Proton’s car registrations with the Road Transport Department went up 21% to 10,018 cars in July compared to 8,328 cars in June – effectively increasing it’s total industry volume in July to 32%, up 5% from June.
If Proton maintains this performance over the 2nd half of 2006, it might be able to wrestle the number 1 position back from Perodua, unless Perodua has some other cards up it’s sleeves.
Overall car industry volume is expected to drop 6% this year to 520,000 vehicles. This increase in Proton sales is likely due to the Proton Satria Neo, of which 2,750 units have been sold so far, and 4,000 orders in hand. This exceeds Proton’s sales expectations.
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if proton introduces a iswara replacement model or waja replacement model with the quality of satria neo(or better)..i'm very sure the sales will go up by at least 40%..this is the right track..way to go proton..kudos!!
the last thing i would like to be involve in, is the politics, but since Tengku Mahalel is no longer the CEO, then I wonder where P1 can start looking for inspiration and motivation in designing new models..however, the Neo is proving to be the life saving model. I would like to see more exciting models. keep it up the good work.
but got no news of any new models besides the perdana replacement model..that also long way from now….that means they dun have anything in the works before the perdana replacement?
I dunno why people want to get that underpowered satria neo 1.6?
I will only buy neo if is RM 25k
I was told by a leading non-local car manufacturer that they also suffer from this slump. Measures are been taken up now to improve sales, he said. Good news for proton.
Good luck to Proton… they need to speed up in producing new quality model. This increment in sales is probably due to the new Satria Neo. I believe the sales can be better if replacement models for those scrap/junk cars such as sagas, iswaras and wiras in near future… Proton need to change to survive else none of us will pity because Proton has been protected for 20+ years.. time to be independent..
Gen2 sedan and Iswara replacement is in the making!
Hoorrraay! ya already saw many neo on the road…realy look nice…bt i oso tink the gen2 1.3 oso selling alot due to its low price…
Only a good small neo and can pick up the sales, a few more new models and it will rock and roll again.
wonder if proton is selected to fit their cars with hydroxene system instead of setting up another new 'national' carmaker….what a waste…
haiya… proton… lose confidence oredi lah… padan muka proton lose to perodua… unless Theo is being hired as the designer of tat dying company, then its a different story…
Keep up the momentum Proton!
Make us Bolehlanders proud…
(I must be on Prozac!)
As far as I was concerned,proton's sales has nothing to do with patriotism..This ailing company only good in our shore is useless unless they at least can get those kind of sales figure at foreign soils….
keep up proton to dick there own hold to Bari there own self!
hey guys!!!
dont U all think that its about time Proton really consider going into SUV and light trucks/Double Cabins? If in S'wak here these two models sure can sell one lah!
Since there are a lot of MPVs around,I think these two segments can be given a deep,deep thought…OOhh…one more thing…(for once..) can please bring the price down to about RM60K – RM80K kaa? Who doesn't want to buy if that is the RM involved?
Way to go Proton hope to see more cars from them
according to da pros , dat proton gonna bankrupt .
da pros ?
wat pros ?
go die lar so call 'professionals'
donno anything bout cars wan.
balik tidur lar.
proton rox !!!
This is so sad :-(( Why must proton sales improve? I was hoping this money sucking, cheating , cut throat company bankrupt!!
I am still optimistic proton will bankrupt :-) Probably the government will bail them out.
i think you need to change your nickname satrialover.
Don't get your hopes up proton lovers. This is just a false dawn, an inconsequential little spike. Most of the Neo sales are actually sales to dealers. Next month proton sales will drop again. Can expect much from a 2 door car.
Way to go proton… Nice to know that theyre going up again..
Cant wait for the iswara replacement model or also known as the savvy sedan. The current iswara and wiras are too berkarat to be produced la.. And really there's going to be a gen2 sedan to replace the wira? That would be cool…
There still lays a very fine silver lining in thefar horizon for proton yet. Hope proton will follow up the neo's momentum and launch a new model or at least a replacement model again soon. Then the silver lining may appear a bit wider.
I sometime still smile thinking of those goondos who came out with no wit nick names for the neo when some spyshot of SRM photos came out. Wonder they feel stupid now !!!
The programme of vendors consolidation ( get rid of those useless vendors ) must be given top priorities. I think there is no better time than now for proton to do this. Then , there may be hope after all for proton survival.
the satria neo has its own group of followers…this helps proton…other models, however, dont…trust me, if proton use the mitsubishi 380 as replacement, nobody will buy…i will never buy proton no matter what!! my sister's 1998 wira aeroback's roof and bonnet/door all developing rust..can u beleive that?
and remeber, most buyers in the kampung area still not aware of proton's problem cars (i didnt knew about perdana'a many gearbox/suspension problems until i checked on the web…i was considering buying second-hand or new…luckily not)…..the people in the kampung most of them cannot afford other cars, thats WHY ONE OF THE REASONS PROTON STILL SURVIVING on proton iswara and wira sales
also the kampung and rural people easily attracted to promotions like the "merdeka free fuel buy proton"
satrialover said,
August 17, 2006 @ 9:50 pm
I am still optimistic proton will bankrupt Probably the government will bail them out.
———————————-
proton is a miracle car company to last this long with close to no profit in export and after a myriad of bad cars…..it better to be at the expense of the people to bail a crap company out.
any news of the investigations yet? as well as the prosecutions for the former proton execs? after all the mumbo jumbo about bringing them to court, nothing else happens after it.
this replacement model naming scheme isgetting on my nerves.
For those of you who are trashing the Neo, I think you have no idea how good the car's chassis is against many other cars in the market.
We drove the cars to Phuket a few weeks' ago and let me tell you that you can really drive it as if it had twice the amount of power. The car will just turn-in.
And not many FWD cars can kill understeer like the Neo. If you know how to drive fast professionally, you will appreciate the Neo's tendency to let the rear step out a little at speed before settling, a trait found in many racing cars.
So don't start to trash the car before someone more experienced than you can demonstrate the car's strengths, you just dont know what you're talking about.
The 1.6-litre engine is not underpowered. The only problem is getting out of second gear corners, the torque curve is retsricting a fast exit, that's all. Otherwise, the Neo is a mighty fun car to drive and can kick ass if you know how
For those cheering proton on in this protected market, it's like cheering an athelete running a race with competitors forced to carry 20 kilo weights on their backs.
And if you don't feel ashamed of yourself, I hope your children will be forced to drive the "coffin on wheels" Saga when they grow up.
An increased of 21% from 8,328 cars in June bringing the total to 10,018 cars in July may seem alot. However, I heard that Proton was targeting a monthly sales of 12,000 cars. Therefore, Proton is still 20% below their target. As for the Satria Neo, after two months more they would have cleared all the backorder. Then, what is going to happen to Proton Sales volume. Anyway, practically the whole automotive industry is suffering as you could see all the promotion going on.
The current generation of drivers are sick and tired of Proton. We feel that we have been deprived of our rights to drive a decent priced quality Japanese/Continental car because of the Govt's protectionism.
For those who were "forced" to drive Proton, incl myself, we have to bear with the quality problems associated with it. That includes taking time off from work to go to workshops and probably spending your weekends at the workshop when you should be hanging out with friends or family. That is exactly what I am doing right now.
Perhaps the next generation will have better luck. By then, will Proton be around ?
i test on the Neo, not suitable for city drive. the response is like delay 2 second. But it suit to highway where you can put Neo in high rev, but then it's noisy to keep run in high rev.
SatriaGuy, agree! And it's bloody easy to do a trail brake on the neo too!!! Done this a few times between on the Grik highway long sweeping corners..beautiful. Only if Campro is mated to the right gear ratios, especially the 2nd and 3rd…
A Jaguh Kampung achievement! Why not report the sales in thier exporting countries? If Malaysian are not going to buy the car, then who else is interested?
Read in the Star and looks like Naza (as a local car manufacturer) are looking at opening a plant in India. Proton can't even sell a car in India. So nothing to feel proud about, Proton.
Could this sales up just a merdeka hike? After August sales down again then everybody will be very depressed again :/
Still on the topic of Proton, I found this comment written by a Proton (R3) employee on another auto forum online. I guess that Proton would increase his pay by writing this comment. I felt pity for Proton to have such employees.
Here's the article….
Given that you hate everything made locally or regionally…
…you must be a very distressed person! So, please allow me to help you
out a bit…
Read the descriptions below, and choose (honestly, without lying to
yourself) which of these persons best describes you.
Once you've decided on A, B, or C read the accompanying solution at the
bottom for your ailment.
a) A sad, lonely hermit who squates in front of your computer screen
naked, scoffing at ppl like me who actually owns and drives a Malaysian-
car. When you were young, you must have had a traumatic-encounter with a
Proton or Perodua that you father or mother owned and accidentally
reversed over your favourite little "mr bean" teddy bear, ripping its
left arm and right sewed-on eye out.
b) Since you recently registered, means that recently you prolly got
dumped bigtime by your girlfriend of 10 years, that you gave your heart,
life and money to, catering to her every whim, buying her lavish,
expensive gifts every month, hanging on her every word; and yet, she
still never laid you, never gave you anything more than a peck on the
cheek and the words "oh you're so sweet!".. and now suddenly, she drops
the bomb: she's loves you, yes, but she just can't help sleeping with a
different guy every week. Even tho you never got any, she's jumped almost
all the studs in KL at least 2 times over, got nailed by 5 Italians after
a particularly hard-drinking night out in hard rock cafe, and recently a
new 'datuk' has started to 'finance' her, and she doesn't need you
anymore.
c) You were born with money coming out of your backside. In std 1, your
weekly allowance was RM 100. By the time you were Form 4, it was hitting
RM 200.. daily. You've been able to have and/or buy anything you've ever
desired and set your eyes on in life: toys, cars, girls, plastic dildos
to stick up rectum… anything, and everything!! Now, you scoff at all
these cheaps cars below they are below your current ride: a 2006 BMW M6
with 20inch shiny alloys, an RM 500k sound system, and more stickers,
strobes, and disco light than Zouk in Singapore. Aaaahh.. but there's
something missing: love. Your an only child. Your Mom is too busy with
her high-soceity galas (and, according to rumours, some new juicy, young
pool-cleaner that keeps her 'entertained'). Your Dad doesn't care for you
as he's too busy working(and, according to rumours, spending much time
with some new juicy, young gardener that keeps him 'entertained'). Your
friends are all fake, and just suck off your cash. Deep down inside, you
still can't admit that you live a sad existence..
SOLUTIONS
If you are..
a) Face the trauma: little teddy bear didn't suffer too badly, at least,
and it was quick. He probably didn't feel too much pain, and he would
have wanted you to move on. In his honour, bury the past and get on with
rest of your life and what the glorious future has to offer!
b) Men are from Mars, women are from Venus. Who knows what her demented
mind really was up to? Go down to your local waterhole, get sloshed with
a couple of hard-vodkas, grab a cab to Jln Alor and pay a cheap whore to
show you the time of your life. Remember: life is too short and too rich
to delve over the loss of a woman, no matter how great a person you think
she was!
c) Leave the country, bring some money (not too much), and start a new
life somewhere far away where nobody knows you, like Siberia or Christmas
Islands. Learn to lead a normal life, and surround yourself with real
friends and real love.
So… take the advice, cool off, and shut the hell up if you have nothing
nice to write about.
/adian
—————
'SatriaGuy said,
For those of you who are trashing the Neo, I think you have no idea how good the car’s chassis is against many other cars in the market.'
Is it againts the many old models of proton is it? Compare to other brands, i think it's impossible, check your auto studies. New car will perform but after 3 years; u know la koyak here, spoil here and there, none durable at all.
Proton sales is expected to rise, due to the crazy DISCOUNTS they offer. They simply got too many unsold cars stacking up and desperate for sales. PROFIT wise? i dont think so, sales up, profit down, lol. BUT it is good that they gain the money back to develop new stuff i hope! rather then feeding 'their' crocodiles and cause bankrup and our tax money will bail them out.
Hi all… anyone has any comment or review on Toyota Ipsum 2.0 (yr 2000 model)?
I think Proton has contribute many to our country's growth. We'll not be in this position if the gov dont decide to protect our car industry…i think the people who hated proton are people that cant afford to buy imported cars, because of the high tax imposed.
c'mon guys, dont become shortminded. stop shooting blank.
hey, come on.. who trash the neon? are you really own one? if dont, dont just simpy assume all p1 models are the same eh. i think is its a good 2-drs, but the 1.6 AT engine maybe sux. this story i got from the real owner of neo, you can read it here:
http://www.motortrader.com.my/asp/forum/topic.asp…
this proton sales go up story actually a sandiwara, they dont tell you full stories..satrialover dont worry protn is goindown.to satria-guy I'm waiting somebody to comment on recent 5 days or more trip to thailand done vy a group of neo's a perdana and a savvy.
This is what PROTON good at, wasting money…and even though it is their money but please dont forget how they earn it..you know by blood sucking Msians.it is not fair to msian. actually Proton @@@$%%^^ people want a full company pay trip to thailand.to stingy to use their own money then make this excuse of this neo car for people less then 4ft tall to go to thailand.
why dont they travel from bukit kayu hitam to danga bay..then to kuantan all the way to rantau panjang…DO YOU THINK SIAMESE WILL HAVE O LOOK ON THIS RETARDED NEO?come on la..I know la you Proton people cheapskeet tactics…y'now former G staff..
Please la Dont buy Proton they dont know how to use thier money other only selfish.sell overpriced car make big big big margin take a free 5 day trip to phuket.
SamGan said,
August 18, 2006 @ 7:53 am
For those cheering proton on in this protected market, it’s like cheering an athelete running a race with competitors forced to carry 20 kilo weights on their backs.
And if you don’t feel ashamed of yourself, I hope your children will be forced to drive the “coffin on wheels†Saga when they grow up.
yes agree with you…excepts the weight is likely 100kilos more :-) :-) :-)
Halo kawan kawan. Any comment / review on Toyota Ipsum 2.0? Where can I find it?
4 solution for proton
i.produce different model use sama plattform (just like toyota-hilux,innova,fortuner),gen2 sedan, neo 5 doors?or sedan…absolutely i'll buy it…(neo make me crazy,but hate 3doors)
ii.excellent quality n latest technology…..(hard to say..)
iii.effieciency of fuel cosumption…(i think neo,waja campro n gen2(auto) really use a lot petrol)
iv.follow the trend of design nowdays(side miror wth signal n folding…vvt,vtc,vvl,vvti)
i got bad/.good news (depends on where you are at the moment)… a reliable source from a car company has told me that car prices will be slowly coming down from 2006 till 2010. This is in line with the AFTA extension which Malaysia sought sometime in 2002 (my dates are hazy). Car sales sluggish? We haven't seen the end of it… but don't take my word for it. After all, this is Malaysia where policies can be reversed in 24 hours! sigh
Dont know what to saylah.. but instead of leaving the country, things could be better in msia.. for instance, time when proton was born.. anyone can buy any car at affordable price, & some of the cars from that time still running on msian road.. even our leader oso agree, that they cannot keep protecting p1 forever.. but i doubt our NAP will drastically change in several years to come, this is bcoz, it has generated huge income to gov, so they say it is a good policy (for themlah), furthermore can keep p1 rival models expensive & people will keep buying p1.. but fortunately, theres still some positive points, that can keep my boiling heart cools down, our roadtax is still cheap, we still have no car scrap policy & we ve p2… we may ve to buy expensive cars, but we still can use it until it rots… so i ve proceed with my vios booking & plan to use it until fossil fuel is finished… later, i will plan to buy cows, & use kereta lembu in the future… when that time come, i wudnt need to move so much, enuf la for me to go to the shops…
sorry, got typo error… shud be like this..
"for instance, time when before proton was born.."
SamGan said,
August 17, 2006 @ 10:51 pm
Don’t get your hopes up proton lovers. This is just a false dawn, an inconsequential little spike. Most of the Neo sales are actually sales to dealers. Next month proton sales will drop again. Can expect much from a 2 door car.
SamGan: You got your own sources ahh??
satrialover,
I just put 2 and 2 together. I reckon at least 1/2 of the 2000 "sales" are taken up by dealers as test cars. With 2engine variants you need at least 2 test cars per oullet and P.Edar + EON have about 450 outlets. Then what about 30 cars for Phuket trip? So a spike of 1000 real sales for 1st month of launch is nothing to shout about. It's less than savvy (reported as 3000). It is a failure.
Basically, 2 door cars are for youngsters who like sporty stying. At the price of Neo how many of them can afford? It's small market. Even mini cars nowadays have 4 doors . The only market for 4 doors now are pocket rockets and Neo is not one.
Recipe to make proton lose money.
When buy a proton: Use it for a minimum of 20 years before you buy a new car.
So the money the earn from you will be spread over 20 years
Also, regarding government tax on foreign car to buy proton? I don't think so.
The Government would be happy if you buy foreign cars. On average the tax they earn in average is probably at least 40-50K clean per car, up to 150-200k tax on luxury cars or even more. Proton profit after markup per car, my guess is 15-30k? Furthermore, when there is free market, the Government said that the tax on proton cars will be same as foreign cars that is in the same percentage so proton has no extra advantage as the goverment need the tax to run the country. So I don't see car price drop very drastic. But I believe it could drop in the future.Also proton, their export cars is cheaper than those sold in Malaysia and better quality. They are not stupid. They call people patriotic, but they treat foreigners better. Patriotic ??? If you ask me, foreign car should be same price with proton without tax.Why? Simple, malaysian labor force is cheaper than elsewhere so why costs is high? The parts are supplied by some Malaysian companies or cronies of proton and they charge high and lack of qualities.
actually there is one way to bring car prices down tough its highly improbable… its all a matter of supply and demand. imgaine if ALL Malaysians stopped booking or buying cars for just 2 weeks. no new car registration, no trade ins, no enquiries, nothing. What do you think would happen?
Do you think car prices are going to come crashing down?
I'm not surprised.
-the situation will gets better by the presene of the Satria Neo.
-So far,2750 Satria Neo has been sold
-And there's 4000 in the waiting list.
and it's beyond Proton's expactation.
Motorhead – better hold back your decision to book Vios because the Vios replacement, Toyota Belta, expected to be priced around RM 80K will launch in the very near future! Vios by toyota world standard, is consider aging model!
Hi Joe. Do you know anywhere I can get a review for Toyota Ipsum 2.0?
motberg said – "i got bad/.good news (depends on where you are at the moment)… a reliable source from a car company has told me that car prices will be slowly coming down from 2006 till 2010".
Indeed it is highly probable as our G not only have to commit to AFTA, the most significant is Jap & Malaysia FTA, which compel the G to reduce the tax on imported car. Of course our G policy always changes all the time, which is one of the main complaint by FDI. Never-the-less, this FTA thingy is not limited to auto sector, if our G maintain the crap NAP tax structure beyond 2010, then there are many repercussion on our export for other goods and services like palm oil, agriculture products, which the opposite signatory country have the right to imposed certain restriction on our products exporting to their country if our G maintain current NAP. That the main reason, that our minister including PM come out with statement that the G can't protect P1 forever. P1 have to learn to be competitive or else taken over by foreigner or closed shop!
jonkk, Toyota Ipsum 2.0, easy only, click Google key in this word everything about anything you key in will be out, click and check. But anyway, give you one example: –
The example is
http://tinyurl.com/qmqgp
Thanks Joe….. Appreciate your assistance.
sipi the penyu said – "I’m not surprised. -the situation will gets better by the presene of the Satria Neo."
With sales of slightly less than 7k unit within 2 month, it is NOT beyond expectation but WITHIN P1 target sales of around 30K unit per year. What is means by waiting list of 4,000. How long, I believe it is not "waiting" in the first place as P1 plant is under utilized, according to their claimed is 40%.
"Waiting" for what, this may another gimmick by P1 to create "urgency to buy"! MD SZ is more realistic in its projection for car sales, unlike TM projected Gen-2 and Savvy sales at around 50 to 60K annually but last year Gen-2 sold around 30 K and Savvy less than 7K for last year six month, if proportionate shall be around 25 to 30 K.
With Neo sales of less than 7K unit for the last 2 month, what is means by "beyond expectation"? If really this is the case, P1 know how to make decent Neo car but don't know how to do biz! How to make money with this sales figure with using what they claim entirely new chassis? How to recoup their investment? If based on 30K unit per year, to achieve economy of scale to sell at least 500k unit, they need approximately 16 year to recoup their investment for new chassis. That means just like Iswara , Wira, Perdana that set precedent for selling more than 10 years, Neo will be available beyond 2020?
motberg said, "actually there is one way to bring car prices down tough its highly improbable… its all a matter of supply and demand."
In our case, NAP tilt the demand-supply curve favourably to P1. The car prices will definitely down and current close market under NAP already unable to sustain P1, and eventually througn FTAs, our G have to commit to open out our market, P1 have to be competitive to survive, which in this case is highly improbable if still do not find strategic partner.
theking said,
"Gen2 sedan and Iswara replacement is in the making!"
Hmm…. i haven't heard any news of a GEN2 sedan in the making. If this is true, then it will be great!! My question is: where do u get your sources from, theking?
theking said, “Gen2 sedan and Iswara replacement is in the making!â€
This hype P1 mentioned it even before Waja arrived, and later Gen-2 which suppose to be at least Iswara or Wira RM. However, due to these 2 model still "saleable" and constitute approx half of P1 sales volume (2005), to discontinue this 2 model, in biz sense means digging P1 own grave – straight close shop as this 2 model is the most profitable as well. At current sale performance, ending Iswara and Wira in the market means like "plug away life support from critically ill patient under ICU"!
SamGan said, "For those cheering proton on in this protected market, it’s like cheering an athelete running a race with competitors forced to carry 20 kilo weights on their backs."
If we refer to NAP tax as an indicator and "extrapolate" the tax into the weight of athlete, then for a car like 1.3 to 1.6 sedan, the like of Mits Evo, Corrola, Civic or Sentra is sold twice the price under free market. Therefore, the foreign athlete competitors should be force to carry at least equivalent to the weight of the athlete. If in car racing, Evo, Sentra, Civic or Corrola have to stack one more car on top of them before allow to race at Bolehland with the like of Waja, Gen-2 or Neo. That why some people like SatriaGuy claimed the Neo as "tell you that you can really drive it as if it had twice the amount of power"! This is typical Protonian falacy claimed of how good the P1 products?
dont be so happy and cheering 4 proton yet la brotha…
today only, at about 930-10pm from midvalley to sunway piramid, i saw 3 protons (2 gen2, one saga) BREAKDOWN ALONG THE FEDERAL HIGHWAY MAN…
about 2 months ago, i saw 3 CONSECUTIVE WAJAS, ALSO BROKEN DOWN ON THE FEDERAL HIGWAY at the same time, and last week saw 2 proton (forgot the name- oldest small car?) broken down….
also, in the star paper today, someone sent a pic of a gen2 suddenly going up in flames…
and HOW MANY PROTON WIRA'S bumpers u saw which are horribbly coming off? even quite new models like the gold color latest versions!!
and the worst thing is, have u noticed most of the local papers "praise" and keep publishing how GOOD THE SATRIO NEO IS!! somtimes i wanted to burn these papers (malay mail/NST) …man its like a real ad, and if u NEED A NEWSPAPERS to boast how good is your car, u aint worth to fight with the big boys!!
even some local car magazines got into this shameless ad…but i saw one of the magazines from singapore? the tester mentioned how his 5"11 frame felt REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE and barely able to see the windscreen during rain and intense sunlight, and how he wont buy the satrio neo and he was stunnned NOBODY AT PROTON noticed this problem during testing…
he also mentioned how unfortunate that the satrio neo USED THE SAME ENGINE AS THE WAJA AND GEN2..the so-called "campro" engine does not have the "campro" feature or whatever, and is UNDERPOWERED (if u dont beleiev, check 0-100kmh accelartion times compare to vios 1.5 or even city 1.5)….imagines 1.5 engine FASTER THAN PROTON 1.6!!..he said that if u hit a speed bump, the low torque shows
the same "praise" happens to the proton savvy…most of the so-called "test-drives" by local newspapers and magazines ARE NOTHING MORE THAN SELF-GLORIFICATION at helping proton…these "journalist and testers" should BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES….they are SUPPOSE TO HELP US EVALUATE A CAR WITHOUT BIAS, showing us the quality and perfomance..
just check the foreign UNBIASED TESTERS and see how bad the proton savvy/waja received…..
the press keep praising how good the proton
OK I dare someone here to bring his RM60k car to Bukit Tinggi and challenge the Neo going DOWNHILL. The Neo will never be beaten! HAhaaha
SatriaGuy said,
August 19, 2006 @ 6:29 am
OK I dare someone here to bring his RM60k car to Bukit Tinggi and challenge the Neo going DOWNHILL. The Neo will never be beaten! HAhaaha
I think you work for proton or is either a proton salesman. Furthermore, it also depends on driver skills etc etc. Not just "test Bukit Tinggi" can make a point.
Again, all talkand no action. Proton no good la. bankrupt la, bla, bla, bla. I bet you never had a date in your life and don't know the first thing about cars. I don't have to work for Proton to support it. I'm just proud of our company.
When are Malaysians going to learn from Singaporeans? They have always supported their national companies. Not all are efficient either but they stuck by them and now, they are a developed nation.
You aren't smarter than the people in Proton, even if you think you are. Stop killing your own country's efforts.
If Proton would to introduce another decent model to its current line up, I think they have a fairly good chance to meet it's desired target. Improvements need to be made on its reliability and design i suppose.
Previous acquisitions of MV Agusta and maybe Lotus did not proved to be successful in uplifting the image of the national car company. Money should have probably spent in more advance R&D and HR developement. Maybe the services of experienced foreign car designers could be sought after. I guess part of the population would prefer a nicer looking car to one which is fitted with a more aspirated engine. However built quality must not be undermined.
The new management of Proton is seemingly trying to put things up together. However has it been too late? or Perhaps uncorrectable damage had already been inflicted earlier? And failure to get the necessary support would prove to be detrimental to our already lack lustre economy. (eg unemployment rate would go up, local manufactures would be forced to wind up, lower contributions in taxes to govt, etc)
Only through strong increase in Proton sales in future will we see hope in the govt. making the foreign cars more affordable. Or else we'll just have to learn to live with it. Maybe a Proton Satria Neo sedan or 4 door concept would have more marketing appeal. It could be probably good if they sought the public opinion on design and preferences before launching new models in future.
Halo everybody ….. I dun think that race got anything to do with it la. It's just the quality of the product. Lousy! I owned 1 iswara and 1 wira before. I know how it feels like to keep repairing the car eventhough it was new at that time. LOUSY! If it got something to do with race, I believe that no other race in the world hate the Japanese more than the chinese after what they did in WW2. FYI, the Japs faced great resistance in China and unfortunately the Malaysian chinese also suffered for it. Do u know that? Then why most chinese owns a Toyota or Honda? It's simple….. VALUE FOR MONEY!
Have to agree with Jonkk there. All this hypes about Proton had just turned into racial sentiments. Its not worthy at all. Cheers
I owned an Iswara b4 and I love it for the 1st year. good power. 2nd year that thing starting to fall apart. macam mcam bunyi ada. even though its cheap, its not value for money. I felt like being cheated. ya la… I know its cheap but takkan la itu macam. Kalu kaya, repair no problem. bcoz not enough money at that time (just started working), iswara was the perfect choice. kancil too small. tested iswara, power ok. now i know why power ok. there is nothing there. car very light. kena langgar a bit, looks like i'm a stunt man for hollywood running at 200kmh but actually only 20kmh. this is not sarcasm but it is a fact. how to support proton like that? it's my life la! too risky….. I WILL NOT BUY ANY PROTON CARS EVER AGAIN!!!! savvy ad on tv very happening…. godzilla konon….. but wat i saw here in Sabah, Toyota Ninja punya "hook" at the back pun suda cukup….. savvy front gone. very pathetic. why? the savvy in the tv ad export model ka? we all kena di "anak tiri" la this…. "HUJAN EMAS DI NEGERI ORANG, HUJAN BATU DI NEGERI SENDIRI" should change to "PROTON EXPORT DI NEGERI ORANG, PROTON LOCAL BUNUH ORANG SENDIRI" "CEKIK DARAH"!!!
SatriaGuy said – "OK I dare someone here to bring his RM60k car to Bukit Tinggi and challenge the Neo going DOWNHILL. The Neo will never be beaten! HAhaaha"
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The first question you have to answer to your challenge is it merely to be narrow Protonian katak di bawah tempurung to become "Jaguh Kampong" on "Mat Rempit Illegal Racingâ€, or global view to become world class champion?
My point of view on your statement definitely is the former – jaguh kampong.
What are the technical performance you intend to test in this winding road – "lotus" handling? Stability? Break system? Drifting? etc, etc. Can Bkt Tinggi test conclusively prove that it can't be beaten means it is a good car?
OK, now look at our country location, Bkt Tinggi which is under the jurisdiction of NAP. That means car with RM 60K other than P1, but suppose to be similar prices under free market like in Langkawi are Civic, Corolla, Sentra or Lancer. But unfortunately this NAP thingy way of outdo foreign competitors like what SamGan said, “For those cheering proton on in this protected market, it’s like cheering an athletes running a race with competitors forced to carry 20 kilo weights on their backs.â€
So, if get RM 60K car, then Civic, Corolla, Lancer or Sentra have "to cut into half left with 2 tyre only" then can compete with Satria Neo (purely on price basis)???? Is this how Jaguh Kampong method to outdo its competitors?
OK, we are not interested to be jaguh kampong! And in noble way try to have global outlook to test in the level playing field! On price basis, say Satria Neo with pricing range from RM 45K (USD 12K) to RM 55K (USD 15K) export and put into American soil, say Interstate California Highway in order to have a world class test! Strictly on the price range basis, the Bolehland Satria Neo competitors may included but not limited to the following cars in UncleSamLand market: –
1. Chevy Aveo, Cavalier, Cobalt and PT Cruiser
2. Dodge Caliber.
3. Ford Focus.
4. Honda Civic & Fit.
5. Hyundai Accent & Elantra.
6. Kia Rio, Rio 5 & Spectra.
7. Mazda 3.
8. Mitsubishi Lancer.
9. Nissan Sentra & Versa.
10. Pontiac G5.
11. Saturn Ion.
12. Scion xA & xB.
13. Suzuki Aerio, Forenza & Reno.
14. Toyota Corolla, ECHO & Yaris.
15. VW Rabbit.
Satria Neo with "soft shell crab" body have to face and at the mercy of these "merciless competitors", then testing on all aspects of technical performance! So the likely results is "Soft" Neo will face the steely jaws of world class players.
SatriaGuy just think of your self, where and which part of technical performance Neo can compete and out do these world class players. We cannot make challenge that limited to becoming Jaguh Kampong only. As this will lead you no where forever without any improvement? If Neo so good, can Neo do it on world class basis? Can P1 start planning to export Neo?
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SatriaGuy said,
“Again, all talk and no action. Proton no good la, bankrupt la, bla, bla, bla. I bet you never had a date in your life and don’t know the first thing about cars. I don’t have to work for Proton to support it. I’m just proud of our company.
When are Malaysians going to learn from Singaporeans? They have always supported their national companies. Not all are efficient either but they stuck by them and now, they are a developed nation.
You aren’t smarter than the people in Proton, even if you think you are. Stop killing your own country’s efforts.â€
______________________________________________________________
“All talk†is reflected you like to talk all thingy not worth for consideration like this crap “Jaguh Kampong†challenge! “No actionâ€! Why need to take action by response to you to test Satria Neo at Bkt Tinggi since it is waste of time and at the end of it prove nothing?
How do you prove other don’t know first thing about cars? Another typical Protonian mentality of “don’t know how to differentiate between spectators, players and referee†in world cup game. For you, all you “know†is all of them is human only?
The BIG question is not Malaysians, but P1 going to learn from Singaporeans national companies, which initially not efficient in certain aspects but in very short period, emerge as world class player! Just compare SIA and MAS, historically they was split from MSA and now SIA become world class player respected in aviation industry worldwide as one of the best airline. Whilst MAS is now “very busy†with “slimming exercise†@ MSS to make it fit?
What happen? Shame to P1 as well, Koreans’ Hyundai and Kia also formed more or less same time with P1, but today Hyundai and Kia sold few million car a year whilst P1 even can’t reach 200K unit. How about export? The consumer never killing P1 effort, but the real problems are P1 FAILED misery in term of produce affordable, safe and quality car! The truth fact is there is so much tax payer money poured in for the P1 set up as well as billion of tax under NAP to make it survive. Unfortunately, this crappy so call “coveted national car†status suck every Ringgit that can suck from the pocket of Rakyat.
Of course rakyat already do their patriotic part as far as P1 set up and support the products. Sadly to say another main question is do P1 really patriotic? If P1 really patriotic, this “national institution†should also demonstrate it will protect the rakyat like our Angkatan Tentera Malaysia. If truly protect rakyat, then P1 should not suck RM from Bolehland, but export Neo or other models to Japan, China or Western countries and bring back all important world currencies like Yen, Yuan, USD or Euro to enrich and benefit the rakyat! When can P1 do it? Now already into 22nd year! Is it still needs another 10, 20, 30 or 40 year “protection†from rakyat before P1 can do it?
hmm…
to think that proton is hated thruout malaysia…i own a wira a/b…yes im kinda ashamed driving it…but its the only car im capable of paying…i agree that p1 manufac low quality cars, so if u think as that way, dont buy…buy other makers…yes i know, y didnt i bought another car thats worth the same as my present wira….hmmm…mostly because, maintenance…yes i know that maintenance wise proton suck blood…but its the basic of it that m not afraid of…whenever ur proton car starts to meragam…you know that u dont have a problem on spare parts…even the un-original ones…but for other makers? i'm not against proton, i like the neo, but the practicallity of it, the same goes for other cars…whats practical for ur own use.
SatriaGuy said, "I don’t have to work for Proton to support it. I’m just proud of our company".
Singaporean proud of their national companies like SIA, UOB, SingTel, Temasek Investment, etc by virtue of these companies manage properly by professional that achieve world class standard by making tonne of money and bringing back foreign currencies to enrich this "tiny red dot" southern neighbor.
What P1 and MAS achievement? These 2 so call "national company" already used billion of RM of tax payer money yet until today, below are what they are doing today: –
MAS – Carry out "slimming exercise" @ MSS to get fit but at the exorbitant cost of RM 800 million! and this is not a first time MAS facing loss making! If include other down sizing exercise, the sum is more than RM 4 billion?
P1 – Produce crappy relatively high price car, low quality yet unsafe that make our Bolehland "poor and ugly" motorist life become "dirt cheap" on the road!
So SatriaGuy, be honest, this 2 company used up billion of tax payer money yet losing money in doing their biz and/or need "more protection" from rakyat. So, ask rakyat to "change lifestyle", tighten the belt and let dig out more money from their pocket to support so call "national icon"?
So your above statement "I just proud of our company" means you still damn "proud", so is it "Tanjong Rambutan" is a suitable place for you?
Well, after so much rambling, I have all this to say. You don't ask anyone about their race, its blantant disrespect. It's like this statement (Which kampung did you come from?) I am a Chinese myself and I am utterly hurt to hear such racially disrespectful critisisms. Everyone has their own say here, but keep it clean, else Badawi would surely lock out Paultan for sure!
I've been a moderator for many forums, including one you may already know, www.lowyat.net . Personally, the government is in the right and in the wrong. If we support the local industry, we are allowing our fellow Malaysians to survive. Proton was created to create local jobs for the blue collar workers. Even my Proton salesman was my fathers friend and you can't blame him for working with Proton. Yes he drives a Perodua Kembara, not anything related to Proton, but you can't hate the company for the mistakes. Basically, Proton was on a slump after Tengku Mahaleel came in and that was pretty obvious! Our previous MD prior to Tengku Mahaleel died in a helicopter crash. Should Proton be runned by him, all outcomes may be different and there might not even be a Satria Neo. A company depends on the management itself. If the company is poor on social responsibility, it gets critisism, but wanting the Corporation to die off is just pretty much not gonna happen. You see your neighbours move away from you cause their jobs got taken away. Proton sources materials from other companies as well, so if Proton dies, most of the Malaysian economy suffers. Right now, Syed Zainal is on the right path of correcting the errors done by the previous MD, by using the miracles he did in Perodua. Look at Singapore, yes even though they support their country, but deep down they still hate Lee Kuan Yew, Goh Chok Tong and Lee Hsian Long. They pay double our car taxes, even though it isn't Proton. Which government is fair then? They even have to pay COE, certificate of entitlement. Then some more they have to pay ERT, if Malaysia imposes tolls in the city area just to compensate Proton, do you like it, even you can own a foreign car, you wouldn't have any roads for you to drive it, might as well take public transport then!
Malaysia is considered a very lucky country. A rotten apple from a box doesn't mean the rest of the apples are rotten! In this case, for Proton, the Satria Neo seems to be a good apple bred over time and they are willing to improve from their past mistakes while manufacturing Wira. Their overconfidence in complete monopoly for a sedan was the reason they failed to grow. No one wants to have the same thing over and over again in their life. I have driven a Proton saga for a short while, 3 months, and after 16 years, the Saga still works! Proof of Proton was doing their QC well. When my mother had the 1993 Proton Wira, QC was bad, most likely design faults, signal lights falling and e.g. Cousin bought a Gen-2 and the engine blew up in North South Highway. He had a Satria prior that and he said it was not having any problems. Clearly, this was bad administration by Proton after the acquisition of Lotus. So yes, I am driving the Satria Neo, I was turned off by the exploding Campro and wanted my dad to get me the Honda Integra DC2 , which I have owned one in Australia. I was really discouraged at first, but after driving weeks on a Proton, I found out the car was pretty much as good as my Honda Integra. So far I'm impressed with the Satria Neo, except the boot didn't had a keyslot, which makes it very troublesome.
It's Merdeka this month, Proton have helped and have also caused negative effects to the country, so love or hate it, bear with it. Everyone wishes the wellbeing of a person, unless you are too cruel to be a human
when I was small,if I am naughty and done something wrong,my parents would cane me and punish me,after thats my mom would comfort me and say,cane you becos we sayang you,scold you becos we love you,being eldest,I get most of this love, last few years till recently,I read though too many adverse commends ,report and dissatisfation of malaysian concerning our country eldest son,proton,I am touch by our efforts,wonder did PROTON know and understand that the more we commended and scold you, show that how deep our malaysian love ,care and concern about proton.think positive and improved and not narrow minded the other way.
i have deleted whatever racial comments i can find here. i am not singling anyone out, but you know who you are. more racial comments and i will delete your account.
i prefer to blog from outside a jail cell. my freedom to walk around as a free man instead of inside ISA or the jail or whatever is more important than your freedom of speech here. thank you.
hahah, thanks paul for helping me to filter the words, went bit overboard, but what i meant was, theres always a good side of everyone, has everyone here watched CRASH ? it's a moive about racism, maybe have a watch, but dont follow it!
Kevin Lee said "so if Proton dies, most of the Malaysian economy suffers".
The truth is the reverse because Malaysian economy support P1, not the other way round. If without P1 inception in the first place, today we enjoy FDI on auto sectors perhap greater than what Thailand achieve. You can check statistic on auto sector in term of investment and employment opportunity for Malaysia and Thailand. Then you will realize how far we fall behind.
Kevin Lee – "Look at Singapore, yes even though they support their country, but deep down they still hate Lee Kuan Yew, Goh Chok Tong and Lee Hsian Long. They pay double our car taxes, even though it isn’t Proton. Which government is fair then? They even have to pay COE, certificate of entitlement. Then some more they have to pay ERT"
__________
The above is because this "small red dot" already lack of space for human habitation, let alone find space for car. They don't have "national car", so they don't do it because want to protect local product but the above measures are mainly to control the car population in this tiny island state. But this are compensate by good and well plan public transport system which are affordable to anoyone who are working.
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Kevin Lee said, "If Malaysia imposes tolls in the city area just to compensate Proton, do you like it, even you can own a foreign car, you wouldn’t have any roads for you to drive it, might as well take public transport then!"
—————
The above shown that you are ignorant and constitute blatant statement by
relating tolls revenue to compensation for Proton! It is utter ridiculous statement as how do you justify it. LDP, PLUS, KESAS, etc is PFI or privatisation projects with concession agreement that the private sector finance and build the highway and G allowed them to recoup their investment plus profit through toll revenue!
If you say there is no road to drive for imported cars, then same will happen to P1 or public transport. I think the above statement totally out of context as you are ignorant of right of way for public road.
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Kevin Lee said, "I’ve been a moderator for many forums, including one you may already know"
With these kind of detritus half-past-six statements from the "horse of mouth" as the above well illustrated, how do you can become moderator with reputable, high caliber, unbias, highest standard and of course attain highest intellectual level? Wonder what kind of moderator you are with this kind of unsubstantiate statements!
Kevin Lee said, "Their overconfidence in complete monopoly for a sedan was the reason they failed to grow."
——————-
Are you study economy, according to Oxford Dictionary – mon•op•oly /mnpli; NAmE mnp/ noun (pl. -ies)
1 ~ (in / of / on sth) (business) the complete control of trade in particular goods or the supply of a particular service; a type of goods or a service that is controlled in this way: In the past central government had a monopoly on television broadcasting. Electricity, gas and water were considered to be natural monopolies
That means in the case of auto sector, it shall be 100% market share. Do P1 ever have complete 100% control of market share for sedan car? The best they can achieve is around 70%! They fail to grow is not because of over confidence in complete monopoly, but among main contributory factors are lack of R & D, unable to innovate, lack of latest technology in new design, need protection, no world class and best human capital and of course they can't grow because can't export P1 car in a significant number.
#
Joe Ooi said,
August 20, 2006 @ 1:25 am
Kevin Lee said “so if Proton dies, most of the Malaysian economy suffersâ€.
The truth is the reverse because Malaysian economy support P1, not the other way round. If without P1 inception in the first place, today we enjoy FDI on auto sectors perhap greater than what Thailand achieve. You can check statistic on auto sector in term of investment and employment opportunity for Malaysia and Thailand. Then you will realize how far we fall behind.
Can you ever reverse a situation and tell the government NOT to have PROTON at all. What done is done, its non-reversible. The idea was from Dr Mahathir himself and I did think he had a vision that it could help the country, however, his subordinates dissapointed him badly, especially Tengku Mahaleel. Theres so many IF statements, however, you can't change the past.
The above is because this “small red dot†already lack of space for human habitation, let alone find space for car. They don’t have “national carâ€, so they don’t do it because want to protect local product but the above measures are mainly to control the car population in this tiny island state. But this are compensate by good and well plan public transport system which are affordable to anoyone who are working.
Do you even think they really lack space, go to Singapore and you'll still find some empty land. No kidding, look around Changi area. Yes their public transport system is well plan and affordable. What well plan? Their MRT and LRT takes almost ages to arrive. Talk about well planned! I believe our Rapid KL shows them how good are transport system is. Cheap, affordable and best of all RM2! Plus my REAL point in the previous statement was to compare how lucky we are as Malaysian's, we could easily own a car, with reasonable subsidised petrol, better than Thailand and Singapore, though not a foreign car.
The above shown that you are ignorant and constitute blatant statement by
relating tolls revenue to compensation for Proton! It is utter ridiculous statement as how do you justify it. LDP, PLUS, KESAS, etc is PFI or privatisation projects with concession agreement that the private sector finance and build the highway and G allowed them to recoup their investment plus profit through toll revenue!
If you say there is no road to drive for imported cars, then same will happen to P1 or public transport. I think the above statement totally out of context as you are ignorant of right of way for public road.
I'm putting a if statement. Again I was relating that how lucky we are Malaysians that we don't have to put up ridiculous tolls in places of neccesity. Imagine having a toll in Jalan Bukit Bintang, Jalan Ipoh, Jalan Tuanku Abdul Rahman. These ERT's are everywhere. In contrast, look at London's system where they restrict everyone else by entering the city, by imposing payments as well. We are considered lucky that we don't have to pay a cent to be in the city. Whereas , in reality LDP, PLUS, KESAS, etc is PFI are outside the city loop. Is this really necessity or luxury? They are always public and private roads, please do the maths
With these kind of detritus half-past-six statements from the “horse of mouth†as the above well illustrated, how do you can become moderator with reputable, high caliber, unbias, highest standard and of course attain highest intellectual level? Wonder what kind of moderator you are with this kind of unsubstantiate statements!
moderator
One entry found for moderator.
Main Entry: mod·er·a·tor
Pronunciation: 'mä-d&-"rA-t&r
Function: noun
1 : one who arbitrates : MEDIATOR
(Based on Merriam Webster online)
A moderator is merely a mediator and one that helps sort out bad situations in a forum. It has nothing to do in creating half-past-six statements. Please get your information right. I told you guys I was unhappy with the racial remark, thats all. I've seen lots of it during the times I have been a moderator. My views and my intention to mediate are totally two different things. I'm pretty dissapointed with the way you wanna shoot people, after I tried to help to cool things down.
Are you study economy, according to Oxford Dictionary – mon•op•oly /mnpli; NAmE mnp/ noun (pl. -ies)
1 ~ (in / of / on sth) (business) the complete control of trade in particular goods or the supply of a particular service; a type of goods or a service that is controlled in this way: In the past central government had a monopoly on television broadcasting. Electricity, gas and water were considered to be natural monopolies
That means in the case of auto sector, it shall be 100% market share. Do P1 ever have complete 100% control of market share for sedan car? The best they can achieve is around 70%! They fail to grow is not because of over confidence in complete monopoly, but among main contributory factors are lack of R & D, unable to innovate, lack of latest technology in new design, need protection, no world class and best human capital and of course they can’t grow because can’t export P1 car in a significant number.
Before you even try to shoot me about wrong usage of a term, such as monopoly, please check your freaking grammar. "Are you study economy" That's totally bad English. Think what's wrong with you before you try to ask someone if you have read the dictionary. Again, I relate this to the similar situation above "Which kampung did you came from?"
In the past central government had a monopoly on television broadcasting. Electricity, gas and water were considered to be natural monopolies
Read that line, PROTON originally had 100% monopoly on the NATIONAL car market, prior to 1994, before having Perodua and other car companies. Even so, PROTON had monopoly in the mid-sized and large-sized national car market and Perodua had the monopoly for the small-sized national car market. Now with NAZA and LMG coming, that's no longer true. So PROTON has to struggle with Malaysia's new companies. Think about it. My monopoly statement was true, but was not clearly outline in English! However I agree that PROTON failed to grow up to international standards and that have badly affected the company. Similar to Perodua, the company had no chance marketing it's Small Little Kancil in UK. In reality, the national car companies suck, but can you tell them in the face? Think again
Joe, if you think any of my statements were wrong, fire away, but your attitude as a Malaysian, stinks badly! And no this has nothing to do with racism. It's how I feel that you are trying to gain a lot of attention by thinking you are saying the right thing, but you are not. So instead of being able helpful, please remain quiet at appropriate times. No one could tell if your a deaf/mute if you do that.
Kevin Lee said, "Can you ever reverse a situation and tell the government NOT to have PROTON at all. What done is done, its non-reversible. The idea was from Dr Mahathir himself and I did think he had a vision that it could help the country, however, his subordinates dissapointed him badly, especially Tengku Mahaleel. Theres so many IF statements, however, you can’t change the past."
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Of course as an individual I am not in the position and have the capacity to initiate change. The change have to come from G/P1. Hope you can forward this statement to a right party. Yes TDM had a vision but squarely blamed TM on P1 calamities is uncalled for, no doubt that he also partly contribute to sad state of P1.
Definitely we can't re-write history, and history is belong to victor. Sometime there are more than 1 version of history for the same event, depend on which opposite side write on it. Of course I totally agree with you that we can't change the past, but we can learn from the past failure and mistakes make necessary adjustment, improvement for better future. We can't let our past failures/mistakes keep on prolonging, inflict losses to us and continue to fail us in the future. Can P1 power window issue, absorber, door handle, etc continue to be failure for the past, present and drag on to the future and let the rakyat suffer and G still have to drag on NAP. We can't change the past but we can set a right direction for the future which is "independent" from our past failure/mistakes then only we can improve. For auto sector, any attempt to maintain current NAP/P1 structure is means there is no improvement, but regression. MD SZ initiate some changes but only limited to "house cleaning". Can he make P1 export their car? This is the real challenge and long term survival for P1.
Kevin Lee said, "Do you even think they really lack space, go to Singapore and you’ll still find some empty land. No kidding, look around Changi area".
The answer is definitely YES that they lack of space, Singapore is one of the country in the world with highest population density (total people/area of land or how many person per sq km). The clear sign and ground evidents are:
1. Their development is gear upward, that is build more highrise to accomodate more people per sq km area.
2. They keep on reclaim land to enlarge the land area of Singapore.
3. Green area, yes in any good city planning, there must be a space allocated for this green zone. Even London have Hyde and Regent Part smack in the centre of city. Same to Central Park at New York and KLCC also have park and lake for truly world class development that take into consideration the human social and recreational needs.
I am not a town planner or architect, but you can find more info from internet or from them.
Can someone tell me why we are discussing about Singapore's land availability or population density here?
OK since it is my statement, the burden is on me to explain it. This statement is merely in response to Kevin Lee, and in no way relevant to the topic of this forum. Noted your comment and all off-topic shall try to avoid it where possible.
Its sad to see that Proton is being compared to the likes of our more established European and Japanese counterparts as what had been suggested by many the above commentaries. They, the other established auto makers had their fair share of problems in the beginning as well. Proton's developement up till today could still be consider at the infancy stage. And unfortunately much would have to done by P1 to be seen competitive in this industry.
Hurtful critism would not help to improve the situation any better. I guess Paul and the other concerned commentators would prefer to hear more constructive opinions and questions raised which are more relevant to the current topic of discussion.
Joe Ooi, I have heard about your statement. I apologize to Paul Tan if I have mentioned anything irrelevant. Back on track, I have confidence that Proton will do better under Syed's management. Hopefully this is the way we will see it.
Kevin Lee said, "Read that line, PROTON originally had 100% monopoly on the NATIONAL car market, prior to 1994, before having Perodua and other car companies."
The original line, "Their overconfidence in complete monopoly for a sedan was the reason they failed to grow".
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So, I interpreted according to what you write, "over confidence in complete monopoly for a sedan car", and I argue on your inappropriate interpretation of "monopoly" from economic perspective.
Now you change it to "PROTON originally had 100% monopoly on NATIONAL car market"…….. You change so fast for the sake of 2 probable out-come: –
1. You try "to twist and turn" at your own whims and fancy in a desperate attempt to cover up your weakness! or
2. You have positive outlook and looking to make necessary change and improvement when there are positive criticisms against you which have strong basis for you not to ignore it. So you make necessary corrective and constructive action(s).
But looking at the way you argue "Think about it. My monopoly statement was true, but was not clearly outline in English!" most likely reflected the 1st probable outcome as mentioned above. Worst is that you are not only don't admit your inappropriateness, but try to cover up your shortcoming by adopt "blame shifting" approach by blame – "not clearly outline in English"? What, I already posted in this forum about the meaning of "monopoly" from reputable Oxford Dictionary which is clearly describing the meaning of it. Friend, hope you can adopt no. 2. Otherwise, it is very hard for you to learn and improve your self. Friend don't try to "tegak benang yang basah" –
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Kevin Lee said, "I’m putting a if statement. Again I was relating that how lucky we are Malaysians that we don’t have to put up ridiculous tolls in places of necessity".
Totally agreed with this statement, but your previous statement relating the collection of tolls to compensate P1 is utterly ridiculous and "out of context". Are you suggesting that NAP still not enough, put in more "punishing measure" to squeeze even more on rakyat to cover up P1 total disgraceful failure?
Of course we are lucky, but that doesn't mean we have to waste and sacrifice our limited economic resources to accommodate P1 failure and inefficiency? The economic cost P1 this failure already run into hundred of billion (according to my estimate) for the last 2 decade. So, some of your statement imply that we have to continue accommodate this failure in the past, present and future, without make changes! This is a human mistake that can be remedy and change!
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Kevin Lee said, "Before you even try to shoot me about wrong usage of a term, such as monopoly, please check your freaking grammar. “Are you study economy†That’s totally bad English."
Noted you comment, I am a person has positive outlook open to criticism and receptive to +ve comments from anyone, including you! So, “Are you study economy†may improve to “Do you study economic on monopoly subject?†(Check with Microsoft’s Spelling and Grammar) Or other further improvement to this is welcome!
So just to ask your opinion, how about McDonald marketing language – “I’m lovin itâ€, how about spelling and grammar? How about UK PM Tony Blair election slogan of “MOVE FORWARD, NOT BACK†Any comment?
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Kevin Lee said, “Joe, if you think any of my statements were wrong, fire away, but your attitude as a Malaysian, stinks badly! And no this has nothing to do with racism. It’s how I feel that you are trying to gain a lot of attention by thinking you are saying the right thing, but you are not. So instead of being able helpful, please remain quiet at appropriate times. No one could tell if your a deaf/mute if you do thatâ€.
I refute and disagree with your statement. I am here not to pin-point or "fault finding" on what you said, but merely to share something which in my opinion are good info and knowledge. I here not to launch “war†with you, never in my mind try to act smart and make other “stupidâ€. Everyone entitle to their opinion, and every one also has the right not to agree with everything what other people say. Cheers to you, peace upon each other ……..
Evverytime there's a topic bout Proton, it'll come out with a lot of comments n feedbacks with irrelevants inside n bashing around and some positive feedbacks… so we're all still care bout Proton right? hehe…
Yeah. I bet all those guys are just frustrated coz their income bracket still couldn't let them drive something more expensive, so they vent out on Proton
proton sales increase by 21%,recent satria neo launching may be one contributing factor,the other factor,i am not amused,having high stock and lack sales lead proton into giving discount,o down payments,10 years repayments,etc,etc,i do not wish to explain detail but give you all the aftermath,1)more proton being reprocess ,PPL with no money or simply cannot effort,jump into this deal of a life time,only to discover they cannot repays the loans,2)poor consumer will had to drive the proton for at least 6 years before they can think of selling,owed finance more,then trade in value,negative assets,3)promoted bad financial planning,encourage PPL into more financing,like the credits card mania,a lot of young malaysian were live their life painfully with heavy debts shouldering on them,unhappy and more family social crisis were emerge through this type of sales promotion.i rest my cased.
what was done at peroduo is no miracle. it was just the right choice of choosing which car to rebadge and refit the parts with more local parts.
with proton cars you need to drive about a year then u know how bad it is. your proton neo is brand new, of course its gonna be good to drive. how can u compare with the old integra thats more than 12 years old design. until you have both cars side by side brand new then u can compare. even the dc5 integra was taken off the market already coz it cant compete with the new hot hatches outthere.
look at the savvy….good handling but nobody is buying. even lotus elise, brilliant handling but not many people want to buy it. besides the handling, everything else cannot compare. and the majority of people in that market segment will not put handling as a high priority. proton should learn from lotus's mistake that brought the whole company down until nobody wants to buy it even with the expertise they had.
SatriaGuy said,
Yeah. I bet all those guys are just frustrated coz their income bracket still couldn’t let them drive something more expensive, so they vent out on Proton
How could you driving cars more expensive than Potong given the 'outsider' cars has more tax than Potong thus increase the price over than its really worth…
In my calculation i really can afford the new 2.0 civic if NO overtaxes(means no overprice) from the G's you know….
I believe more people in this blog can drive bigger,better,powerful,fuel saving,safety(ABS,airbags and etc),problem free(if no 'rally' style applied) cars than potong cars that need H-line for full spec(why Potong don't standardize the ABS and airbag) that certain people afford when the differences is safety feature?.
SatriaGuy said, "Yeah. I bet all those guys are just frustrated coz their income bracket still couldn’t let them drive something more expensive, so they vent out on Proton"
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Are you sure with what you are talking about? If all those guys frustrated because of power window failured, condemn absorber, freaking door handle, queking sound after few month, etc, etc, …… Are all these crap P1 stuff related to "their income bracket still couldn't let them drive something more expensive"? Ask your self because you can make a sound judgement on this matter!
you all should really proud that your country have a national car…sod sad,my country dont have a national cars..yes,the car is very good,ex honda..but we use others country car,which makes their country really proud,not me.thats mean my country is far behind,even if my country want to introduce national car,we will far behind from proton..be proud with proton,now u are more advanced compare than indon or thailand,they just only plug and play others makers..the time will come…
I wonder what Proton really learnt or improve over all these years. Again and again, it is clear that quality really sucks. Quality for Proton is just like Sang Kancil stories, just a folklore. I own Proton Neo for a month now, guess what I went 5 times to workshop to get things fixed. Yet, today I have the same problem returning back. To make thing worst I spend time in Proton workshop then in office doing my work. Guys!! I need to earn to pay for this silly car.
I going back to workshop again to get wheel fixed. Just another Proton owner.
asimo, which country you come from, appreciate you can let us know. Anyway, you are the one who should really proud because of your country don't have "national car". If your country have national car, likely that you can't afford your Honda car just like most of us and somemore, your national car likely just like us, have to headache with power window failured, absorber "kong" within a year, unsafe car, ripe off body, high price low quality and the list go on. Now you own Honda, all this not happen! Congratulation to you and your country smart leader for not implementing "national car" project! Good luck to you enjoying driving imported car at afforable price yet with the best safety and quality features in the market. Congratulation one more time to you. So you should be happy, not sad!
SatriaGuy said, “Yeah. I bet all those guys are just frustrated coz their income bracket still couldn’t let them drive something more expensive, so they vent out on Protonâ€
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So all Perodua owner like Kancil, Kelisa, Kembara and MyVi owner also can't afford to drive something more expensive under NAP! MyVi prices from around RM 38K to RM 49K, so without NAP, Honda (Jaz, City), Toyota (Yaris, Vios), Nissan (Sentra, March), Mitsubishi (Lancer), Suzuki Swift, Hyundai (Accent, Elantra ), Kia (Rio, Spectra), etc all price within this range! Now NAP make all MyVi owner can't afford all these cars, if what you said is true, why all those guys DON'T just frustrated and vent out on Perodua???????????
SatriaGuy, you seem like to come out with "funny" statement!
Lets look at this at another perspective. Do you guys know how bad p1 cars resale values are? the 02'-03' iswara if taken in by 2nd car shop is around 14K only. Dun take my word for it. Find out yourself.
Be minded though that's just a 3 to 4 yr old car. What more to say after paying up for the car for 10 years. This is ridiculous.
I'm sorry Joe but I only say what's obvious. Come on, let me take you on a ride with the Satria Neo. I'm sure you'll enjoy it :)
Based solely on his writing here at Paul's Place, it's glaringly obvious that Joe's too twisted and bitter to enjoy anything.
Hopefully this is merely a digital persona he wears here for our amusement.
SatriaGuy said,
August 20, 2006 @ 2:46 pm
Yeah. I bet all those guys are just frustrated coz their income bracket still couldn’t let them drive something more expensive, so they vent out on Proton
no..I'm driving a good car..but I just pity PROTON driver have to open their doors everytime they want to pay toll or collect parking tickets. and I'm always to explain politely to foreigners(if they with me) who just once thought that "msian are just too polite to open their door when paying tolls at the booth" hahahah what a myth.
and one more think I just dont like to see the fake smile on Proton drivers… you wont be happy if your car "rosak" before you drive out the showroom after you collected the car with 9 years installments 4.1%PA.]
and about the challenge to "BUKIT tINGGI" the NEO SHOULD BE CLIMBING ONE WEEK EARLIER THAN OTHER MAKES….so we will start racing at the same day, y'know if the Neo can make to climb first…
asimo, which country you come from, appreciate you can let us know. Anyway, you are the one who should really proud because of your country don’t have “national carâ€. If your country have national car, likely that you can’t afford your Honda car just like most of us and somemore, your national car likely just like us, have to headache with power window failured, absorber “kong†within a year, unsafe car, ripe off body, high price low quality and the list go on. Now you own Honda, all this not happen! Congratulation to you and your country smart leader for not implementing “national car†project! Good luck to you enjoying driving imported car at afforable price yet with the best safety and quality features in the market. Congratulation one more time to you. So you should be happy, not sad!
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wow…
whats your contribution to your own country??condem your national car??
come on joe oii…proton just 20 years in industry..if im not mistaken only from year 2000 proton launched their official malaysian car which is waja…wira is mitshubshi…now with only 6 years from waja,proton already have satria neo,savvy,which i think is a good car…i already test drive it…quite good..not 100 % good…yeah proton still young compare with others…but its show malaysia boleh..malaysia now really advanced,can make their own engine,own car compare than others in asean….
why you a really angry…I also think you just frustrated coz your income bracket still couldn’t let you drive something more expensive…dont anggry my friend…work hard..collect more money….your petrol price is reallly damn cheap…in my country,no sense own a honda car,but use honda motorcyle becos the petrol price really expensive…our salary also not high like you…
if i am malaysia,i will be like korean people,really proud with their product….you will celeberating independent days…be proud to be malaysian…ask yourself whats your contribution to YOUR country….can u make car ??can you design car??
Kevin Le….HAPPY MERDEKA DAY…
satria neo really a good car…cant wait for the gti version
satria neo is made for "lepricorn" or "the dwarfs"
p/s if it so good why there is delay for the launching?
p/s2 in future there will be more fatality on road because of the excellent design for neo.
p/s3 Proton a car that have no respect but still coat a bomb.
SatriaGuy said, "I’m sorry Joe but I only say what’s obvious. Come on, let me take you on a ride with the Satria Neo. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it"
Yes what you said is obvious that there are many guys out there vent their anger at P1. This for me is totally agreed with you, but what I want to say is the reasoning put forward by you is not valid! The above post is well illustrated. Sorry to say that I post any comment not to show I am "smart" and also not try to potray other "dumb", but just to share correct info and good reasoning!
But anyway thanks for your offer on your Satria Neo ride, I have a friend who own one.
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Matthew Seleigh said,
"Based solely on his writing here at Paul’s Place, it’s glaringly obvious that Joe’s too twisted and bitter to enjoy anything".
"Hopefully this is merely a digital persona he wears here for our amusement".
See how good you are in projected your self as "saint" by paint a misrepresentation on other. You mentioned that I am "too twisted and bitter to enjoy anything". Give me an example(s) of my post to justify the above statement? Failing which, I consider your post just another moronic yet malicious wild accusation design to inflict irreparable damage and part of your greater dubious intention to launch "character assasination" toward me.
Your further baseless accusation mentioned that "…… merely a digital personna he wears here for our amusement". what "amusement" you talking about? You think I am "Mr Bin" or "David Copperfield" put up greatest show on earth for entertainment? And remembered, you still "owed me an explanation in previous post".
As I said before, I am just a layman earning a decent living. Anything or other wild accusation that describe about me other than my clarification as what you said is tantamount to defamation and your obnoxious intention to "seek pleasure out of other suffering"!
Whatever you say here is reflected you. Look at one of the "good example" posted by you recently to prove my point: –
'Matthew Seleigh said,
August 16, 2006 @ 2:31 pm
At the risk of sounding a bit cynical, what a great way to draw attention to a vehicle that wouldn’t make a blip on most people’s radar. There’s been massive promotional value to this. In fact, I’ll stick my neck out and say that is the only value it is likely to provide.
But as a practical method of reducing fuel consumption by 50 percent? Not unless we see a parlimentary bill to change the laws of physics, if then."
1. How do you know LMG car do not attract "significant" attention, what statistical evident in your possesion to back up your claim? You want to "stick out your neck" without basis? "Think twice"!
2. The worst now is here, what you means by "parlimentary bill to change the laws of physics, …"? Do you know what type of laws pass by Malaysian parliament? I know for 100% that it never pass any "laws of physics". What you want to try to potray, you are "Albert Einstein"? E = MCC?, so MCC = "Mong Cha Cha"?
Sorry to Paul Tan out of topic again. Anyway back to topic, the Satira Neo or P1 car sales figure compare on month-to-month is not a good indication of the sales performance! And it is not indicate at all the increase in annual sales volume unless it has "apple-to-apple" comparison by compare to corresponding month in previous year as normally "practice" in auto circle!
asimo said, "wow…whats your contribution to your own country??condem your national car??"
What my contribution to my own country? Just give you direction BUT…. you have to take action(s) at your own cost and expenses since you like to know. You can go to Income Tax Department to check my tax contribution (subject to consent from them, not me). You also can check at P1 office how much extra tax under NAP paid by me in purchased 2 new cars from P1 lol.. (also subject to P1 consent, not me).
"condem your national car??"'…..why you a really angry". So you are non-English speaking just like me? This is your wildest accusatiion against me WITHOUT FIRST LET ME TO MAKE CLARIFICATION?
You have malicious intention by used "condemn and angry". Let me clarify that I am just give constructive "criticism and unhappy" customer, and also concern tax payer citizen. So if you don't understand and/or can't differentiate on all these wordings, then below is Oxford Advance Learner's Dictionary website to check the meaning: –
http://www.oup.com/elt/select?url=/eltnew/catalog…
Cannot be lazy to learn the meaning of these words ah …….
Well said Jeff!
It not all about bitching or bad mouthing Proton! Proton has lots of potential locally and internationally. But as consumers, we have the right of say and as a huge company, please listen to your customers' point of view. We are giving you direct feedback with regards to your products and services. You don't need an expat consultant to come in and give you these feedback.
People will not be critising Proton, if Proton at least shows the people that they are trying. Here, Proton doesn't even try and yet don't want to listen to their direct customers!
Volvo had this same mentallity some decades ago (from the days when they were producing square metal boxes) until they started listening to their customers and suppliers. Look what rolls out from their plants…. award winning cars! Today, makers like Hyundai and Kia are on that track too. And everyone can see the improvements with them.
Joe Ooi…..sudah la tu
please back to the topic.
we already know so much about proton, all the bad and good about it. We know so much about NAP and tax structure.
Proton is not just to build car, it how Malaysia can develop it's own capability to industrialized the country from acquiring technology, research and development, manufacturing, marketing and servicing. It is hard to build this industrial chain in 20 years where we are nothing before this. Before Proton, we just buy a foreign car, from Europe to Japan. We gave value to european and japanese people and our money flew to foreign country where this money can be used to build our own country.
Joe Ooi,
Do you know that, with our knowledge, even we have the best scientist and engineer, we still cannot afford to build a plastic cup or a pencil? For all these years, we depends so much on foreign investments, the only thing we have is Petronas and Proton. Telekom didn't help so much on industrialising our country because they just buy equipment from foreign companies like ericsson and motorola.
I know you're mad ad Proton, me too. Many people mad at Proton. This is Paultan blog, when he start a new topic, please stay on topic OK. I've been following this blog nearly 1 and a half year. Most of your comment is just a repeating comment from past topic. If you think you have the right to write, please ask Paultan personally. OK
Cheers
My current Wira A/B face a problem with the so famous 'window problem' after four years of usage. And it come with special melody from the dashboard…now I wish to buy new Waja Campro. Hope proton can offer a higher trade-in for their own products.
catchcart – Thanks and noted your comment.
Also thank Paul for me to put out somethng not relevant to topic! But Paul at his absolute discretion to edit any comment as it deem fit from his point of view!
shaif said,
August 21, 2006 @ 3:23 pm
My current Wira A/B face a problem with the so famous ‘window problem’ after four years of usage. And it come with special melody from the dashboard…now I wish to buy new Waja Campro. Hope proton can offer a higher trade-in for their own products.
dont buy please…you will face the same power window problem…Campro engine very high fuel consumption…the interest rate of Proton is very high compare to other makes…if you want value for your money and comfort of a new car…just go for other makes…delete Proton from your list…
p/s once you agreed to purchase a Proton they will give you the old model…onced you have signed the documents..for sure please dont be a victim.
wei,you r stupid to let the salesman give u the old model.before u sign,juz look first at ur car.if u hve to wait,wait la,if u satisfied,take it.ma fren hve dat problem.he ordered wira sedan with harimau logo,but get the bulan bintang logo.so he complained.n he get what he want then.
what..other make low fuel consumption meh?same la..if u'r driving above 2000cc car,dun expect the fuel consumption is below 6.1L/km…
think la..aiyo…
FYI..
all campro's fuel consumption is 6.1L/km.
matmoto_5125 said, "FYI.. all campro’s fuel consumption is 6.1L/km".
Under what condition you said that the Campro FC is 6.1 L/km? I don't dispute it can achieve this figure, but on practical side, FC may affected by the following factor(s): –
1. Drive in city road or highway or go up Genting/Bukit Tinggi.
2. Fit in what model of cars? Currently Waja, Neo and Gen-2 fitted with this engine and their different weight have bearing on FC.
3. I believed 1.3L and 1.6L also have different FC eventhough the different might be small.
i think this blog now is like joeooi.org,heheheehehe……thanks for the dictionary,it will help me improve my english…it may looks stupid if i speak bahasa indonesia. .www.joeoii.org (goodblog)
So you are Indonesian, congratulation to you. You mentioned that you have Honda motorcycle only and don't have money to own Honda car. If not mistaken, during Soeharto time there was planned to make your country "national car" call “Putra†in collaboration with Kia, luckily it is not materialized. Otherwise, Kia quality worst than Mitsubishi and if re-badge to Putra, then P1 car lead to a lot of headache and "Putra" straight away lead to "heart attack".
You are still lucky can own Honda motorcycle, if "Putra" exist today, you may can afford bicycle, or left with your 2 foot to walk only. I also want to “pray-pray†very hard that your country do not make “national motorcycle†like us. Most of engine and its component source from China/Taiwan, price comparable to Honda but the second hand value is “NO VALUE†– no body want “just like 70 year old man no power needs Viagraâ€. Last time I owned Honda EX 5 as well, purchased it at around RM 3,300 and 4 year later still have secondhand value of RM 2,300 (approx. 70%)!
As you mentioned that I frustrated coz my income bracket still couldn’t let me drive something more expensive… is totally not true at all. I admitted that I can’t afford Mercs or BMW but my income bracket still can afford to buy mid sedan car like Toyota Camry 2.0L or Honda Accord 2.0L price at around RM 130 ++. I am not trying to show off but the only thing I hold back my decision is because I don’t want to pay that crappy NAP suck tax! That why last time I challenged Matthew Seleigh but he dare not to take up this challenge to pay the suck NAP tax for me, then I can any time booking this kind of car! He, he, he, ………. To make this kind of “patriotic tax†contribution, I better donate it to your countrymen that suffering from Tsunami effect, rather than make my country crocs become bigger and fatter!
I always proud to be Malaysian and patriotic all the time by become concern tax payer and contribute to nation building. My country independent day just around the corner, I never fail to celebrate it every year even during my time at oversea.
P1 is the real culprit that always asking for handout from G and protection from rakyat. Never shame at all that as “national iconâ€, P1 should protect the rakyat interest since getting so much tax payer money allocation and rakyat support for the last 2 decade! Please remember, do not associate “WHITE ELEPHANT†project with patriotism. If this “white elephant†is in Korea, the CEO and board member most likely already throw into the jail lol, ……. Malaysia is very lucky, that guy still can talk loud!
asimo, you never stupid if you speak Indonesian, be proud of your national language.
Joe Ooi said,
August 21, 2006 @ 3:58 pm
catchcart – Thanks and noted your comment.
Also thank Paul for me to put out somethng not relevant to topic! But Paul at his absolute discretion to edit any comment as it deem fit from his point of view!
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Joe,
Please spare some thoughts for Paul. This poor soul spares his free time to constantly update this wonderful blog of his.
It's unfair to actually want Paul to clean up your jabberings like, everyday?
My eyes are spinning.
you will not understand my languale la bro..if i speak java…hehehhe….
open your own blog joe….
open your own blog!!joe..u always talk the same thing…