According to The Edge, it’s sources have informed them of an upcoming due diligence audit on Proton assets sometime this month. Analysts think that the exercise marks a significant milestone in the Proton-Volkswagen talks as such an exercise is normally only carried out if major issues in the discussion have been ironed out.
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After dabbling for years in the IT industry, Paul Tan initially began this site as a general blog covering various topics of personal interest. With an increasing number of readers paying rapt attention to the motoring stories, one thing led to another and the rest, as they say, is history.
Comments
Who will care about Proton news anymore, somemore wanna have wat ” Take a peek at our PRIDE..?” wat a shame… Wat ppl care now is they don take gov money anymore :))
0 
0Dear joeysis ‘basher’,
Shut Up!!! Just wait for the car to come out…
If you know so much, send your resume to proton, get employed then design your dream car!!!
0 0i do think that the partnership btw proton and the foreign partner will be announced on the launching date of the upcoming model.
0 0due diligent audit on Proton asset!!!!!
Do all of you read this line – VW is interesting in Tg. Malim plant only …….
0 0Sources from The Edge again, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, …………………….
0 0I don’t know what the heck the said audit is all about. But I see it as a means for Proton to announce something positive. May be things really are turning around in a positive way for them.
0 0I can see that Proton is aggressively rebuild their brand lately.Quite numbers of efforts have been taken and initiatives have been announced.Among those are:
1) New/Gen2 Sedan is due coming this mid-Aug with competitive pricing
2) Collaboration with Youngman to penetrate Chinese market with Gen2
3) Launching of BLM early next year
4) Launching of MPV around early 2009
5) I-Care
6) Prospect of setting up assembly plant in Mid East.not sure which country
7) Savvy service part’s pricing reduction
Perhaps it’s too early too judge but i think it’s not too early for me to congratulate Datuk Syed Zainal in advance for walking his talk.Seems that Proton actually can stand up independently…if it really wanted to.All it needs is a strong root that is excellent leadership. About tying with VW or not, now i tend to say either will be fine..haha.Proton’s assets ?….wow looks delicious ! Anyway ganbare…You did good job, we praise…you did bloody lousy job,hehe we bash like hell.
0 0Maybe BPR is checking whether got ppl inside proton makan too much or not? Nowadays, a lot of high officer can drive BMW n Merc. Even their gaji is less then RM5k.. Or worst scenario, if proton up coming model fail again.. They gonna lelong their proton asset one by one? I think they might be checking for the real proton asset, technology or model left in the company…
0 0“To maximise the cost potential of the Malaysian industry, VW will attempt to maximise its use of local content, but will adhere to strict German standards of quality.” Wow! This will be good! More TUV standard cars inPproton! Go VW!
0 0All hopes on VW now…Gov should not care so much about ‘jaga muka’ already when looking for a saviour…Forget about the 51%….will loose more face if VW pull-out and left dying….
0 0joeysis said,
August 8, 2007 @ 10:15 pm
Who will care about Proton news anymore, somemore wanna have wat †Take a peek at our PRIDE..?†wat a shame… Wat ppl care now is they don take gov money anymore :))
___________________________________________________________________________
better proton take government money and provide jobs then government spend money on stupid things and fill their own pockets.
0 0Hopefully everything will be ok… If they screw up, we still got P2 mah…
torishimeyakuin,
I’d got an order doing the signboard for some government office. Paid was good and I ask why all the rush…they said MB datang. He also joked that toilets were especially clean and front office staff were briefed about smiling issue…
xylencia,
Once they are in the cow dung, they ask for money until they are out of it. Don’t worry honey, they had all your money proportionated how many percent go to where and how many percent feeds who…
0 0Are The Edge doing free promotion for P1 ?
or The Edge owns P1 share ?
all these stories from The Edge would benefit P1 share value!
soon P1 share will rise again…. Good Luck!
0 0“it’s sources” LoL again. This is a joke man. “Analysts think” haha.
0 0torishimeyakuin, i totally agree with what you’ve said.
it proves that the mangement have not been sitting idle all this time. Only the people who do not read anything will disagree with you.
i’m waiting to see what happens next as you are too, but i believe the picture will be much clearer by end of this year at the latest.
0 0The EDGE……..hahaha………another tabloid or entertainment magazibe…….Pity who reads it………
0 0I see some interest in the news about Proton which is good. However, most if not all, the comments are negative rather than constructive. Proton provides direct and indirect employment to close to a hundred thousand Malaysians through its manufacturing, R&D, supply chain and distribution network. Add the families to these employees and almost half a million Malaysians are dependant on Proton for survival. Closing down the company is the easist solution but creates a bigger problem… I hope this helps to add some perspective to the Proton issue.
0 0Major issue ironed out – could it be not related to the P1-VW talks at all?
xylencia,
I agree that the government shouldn’t be spending so much on crappy expenditures. However, I also think that Proton’s role solely as a “jobs-provider” is not good too. The way I see it now, it is indeed only a “jobs-provider” instead of a motoring passion. Low build quality + expensive spare parts + relatively expensive selling price + frequent ‘minor’ repairs (repairing and servicing are two very different words), where the heck does all the money go?
I wake up in the morning everyday and look at my Proton in my car porch, I sit inside and start the engine, I start driving and and in less than 100m, I curse the company for producing such a car. My Waja 1.8 automatic ‘box is pretty f**ked up, to say the least. Glenmarie and Mutiara service centres can not solve the problem for more than 1 year now.
0 0TUV should be implemented on assembly line and the PRODUCTS. It helps if Volks agree, and disastrous if they don’t. What I’m looking for are mamak stall jokes about the joint-venture :)
0 0Same stupid lies again
“Proton take Govt money”
Proton does not take govt money, it gets a discount of the excise duty just like perodua but unlike perodua it spend more money locally via rnd spending and more local parts unlike P2 that buys from their japanese owners.
0 0joesis…if u dont care about proton ,how come u gave comments..u should nt be bothered,right?Go out..have some fun…
0 0narrowband
I understand that the Waja 1.8 transmission is not made at Proton but sourced from Renault. You should write directly to Datuk Syed Zainal with your problem…it is what I would do if I were in your shoes.
I have been using my Waja 1.6 for the last three years without any problems. Maybe I was lucky but total Waja sold in Malaysia must have exceeded 200,000 units since it was first launched in 2000.
0 0VW and Proton: BMW and Rover re-visited.
When you thought BMW-Rover merger was the best classical management disaster case study for business students, VW-Proton will gonna be the worst of it all one way or another. Initially, it’s just like an almost dead tree(PROTON) with parasites(cronies faulty-autoparts supplier) all over but some delusioned gardener(VW) try to take it as garden art deco/ dead tree branch as garden deco, inspired by some TV gardening episodes(TM/Tengku Mahalel’s ambitous/fictious presentation from laptop to prospect investors/VW few years ago—the world’s greatest fiction story from TM!). But then the gardener found out the tree is so rot/infested right to the roots(the audit reveals the unworthiness of Proton), it’s not worth to make it a deco. In the end, the gardener will take the tree for kayu api instead.
But hey, BMW afford to spend and lose few bazillions for taking Rover, so for VW taking Proton it is either a blind faith or lunaticly-driven vision. It’s not a surprise for VW being a lunatic as VW once lead by a lunatic leader called grand ayatollah hitler. It’s always a lunatic for being a VW.
As for Rover now being taken by some dude from Jiangling with ego feed from expired tofu pickles(that make you sick), it’s called Roewe. Sick right?
Not quite as Proton later on also gonna be dispose off to some China pricks and change name to Protten. It’s simply rotten to the root.
0 0gonggok
Proton takes our money from EPF investment. You were born yesterday or what?
0 0Huhu,.. nice lead up to World War III on PT’s blog… Aug 16 2007.
What’s a “diligence audit”?
Proton hasnt been “taking govt money” as most people seem to believe. Yes, they did use about RM40m (as VSS payouts to some dealers) from the 500m budget for the ninth msia plan to develop the local car industry. They are currently in the red. 500m is nothing really in a trillion dollar economy. Proton has provided jobs and promoted local industry. Money is recycled internally to the local economy.
Before you accuse proton of “taking govt/rakyat money”, do give people some PERSPECTIVE on the issue. It’s not like proton is using taxpayer money or sucking up EPF funds. (The govt actually did use EPF funds for something once… but that was a different issue not related to Proton).
As usual, the proton critics – superhumans with clairvoyance and extra special powers (ESP) – have foreseen the future. Proton is doomed. lol.
If you wonder why the govt is so keen on keeping Proton alive, think about this: About 200,000 waja’s have been sold. If proton didnt exist… and Corolla’s cost RM75k, RM15,000,000,000 would have been spent on a foreign car instead of a local car… Ok, maybe 1/3 of that went to OTR costs… but still… that’s RM10,000,000,000 (10,000m) going to workers overseas. And that’s only for the waja… what about other categories of cars? So The govt budgeted RM500m to protect the local car industry in RMK9.
Dont lose perspective ppl…
0 0So many people are talking about Proton is crap. They themselves are talking crap too meaning no constructive comments. Just let Proton make the announcements.
Sorry Paul, I know below no comcern about the topic you post but I have to say these:
By complaning the transmission found in Proton not good, you guys better complaint to Mitsubishi instead. Not many car manufacturer produce their own transmission that include Mercedes Benz and BMW. They get it from the transmission manufacturers. Do you know that?
Always talking about the power windows failure in Proton cars. Yes, but not every car from Proton have the same problem(s) and any Savvy and Satria Neo owners complaint about the car? If yes, how many compare with Waja and Gen.2? Do you guys think Toyota cars power windows never fail? My friend’s Toyota Vios power window also failed 3 days ago and the car only less than 2 years old. Last time he owned Waja and just because the door opener / handle broke he bashing Proton cars like hell. I gave him a tutorial lesson as no car manufacturers produce 100% perfect cars. Sometimes car manufacturers can not detect all the defect parts. All the vendors which supply parts have their own quality control department.
One more thing, not all same product have the same quality and lifespan such as suspension systems even though quality control do take place. It is quite difficult to know when it will fail as wear and tear is part of the reason. In Proton cars suspension case don’t just bash Proton blindly. Give me simple example: computer hard drive. Why same brand and same model have different lifespan? Some will last more than 5 years as the manufacturers claimed and some will last not more than 2 years before bad sectors found.
0 0Cyborx…what EPF money has proton taken?
Show proof or stop it.
0 0“Proton hasnt been “taking govt money†as most people seem to believe. Yes, they did use about RM40m (as VSS payouts to some dealers) from the 500m budget for the ninth msia plan to develop the local car industry. They are currently in the red. 500m is nothing really in a trillion dollar economy.”
–Again (after lazy problematic govt workers), govt is giving rewards for being a loser/failure? Money-evaporates-into-thin-air policy?
“Money is recycled internally to the local economy.”
–And mostly to cronies faulty-autoparts suppliers. Or some mullah called it the great satan suppliers.
“Before you accuse proton of “taking govt/rakyat moneyâ€, do give people some PERSPECTIVE on the issue. It’s not like proton is using taxpayer money or sucking up EPF funds. (The govt actually did use EPF funds for something once… but that was a different issue not related to Proton).”
–Bad thief in denial. (“Common sense is not so common” – Voltaire)
“As usual, the proton critics – superhumans with clairvoyance and extra special powers (ESP) – have foreseen the future. Proton is doomed. lol.”
–Nope, just normal humans that need car with the best value for money.
“If you wonder why the govt is so keen on keeping Proton alive, think about this: About 200,000 waja’s have been sold. If proton didnt exist… and Corolla’s cost RM75k, RM15,000,000,000 would have been spent on a foreign car instead of a local car… Ok, maybe 1/3 of that went to OTR costs… but still… that’s RM10,000,000,000 (10,000m) going to workers overseas. And that’s only for the waja… what about other categories of cars? So The govt budgeted RM500m to protect the local car industry in RMK9.”
–Sounds more like TM’s magical laptop presentation with title,
“My World’s Greatest Fiction–Endless Synergy Benefits If Merged With Proton”
0 0hameed koyakuti, its very very obvious you don’t read the edge or do any reading for that matter.
Its actually malaysia’s no.1 independent financial paper(daily). Yes, they do have other publications related to the arts, and entertainment as well.
Max88 – if you wanna make comments, at least show some intelligent thought la. your comments are a joke, nothing but speculation, hearsay.. etc.
0 0Some comments were made just for the sake of making a comment. If one does not know about something, pls go and ask the experts before posting any comments. Just because you have never heard of “The Edge” newspaper and “due diligence” or do not how a public listed company being managed, pls do not insult your own intelligence by leaving a comment which is not impressive at all.
0 0BanyakMasukWorkshop: I used to subscribed to the paper, but not anymore…..since they publish a lot of crap/lies especially about things that i know personally…..
And i know some of their reporters were on some corporation payroll to speculate and drive the counters………
BanyakMasukWorkshop: there is a lot of other ways to obtained financial news, the edge is just another tiny source of it………
My speculation: this rumors will drive Proton’s counter and good for short term profit takers. But when VW confirms the merger/takeover, the share price will only increase gradually…….
0 0Dude
Bashers seemed to be filled with idealist who live on a parallel universe next to ours. They are not really here or there. They enter through a portal contrived from disparity and inability to handle the real world. Sometimes they sneak through a Vexed window and write comments on blogs, press enter and sneak through the Vexed window again. There’s a limited time available accessible per day for each basher. Therefore, less time is spent in Real World and therefore have limited access to information.
0 0as i said earlier.. we can only wait and see.. i dont like to speculate on something when i dont have all the facts.
0 0“They are not really here or there. They enter through a portal contrived from disparity and inability to handle the real world…. Therefore, less time is spent in Real World and therefore have limited access to information.”
–That’s best describe Proton’s vision: by not listening to the REAL market needs but instead producing unwanted bad fugly products. Look at Proton Tiara, Juara, Gen2, Savvy, Arena(God, did they produce that hideous Jumbuck Arena, unbelieveable!). Wish they just come up with their Europa sportscar? to complete their line up of clowns car.
pROTon…bad to the bone. Nop, rot to the bone.
0 0Toyota produces fugly models but still their products can sell………….
Proton needs to do a lot of market research…….a lot of it……..
Suka apa la lu mau buat Proton, in the end, cash in must be more than cash out to survive……..
0 0the best of all..
whenever PROTON appear in this blog… it attract lots of people.. and talking mainly about the same from the previous topic…
1. Proton suck gov money
2. proton quality
3. Proton better die
4. power window problem
0 0what’s wrong with this topic?
i see more criticis between each other more than on the topic.
come on guys, focus on the topic.. try not to put too much emosional during typing.
u will spoilt this blog
0 0All i know Proton isn’t a company waiting on its ass for a knight with shining armour. It’s doing stuff to get to the bottom of things; that it is an engineering company with a marketing front that makes and sells vehicles. The persona is coming out in a few days time. Come 1st quarter next year the BLM which will replace the Saga, due to end this November (the manufacturing line is being upgraded as we speak). If sales pick up God willing, the money will be used to fund its maiden MPV project, due in 2009. Already, mules are being built with from a well known donor vehicle to conduct feasibility studies. It’s definitely not sitting around doing nothing.
0 0Max88 said,
August 9, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
“They are not really here or there. They enter through a portal contrived from disparity and inability to handle the real world…. Therefore, less time is spent in Real World and therefore have limited access to information.â€
–That’s best describe Proton’s vision: by not listening to the REAL market needs but instead producing unwanted bad fugly products. Look at Proton Tiara, Juara, Gen2, Savvy, Arena(God, did they produce that hideous Jumbuck Arena, unbelieveable!). Wish they just come up with their Europa sportscar? to complete their line up of clowns car.
pROTon…bad to the bone. Nop, rot to the bone.
————————————————————————–
Tell my which car manufacturer never producing bad fugly products? Let me tell you something. Mercedes Benz did too by producing the R Class which didn’t sell well. For you, you will say is a superb car but is a NO NO.
One more thing, please give constructive comments instead of throwing rubbish inside Paul’s forum.
Cheers all.
0 0Call fugly products just because you don’t see many of the car on the road at your area (or Malaysia road) doesn’t mean it is the same in other countries. For MB R Class that was really fugly car as it didn’t sell well worldwide.
Anyway, please stick to the topic. Everytime about Proton there are so many people giving crap comments. If you like other brands so much why I seldom see them post some comments on it?
Always waiting until Proton topics out, than start bashing blindly.
0 0bad to the bone.rot to the bone..max88 writing about himself
0 0Wow, there are many ‘basher’ and more ‘bash the basher’ sent here, there are also a lot of denial syndrom patients here…..but never change the fact…waste of time…
0 0Some arguments arised whether Proton has ever taken or used or been using (or whatever terms you wanna apply here) government/people monies. Guys, this kind of bickering should not be initiated at the first place. The answer is too obvious.Somehow it couldn’t stop me from spreading the fact.Hopefully this will clear all the dubious smoke.
Hehe…it’s crystal clear that Proton itself is a GLC. Its 3 major shareholders are the entities which directly affect Malaysian at large.
1) Khazanah Nasional Bhd holds 38.32%.
No need to introduce what kind of stuff is this, i suppose. Since the Prime Minister of Malaysia sits in there as the chairman has explained everything. This Government-owned unlisted public limited company is the investment holding arm of the government of Malaysia and a trustee to the nation’s financial assets.
2) Employees Provident Fund Board with 10.93%.
I believe you guys know better about this stuff than me.So no further explanation needed i suppose.
3) Petroliam Nasional Berhad aka Petronas with 6.50%
This one mega PUBLIC company is wholly owned by the Malaysian Government.
These 3 entities alone yield 55.75%. How about others such as PNB, Lembaga Tabung Haji (eventhough not all Malaysians but quite big numbers of Malaysian people have their monies in these two entities).So where do you think Proton will pump out its financial resources when it’s in need?.
Ok, let’s change the music. Some other guys in other hand always keep on lamenting such as “just shut down Proton and close the bloody shop”.Should you look at the thing from a realist point of view and just try to think independently without any influence of harsh emotion, believe me…that’s not going to happen. Yes Proton has a lot of trouble, a lot of issues and it is even be deemed by some people as the betrayer but undeniably Proton has very high potential.With its attractive assets it will lure any ‘capitalist’ or ‘smart investor’ to grab when they got any chance to do it. If they eventually really want to close or sell off Proton to anybody interested, it’s fine….but please let me be the first one to know about the offer.
However to any corporation/company, the most important asset is the human s behind it.The most problematic element within Proton is the men behind it.They are the one who determine what Proton is.A bunch of bloody morons already sufficient to demolish Proton.I ain’t talking cock here but sadly to say politics (cronysm and nepotism alike) in the company really spread shite out of it.
See where all the market sentiments,all the fuss,all the juicy news lead to:
http://www.proton.com/about_proton/investor_relations/share_price.php
http://biz.thestar.com.my/marketwatch/charts/l.asp?code=5304~PROTON&p1=5.5&p2=5.55&p3=5.6&p4=5.45&p5=5.5&p6=0&p7=0.00&p8=1819&p9=59.884
You judge yourself…
0 0The Unicons, wong and ezralimm,
i totally agree with you guys..too bad many dont know and dont look at the bigger picture..and some dont really want to see proton becoming an establish marque…reason…i dont really know…but they are always proud of japanese make as if they are from their own country…
Max88,
you comments dont make sense in many way..previously you said proton were using money from EPF and now you are saying VW taking over proton is going to be a massive failure…you know why BMW sold Rover??the first reason is….the british people…they are very similar to malaysian in many ways…firstly the love bashing their own product and some blind basher like ours…they were expect Rover to produce car on par with BMW which doesnt make sense at all and if they do Rover will be a premium car and cant cater a wide market and reach the poor and young people…so british people were so unhappy and did not buy a rover claiming it low quality,low tech and ugly design..they were bechmarking it with BMW which lead to selling Rover and they dont bother if rover were to sell or what…many similarity with malaysian…they dont really know whats going on but talk as if they know it all…and the best part is…malaysian like the negative story only…for example…many will complain and spread the negative news bout proton car,power window problem,low quality and etc but good qualities of proton car will just die and many wont know…waja was the best handling car in its class when it was first launched..but many wont know that…and many dont like talking or hearing bout that…even our football team is like the england team, all style and glamour but end result is failure…many blame the FA and etc…but they look at the bigger picture…even the media has more news bout EPL than over own soccer news…so there will be less interest in malaysia football and when there is no interest less crowd..and players dont have a feel of support and when there is a big game..the players feek the pressure if there is a big crowd and this directly affect their game…same like british media…why do they have to bother if their coach is having an affair or a friedly chat with his best friend???they pressure the english coach so much till they fail to perform..ok lets forget football…
when it comes to proton many comments is baseless and not constructive and send negative message to potential proton buyer and why do you have to think so negatively even before anything happen??why do you have to compare bout BMW-Rover deal???so many others successful deal to talk about!!VW-skoda(skoda were producing even worst cars than proton) VW-audi,Renault-nissan,daihatsu-perodua and many more….its like you want something negative to happen to proton instead of a positive outcome!!that very sad actually!!
so can i know what you really want proton to do??can i know your suggestion and ideas to help proton and what are you expecting from proton???
and about TM…he is a man with a vision…people with ambitions and dreams are the shaping our world to be a better place..if he was not ambitous…proton wouldnt have their very own R&D department,tanjung malim,proton waja,lotus,proton GEN2,savvy and NEO…we need more people like him…and people like TUN dr M..they atleast give us something to talk about now…atleast we have our own car manufacturer…if we dont have proton…this website wont be as fun and exciting as it is now…we will be talking bout boring stuff and commenting on foreign stuff which wont make and difference to us…
when it comes to your country product..please be positive and hope for the best…then you might get what you want…before even anything you are already so negative bout it…how the country develop when they have people like you??be positive and hope for the best k!!!
0 0hurmmm 4 me…..my reason for being kecewa dengan protonG is due to i drive them everyday. kecewa with its quality, not worth the monthly instalment. as a consumer, i expect something worth similar for what i pay monthly. i don’t expect my protonG to have S-Klasse interior quality. heck, i can’t affort an S-Klasse. after hearing how cheap all those other cars in other countries…..lagi ler i kecewa….huhuhuh macam putus cinta, broken hearted and stabbed some more…..as a consumer, i don’t consider any patriotic reason to buy a product. any product worth the money i paid for is good enough……protonG, without Bolehland citizen like me, u dah lama gulung tikar….lagi bank interest sampai 4%. mahal wooo. sapa lagi yang paling banyak beli protonG cars? Brits? Aussie? I don’t think so. just my personal 2 cents opinion.
0 0this is the second assessment followed by the first one where proton gave test cars for years and “forgot” to take it back right.
0 0just like our sissy footballers, protonG always let us (read:Bolehland citizen protonG car owners) down everytime we support them. hurmmm already too tired to support them. just don’t have the energy anymore. our expectation is not that sky high. we don’t expect protonG to enter US market, we don’t expect our footballers to win/enter the world cup. we just want them not to be Jaguh Kampung anymore. thats all we asked. Bolehland, happy 50th birthday….Negarakuku…….
0 0People also bash toyota, nissan, honda, Kia, hyundai cars in the 80′.. They say Japanese’s n korean car are junk.. but seem they improve more then what we know.. I don’t think they also same fate with rover.. Only Nissan being bought by Renault and kia bought by hyundai, and hyundai change ownership… Anywayz, VW seems to be success to help those failing car company to stand up.. Like skoda n Seat..
Anywayz about the EPF thingy..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_(company)
” Proton total losses in 2007’s financial year climbed to $169 million. The Employees Provident Fund (EPF) acquired an additional 830,000 shares in a transaction that spanned between January 5 and January 12, 2007.” Feeling fishy? Yes, at that time of the transaction.. VW is already talking wif Proton.. I personal think that EPF will sell the share to VW if the price is right.. Secondly also pumping money to help proton to launch new model..
0 0Prem3377, read below link to know more about Rover before you comment on it: –
http://www.lrfaq.org/FAQ.3.LRevents.html
http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?timelinef.htm
http://www.winwaed.com/landy/history/timeline.shtml
Read the Rover’s history and timeline, then you know how ignorant and narrow your knowledge in your comments about Rover and British people! Talk like “god-word-come-down-from-haven” to make final judgement …………..
0 0How can buying Proton shares inject more money into the company? It will benefit those who sold their shares, not Proton. Proton’s got the fund after the initial offering, beyond that it’s transactions between the shareholders themselves.
Regarding the negotiations, it’s between Khazanah and VW (or GM or whoever it is). Proton only highlighted what would be ideal to Khazanah — to sell or not it’s entirely up to them (and Pak Lah of course).
0 0Premm3377,
“…you know why BMW sold Rover??the first reason is….the british people…”
————
Log on below: –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_(car)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/1/newsid_2523000/2523129.stm
Quote,
“BMW sold Rover to the Phoenix Consortium headed by former Rover executive John Towers for GBP 10 in May 2000 after millions of pounds of investment from BMW failed to turn the company into profit.”
Prem3377, anything to do with …. the british people …. as claimed by you????? But it is purely make a right commercial decision by BMW eventhough this event create a storm in British parliament!
Be more reasonable and do more research before you make such “below-the-belt” comments.
0 01 proton need to produce very cantik flock of cars.every model is crucial.
2 look to the future,wht the market will be.(diesel,hybrid,flying cars)
3 foreign partners (msian are bz with rempits,and bashers)
0 0bigfish,
no need research..simple as this…rover is a british company..they sell car across europe and US but very low volume..so they are similar to proton..so they were not making any profit and slow to produce new models(again similar to proton) then as usual the british media was bashing the car company and saying all sort of nonsense and suggested them to find a patner…so the british parliment was considering bout it and BMW step up bravely to buy Rover.As soon as Rover became part of BMW THE BRITISH PEOPLE were expect BMW to rebadge their car and sell it as rover for lower price (like how many malaysian were expecting VW to rebadge their pride,the golf and golf gti and sell it at lower price here) but when it didnt happen,THE BRITISH PEOPLE were so angry because rover were still producing cars with old fashion design and engines plus low quality(of course because BMW was the benchmark back then)and they prefer other makes such VW,pegeot,honda,toyota and etc…when this happen..BMW feel its not going to make any profit because the media and people were really too unforgiving over rover cars and they sold the cars company but they kept MINI and LAND ROVER and totaly change image of it..how u many ask…simply by adding BMW engine in them and recreating an icon with BMW technology(widely advertised like that!!so u should know why) and all they british people bought them…BMW had to sell land rover because they were interested to make their own 4X4 and that also was gone!!but the mini sells like hot cake in the UK cause it not originally british…otherwise the media and people will find fault to the mircoscopic level…that the story actually…
you should find out why rover was not making any profit…..then you will get the ans you told me…bmw sold rover because it was not making profit…
the reason will be very similar to proton!!
i think proton has sold around 2 million so far(i am not sure just my estimation) but almost 15 million people knows that proton cars are bad…how???the people who spread rumours blindly,make up new stories,and so on….and this can cause people to stop buying proton or even considering a proton..so it will lead to drop of sales…and drop in profit…then everyone will suggest a foreign patner(hoping to get their latest technology and cars) but IF the foreign patner has their own ideas and produce a budget car for this region…then the bashing continues…..why?not because of bad cars…but because high expectations are not met…haha..i m looking into the future but based on some people who expect VW to rebadge golf and sell it for rm 60 k and rebadge passat and sell it for rm 100 k…
0 0and bigfish,
the link you gave is before BMW buying rover..not why BMW sold rover!!
0 0I find it tragic that there are people who choose to be blind to Proton’s shortcomings just because it is a M’sian company. Equally tragic are people who bash Proton just because it is a M’sian company. A good car is a good car regardless of the logo you put on it and the same is true for shitty cars.
The people who argue that buying Proton contributes to the country’s well being are either a) sleeping thru economics classes, b) should take a course in comparative advantage or c) a Proton troll. An open and fair market will ensure efficient allocation of limited resources and consumers will get the best deal for their money. This might mean buying foreign cars but the money poured into Proton could then be used to invest in other areas where M’sia has a comparative advantage like agriculture or natural resources making everyone more well off. The day I buy a Proton is the day they build an affordable rear wheel drive vehicle suitable for drifting :)
0 0the fact of the matter is that P1 makes crappy products that no one WANTS (but needs), at prices that are ARTIFICIALLY cheap (coz of the uneven playing field) and its been going on for enough time for the company to be able to produce cars that suppose to belong in this neck of the century ( but they cant). why? why do we have to support P1just because its our national car? that is just so shallow. honestly, i ‘d like to buy for reasons other than that. why is it that after 2 decades theyre still over protected? I tell ya, the day the G liberalise the market, hell freezes over.
0 0drifting4eva is speaking for a minority standpoint of ppl who actually do drifting. Most people just need a car to get from point a to point b in reasonable comfort and safety.
I, Unicorns, and Prem do acknowledge proton’s shortcomings. We however disgress at the perception influenced by coffeeshop style arguments, hearsay, and downright misconceptions regarding Proton.
Personally, i feel that unfair comparisons and unrealistic price expectations are the cause of much of the misconceptions people have towards proton.
Bottom line: Proton makes cheap cars. Cheap in an even playing field. Cheap even without NAP. ~1200kg sedan for RM50k OTR (RM36k non-OTR). A Jap import of similar size will be about RM75k OTR (without NAP, without import tariffs). It may not have the best quality, or the latest tech, but it is about RM25k cheaper. NAP has made it RM70k cheaper. Personally, i dont quite agree with NAP either. But some people seem to think that a Civic costs RM55k without NAP. In reality, it would be closer to RM80k without NAP. That’s the OTR price of the Civic in MOST countries with a FAIR TAX scenario. Do remember internet prices are ALMOST ALWAYS NON-OTR. A gen2 is only RM36k but ends up being RM50k OTR. As a rule of thumb, adding about 20-30% over the internet price and you get your OTR price. Some websites also have OTR prices…but do not include insurance costs (as it is not mandatory in some countries).
Now when we try to put things into perspective, we get accused all sorts of things. Please ppl, personal attacks shows immaturity. I get the feeling that a number of people posting are in their late teens (the time most ppl are very influenced by ‘coffeeshop talk’). In the past few proton related threads, I was very surprised one harsh critic of proton actually suggested me to look at “UNcyclopedia.org” (A parody site) for info about Proton. There are also some critics who have never even heard of The Edge, a premier business news daily in Malaysia.
Our arguments may not be perfect, if you detect flaws, do correct us. However, please avoid labeling people. Calling ppl names and passing judgment is pointless and unnecessary.
shooter said: “the fact of the matter is that P1 makes crappy products that no one WANTS (but needs), at prices that are ARTIFICIALLY cheap ”
==As explained above, their prices are not artificially cheap. They ARE cheap. The Iswara (soon discontinued) is only RM32k OTR. It’s not artificially cheap. It IS cheap. You wont find similar prices for a similar car anywhere else. The cheapest car in australia now is about RM45k OTR (excl insurance). Ok, it’s a bit higher tech, slightly smaller, and has two airbags. An Elantra is about RM68k OTR here. So yeah, you could get a budget Korean sedan for less than what you would pay for in Malaysia, but still, at RM68k it’s beyond the reach (even WITHOUT NAP) of Proton’s target market for the ISwara. It was targeted at the a certain demographic of malaysian society. And it did achieve it’s goal. Ultimately, it was a cheap, cheap to repair car. Taxis use it for that reason.
If you dont believe Proton cars are cheap to begin with, refer to overseas OTR prices for similar sized cars.
1. OTR prices can be up to 30% higher than the NON-OTR prices you mostly see on the internet.
2. Compare like with like. Some proton critics compare a VW Polo, a small car the size of a Myvi, with the upcoming gen2 sedan. It’s not like with like…and ultimately an unfair comparison. (The basic Polo, without power windows is about RM60k OTR in Australia btw…)
3. Finally, cars are more affordable in first world countries than in Malaysia. They have 3-4x the Purchasing power parity of Malaysians. The govt is trying to make cars more affordable. Ultimately, most people can now afford cars. Compare that with just 30 years ago. We are a 50 yr old developing country.
4. The govt has allocated RM500m to help proton in RMK9, but by doing so has kept the company going, and ultimately resulted in money recirculating into the local economy, to the tune to tens of billions of ringgit going into malaysian’s pockets…not some japanese or continental car company’s fat bank accounts (IF NAP hadnt been implemented and proton didnt exist). The people who need RM32k cars would not be able to afford it as even a basic Jap budget import like the Vios will be RM55k OTR. Civics/Corollas would be about RM80k OTR. The outflow of RM will reduce petrol subsidies…the international price of petrol is about RM4 per litre…
0 0Dudes and Dudettes
The WTO deadline for a ‘supposedly’ open market has passed. Main reason is protectionism of the agriculture industry between the US and EU. It wasn’t the Aerospace industry. Its not about Mining. Its about vegetables. Yes veges. An open market was a Neocon reason to expand the American economy.
Ask yourselves these; why two industrial gigantic continents are protecting the second oldest profession? Every country is protecting their own home grown industry.
Get out of that tunnel dudes. Get a life. Read.
0 0Don’t you guys even ask what’s the first oldest profession!
0 0Protecting home grown industry is acceptable, but its very shamefull after the protectionism, bad egg becomes rotten egg, taking our support for granted.
Anyway, for many of us, Proton is just a public listed company only, not ‘industry’ and Malaysian automotive industry has wider definition.
0 0There is no doubt that Proton and their cars still have shortcomings and as such, need a constant improvement. So do us. Only constructive feedback will help one to improve. Those who make comments based on a very limited knowledge could end up like another Proton. Yes, the Proton basher could become the bashed one. So, kindly expect a “tutorial†session from others who are not necessarily Proton supporters but a group of people who is concerned over the posting of ill-informed/unfounded comments, and wants to share the actual facts.
Pls do not mislead other people just because somebody you know has a problem with Proton car. It is better if you can speak from your personal experience as an owner AND user of Proton car. The keyword here is “AND†not “ORâ€. If not, pls comment on general issues affecting Proton instead of the quality of their cars per se. It will be easily found out if one is actually a pretender as he/she cannot fool all the people all the time.
0 0yes, some of us do happen to know what the oldest prfession is, bobdbilder. and ezralimm, please dont bring up the saga/iswara comparison; that is one oudated piece of yesteryears’ unwanted tech. and its unsafe on the road. maybe youre right about the pricing, but then why should i have to pay RM100+k for something that costs around RM80+? to protect a local company and not ‘industry’ as bmx put it? so that it could produce cars that are cheap for cheap sake and not because of compny/business eficiency? (and they cant even screw them on properly)… tell me why i shouldnt feel disgrunted? which printed media will actualy air these grouses for and to the public? what other ‘channels’ do we have to vent out our collective pent-up frustration about our ‘pride and joy’? I’m no expert in economics or business like some of you, but i know a bad deal when i see one.
0 0Well, as an owner AND user, the experience is very very bad. Never met another user around me saying its value for money so far, all said its a necessity of life, not much choice, is this a coincident?
If mentioned problems here, it will affect reputation of a product openly and die hard supporters might say its a single isolated case. So no offense.
There should be enough high paid consultants and advisers inside Proton, constructive feedback is here for display only….kopitiam talk is more relevant….
0 0I would like to give my comments:
First of all, i would like to say that we should not reject any opinion from p1 owner, as they have their own experience. It may be right or may be not so right, but at least it will help the management to identify weakness and make improvement
As a p1 user, since when i was in secondary school (1992) till working now, and thru reading from newsletter, newspaper, friends and Paul Tan’s blog, these are my comments:
1. P1 back in 80’s and 90’s did caused some difficulties to most malaysian to own a car other than p1 car with the government’s policy to protect our car industry
2. P1 as a newly formed company (new management team without experience except their partner from Japan) did made profits in aerly 90’s even with most parts imported from Japan. I remembered a friend told me the staffs were getting 7 months bonus, given discount of 5k to own a p1 car. Thats mean their might have earned more from the ‘rakyat’ savings who bought a p1 car.
3. We very happy when more and more local supplier produced parts for our local car, as we might believed that the car price can be cheaper. However, the price getting higher, much more than the inflation rate. And the quality of the parts especially the external parts getting poorer. Thats seem right as p1 does has different class of suppliers. (as published in newspaper). As in 90’s, we still using engines from Japan, currency exchange rate of “yen” compared to ‘ringgit’ always be the main reason for higher cost of p1 car
3. When P2 started, more malaysian buying cheaper car like kancil even they may wish to own a p1 car. But more expensive model from p2 like ‘kembara’ not as popular as kancil. That shows the buying power of most malaysian
4. With the ability to produce own engine, initially used in gen2, the price of p1 car still same,newer technology compared to previous engine cited as a reason for that
5. With latest NAP, most imported cars price became cheaper in market. This also caused p1 cars to be cheaper in our market.
6. P1 car became even cheaper during current merdeka promotion, as saga now cheaper than kancil car. But still people are buying kancil even with lower cc, but NEWER DESIGN.
Conclusion: Most malaysians have contributed to the company by buying p1 cars, and already 20 years. IF now still not able to produce cheaper car for average income ‘rakyat’, people will still continue their negative remarks, or may just give more profit to foreign country by buying cheaper and smaller p2. Positive action by p1 management to give VSS to poorer class of vendor or supplier of p1 parts will help to provide better quality car. There is still hope to improve the company as the company still has assets. However, hope p1 will make improvement within the resources available without causing more pain to malaysian. And never compare your price to p2 as p2 already following p1 footsteps by charging more and more for a small car. Just produce a car with the best technology you have, minimise the cost but not compromising the quality, give the best value of money to all malaysian to own not one but more p1 cars.
0 0“Tell my which car manufacturer never producing bad fugly products? Let me tell you something. Mercedes Benz did too by producing the R Class which didn’t sell well. For you, you will say is a superb car but is a NO NO.”
-Then the smaller scale of Merc R-Class here was called Proton Juara.
Merc R-Class a failure? Consider Daimler’s group losing bazillions from Chrysler and Mitsubishi tie-up, now that’s an affordable failure. Pick the wrong wife(s) and suffer whole life.
Lesson for Proton though: Never marry a girl called Ms.Agusta for one Euro.
“…you know why BMW sold Rover??the first reason is….the british people…no need research..simple as this…rover is a british company..they sell car across europe and US but very low volume.. think proton has sold around 2 million so far(i am not sure just my estimation) but almost 15 million people knows that proton cars are bad…how???the people who spread rumours blindly,make up new stories,and so on….and this can cause people to stop buying proton or even considering a proton..so it will lead to drop of sales…”
-That’s sum up the intelligence from a pea-sized brain.
Probably too fanatical over TM’s remarks after launching Waja (remember?): “Asia’s answer to BMW 3-series”.
Man, this joke never grows old.
“The people who argue that buying Proton contributes to the country’s well being are either a) sleeping thru economics classes, b) should take a course in comparative advantage or c) a Proton troll. An open and fair market will ensure efficient allocation of limited resources and consumers will get the best deal for their money.”
Michael E. Porter’s book on Competitive Advantage says it all. A nation/corporation’s survival depends on how competitive and dynamic it is over a period of time. It’s all about achieving Effectiveness and Efficiency,
Effective: Do the right things.
(ie. Bring the right car for the right segment?)
Efficient: Do the things right.
(ie. Economies of scale for lower cost but ignorant on cronies faulty autoparts supplier?)
Proton shows none of the above.
Proton only survive pathetically on govt tits.
“Every country is protecting their own home grown industry.”
Really? NAP to benefits the automotive industry or actually designated baby-sit Proton only?
Why rakyat must buying car at artificially higher price? How FAIR is that?
“Don’t you guys even ask what’s the first oldest profession!”
From the Ho-trains to Proton, they all bear the same trait: shameless opportunist gold digger.
As usual after the launching of Proton Persona by PM Badawi, a reporter ask him: “Datuk Seri, this car just a butt-job from Gen2, nothing mempersonakan pun, right? PM:”I don’t know. Please ask Proton lah. I don’t know.”
0 0Max88, its strange that you insult others by calling them ‘pea size’ brain.. sadly, i dont really see any intelligent comments from you as well.
0 0Max88, its strange that you insult others by calling them ‘pea size’ brain, especially when you’re making the kinda comments that you are.
0 0Close shop lah simple……….
After so many years of ding dong………..now suffer with the rest of the rakyat……That’s fair…….
0 0bobdbilder,
agreed…almost all country protect their industries…even the japanese still protect their automotive industry after 100 years..
bmx,
proton is not merely a company…it s an industry…if proton were to close down…it will affect more than a million people directly…how can you call it a company then??
company is one member of an industry.
An industry is typically categorized by one product or one type of product. An example is the Automobile Industry.
A company is standalone legal entity manufacturing a product or products. An example is Toyota Motor Corporation. (got it from yahoo’s answers)
BigFish,
i still dont understand why u add the links which shows the timeline of rover..what i was telling is not why BMW sold rover and when!!thats a simple fact..rover didnt make money!!!what i was talking about was why ROVER didnt make money even after BMW took over the management!!!the main reason is the british people,clowns like JC , topGear and the media..
0 0I still own and drive a 12 years old Proton Wira 1.5A which is mostly used for city driving. The power windows started to have problem when the car was 4 years old. My mechanic, however, managed to solve this often quoted problem through a simple approach and until now the power windows are still functioning. His not-so-perfect solution was by converting from one-press-only mode to press-until-you-are-done mode if I want to completely move up or down the windows (a minimum of 4 times a day for at least 5 days a week).
As for major problems, there is only one occasion so far where the gearbox was replaced a month ago with a used transmission set. You could also include the alternator if you want to which I had to replace twice throughout those years. The rest are not major parts and most of these problems are due to tear and wear.
Am I satisfied with the quality of the car? Well……I drove the car up to Genting Highland last year filled with 2 adults and 3 children (a lot of stuff in the boot) without any difficulty. On my way, I saw 2 cars which were definitely newer than mine stranded because of overheating (both drivers probably did not bother to check the radiator water level). One is famous with its kidneys look-alike front grille and the other is an award-winning Japanese model for several years. Does this mean that Proton is better than those marques? Not necessarily, of course. But it met my then requirements and did boost my ego for a while…ïŠ
I feel sorry for a group of Proton owners/users who have a very very bad experience. I guess I am a fortune one or just somebody who set standards not as high as my learned fellow commentators. Value for money? You would be lucky if you could find a model from any makes that fully fit that description as cars are such a complex product.
Somebody just loves to label people with highly improper words because he/she does not like the opposing views. Pls stand on your own and pls do not just cut and paste somebody’s else works and use them to justify your arguments. You should defend your points by elaborating them further instead of being emotional and belittling people.
Pls stop using big words if you cannot even properly define and distinguish the following:
• Comparative advantage and competitive advantage
• Effectiveness and efficiency
Economics? I would love to see how expert this person is……
0 0I still own and drive a 12 years old Proton Wira 1.5A which is mostly used for city driving. The power windows started to have problem when the car was 4 years old. My mechanic, however, managed to solve this often quoted problem through a simple approach and until now the power windows are still functioning. His not-so-perfect solution was by converting from one-press-only mode to press-until-you-are-done mode if I want to completely move up or down the windows (a minimum of 4 times a day for at least 5 days a week).
As for major problems, there is only one occasion so far where the gearbox was replaced a month ago with a used transmission set. You could also include the alternator if you want to which I had to replace twice throughout those years. The rest are not major parts and most of these problems are due to tear and wear.
Am I satisfied with the quality of the car? Well……I drove the car up to Genting Highland last year filled with 2 adults and 3 children (a lot of stuff in the boot) without any difficulty. On my way, I saw 2 cars which were definitely newer than mine stranded because of overheating (both drivers probably did not bother to check the radiator water level). One is famous with its kidneys look-alike front grille and the other is an award-winning Japanese model for several years. Does this mean that Proton is better than those marques? Not necessarily, of course. But it met my then requirements and did boost my ego for a while…ïŠ
I feel sorry for a group of Proton owners/users who have a very very bad experience. I guess I am a fortune one or just somebody who set standards not as high as my learned fellow commentators. Value for money? You would be lucky if you could find a model from any makes that fully fit that description as cars are such a complex product.
Somebody just loves to label people with highly improper words because he/she does not like the opposing views. Pls stand on your own and pls do not just cut and paste somebody’s else works and use them to justify your arguments. You should defend your points by elaborating them further instead of being emotional and belittling people.
Pls stop using big words if you cannot even properly define and distinguish the following:
• Comparative advantage and competitive advantage
• Effectiveness and efficiency
Economics? I would love to see how expert this person is……
0 0I guess I am a fortune one…… Oopss typo, it should be “fortunate”
0 0Max88 ,
i still dont understand what you trying say!!first you said the G taking EPF money and helping proton…the you said proton and VW patnership is going to be like BMW and ROVER…then you made fun out TM’s vision and finally you making fun out comments by others!!so how is this going to help proton or the country??
some say proton have never tried making car to reach out to every class of citizens…but they did…introducing cars like tiara and juara..but it was a flop
as max88 told…cars like juara and tiara was a total flop…but why was it a flop??is it proton’s fault or the people??
proton was finding a cheap car which has good reliability,FC and easy to drive and Citroën AX was the best choice..it was a great car with 10 years of good reputation and was even on the Gunniess book of record for the most fuel efficient car and etc…and few times it was selected as one of the contender for car of the year in France and across Europe!!it was very modern for its time and has indepent long travel suspension and extremely light weight,around 700 kg plus and larger than an average supermini at that time…so where else can you find a better car to be proton’s base model in 1996??but due to the bad reputation even if millions were sold worldwide the car didnt take off in malaysia..the bad reputation is because at that time..the most famous citroen in malaysia the BX has hydraulics problem due to its very advance suspension…and many related this famous citroen hydraulics problem to proton tiara!!i have even heard many talking bout it openly to others but they were totaly wrong..the car dont have such problem cause it was not sharing the same suspension technology and setup!!if malaysian cant accept a car which was sold worldwide in millions for 12 years and kinda advance for its time…what other car can proton bring to satisfy malaysians???
so i am very confused with what malaysian want!!!can we all stop the argument for now(its going nowhere too!!) and write a wish list of what we want from proton and what we expect proton to be in future??(please be realistic,logical and etc)
what i want from proton is,
new models,good quality,and high technology engines and electronics…price??current price is ok with me!!
0 0my god.. how many round is this again? Prem3377. totally agree with you on your comment..
there is always people out there who will find fault in anything and will give no praise to anybody…
like the saying goes.. go straight is wrong… turn left also wrong.. turn right also wrong.. reverse also wrong.. stationary lebih wrong…
haiyah… at the rate we are going… whatever proton do.. even to the point of releasing a very good car.. it will never be accepted into the malaysian consumer mind..
to tell you guys the truth.. i am driving a Gen2.. my second Proton.. and guess what.. no problem… all good… and guess what.. i wouldn’t even mind going for proton again if they release a perdana replacement model..
0 0ezralimm said,
August 10, 2007 @ 8:28 am
==coffee shop talking is ok, bcos the new MD of proton heard the problems from coffee shop/mamak and one of it is the powerwindow of waja. so new facelift waja powerwindow is soft. even spareparts on sale now. the MD mentioned it and was reported on TV news and newspapers last year.
ezralimm and prem3377, ur intention is good to stop bashers don’t simply bash. but if my perception were the same of urs, i would hv out of job long time ago. hahahaha………anyway, i hope proton can survive no matter who manage it and can deliver reliable cars for the consumers.
i hv been enjoying reading this forum, interesting and more than just motoring. hahahaha.
0 0You guys talk till death but your raves and rants will fall on to deaf ears.
Be like me, don;t care shit at all.
0 0prem3377, even if J car companies are protected by their G, they can sell their products by the truck loads in their home turf( and anywhere on the planet for that matter) because its good, not because its made in japan. heck they can go head to head with the europeans and the yanks, and they are. Granted, their industry is way older than ours. but thats no excuse for 2 decades of what most of us disgruntled, hardworking tax payers; precieve as complacency on P1s’ behalf. I’ve owned three P1 cars- an iswara, wira aeroback and a waja, and yes they all have served me faithfully, give or take some very irritating problems that i dont have to mention here. but it pains me to know at the back of my head that P1 could’ve and should’ve done a better job. why cant they stick to the carpenters rule of ‘measure twice and cut once’?
i share Apathys’ sentiment on not expecting P1 cars to have Merc build quality and fit and finish. but i do expect better value and getting more bang for my money. take the gen2 and the neo as an example. i cant fit in the rear seats of the gen2 and front seats of the neo. and the materials used for components that come into contact with the occupants are horrid- elephant hide plastics, rough edges, flimsy door levers- all create a cabin environment that looks and feels CHEAP. funny, but my kid brothers’ myvi cabin is more appealing, even if it is made of the same stuff, it doesnt feel like it. why is that?
personally i just want a sensible set of wheels for my daily routine. unfortunately what is termed as sensible is, to most of you P1 sympathisers, is just to high a standard, so to speak. I’m getting this notion that these sympatisers want me to equate sensibilty with mediocrity ( because thats what P1 cars are- mediocre).
i couldnt care less about P1 cars having Lotus tuned suspension, ride and handling. I’d gladly trade that for better cabin ergonomics, better materials, built quality so on and so forth.all of which could be sorted out in the design phase.it doesnt cost any more to design it right, than the current one. its just that the way things are being run at P1 reflects on the G- ‘dah terhantuk baru nak sedar’.
and lets not forget about the politics of P1. how many vendors could lose their contracts for supplying sub standard components if VW do get management control? (if the deal goes through lah).being given the opportunity not because of competency and ability but ‘connections’.
and the list goes on and on and on …… so tell me, why shouldnt i/ we feel disgruntled?
0 0Everyone needs to take a chill pill. Like chibang said, all your rants will fall on deaf ears. The gov’t can enact high tariffs on foreign cars making proton cars cheap by comparison but it cannot make me buy them. I don’t know about you folks but I have to work hard for my money so will demand the most bang for my buck.
Peace out
0 0In our country where public transport is not reliable, average city folks spend about 5-9 years of their savings to buy a car….it’s too huge a sum and a part of our blood money that we have sacrificed to protect a car company that doesn’t appreciate it….lost from the rakyat’s pocket plus lost of oppurtunity to become automotive hub in this region is tremendous.. could be in billions of ringgit….Let us all look at a brighter side, besides loosing your thick face, if P1 go bust there could be more benefits in the long run….
0 0shooter ,
i do agree with you…i never say u shouldnt feel disgruntled..since you own a proton its fair what you said…and you didnt complain blindly like the rest…what you say it absolutely correct..they do have design flaws…and everyone knows that and you pointed out the mistake unlike some who dont know where and what but still complain…i have been driving three proton cars..and a perodua…so i know what kinda problem they usual have..
the interior of a proton car since the waja has many flaws and most of us proton owners and users know it kinda well…no one here mentioned that people in proton is fine and did a great job..they did make some mistake..but again waja was their very first model…and since then things has been improving..complains are getting lesser..improvement and facelifts has made proton a better car…savvy got its facelift just after 2 years and many complain bout its interior colour and ugly waja face butt has been removed…this shows proton has responded to the people and they are making effort to produce better products!!but their effort is not appreciated by many and accusing them in all sort of things…some are baseless…what we been seeing now is proton is changing and responding to the people…how many of you have driven toyota and honda or own any honda and toyota car in late 70’s and early 80’s??they do have quality problem..they were famed for their reliability but not quality and only untill mid 90’s they really improved alot…so how many decade have they taken to improve to be what they are now??after eight generations, honda civic became a benchmark for its class…how can we expect a proton to be as good as honda in their very first design?? but proton never just sit there and wait for thing to happen…they created gen2…design wise its kinda different from the rest..so it can be a selling point and its generally easy to the eyes…waja’s worst design flaw like the aircond vents and many parts/component dashboard design,door handle and etc were totaly changed..the dashboard has simpler and less component design,vents design is more to general design..door handles feel more easy and safe to hold..but some very important component missing..the glove comparement…but the reason given was simplicity and lotus design cue..anyway everyone know its a great mistake..but a glovebox less design doesnt make a car a bad car or a crappy car..some famous magazine writers and people even complained about the wierd handbrake lever…its just a design guys…it doesnt affect your performance at all!!then next was the savvy..design wise…its fresh,modern and very different from the rest..the interior was a better design compared to waja and gen2 and quality was still a issue due to improper shutline and etc…but proton was determined to change that..TUV were brought in to help them…and quality of fitting did improve and famous power window problems and etc were reduced to minimal level and on par with industries best..just 2 percent defect rate and etc…but it didnt sell well due to unfair comparison with myvi and the renault engine..even if its a very good engine and was best in class engine with over 1.2 million produced worldwide..then came the satria neo..which has the best quality of them all..best interior design..simple yet fuctional and almost problem free…and many couldnt find a any reason to complain(but you said the seats couldnt fit you-its a standard sport seat design,so i think you are kinda large person)…and exterior design the best yet from proton designers…quality also improved significantly!!so the point is..there is improvement over the years…but it has been to slow some may argue..yes i do agree but resources are limited and poor sales due to poor reputation hasnt help the condition in proton..but yet they still trying their best to change things around…and credit should be given to them instead of bashing them blindly for mistake which was done back in 1997 when they started designing the waja…young people to tend to make mistakes..and proton did learn from their past mistakes…and cars are not design and built in a week but years…so in 20 years only 4 generation of cars can be built..but proton started only in 1997…so 10 years on and continuous improvement has been going on in their model so we should atleast give them a chance to show what they can do with this up coming model and also finding a foreign patner to learn more things in a faster pace and produce better cars for us malaysian..if proton were to be money minded and intend to make fast cash..they can be a mere assembler like perodua or naza but its not their intention..they wanna be a true manufacturer..and we should some how be proud of it..and its better to let the money flow within the country rather than helping some foreign company and country…
0 0First and foremost… Proton is our nation asset, like it or not because it was launched using the peoples money. Selling it to a foreigner is like selling part of the nation. I don’t know about you guys but I’ll never agree to selling my country. And closing it down won’t help matter also. If the esteem contributors can suggest jobs for the thousand or ten of thousand who will lose their livehood because some want to see Proton close shop, then lets hear it. Not to mention the financial implications to the nation. The government won’t allow another Perwaja episode to happen. Or haven’t you guys heard of Perwaja before?
And as for protecting the automotive industry, yes, Japan is still doing it. Not to mention the Korean. So why can’t Malaysia do it? One thing about this two nations are the folks support the industry, buying it because it is the nation pride. They improved not because of internal pressure but more from the foreign market. As for those who say they don’t give a crap about this, then you should find another country to call home. For good or bad, Proton is our baby, the world will always says it is the product of Malaysia.
Poor quality is the main problem with Proton, every owner have their story to tell. But kudos to them because they are trying to improve. And feedback from owner will help them further.
And those who says it is not worth the money they pay, maybe you should buy a Honda or a Toyota then? For the average people, like me who live in the kampung, a Proton is worth the money. Maybe you guys earned much more that why you say this but the kampung people earn less. We just want a car that has a good FC, comfortable and sturdy to handle the kampung roads. And the most important thing, it is Malaysian, call it patriotic or foolish but thats what the average people thinks. Maybe you guys just couldn’t understand what patriotic is?
0 0kingbrutal, your writing reflect Baroness Thatcherite’s approach to nationalization of economy activities versus free market or more interesting is Keynesian approach to solving economies woes during downturn.
But Margaret Thatcher who was British PM from 1975 to 1990 nationlization approach “failed misely”, and her successor, John Major “abandon” her idealism to embrace more free market approach. To related products or services produce by companies to patriotism or pride of nation is the folk talk of yester-decade. To understand what elelements constitute a nationhood, please log on below which might give you a basic understanding of what constitute nationahood concept: –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangsa_Malaysia
So, your statement “As for those who say they don’t give a crap about this, then you should find another country to call home.” implied to those who bash/dislike national products (even with valid reason or by choice), in this case Proton car is “equivalent” to dislike nation and “drum up Jerai MP patriotic rhetoric” of “if you don’t like, leave this country”!
So by same argument, those filthy rich, Datok, Biz man, VVIP that like so much to drive Mercs (or by their driver), BMW or any imported luxury cars means they like so much the origin country of these products????, e.g. German, USA, UK and don’t they drive Proton means they dislike …… ask them to find another country as well????????
0 0Kingbrutal, “Selling it to a foreigner is like selling part of the nation.”
This is very “dubious” statement, so Rover sold to Chinese car maker, Manchester City now sold to Thai’s Thaksin, previously Chelsea sold to Russian Abrahimovic, and MU sold to US’ Malcom Glazer constitute “selling part of UK”???????
0 0Prem3377, your previous argument that Rover “failured” is mainly due to “British people”…… factor is very dubious. There are many perspective on the scenario of Rover demis, but in the case of BMW take over of Rover, many credible commentors in British auto industry viewed BMW take over of Rover is just the start to the end of Rover.
Before BMW take over, the “white knight” is Honda (at that moment Honda owned 20% of Rover, and some models rebadged from Civic in earlier 1990s). But due to “Euro Centric” or “Pride/face” that let Europe base BMW take over rather then feasible commercial decision to let Honda control Rover is part of “face saving” exercise. BMW is known as luxury car maker and Honda just like Rover is mass producer that can synergize and re-engineer Rover. However, BMW sold it later due to huge losses and Rover today become history, that what I can summarize up!!!!! British people generally is 1st class mentality, conservative, civilize, good mannerism, proud of their nation historical achievement (especially British Empire), and their culture that constitute Britishness, i.e. highstreet, drinking tea, (of course Rover not one of them).
0 0Haha..Guys keep on coming.Healthy rebuttal and comment is really good for improvement.Certainly there will be two camps; one is protecting and another one is protesting.This is what we want..and the fact is everything in this world shall be like that..a ‘+’ & ‘-‘ force, ying & yang…and so on.By then, the check and balance factor would exist.
Hence don’t worry or belittled when someone urging not to express your wits since it seems that “your raves and rants will fall on to deaf ears”.No offense at all but i believe there are tens of thousand of visitors in this Paultan blog, most are the people who are passionate about automotive and quite a lot are the people who involve directly in the industry itself.
So don’t worry…just keep on raves and rants because they are several significant figures out there will listen to you.Leastwise, they will get the real picture of people’s thought against their products or services.(Of course if they are smart and kind enough to listen haha).Besides, the banner placed at the very top of this blog itself explains everything and that’s what the blog’s for.No joy will be when there is no more sayings from you guys….
A bible of Malaysia automotive industry, go to Paultan.org
A bible of Malaysia political scenery, go to Malaysia-Today.net
Hehe …Cheers all.
0 0maybe youre right about the pricing, but then why should i have to pay RM100+k for something that costs around RM80+?
______________________________________________________
==For the record, i did say that I disagree with the NAP. Just trying to strike some sense into people who think “why should i have to pay RM120k for a car that should cost around RM40k (due to supposed 200% tax)”
0 0BigFish said,
August 11, 2007 @ 9:31 am
kingbrutal, your writing reflect Baroness Thatcherite’s approach to nationalization of economy activities versus free market or more interesting is Keynesian approach to solving economies woes during downturn.
___________________________________________________________
==Bigfish, you lots of theories and concepts – yet your grammar is appalling. Did you just google concepts to back up your statements (by trying to sound smart) or are you studying that in college? or are you just really well read? The latter is a bit hard to believe due to the way you construct sentences…but ya never know.
BigFish said, in response to kingbrutal:
So, your statement “As for those who say they don’t give a crap about this, then you should find another country to call home.†implied to those who bash/dislike national products (even with valid reason or by choice),
_______________________________________________
==Owh, so finally you realize… statements such as the one quoted above, by kingbrutal, is just as bad as statements by Max88 and LittleFire85 who are strong proton critics.
0 0oops.. copy paste error. above sentence should read:
“==Bigfish, you HAVE lots of theories and concepts…”
0 0ezralimm, u r the one who have the right teory and concepts? Why not u show to us? Anywayz melborne is a nice place to study hoo? i tot u r still in Australia stuying, training… If not basher, honda, toyota, hyundai, kia can improve so much and winning US market? U ask ur self, if no people critic u; u will just sit they crouch potato doing ur old stuff.. We need improvement, especially G is helping it! Others car company do it by their own financial status or by loan.. We have the G protect, so we should be faster to get to the point! I don’t see selling the company will worsen the country, We still TAX them! If the Company every year Rugi, U rugi, G pun Rugi no TAX in! We people suffer! U rich guy nvm, U still have a lot of options! Especially BXXXPXXXX Protected by G also! Usually, most of country protect the minority race people in their country like orang asli, but some races are the majority.. Where the money come from to protect them? Other races? Kalau semua “orang lain” tak suka Malaysia go out, i think u all also don’t have that special tag on u anymore.. Coz u will be the one who should pay the G more tax..
Anywaz since u say that EPF thingy is just a little money for them.. Then i ask u one things.. If every month i take ur 5% of the salary and makan myself secretly how? 5% only maa, so little nvm hoo… 5% one month, one year 60%, 50 years? 3000%? For my personal used! Hahaha… i can buy bangalow, shares, cars..(When u want money, i just sell the Bangalow; sure earn coz poperty will up, pay u back i still earn a bit!) When u Realize after that time, dont u felt kena tipu? I think u fast fast come and kill me. EPF is meant for helping us to save our money for future needs.. If G taking it to invest everywhere, what happens if 97′ economic fall downs? Where will our EPF go?
bobdbilder said,
August 10, 2007 @ 9:27 am
Don’t you guys even ask what’s the first oldest profession!
————————————————-
I think is prostitution… What “she” connected with WTO or Proton? High rank officer get a bit from under table? Wow…
Anywayz if Proton is less problematic, better quality stuff. No people will complain! What the HECK PEOPLE WILL COMPLAIN IF STUFF NOT BROKEN! U tot we have so much time to go to complain for nothing?!? Is our money in it! Especially we let them take care our car maintenance! Even the minister inside the Parlimen also know!
“Mengenai kerugian itu, antara lain ia disebabkan jumlah jualan kereta yang kurang kualiti dan juga faktor kebencian pembeli-pembeli kereta kepada Proton yang sering ditunjukkan di dalam siri Top Gear.”
The above statement was spoken by one of the Malaysian minister, after the Kelisa demolishing by Top Gear is brought forward by one of the minister.. I forget what name is him..
0 0Anywayz i hoping that the new Gen.2 sedan wont so much problematic, if not sure after few months got forum bashing it again… I am gonna watch and see, coz my neighbor already book 1 H-line Persona yesterday, selling off his problematic 00′ 1.3L Saga for only RM10k..
0 0torishimeyakuin said,
August 11, 2007 @ 9:49 am
agreed with what u hv said. haha, i m enjoying this blog. debating nonstop of proton. hahaha.
0 0LittleFire85, in response to me:
“Anywaz since u say that EPF thingy is just a little money for them..”
__________________________________________________
woa… plz DONT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. When did I ever say that? I mentioned that the EPF fund has been used by the govt in years past, with much furore and debate, but not for proton. It’s not exactly related to the topic. The RM500m came from the RMK9 budget – NOT EPF.
Littlefire85 said,
“If G taking it to invest everywhere, what happens if 97′ economic fall downs?”
_______________________________________
The sentence is incoherent, but im assuming you are referring to a recurrence of the 97′ economic crisis. According to the CIA world factbook, Malaysia is quite unlikely to have anything like that anytime soon. Healthy foreign reserves and sound monetary policy, along with a growing industrial base should prevent that from happening. For all the things that I must say i somewhat disgress with TDM, he did the right thing to handle the economic crisis. Malaysia no longer relies on it’s agriculture and petrol/gas wealth too much.
LittleFire85:
“If not basher, honda, toyota, hyundai, kia can improve so much and winning US market? U ask ur self, if no people critic u; u will just sit they crouch potato doing ur old stuff.”
____________________________
== Simple really. Korea banned jap imports for 40 years. totally. Then it allowed the US to have a MILITARY BASE in their country. A necessary violation of a country’s sovereignty due to north korea’s threat. In return, there are no tariffs for korean cars into the United States. Korea also purchases lots of military hardware from the US. This balances the inflow/outflow of currency in US-korean relations. Honda/Toyota are simply not valid comparisons… They have been making cars and vehicles for much longer than any chinese or even korean brand. They also have better work ethic and business culture derived from years of -the lack of- sudden influxes of wealth (eg. gas/petrol/tin). Yeah, sudden influxes of wealth corrupts…
I dont understand who you are referring to by “U”, “Ur”, “you”… first in your sentence you appear to be referring to me as you are replying to my message… the it seems to refer to the govt later in the sentence… w00t.
For the record:
1) I HAVE mentioned that I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE NAP concept. Although I acknowledge that it may be necessary for proton’s survival.
2) Never mentioned that EPF was even related to this issue.
3) I have never called anyone rich/poor/basher/protonian. Some people enjoying passing judgment on other people… oh well… whatever makes them happy.
4) I ENCOURAGE the **fair** criticism of proton and the NAP.
5) I have acknowledged that Proton’s quality has not reached international levels – although the recent releases seem to be improving.
According to LittleFire85, Some minister said,
“Mengenai kerugian itu, antara lain ia disebabkan jumlah jualan kereta yang kurang kualiti dan juga faktor kebencian pembeli-pembeli kereta kepada Proton yang sering ditunjukkan di dalam siri Top Gear.â€
______________________________________
I agree. Proton has a bad image problem. It is not helped by people thinking it’s cars are expensive due to the NAP…when in reality they are not…even without the NAP. Budget cars with budget quality.
If your 1 month old proton had a rattling dash, will you go around forums complaining about it? If your japanese car had a rattling dash, will you do the same?
I feel sorry for some people who were unlucky with their proton cars (very problematic), perhaps my family has simply been lucky with our proton – still reliable after 220,000km. We had not been so lucky with our previous continental (real headache to maintain)…
…my 1 month old jap budget car already has a rattling dash. :-(
Am I a proton supporter? Or critic? I prefer to think neither… I just like to put some perspective to the issues raised here – to prevent unfair criticism of our national carmaker – and the unfair supportive statements of our national carmaker such as: “As for those who say they don’t give a crap about this, then you should find another country to call home”. I STRONGLY OPPOSE SUCH STATEMENTS, be it for or against proton.
Come on people… there is a higher standard of truth and reasoning than what you find in “coffeeshop feel-good” talk.
0 0how come protonG spend money in something useless like that i.care program arr? i dont care about some layanan anak raja or make me a coffee when i servis my protonG car. i only care my protonG car gets quality spareparts, can withstand our road conditions summore, not some crappy fake stuff made by crappy protonG vendors. bad move from top ppl.
0 0my suggestion to protonG—-do a correct market research ler. ni tak, banyak syok sendri. for what reason u produce Savvy n Neo? Just coz many people buy Kancil/Kelisa, that doesn’t mean we all want supermini ler. Aiyooo dengan produaG pun mau compete ker. we want bigger car coz we have a dozen kids, our bini like to go shopping summore, we angkut everything when we balik kampung…Hurmmm u gave savvy that masculine looks, yet more than half of ur buyer is girls….apa nie? wrong product for wrong target. as for neo, why on earth u think our men is soo pendek n ketot arr? again, i assume ur target is male, still single mingle. u gave neo a masculine looks (i love the design, kudos) and yet we cannot sit properly inside. sucks. somemore, why u put CAPTOR? unneccessary ler. neo is not some luxury model. again, bad call from management.
0 0my suggestion to protonG—-force all protonG staff from top to bottom including ceo n your engineers only to drive protonG cars. that way, you can save money in testing phase. let your own staff be the lab rats. ni tak, guna rakyats as ur lab rats. mentang mentang ler we all macam dipaksa/terpaksa buy a protonG. kesian summore to BigBrother servant. riddiculous loan (4% interest) for 10 years.
0 0how come Wira and Iswara still ada arr? both are tin Milo. even now u offer that aeroback for rm26000? crap. kalu both have same body strength like waja/savvy/neo takpa ler. at least banyak nyawa boley diselamatkan. ni tak….still using tin Milo arr for wira n iswara? Wira…..obselete car from d 90’s. badan tin Milo summore. langgar sikit, remuk macam soda cans. still use the same design from 1994. no cosmetic change arr? does this meant kilang u @ Shah Alam can only make Wira? if true, aiyoooooo kilang design not dynamic. bad call from previous top ppl.
0 0protonG should launch an MPV with good looks back then in 2000. Forget boxy Juwara design. nak tunggu 2009? tooo late ler. by 2009, i bet u only put airbags, abs, ebd for safety. come on ler…tech is moving faster ler. abs, ebd can be obselete by 2009. even today u only put them in hi-line version. i dont expect my protonG to be as safe as Volvro ler. got better cabin protection, better side impact protection, better front and back crumple zone is ok enough for me. strictly NO TIN MILO please.
0 0protonG, any plans to detach R3? make it as seperate company. biar R3 hidup sendri. i don’t think protonG main buyer is boyRacer or rallyDriver ppl. we are family oriented ppl ler. we want bigger n safer cars coz we have a dozen kids, our bini like to go shopping buy this and that summore, we angkut everything when we balik kampung…including durians, our Popo n Lengloy too.
0 0how come protonG spend money in something useless like that i.care program arr?
____________________________________________
== It’s the best way to consolidate the service and support system in Malaysia. That way, vendors that do not perform can be disciplined. Other companies are doing it as well. Honda actually called me to ask if my service by an authorized service center was satisfactory. All warranty claims goes through the same integrated system. It’s a good way of improving customer support and quality of service. It’s not something “useless”. If it were useless i dont think the japanese and continental companies would have similar consolidated support systems for their cars.
“how come Wira and Iswara still ada arr? both are tin Milo. even now u offer that aeroback for rm26000?”
__________________________________
==I agree. They should be discontinued… But then again, current budget, small ~1000kg sedan cars made with current technology will cost RM40k+ OTR even if NAP/Proton didnt exist… So what’s going to happen to people with only RM30k to spend on a car? Perhaps proton is trying to cushion the blow with the Savvy lite… but it’s still well above RM26k. And btw, almost all cars nowadays are “tin milo”. Thin body panels are used to save weight and improve fuel consumption. A hard kick with the tip of a boot can deform not only a Wira’s door panel, but also a swift, or savvy or yaris for that matter.
0 0i drive protonG, so i have rights to bising pasal protonG. bashers who don’t drive protonG can go away. i came from IT background. i never sits in Economics101, Accounting101, Management101… above is just my non academic suggestions. i bet others can give better suggestions. for some mysterious reasons, i still have hope for protonG to move forward, shed off its bad image. after all this, if everything fails, BigBrother…..just sell it all for RM1 and move on forward.
0 0assuming producing proton parts here in Bolehland is expensive, and to get the National Car Status, one must have some significant amount of local content, which leads to higher cost to produce a car…….hurm…protonG or auntie Rafidaz or Uncle PakLeh–please scrap the National Car Status. not sure how much BigBrother charge for imported spare parts.
0 0after scrapping off the National Car status, protonG could setup some small company only producing protonG parts in some post-Socialist country or wherever cheaper than our MYR. better yet, just buy these companies like you did with Lotus. Hohoho MegaSale season this time around. sure dapat great discount. Ermmm better spend after Saham naik semula. Damn….susah ler kalu everytime something happens to US market, semua dapat susah. Hohoho in theory, kita kena jaga hati US kalu tak mau dapat susah.Hohoho
0 0guys, tulis ler any suggestions kalu ada, in order to help protonG. Bagi jer apa apa idea. no matter how stupid it may sound. Hohoho harap protonG ppl read them.
0 0apathy, any Japanese car were called milo tins back in the early 70s when they were first introduced here..small and considered unsafe..but its cheap and good fuel savers..and with built in air cond, my father too bought a small Datsun after selling off his Jaguar..more and more people bought these small ‘milo tins’..why?most could’nt afford european mades(anyone remember a Ford Corsair?)..these small tins are now called “giants’ in the car industry…Iswara yes old model,but at 26k its up to the buyers to decide…..happy driving!!!
0 0Here’s a taste of what’s to come:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad4fagTyaM4
0 0Prem, I noticed you commented something on the WAJA aircond outlet design being poor. Well, Proton has improved it in the new version. Recently while servicing my 2002 Waja at the Proton Edar service centre, I asked if my air cond vents could be changed to the new one and apparently, it is an identical fit, meaning its interchangeable. So now, I have the new air cond outlet on my old Waja.. Cools both my passenger and I. Everyone should get this quick fix done! It only takes a few minutes and its not costly either..
0 0ezralimm said,
August 11, 2007 @ 10:27 am
==Bigfish, you lots of theories and concepts – yet your grammar is appalling.
——————
Hey dude, you lost the argument and I have the facts to back up to reject your hypotheses that: –
1. “All internet links for car is not OTR price”.
2. “Honda Civic can’t sell OTR price of RM 55K in any part of the world”.
Then, you don’t admit your statement is at least half-truth-half-false, if not outright wrong. Yet you give excuse it is due to “technical error”??? What you mean by this? And to cover your “assh***” and “face-saving” excercise, you turn it to grammar issue!!!!!
Just to let you know arrr…….., you and me just like other have a same teacher in internet – Mahaguru Guru “Mad Google Bin Mad Yahoo A/L Mad MSN”. Maybe you fair better than me in English subject.
0 0ezralimm said,
August 11, 2007 @ 6:16 pm
== It’s the best way to consolidate the service and support system in Malaysia. That way, vendors that do not perform can be disciplined.
————
On the ground, at least I personally experience it, it is to a certain extent that some Ah Beng workshop that give better service to Proton car that “discipline” Proton to come out with better service center!
0 0some outside mechanic do batter job..
there are mechanics quit fom, mercedes ,volvo,honda, proton, set up own shop,
and experienced in trouble shooting, very good at diagnostic, tools and test bench, proceedure,
the facility of the dealer service so comprehensive and involve training, and some dealer service have a strip off model, and special tools used by continentals for example while others dont have will easily be marked them as ‘specialist’, –so a good and wise experienced dealers mechanic absorbs these knowledge and look for opportunity outside,
– batter off some of this guys may use some universal test bench, or softwarwe may covers every car,
0 0Apathy said,
August 11, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
i only care my protonG car gets quality spareparts, can withstand our road conditions summore, not some crappy fake stuff made by crappy protonG vendors. bad move from top ppl.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yup Apathy, this is one of the major issues which has been keep haunting Proton for more than 2 decades. Its parasite bloody irresponsible vendors.Do Proton’s managements know about this thing? Yup they know..
But when the politic is uphold rather than business ethic, most of the defects and problems will be just swept in under the carpet.When the engineers or executives attacked the vendors for not doing their job properly by supplying damn lousy parts,all the issues can be settled by only one phone by some big bosses of some bloody vendors to ‘somebody’ top in Proton.Or perhaps golf on weekend somebody ? So the case closed.
When Datuk Syed Zainal, current MD (not CEO, Tengku Mahaleel was the CEO) got into the office in December 2005,the most critical and crucial area which got his attention was PVD (Procurement & Vendor Development).He made some revisions and changes to rejuvenate the department’s function .It has been reported that he had no choice but to ask the rescue from a few of his good subordinates who happened to work with him in Perodua to come over to Proton and most of them were appointed at PVD in order to cure the chronic cancers.
Do you still remember when the Germans came and did audit the Proton’s vendor a few years back then, there were only a few less than 5 out of hundreds of the vendors which comply to the TUV certification.Following this, the Germans stressed out that for them to lead Proton’s recovery, they would not be left with no choice but to chop off all the bloody pathetic vendors.
I know, current MD really has a hell of a tough time to shift the ailing Proton.But to me, don’t give a shite Datuk..just give your hard kick on their arse.It’s time for Proton to change…this time for the real, for the sake of your end customer.
0 0I want to say this again and I don mind repeating it once more or even 1 trillion times.
It’s p1 diehand fans’ wish to see p1 getting rescued by VW, it’s bashers’ wish to see p1 getting replaced by VW.
To me and most of the people out there, we are not very keen to whatever happens to p1, we just want to see the car market operates in such a way that the camry 2.4 is selling for about 99k like it is being sold in a island.
We need good cars at decent prices not artificially inflated to protect some sort of pride which is wasting economic resources.
I myself is a victim of low quality product at exorbitant price. 20 years are enough, if you cannot compete, close down.
Anyone understand “comparative advantage”?
0 0Bigfish said,
>>
Ok, i concede.
Corrections:
1. A GREAT MAJORITY of internet prices are not OTR prices.
2. One cannot buy a Civic, OTR, for RM55k in ALMOST EVERY country in the world. There may be exceptions. I still strongly doubt the OTR price will be under that in the U.A.E. OTR prices are typically 20-30% higher than the internet prices…although Bigfish claims to have sources the OTR price is only a few thousand more than the rediculously cheap price on some arab website…making it slightly under RM55k in the U.A.E.
0 0ezralimm, yah, this two statements if I can’t agree with you 100%, it is at least 98.8%! (I like 98.8 radio mah …).
0 0#
wong said,
August 12, 2007 @ 12:38 am
apathy, any Japanese car were called milo tins back in the early 70s when they were first introduced here..small and considered unsafe..but its cheap and good fuel savers..and with built in air cond, my father too bought a small Datsun after selling off his Jaguar..more and more people bought these small ‘milo tins’..why?most could’nt afford european mades(anyone remember a Ford Corsair?)..these small tins are now called “giants’ in the car industry…Iswara yes old model,but at 26k its up to the buyers to decide…..happy driving!!!
___________________________________________________________________
i apologise for calling the iswara RM26K a crap. if a family only wants to get from point A to B jalan-jalan cari makan, then this car is ok enough. however i do hope that protonG engineers do make a little effort to strenghten more its body as this model is too obselete for this new millenia. if this model were sold during the 80’s takpe ler as during that time, tech was still a baby. same goes to kancil and wira. i was hoping this RM26K isawara gets the same body strength as any post-Waja models. itu jer. remember iklan savvy? raksasa baling pun, ok jer kreta itu. no kemik kemik macam soda cans. sudah bosan tengok kancil, wira, iswara accident pictures ler.
as for the interest around 4% charged by financial institutions,i think EITHER the banks see local cars are highly risked cars, no resale values etc therefore charging buyers at sky high OR they only want to make untung besar as they see these cars sells like hot cakes. assume 30000 rakyats buy local cars + around 4% interest = Pak Cik KAYOOOO. either way, it is the banks will have the last laugh. kalu bank only charge around 2% for these local cars, i tak bising bising sangat…..
0 0another suggestion for protonG—-u could setup some small company only producing protonG parts in some country wherever cheaper than our MYR. therefore, protonG can kawal mutu dia. better yet, just buy these companies like you did with Lotus. Hohoho MegaSale season this time around. sure dapat great discount. Ermmm better spend after Saham naik semula. Damn….susah ler kalu everytime something happens to US stock market, semua dapat susah. Hohoho in theory, kita kena jaga hati US kalu tak mau dapat susah.Hohoho
0 0only if the National Car Status were scrapped, above suggestion can be applied…..Hohoho
0 0agree with Apathy, the banks will have the last laugh..
0 0:-( that’s the reality of capitalism… The institutions with lots of capital will generally pwn individuals.
NeedGoodCar said,
August 12, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
To me and most of the people out there, we are not very keen to whatever happens to p1, we just want to see the car market operates in such a way that the camry 2.4 is selling for about 99k like it is being sold in a island.
_________________________-
== I so agree…
0 0I also agree Camry 2.4 sold at RM 99K and Corrola sold at RM 60K to 70K!
Ahemmmmmm, Waja sold at RM 36 to 38K at Langkawi but it doesn’t matter if it is sold in Peninsular at RM 43 to RM 48K! I don’t demand it is sold around RM 32K as in UAE simply it is unrealistic selling at below cost!
Still 3 days to go for Gen-2 Sedan launch – sure very hot ……… be prepare for the rumble ……. by bashers and supporters alike!
0 0b4 alot of comments,
after breaking the record for myvi posts :)
0 0Apathy said,
August 11, 2007 @ 6:09 pm
protonG, any plans to detach R3? make it as seperate company. biar R3 hidup sendri. i don’t think protonG main buyer is boyRacer or rallyDriver ppl. we are family oriented ppl ler. we want bigger n safer cars coz we have a dozen kids, our bini like to go shopping buy this and that summore, we angkut everything when we balik kampung…including durians, our Popo n Lengloy too.
————————–
Mayb u shud suggest Merc to do the same to its AMG division, cuz Merc owners are typically rich ppl who play golf everyday, not “boyRacer or rallyDriver ppl”.
Come on, proton’s main buyers may not be “boyRacer or rallyDriver ppl”, bt there are those who always turn their wira into wiralution and waja into wajalution. So what Proton did is to cater to these minorities’ need, so what is wrong with that? Do u hv any personal grudge against these “boyRacer or rallyDriver ppl”? Else, I hope u can be open-minded abt this matter.
0 0Put aside our hatred n perjudicism, after two days, we’ll see the seed of hope from P1!!
0 0As’kum / Hello,
I see a lot of good comments up there. Some are a little bit ‘harsh’ too. I believe everybody has the right to express his/her opinion however, that doesn’t mean one will have the privilege to insult, slander and humiliate the other party. What we Malaysian are lack of are ‘respect’, ‘morale-values’ and ‘understanding’. Let us take a few minutes of our time to re-examine ourselves before making a condemnatory comments on others. Enough said.
On the other hand, I’m here to state out my personal thought on our “National Car Makersâ€. I believe 99% ‘forumers’ in here would agree with me about this. Whether it’s the P1 maker or P2 maker, both have their pros and cons. I want to convey my first disappointment; why is it our local cars are so dam* expensive. I heard in Australia or in New Zealand, you can buy a brand new sports car say, a Subaru Impreza for a tag prize of below RM60k. That’s equivalent to a Proton Waja. In Middle East, you can get a brand new Mercedes Benz C Class for the same tag price as well (RM60k). In Malaysia, ‘they’re’ selling it for a tag price of a whopping RM200k! Thanks to our ‘local car producer policy’ our government thinks the only way to make sure Malaysians ‘gonna’ buy one is to charge imported goods with exorbitant ‘APs’, taxes, duties and et-cetera making it virtually impossible for the low-income consumer group and most middle-class consumer group to grab a hold on one of those ‘juicy’ imported cars. Hence, we are in here, as one of Paultan.org’s forumers, complaining about local cars defects, over-pricing and et-cetera (the list goes on) all because we can only (barely) afford to buy our ‘cheap’ national car.
Before you start judging me as another political-driven forumers, I have to say this, I’m a patriotic Malaysian! I do not have any political affiliation with any political parties for as along as I remembered. Don’t ask why, you know why. All you need is your common sense; politicians are not to be trusted in the first place. Regardless which party they’re representing. Enough said. Back to business, I will try my best to relate our country’s ill-fated socio-economic without touching much on politics.
Believe it or not, Malaysia has all the best things that any developed nations has; the best facilities. Just to name a few; we have LRTs, ERL, Monorails, KTM Trains, The Best Airport in the world; KLIA, coming soon bullet trains that will connect KL with Singapore, we have the fourth tallest building in the world; The Petronas Twin Tower, Menara KL, the largest Hydroelectric Dam in South East Asia; Bakun Hydroelectric Dam, South East Asia’s first Cyber City; MSC at Cyberjaya and the list goes on. All of this ‘good things’ we have, all of this ‘kebanggaan rakyat Malaysia’, all come to this one simple unavoidable fact; we are among one of the world’s LOWEST PAID-WORKERS. In other words, we have the lowest salary in the world regardless what technical expertise we have and how many degrees or masters we have. Please do not put all the blame on the government (althought most of us does that), most of our private sectors are paying very low wages as well. Say a decent guy with an Honours Degree that wants to get marry, he will have to at least ‘berpuasa’ (fasting) for a minimum of 5 years before meeting his minimun target savings to at least own an exorbitant-priced local car and an exorbitant-priced flats or apartments. Sadly as it sound, that’s the real truth that we Malaysian are facing now. With this socio-economic condition, I hope Malaysian will realize, we cannot afford to buy other cars other than P1 or P2. Unless the government and the private sectors are willing to compromise; by lowering the taxes to appropriate level and increase the salary to match with the current Cost of Living (COLA). I believe most Malaysian are hardworking bunch, whether you’re in the public sectors or private sectors. The only way for Malaysia’s Local Car Manufacturer ‘gonna’ strive for success and win the hearts of many Malaysian, is from fair game and hard work. Not by charging poor Malaysian with “not worth it†expensive tag-price cars. As for my last words; I’m always amazed with AirAsia’s story of success, as our second National Airliner, starting with only 2 units of second hand Airbus (or is it Boeing’s 737s?), in 5 years, AirAsia managed to be one of the leading LCC provider in Asia. I still remember a lot of Malaysians mocking AirAsia as low-standards airliner. ‘They’ better take back those harsh words, now they’re merging with another LCC from Europe making AirAsia one of the World’s Largest LCC operators! I think our local car manufacturer should learn more from AirAsia plight to success. They did it in less than 5 years… and “ehem†our local manufacturer has been doing it for what… 20 years +++ still quality/price is ‘questionable’. Enough said.
PS: If given the choice, average Malaysians do not want to buy either the P1 or P2 cars. Unless ‘they’ are willing to compromise in terms of quality and pricing.
Yours truly,
SY0H
0 0Well said SY0H… and to others, I apologized for my harsh words on the previous post. My bad. I was infuriated by irresponsible comments to sell of Proton. The way I see it, Proton is still not a lost cause for Malaysian. There are rooms for improvement in management and production, so lets us all hope for the best.
And hopefully the will be less political motives involved. AirAsia was started with 2 B737-300 in 96 and it became a success it is today because it was run as a purely bussiness entity. This political bull**** is present in all GLC such as MAS, Khanazah to name a few. This companies are bleeding the nation finances because of the ‘brightful’ people running it. They all have great potential but alas, thats sinking feeling is always there when we talked about them.
I’m digressing off topic… Anyway, happy motoring and remember to drive safely, you know you can make a difference.
0 0“I heard in Australia or in New Zealand, you can buy a brand new sports car say, a Subaru Impreza for a tag prize of below RM60k. That’s equivalent to a Proton Waja. In Middle East, you can get a brand new Mercedes Benz C Class for the same tag price as well (RM60k). In Malaysia, ‘they’re’ selling it for a tag price of a whopping RM200k!”
____________________________________________
Typical Malaysian perception. That’s not ture. The Subaru Impreza is a normal ~1400kg class family sedan, not a sports car… Depending on trim, it goes for about RM82000-102000 OTR in Australia (Excluding insurance).
The Sports variant of the Impreza, the WRX STI, goes for about RM185000 OTR excluding insurance.
The cheapest Merc C-Class goes for about RM175000 OTR excluding insurance in australia. That’s the basic basic model… the top of the line C-Class goes for about RM500,000. While midrange models are about RM250000 OTR excluding insurance.
Dont take what you hear in coffeeshops as gospel truth… Quite often it’s not.
0 0Should we happy with the recent launched i-care?
Before P1 trying to improve the hospitality of the staffs at the service center, do improve the knowledge and skills of your staff.
I would like to relate my experience when i had my ‘wira’ driver’s door lock faulty few years back. I went to an AUTHORISED P1 service centre, they too almost AN HOUR to get the door opened, and caused many screw driver marks on the plastic part of the door….Then the best thing without inspect the part, i was asked to replace it with a new set cost me more than RM150. I just have no choice but to accept that. Few months later, the front passenger door lock faulty. This time i just went to the NON-authorised proton mechanic. A young gentleman, took only 15 minutes to get the door opened without detroying the door with unwanted scarring, then removed the lock, and very fast able to tell me that the spring was spoilt. He then replaced with another spring, within another 15minutes, all done. It only cost me RM20. Till now i dont have problem with the repaired lock. The moral of the story is dont only train a group of expert only knowing to replace part of the proton cars, but do not know each components of a part, eventually unable to repair first. Now you know why most P1 onwers go to unauthorised service center after the warranty period.. There is always room for improvement!!!
0 0Looks like Australia is also getting ripped off on Benz prices. In the US the C-class usually starts around RM 100-110k.
0 0tokmoh said,
August 12, 2007 @ 11:02 pm …………………..
———————————————-
i don’t have any grudge against them. however, due to asyik rugi every year, why should protonG spend rakyats little money on something to cater some minority sect? even so, any Evo poser and waja drifters will always go to any their feveret woksyop in Sunway etc to modify their protonG. not the R3 woksyop.
my point is when a company makes losses, the fastest way is to axe any division yang tak buat kerja, restructure the company etc.
sorry if my 2 cents non academic comments touch ur ultra sensitive feelings. happy driving.
0 0I agree that Proton’s own mechanics may not necesarily be experts about Proton’s own products.
Most common excuse is, “this is not our problem”, “vendor’s problem”, “renault’s problem”.
Friend, when you source all these parts and put them together as your product, surely you have some control over these parts, and training provided on how to handle them. Or at least refer back to the original source.
From my experience, they are not really bothered. Most of the mechanics have the mindset “What do you expect? It’s a proton”.
This mindset should change.
0 0I cant wait for proton to close shop.Then we can have cheaper car.Keep on hoping Proton sales to continue plummeting…
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AI-generated Summary ✨
Comments reveal a mix of skepticism and hope about Proton's future, with many criticizing its quality, pricing, and management, while others acknowledge improvements and potential collaborations, particularly with VW. There’s concern over government support, vendor issues, and past mistakes, yet some express optimism about new models and strategic partnerships turning things around. Several commenters emphasize Proton as a national asset, urging constructive feedback, and point out that recent efforts like the Gen2 launch and collaborations could signal positive change. Overall, sentiments range from frustration with past shortcomings to cautious optimism, with a desire for Proton to innovate, improve quality, and become competitive in the global automotive industry. The tone reflects a mix of disappointment, patriotism, and hope for better management and products.