development.
– Let the VW-JV come thru,
i know German make good car (no kampong folks)
JUST grasp it,
before german change mind!
oldMAN is gone!
Pak lah should just DO it!
Will Proton ever go away? I dont think so. Does anybody else think so in the next say, 5 years? What we can probably hope for is a better quality proton thats all. Sign up with VW and get that quality issue fixed!! I dont care who they copy/borrow from, just make some improvements laaa… Lets face it, G's not going to let go of Proton and open up the automotive market anytime soon.
Proton…. now is yr best time to perform…
pls dont play play…. also dont any how let go yr gas….
final reaady….
on VW deal:
it said the VW PLATFORM for proton is ready,
and can be PUT into PRODUCTION
in a matter of MONTHS!!
( i guess it mean the "old-passat/ jetta like SKODA models
for PROTON)
We can LIVE with that!
COME On proton! GeT REAL!
It is the fact that proton will not close any sooner, not in 5 to 10 yrs… Just hope they have jv with VW, and build a reliable and quality car, we need that… so many companies, only mits and vw are the one that can trust.
Eventhough I hope the proton can close soon, then we can get the cheaper car, maybe g will always impose the import tax, but it should be cheaper than now :)
GT27-If Proton operate at current structure and losing money even under draconian protective NAP CarTaxLand, then it won't last more than 2 years from now?
From macro economic perspective, P1 is not competitive even in domestic market protected under NAP. Nothing to say about export market as they are micro minnow! Of course P1 won't close 5 or 10 years from now but other factor like ownership/partnership/alliance is inevitable! The domestic market can't sustain P1 as evident from other P2 and P3 products eat into P1 turf. This provide final blow to P1 market expansion locally. Export wise, P1 can't face the dog-eat-dog yet brutal international market and will swallow up by the steely jaw of world class players like Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Ford, GM, VW, etc?
We don't talk about P1 go to European or US market. Can P1 products say export to new emerging market like China, India, Thailand, etc? If you go to northern haven – Hadyai, we even hardly see Mitsubishi Lancer on the road, most of the car are tut-tut, Hilux, Frontier, etc.
motorhead said,
Joe.. potons busy oso u know??.. they r busy counting stocks!!! hahaha…
Joe said,
motorhead.. I oso know they are very busy??.. apart from they r very busy counting stocks, they oso talk very hard to push up the share price!!! he he he …….
If we stop buying proton, they will forced to close it.
jv with peugeot ahh?
naza has took the 206 alredi…
wat model that are sellable left to copycat?
out-of -production 406.. 306? good car.. but a bit old lah the design..
not 106.. its too dated.
don't believe Peugeot wanna give Proton license for 207, 307, 407, 807.
its excellent if it is, but don't make business sense.
all in all, doesn't sound convincing lah Proton-PSA Peugeot partnership.
Perhaps they try-try talk only. Mana tau kan… (indicate their desperation even more to us all).
Good luck la SZ…
Potong bungkus pun "Aiman tak kesah".. (no pun intended to the real Aiman).
Prime. Having a good platform strategy and defined vehicle class won't help Proton break into the international market but its a good starting point. The idea is not just to reduce costs but to provide a clear indication of their target markets. Wira, Waja and Gen2 are just too similar. Well maybe the Waja is a bit further from the other two but they'd still be competing amongst themselves.
If the current QC drive is truly implemented rather than being just a marketing ploy then Proton would stand to gain a lot whether or not there's a JV. As it stands its unlikely that a JV partner would let Proton immediately start production of new models. So what if we get an old Passat platform, its still going to fall apart if the quality control is still so slack.
I personally feel that we stand to lose more from Proton going out of business than prospering. It won't die a sudden death. It'll drag out over a long period of time and within that period of time the Government after having kept it alive for so long would stubbornly refuse to let it die and pump in more money. Taxpayers money. And when it finally does die we probably won't be around to benefit from it. Maybe our future generations would but I'd be pissed if my grandkids drove around in a pretty sports car while I'm stuck with a lousy compact car.
BTW what I said are my opinions and is purely speculative. I can't prove shit about what I just said *smiley*
btw intermilan, in case you didnt realise, naza is just an assembler.
Why do you think they are getting the 206? because its an absolete model, and naza is helping peuqeot clear old stocks. there is nothing more than that.
We may hate proton, but at the end of the day, they are still a full blown manufacturer, and there are only 3 other countries in asia who can claim to have car manufacturers. If peuqeot were to work together with proton, i'm pretty sure they will be getting a whole lot more than what naza is getting today.
Guys. Hold ur horses ! Just heard the news that VW is holding back on Malaysia plans due to the NAP !. Probably any talks with P1 as well. So that potential alliance is probably GONE.
Sit back and listen to wut they will going to say…
P/S: Poton: please make sure you do the rite thing(s)
kap ceh bo iong, zho ceh ka uh iong
hope proton will produce a better quality cars in the future…not jz like now..u can surf at this site.. .www.autozine.org…www.topgear.com….jz see the comment and verdict frm all journalist…pity proton…buat malu je…
No more "ALLIANCE" with other manufacturer is possible but "P1 become ALIEN" to othe manufacturer" is probable!
honda_driver,
its good to know that you realise naza are just assembling the 206.
naza until now and foreseable future would most probably remain one coz the business model works for them.
FYI, heard that Peugeot are serious in ensuring the Quality of the finished product is maintain. If naza assembling screw-up, Peugeot will be burned too. They couldn't afford that.
whether the 206 obsolete or not is less of a point. if it is accepted and viewed by the masses as not obsolete, why not? to make the point stick, PSA Peugeot Citroen has announced that production of 206 will continue even through they have announced the arrival of 207. They also stressed that 207 is not going to replace 206 but some sort of continuation of 206. It make business sense coz 206 sells… a lot. They best selling model ever.
Believe your are taking the timeline of 206 production as basis. For that point of view 1998-99 to 2006 is a long time, but the car still can give on-looker the 'look' what. anyhow, i'm shocked that naza managed to pull this kind of coup.. diam-diam saja.. bravo to them.
If anybody have driven or tumpang in a 206, you'll notice that the technology they put inside a 206 is still pretty 'current'. In fact, its way much better that a lot of new car in the market. Additionally, Naza is going to assemble the 'facelift' version of the 206, not the earlier version of it. Heard it gonna be lauched on 18 May, go check it out at the showroom.. heard it is RM68K OTR..
The engine might be the middle end spec (1.4L 8v 90bhp) as in EU there are 1.1L engine, but IMHO, the overall offering matched to a great extent what the masses are asking for in a car.
nevertheless it must be warned that anybody that drive japanese car exclusively might be 'shocked' at the way the auto gearbox behaves. basically, the gearbox wll make sure the drive 'know' when certain gear is dropped. The engine braking is felt much more in this car compared to let say the honda accord. some people say the French follow their own idea when it come to how gearbox should behave..
The driving style / approach / philosophy is different.
Regarding proton, if Peugeot gonna JV with them…. emm …as mentioned earlier… not much choice left in term of model. they gonna strike gold if Peugeot will share the latest x07 platform with them. Its never happened. Personally, i think if PSA Peugeot Citroen want to share, they might give Citroen models rather the Peugeot ones.
cyborgx said,
May 8, 2006 @ 11:46 pm
If we stop buying proton, they will forced to close it.
yes..agree with you "JUST STOP BUYING PROTON LET THEM DIE..PEAFULLY" so all of us can have better discussion on motoring…and no more "Proton Bashing Forum" JUST LET THEM DIE" I am very sure all of us can live without Proton…SAY BYE BYE PROTON.
p/s as the NAP are totally useless and the bankers are capitalist…people have to use people power…."stop buying Proton"
mycar_stolen, you have voiced out things which many of us dared not say.
mycar_stolen said – I am very sure all of us can live without Proton…SAY BYE BYE PROTON.
I agree 100% , and I believe you will 100% agree with me if I say Proton can't live without us …. let Proton die its "natural course".
The problem is not everyone has the financial mobility to choose. Sure they can buy Perodua but if they need a sedan where're they going to go?
Frankly speaking, P1 will not "close". it is bcoz our G will support in order to "lose face".. this is the fact. only thing to do.. wait for P1 to improve their R&D team.
P/S: P1, pls dun "duduk dan tunggu buah jatuh dari langit".
Keep producing outdated model. change facelift, add skirting, spoiler, sport rim = new model?
G commited to AFTA, WTO, etc which will embrace open market. At least, P1 have to tie up with other manufacturer or change of ownership is inevitable eventhough it may not close. Say next 10 years, P1 identity compare to today, will change tremendously! No more "national car status" and NAP!
Yep it will not close but at the rate they're burning money and losing market share the rakyat will end up paying for it somehow. Lower the petrol subsidy.. I'm sure the G will think of something.
It will definitely be good if they can improve quality. MY has the biggest car market and lots of manufacturers want to come in. P1 needs more time to improve to compete. The question is how long we gotta wait for a definitive conclusion. Pass or Fail? Until such a time there will always be barries to entry for foreign cars. Dont hope for a free mkt until the above decision has been made. Methinks its gonna be at least 5-10 years.
PS – Here's a test Case , anyone think G's gonna let Toyota sell the Rush for 60k in malaysia? Its a mini type compact suv 1.5litre. Allegedly going to be released in the later part of this year…
If ASEAN car assemble in Thailand or bring in as CKD, then it is possible, as G hand is tie to AFTA!
If that happens get ready to pay for the losses that proton is gonna take when they lose even more mkt share to toyota….
But seriously not gonna be 60k they'll find some way to make it 70 or 75k.
nowayout said,
May 11, 2006 @ 9:57 pm
Frankly speaking, P1 will not “closeâ€. it is bcoz our G will support in order to “lose faceâ€.. this is the fact. only thing to do.. wait for P1 to improve their R&D team.
but according to the rule of a business…any business started can stop…or bankcrupt…e.g
big company run by father later took over by playboy son..also can bankcrupt
if Msian buying
if MSian buying the Proton…for the last 20 years.(but Proton never appreciate Msian,power window problems never solve)
we also can help them by not buying them…but I think you also need to face the facts that the Proton wont improve..their R&D is Rest and Die…
p/s sometime very pity on Msian who for me is too much optimistic with Proton…OnCE bITTEN tWICE sHY….