Proton showcased this Proton Saga EV at the Indonesia International Motor Show happening right now. According to the specs revealed at the show, this Saga EV uses a 15 kWh lithium ion polymer battery that can be quick-charged in just one hour, or via a conventional wall outlet in between 6 to 8 hours. 0 to 100km/h time is reached in 12 seconds, on to a top speed of 110km/h.
The quickcharge time seems quite short compared to other EVs that usually take about 2 hours but you have to remember the battery size also seems smaller compared to say, the Nissan Leaf which uses a 24 kWh battery. The Chevrolet Volt uses a 16 kWh battery but it has a range extender.
A red Proton Saga EV Concept shown in Malaysia back in mid-2009 featured a specifications sheet that listed a larger battery – 20kWh, that took up the entire trunk space. In that red car, the battery is able to power the car for about 109km on the NEDC driving cycle.
This white Saga EV in Indonesia and that red Saga EV from last year seems to have an identical engine bay, in fact you can see one area in the white car’s engine bay’s firewall that reveals an area of red paint underneath it, so I think this is the same car but with some modified specs perhaps?
A smaller battery would usually mean a shorter maximum mileage on a full charge (Proton did not reveal maximum range but I am guessing around 60km since the Volt’s 16kWh battery gets 65km) but as we talked about yesterday, Proton intended the Saga EV concept demonstrator to tackle basic urban city driving needs (hence the 110km/h top speed), with another Persona EV concept demonstrator developed to have a longer range.
It’s worth nothing that this is just a concept demonstrator and probably doesn’t reflect any of the specs of a production car, if Proton ever decides to build one. And where in the middle of all of this is Detroit Electric? No idea. Look after the jump for more photos.
After dabbling for years in the IT industry, Paul Tan initially began this site as a general blog covering various topics of personal interest. With an increasing number of readers paying rapt attention to the motoring stories, one thing led to another and the rest, as they say, is history. An avid electronic gadget aficionado as well as big-time coffee lover, he's also the executive producer of the Driven motoring TV programme.
I thought the Indonesia International Motor Show in August…already planned to go there.. argh..too bad for me.. Nice Saga EV
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where you got those news?
weird la you…
poorly rated…. man, dont just bash without a good fact..
where u get the ‘script’ ken2.. ???
cakap tak pikir langsung,bengong!
hopefully, this EV concept will kickstart industry in Malaysia…
great for taxis!
nope.. taxis will need to recharge too frequently. NGV can go 2-300km per refill, so if this car need to go similar distance, it will need 5 recharge sessions, and a whopping 5 hours wasted. unless if they could stop and exchange batteries at stations, which would be much quicker than recharging.
Are you sure? Each tank NGV go 100+ KM, for sure less then 200km for the biggest gas tank.
But it is true for the recharge time wasted part, unless a fleet taxi is able to do a quick swap within their fleet. But then, that would translate into super escalated cost to set up the whole thing.
It is not impossible because there are some logistics companies is running EV fleet to deliver goods.
NGV refill at Pressure of about 250kPa (if not mistaken) can go about 200++km…
I worked as pump attendant before… and NGV station i work have hi pressure NGC supply…
I talked to many taxi drivers… they said they can go that far with that pressure…
I am a big believer that EV will take off in near future as the price of oil definately shoot up as oil reserve dries up. This is an odd reality that we all know Malaysia will be near importer of oil by 2016 and world oil reserve will dries up by 2050. But i think initially all EV must be equip with mini generator engine to charge up or as back up for electrical motor.
More importantly is where are we going to get clean power from? The petrol that we use daily is refined Mid East oil. Which has been the case for a few decades now. We have been living with imported oil. The only tangible, within reach source is nuclear power. At least when we get parity with photovoltaic cells. From what I know, it will take years of process enhancement before we come to that point. There is great external political and economic pressure for alternative energy not to succeed. Those who can make it cheap have been given obstacles. What would happen to the big auto manufacturers if all that is needed to make a car is some sheet metal, some plastics, an electric motor, an air-con system, a battery and a controller?
we already have 40% excess capacity of power supply. Thankx to IPP.
it’s 0% air pollution from EV. But if you take the energy source at power plants being coals and petroleum into consideration, it’s not 100% clean but still a lot better than combustion engines.
Put this into perspective: you would have to pay a lot more to install exhaust filter into every car on the road (we’re talking about millions of cars), compared to just one massive filter at power plant. the carbon capture technology is already being used in power plants, and if the same tech being used on cars, even Saga would be priced like Mercedes. Besides, we wouldn’t be depending on petrol or coals forever. Wind power is growing at the rate of 30% annually, worldwide.
I am very sure the oil giants are keeping all the patents of relable EV or battery technology until the time where it becomes commecially viable. I read about how oil giants buy rights to these technology so that oil industry be kept profitable. In fact Henry Ford already making commercially viable EV until his factory was mysteriously burn to the ground. Probably business is more important that environment as the main reason.
http://detroit-electric.com.my/
Detroit Electric website….
like this!!
Once the battery spoil,that’s about it.It would cost a quater of the car price.Just guessing
in a comment I made last week in, I got few thumbs down when I wrote that I heard a senior JPJ official mentioned in live radio that they are testing a local electric vehicle.
Looks like this is the one..
.
ahaha.. don’t be sulking ya.. keep on commenting, we appreciate positive thoughts
great job proton… well done…
this model had once come to utp last semester lol
yey, im first,
hehe,
well, i like proton saga in this colour design.
we must give our support to proton to show their abilities to improve our national car,
If they want,they can improve a long time ago.The only reason why they are trying to improve better now is cause of the competitor. Perodua is doing better sales even without G support but Proton even with G support still………………
Anyway,your not the FIRST.More like 1×10+
LOL
u are wrong, perodua is supported by G, thats why they got NATIONAL CAR TITLE and previlage eventhou they are actually just a downdraged japanese car assembler..
somemore perodua sales better not becoz perodua itself, but toyota/daihatsu name behind them. if perodua make their OWN car.. i beleive noboday want to buy it
prrrtfhhhh
i agree with you.
p1 took 1000 steps backwards by rebadging the lancer. very disappointing.
its an agreement with Mitsubishi. why don’t you tell Mitsu that they took 100000 steps backwards by going to rebadging the Exora and Persona?
Step backwards? How so, when many other car companies practice rebadging, especially for niche cars that cater to a small market?
Proton buyers are buying Exora, Persona and Saga by the bucketloads, so they’re rightly focused on these cars. That’s why the Persona R’s is designed by Giugiaro. If they wanted to step back why then they chose NOT to rebadge another car to replace the Persona? What benefit is there for Proton to spend money to develop a small seller like the Waja, when they could spend it making their bestsellers better? Besides, bashers like you would scream to high heaven when they spend money anyways. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
So do other car makers take 3000 steps backward by sharing chassis? (Nissan – Renault comes to mind)
nope… it is not 1000 steps backwards…
it is norm for car manufacturer having rebadge model/collaboration and homeground /own model… take a look Daihatsu, nissan… they have their own model mira and also rebadge from toyota luminas, sirion etc..
agree! rebagdeing is just using a flathead screwdriver to pry off the old badge and put yours on, which is what proton and naza do. p2 does platform sharing when they localise the platform they get from daihatsu.
which is similar ( very loosely ) to what vw does with its platform to derive models for its Seat Skoda and Audi brands.
P2 is platform sharing and P1 is rebadging? hahahahahaha!
give me screwdriver, i need to fix dicky’s head. maybe he got some loose screws somewhere.
Then if Proton dont have Mitsubishi backing in the 80 & 90′s will anyone buy it? So does the new Waja lancer?!?
conclusion.. ah beng malaysia buy perodua/proton just becoz of Daihatsu and Mitsubishi .. not becoz of perodua or proton it self…
heheh pity malaysia japs wannabe
prrrrtfhhh
aiyo littlefire..
all car manufacturer do the sharing and rebadge thing la.. but not 100% their car line up like P2 does. And p1 so long after wira then they take partner again with mitsu itu pn 1 model only..
L.O.L.. ha ha ha.. what a joke!!
you are in Malaysia or what? you dont know meh?
you read about national car in malaysia first, then, comment… LOL
although honda n toyota n other are pioneer in hybrid n ev cars, but proton will pioneer ev car in malaysia.. hope the price not too much..
it would be just 20-30% extra.
p1 won’t be selling it though. the standard Saga is already pricey.
its a dream within a dream.
INCEPTION!! HAHAHA =)
Still too many compromises to be an alternative to the petrol – electric hybrid.
anyway the new waja images are on net now…full images..looks exactly like the current lancer…having protons own front grille and radio from clarion..i wonder how the mitsu lancer going to be differentiated…
I don’t know about you guys, but is the current Mitsu Lancer not selling well?
i think globally its doing no better than the previous lancer. it could have sold well locally if they priced it between the Forte and the low end Altis.
P1 have been sourcing gearboxes from Mitsu and will be doing that forever ever and ever everlasting evermore ever ever! so P1 probably managed to strike a better deal by way of sharing their platform with Mitsu. way better than the previous lancer(s) deals hopefully.
dont worry bro
nope..not selling at all…
mitsubishi malaysia would pull-out their lancer line-up to give proton way…..
in exchange i heard,mitsu would use proton chasis from exora and other similiarly developed new design from proton..(i think this would work well)
Now they back to basic. Once again the wira age had been summoned again.
Use same platform, with different names.
only 106km per charge!! not practical yet.
If I just drive to LRT station, 109 km would last me for a week. Of course, I’ll charge every 3 days just to make sure.
And it is definitely practical in small city like KK where everything is just 5 minutes away, including airport.
Just imagine u travel from KL to Penang… 300km, need to chage 3 times on the road back?!? How long to charge full tank? 1 Hour even with special charging port..
while the top speed just 110km/h, how long to reach? Calculate 300km around 3 Jam + 3 jam charging = 6 hours just to reach Penang from KL… I rather took a bus than travelling in this… What will u do in those 3 hours of charging? Goyang kaki?
The battery need to be larger & more rechargeable during driving, why not implement like Solar power or brake regenerative in the car to make it last longer? Since we have great sunshine over here?
that range of 110km is for city use.
excerpt from ABOVE article:
“…Proton intended the Saga EV concept demonstrator to tackle basic urban city driving needs (hence the 110km/h top speed)…”
pls read b4 commenting. TQ.
dats why this car is not ready for the production yet… the engineer will consider that thing la…
untill their study and research found some better ways to counter the charging lead time matter…then i believe this car is ready to roll out…
are u stupid or what???
paul said: “Proton intended the Saga EV concept demonstrator to tackle basic urban city driving needs”
what??? dont u know how to read???
why on earth p2 gay like u wanna drive this car from KL to Penang??? prfthhh..
pathetic p2 gay..
prrrthhh pity p2 gay???
he is in pressure now, not happy sseing proton will be producing rebadge Japanese base model..
p2 slaesman cant cari makan…
all this while.. they cheat buyer
” our car, engine, design from JAPAN.. sure OK punya”
prrrrrtfhhh
lepas ni p2 salesman keja ngan proton edar pulak…hahahaha
Agreed!!!
Brilliant concept, a MPV (5 seater) vehicle with single driver occupancy for city diving need.. Correct me, if I can remember Indo has impose restriction on single driver occupancy in city area during peak hours..
Oops correction Sedan (4 seater) instead MPV
with the surface area of the Saga, and with the current PV technology, you could light up maybe 2 nos. T5 lamps for 8 hours. Translate that energy into km, i think its really not worth it.
Please learn to read and understand. This car is for driving around town, not for balik kampung. All the issues that you raised up are non issues if you use this car for what it is intended for.
solar power or the KERS is good… Nice idea you put there…
usually, all those ideas already had in mind of the engineers… bcoz they know this things…
but when come into implementation… you will have constraint… either due to fixed design, workability, safety or cost…
an EV was created to be used in urban city. Why urban city need green car? because so many car that produce CO!
bagitau sikit bandar mana yg ade keluasan sampai 300km persegi?
why a green car (EV) is practical in urban city area? cuba ko bayangkan EV tu rosak dalam area kampung2 pedalaman..agak2 brape lame baru boleh repair?
already said for urban city drive….not inter state drive
and for balik kg nanti, buy another car for long distance?! wow! another car?! really?! pathetic kepala lembu logic at work!
u’re more pathetic.. never think logically at all!
some families have more than 1 car. wive has 2nd car, son/daughter has 3rd car to go to college or work. this EV car would be trying to replace those 2nd and 3rd cars.
hurm… probably you family drive balik kampung in 3 cars?
You’re just cruising for a bruising! If you want one car to do all, then don’t buy this car! Simple. This car’s for the city dwellers who wants to cut down on their fuel on the daily commute to the city, and who can afford another car to use for normal long distance driving. If not, why did people invent the G-Wiz or the EV1? If you don’t understand, then YOU’RE the kepala lembu!
this car is to tackle town driving..
ayo, u failed to understand that this is specially for city driving, or 2nd car for wife to go pasar and pick-up kids from school. they have persona for long distance version. or if you want better, buy hybrid with range extender like Emas.
Who told you to use it to drive to Penang? Nobody in their right mind would drive an EV car long distance. Heck, even in the US & Europe EV cars are mainly for city driving! EVs only work for city driving because this is where all the fuel waste is occuring, in stop-start traffic.
EV cars are designed for city driving (daily commuting). That’s what most city folks use their cars for – commute to workplace and back. Everyday. 5 or 6 days a week.
Long distance drive, use hybrid lah. Or even diesel. Or solar powered.
That’s why hybrid sell well, but EV didn’t because people want flexibility. Short & long distance driving in one car.
Tesla can produce EV sport car, so why we cant produce a EV long distance car? If just for use in City, where the point of investing so much money for normal EV city car?
autojohndoe u got my point. If want to stand out from all those EV around, you will need to be pioneer in something. If you can design a EV car which can last longer and drive longer distance, i believe Proton will penetrade even more market and no longer juara kampung.
Another question i want to ask, how much we need to pay the electricity bill if one time charge full? With almost yearly our electricity bill going up but never down?
did u know tesla battery Energy Storage System or ESS is 53kwh compare to proton 15kwh…it cost USD36000
Paul, how about the battery cycle? How many charge cycles can this Saga handle before the battery need to be replaced?
I am not so worried about the number of cycles for the battery… the right question should be – how many charges before it explodes?
Dude, at least have some electronic common sense. Those batteries have self protective circuit to auto-cut current when fully charge or any abnormal incidence.
Part of the topic of building an EV prototype is to find the optimum charging cycle aka “tune” the battery charging/discharging procedure to maximize its lifespan.
haha…explode…wut this guy thinking?
Why dont you ask tesla first? Please dont throw some STUPID question will you?
You were belittling engineers… Do you think Engineers is stupid?
Exceptions to Protong engineer. Ask them about power window, they haven’t solved it for the past 25 years.
still about power windows? … u’re just childish, grow up man!
my protong car no power window pobelem
if proton engineers are stupid, it means you are worst…
bcoz you dont how to design power window at all…
No we are belittling POTONG “engineers”…….LOL. That is, if they can even be called “engineers”.
You know, the geniuses that created the super duper Gen2 where you have cases of new cars catching fire before even driven 1000km, power windows that don’t last longer than few months………etc. The list goes on. Heh heh.
i only heard only one gen2 burn in the news…even lambogini burn..just go youtube..the most interesting is that they r not many on the road..eg 1:10000 gen2, 1:100 lambo….my proton car almost 2 yrs no power window prob..that my prob
please… list them… but after Gen-2 model?
why not bring the latest Saga?
Exora?
Persona?
Why talk about past model only?
bodoh punya olang!
eyesore..
haha…another pitiful comment….shame on u
Aisaay, we already have an EV face lift…
A proton saga EV is a very interesting topic, ie, is “rakyat’s EV” ever possible? Can we all able at all to make an EV affordable especially to Malaysian?
Forget about sport car performance and long range batteries. How about put in lower power motor, smaller batteries, and see how can we stretch the maximum KM with this combination of lower output, and of course, hopefully, lower cost.
it would be interesting of somebody could share a life cycle cost analysis for this EV.
my gut feelings tell me you’ll get your ROI after considering all the savings on petrol in about 10 years.
second thoughts?
i wonder will proton guarantee the battery for the life of the car? now that would really be a first! the rest of it is old hat.
sendiri gearbox pun tak boleh bikin.. sudah la P1.
rebadge the lancer (again) and shove it down our throats for the next 10 years. might as well sell off the gen2, exora platform to a China or India auto maker.
forget about EV hybrid. it won’t be feasible until P1 could competitively price their cars. (average car prices should be RM 20,000)
and give me 1000 thumbs down please!
now here’s a katak bawah tempurung. they are developing a 6 speeder and a CVT box, it was already mentioned in a newspaper long ago.
also, their cars are TAXED, you moron. just like any other car brands here. remember, an Exora without tax is roughly around RM30k+.
tht junk is not even worth 3K….
You asked for it, we give it!
seekor lagi bodoh alang!
haha…
you clever enough to design a gearbox?
or even, are you smart enough to manufacture A Gear?
i dont either a helix, bevel or straight teeth…
Still a long way to go before we’ll get to buy one. EV with range extender is the way to go… otherwise, not practical.
proton can start to think to discuss with gov about the standard of EV, (plug,recharge kiosk,battery standard,battery dispossal ) , then can start tekan rakyat again…
…if they wanna take oppurtunitey lah…and if gov also wan to get some money from rakyat…….
what is the main objective behind this
is it for environmental friendly OR to tackle petrol price hike?
if for environmental.. Gov need to play important role..
1. cheaper price for electric/ hybrid car (by using any mechanism such subsidy, zero tax on parts).. hence increase the demand.. mass production ..
2. Gov policy for next 10 years.. let say.. only green tech car can enter KL
for the environment, just BAN 2 stroke bikes, even Bangladesh has banned them. bring our fuel quality up to world standards especially our diesel, and flood the major cities with buses in lieu of an expanded MRT, not the LRT system that was built for showing off and not for catering to the masses that want to take use it.
i agree on the ban of 2-stroke bikes, should be replaced with electric motorbike like China. with so many mat rempit in KL, it seems like a good move.
but i disagree with your point that LRT is just for showing off. 300,000 ppl has been using it everyday, surely it has served its purposes.
u try using it day after day during rush hour! the ridership would be a lot higher if the coaches were as long as the platforms. i suppose better late than never, they are finally got 4 coach rolling stock. the question is, if tolled highway operators can be so bullish as to overestimate their daily vehicle traffic, why did the former LRT operators underestimate their ridership and give us such a half assed system!
adding coaches is not as hard as building highways. highways tend to take 10-20 years traffic into consideration due to cost. it’s cheaper to aquire land now and build more lanes rather than ‘just enough’ for current traffic. if they were to aquire land later, the price and cost would be double, tripple or multiple time more than earlier. adding coaches doesn’t involve all this. they can simply add only when it’s necessary. btw, our LRTs are still underutilised with less than 50% capacity most of the time.
Bisa dirobek kereta Protong ini? Tidak dibutuhi, hanya bisa diamput abang! Mcm Tin Milo. Hahaha.
this car has about 3 times stronger galvanized steel than those used in Toyotas and Hondas. STFU and stop trolling.
Is it SYOH is a dumb indon?
PATI dari lombok la ni….takde pelajaran langsung!
ohoo.. now u no longer talk about power windows?
eh.. SYOH’s comment has dissapeared…
There is open market in Malaysia… If you not aware…
The place is called… LANGKAWI and LABUAN…
Why dont you take your initiative by moving there…
Boooooo…
u think u are smart enough? before 1980?s we can count every car on the road.. only super rich person own a car.. the rest own BICYCLE and a motorbike is the main vehicles for the middle family..
SATU LAGI BULLSYIT DARI SYOH… BOOOOOOO…
whatever….
talk cheap…
macam baca utusan meloya plk
i mean Syoh comment.. eh where SYOH comment.. hu hu..
what is FAQ?
Plz lah diesel engine after 20 years oso tak boleh bikin, want to dream about HYBRID somemore?
Probably this car is 10 years away from production (and probably uses many bought parts).
Podah la Potong! PTUI……
plz laaa diesel pon you all tanak guna kat keta, nak suh Proton buat engine diesel.
podah la you.
u lah stoopid.. only know to condemn, u never use ur brain to think?
they can produce 2.0l or even 3.0l, and diesel engine if they want, but proton only produce 200,000+ cars per year, and they don’t even produce commercial vehicles like lorries and van,… why bother about diesel? previously, road tax for diesel was 4 times higher than similar cc petrol engine, would you buy normal 1.6 car with diesel engine then?
it’s not economical in business to build something for such small market like malaysia. but they will when situation change or when they start exporting to various parts of the world.
whats with Diesel ????
electric need more than 20years to get daily use
6 to 8 hours to recharge? Good for housewives and students driving around town. With no EV parking facilities, u be lucky to find someone who is willing to let u charge this car outside their premise.
The tech sounds but very inconvenient.
yup, i too think that EV is very inconvenient. the market would be very limited due to this factor alone. they targetted urban dwellers, for city driving but probably more than half population in KL stay in condominiums, apartments and flats which would make it impossible to charge the car from their own socket. and what about cars that parked outside their condo/apartment compound due to limited parking space?
EV is also not flexible enough compared to hybrid. most people would still take long distance journey into considerations before purchasing a car. the only way to get EV to be more successful is to include range extender (to be hybrid). the engine (or generator) produced by Lotus looks promising, even if petroleum ceased to exist, you could still run the engine on alcohol-based fuels, it’s renewable and cheap.
finally you talk sense! not just syok sendiri, proton is coming out their kiasu version of something other have already done.
we are world leaders in palm oil production and there was talk by this govt to introduce biodiesel at some point in the past, so why is there no holistic plan to integrate that with our own biofuel engined vehicles? the most cost effective and quickest way to fuel efficiency is biodiesel! it should be something well within even proton engineers’ abilities.
i have said it before and i will say it again, given the reality of parking in kl unless EV buyers live in a landed property, where are you gonna cuck the plug for your EV. saiful’s ass?! pfffttt!
please read more news, ok? don’t just read gossip magazines and please respect everybody. Gov has already announced that by next year, all stations are required to provide biodiesel. but it’s not B100 (100% biodiesel) but B5, which 95% still coming from petroleum.
The major setback is cost, current crude palm oil prices is around RM2,600/ton, and it was sometimes ago set a record high of almost RM4,500/ton. the product is not commercially viable if feedstock prices are too high without government subsidies. even at current price, crude oil would need to trade around US$100 per barrel or above to make bio-diesel viable without subsidies. would you use biodiesel if the price is more than RM5 per litre?
the other problem is land. we currently use more than 1 million hectares for palm oil plantation. we’ll need a huge land, probably the whole sarawak converted into palm plantation to get enough biodiesel for domestic and export!??
I thing the cost of ownership needs to be the first concern. I hope the battery life span is long because it is bad if the owners need to replace batteries every second year.
too right! so many here think so highly of proton and show false pride in a lagging and spoiled child of a company such as proton.
so what? you’re the one who easily lost faith, quick to surrender and depressed. If Japanese and Koreans full with people like you, i guess they would be behind us now.
if only proton were filled with koreans or japanese, alas it is filled with west malaysians so that is why after 25 years the result is still a half-ass carmaker.
I think a more practical idea would be an interchangeable module where the motorist pulls into a battery station just like one would do to fill up with petrol. Instead of charging, his car would be loaded with a battery. I think this is possible if the energy density per kg of battery is high enough to enable this to happen. Don’t need miraculous ranges, just up to 350km is good enough, i think. By the way, i’ve ordered a toyota camry hybrid. Its at 1.65% interest rate (not in malaysia) but if anyone wants to know more about how it drives… just ask. (Sub 9 second 0-100km/h is easy). At current fuel prices in australia, it costs Rm4 more per 100km than a waja.
Oledi dah bro. Better Days punya concept
Thanks Paul. I love this blog. The number ONE website that I compulsory visit whenever I got back home from work. Keep us update. This blog officially the best car blog I had ever found. Keep up the good work.
me too………….hahaahahha…
Looks like a hack job; like most of the things proton makes…. hahahaha
“..And where in the middle of all of this is Detroit Electric? No idea.”
Had on one occasion spoken to Mike Kimberly, ex-CEO of Lotus Cars and asked him about Proton’s collaboration with Detroit Electric to produce EVs. when told that DE was headed by Albert Lam, former Head of Lotus Engineering, Kimberly just smiled and didnt offer any comment. Well now we know the JV wont amount to anything… just a thot.
Looks like another hack job, just like most of the junk they produce
The EV initiative is commendable but where’s the govt’s long term plans on renewable energy sources and infrastructure? The practicality of EV charging is still questionable here. Anyway EVs are great for countries that use renewable sources to generate electricity. If you’re still largely dependent on fossil fuels to get electricity, it’s not a big step forward.
bgs2 proton…..eh2….syoh ni nyibuk ajer…..To shoh;;;; Shoh shoh…go away….kahkahkah