Reader Maru sent in a batch of amazing photos of the Proton Waja CPS and the Proton GEN2 CPS, which were spotted at a resort in Port Dickson last week. Continue reading this post after the jump for the clearest shots of the car so far, including photos of the Waja CPS’s interior, which has some minor changes.
[ UPDATE: Latest news, showroom photos of the new Proton Waja CPS 1.6. ]
[ UPDATE: The facelifted Proton GEN2 with a new range of Campro IAFM and Campro CPS engines has been launched in Malaysia! Click for more details. ]
Proton GEN2 CPS Spyshots
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We’ve all seen the new facelifted GEN2 CPS before as it was displayed to the public in Thailand recently. You’ve got the enlarge grille, new bumper and smoked headlamps at the front.
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And a rear that doesn’t look very different from the existing Proton GEN2, except for the new CPS 1.6 logo on the left of the boot lid.
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The interior is also the new and improved Persona-based interior that we’ve seen on the Thai market facelifted GEN2.
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Another look at the interior.
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Seats with integrated headrests.
Proton Waja CPS Spyshots
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This is the Proton Waja CPS, which looks pretty much like the latest facelift of the Proton Waja launched together with the Savvy facelift.
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The rear also looks the same, except for the CPS 1.6 badging and the twin tailpipe exhaust.
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Alloy wheels and rear discs.
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This is where it starts getting interesting – a glimpse into the Waja CPS interior. There is a new shifter with nice aluminium trim and an aluminium base. The shift is now a gated shift – gives it a more premium feel?
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The Waja CPS interior shot from the other side of the car – gated shifter uses a P-R-N-D-3-2-L pattern. There’s also something that looks like a 2-DIN DVD/navigation system – I think it’s already available on some Proton cars.
We don’t really know when the Proton Waja CPS and the Proton GEN2 CPS facelift will be launched, and the final product might be totally different from what we see here, but it is an interesting indication.
Related Posts:
Facelifted Proton GEN2 with CPS launched in Thailand
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Just wait to buy 1 !!
its about time…
Waja is good..but Gen2..sigh!!!
Oh no… Seems that the Waja dont have Tiptronic like someone assume it… It just like the shift gate system of Toyota and merc! I think the most is the Gearbox is from Mitsu 4-speed auto wif INVECS… Haiz, if the WAJA have tiptronic it will have more sales…
I think the 2 din is from the chansellor izzit? Looks familiar… But still, the steering of the WAJA still feel a bit cheapo…
dont like the fr grille of the waja huhuu. not seem very nice to me.
Oh My God, despite all the complaints, the Gen2’s super ugly steering wheel and the only-genius-know-how-to-use stereo console are still there…plus the manual gearshift knob now looks idiot, like a long stick with round ball tip.
For the Waja…mostly ok, just me personally still cannot accept the fake looking “continental” grill and the “alien crop circle” rear lights. Also, I personally still think that Waja is already too old and should be discontinued. I think for a sedan model, P1 should instead put this CPS into Persona, label it as R3…1 fewer model line means lower cost, why waste $$ keeping the waja line open??
Nice. Wonder when’s it’s gonna launch over here.
but ball type of a gear knob is the best feel, if busy change of activity does,
, other fancy shape for manual gear knob sometime have a pointed at ceratin area of stress on our palm, if by nature your hand is a fine like ladies hand,
ball type trying to maximised it surface of the knob contact, hence no particular or pointed stress that bit painful if it continously,
(my experience)
Cool.
Waja body is too old to look good…..in fact people is getting bored with the exterior & the super ugly “Continental” look……I think Proton should have come out with a refresh image ( headlight & real lamp cluster) while still using the same platform, just like what Honda accord does……
interior with gated shift is interesting, this will only make the Waja interesting for little time perhaps
Concentrate more on replacing the perdana. Its 13 years old now…
exterior (minor) changes aside, I am very keen to know what the engines are capable of……
i like the seats of the Gen2….. looks nice!!
Cool… this means more power and more torque. Can anyone inform whether Persona CAMPRO be modified to CPS
I’m waiting to own one. Waja CPS for sure. Too bad all I want is stick shifter, so no gated shift.
Proton should have changed the exterior a bit to freshen up the Waja. Even the rims are recycled from the enhanced type in 2004 I think. New bumpers, grille, rims, head & tail lights can do wonders. Even with a more powerful engine but with the same exterior people would still look at it as plain old Waja. I used to own the Waja 1.8, and was looking forward to another Waja with a more powerful engine but this is just dissapointing.
For the interior of both, Proton should look at the new Hyundai Accent & Elantra. The interiors of both cars are superb for their class. The Koreans have really improved their interior design. Proton must have a better interior for the upcoming MPV & Perdana or they will left out cold by the Koreans (not to mention the Japanese).
oit maru!!! i shud also being credited for the pictures…. as all u can see.. i am the one on the gen2 window reflection…. and also i am the on on the 2nd pic
to mystvearn
Concentrate more on replacing the perdana. Its 13 years old now…
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can u wait another 10 years? because proton just launched their new saga after 23 years, 13 years still consider very new for proton..lol
If a buy the Gen2 i will change the rear lights to a kedai abang’s one and paint the chrome grill same with the body colour. If i buy the Waja i will change the steering and the rims…
Bebelon said,
January 28, 2008 @ 12:23 am
to mystvearn
Concentrate more on replacing the perdana. Its 13 years old now…
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can u wait another 10 years? because proton just launched their new saga after 23 years, 13 years still consider very new for proton..lol
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syed zainal only have two hands ma…u wait la…
to MisterBenjo
syed zainal only have two hands ma…u wait la…
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actually syed zainal can use only one of his two hands to sign and approve the R&D, but unfortunately he has no power in his hands!!! lol
Bebelon said,
January 28, 2008 @ 12:33 am
to MisterBenjo
syed zainal only have two hands ma…u wait la…
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actually syed zainal can use only one of his two hands to sign and approve the R&D, but unfortunately he has no power in his hands!!! lol
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He’s in the job just about 2 years only, give credit to him for persona and saga… i think after the success he will be more influential in proton.
relax bro… as paul said this is not the final product yet. even the new SAGA has a little difference compared to the spyshots taken few weeks before the launch. these 2 cars still in RnD yet…
it is good to get exited but dont straightly blame as the final prodct still not officially launch yet..
Proton still hasn’t realize that Gen2’s stereo console sucks. They should have changed it for Persona but they didn’t. Now they’re set to ruin Gen2 CPS interior.
Change it please. Let the CPS have a sleeker interior.
Wah the Waja CPS still got screen player ar? If reverse can see behind through the screen or not? Just like the Taiwanese Proton Savvy which include 2DIN DVD player with reverse camera
the red button and others are getting smaller yeah! what is the different gated and tiptronic shifting?
BW said,
January 28, 2008 @ 1:09 am
Wah the Waja CPS still got screen player ar? If reverse can see behind through the screen or not? Just like the Taiwanese Proton Savvy which include 2DIN DVD player with reverse camera
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Be prepare of LCD thief ler…
I thought the Waja CPS interior has totally changed. But i still see the same dashboard design, internal door panels, and aircon vents ????? They only change the shifter? Can Si-fu comment on this?
not much surprise~~
Wah! U guys very alert wan ah!!!
At least it proves that Malaysians are still excited about Proton Cars. Hehehehehehehehe. As I have posted in the previous posts, I have said that the interior is NOT TOTALLY NEW! The basic layout of the dash is still the same, the only difference is the center console as we can see above. This is to give the up-market feel to the car as Paul said. I have posted before the wat is shiftronic/steptronic and the difference between gated shift.
This is from my previous (chanel asked) post on shiftronic n gated shift:
“The profile of the dash is still the same, how ever the center console layout has been changed. The interior has been given an exquisite touch to give an expensive look. The leather seats comes with better texture, softer and more comfortable. The mirrors are still the same though.
The shiftronic or steptronic is not same as changing gear from L to 2 to 3 and to D. Its different, the + and – minus sign is actually a totally different system, like the Savvy AMT has. Savvy AMT actually uses a manual gear box with an advance actuator and hydraulic system controlled by a special computer (TCU), wat it does is actually each time u push to + or -, rather then u pressing the clutch and moving the gear lever, the system does it for u in a split second. When u put it to D or R, the TCU tells the system to change gears with a preset engine speed interval. Its abit too lengthy too explain here but i hope u get the basic idea of it.
The AT version doesn’t have shiftronic or steptronic, however theWaja CPS AT has gated gear shift. The gated gear shift is like normal AT gear, its just that u dont need to push a button to change gear. Each gear in the gated gear shift has a grove to give a gate effect to hold or to lock the gear in place. The gear knob for the gated gear shift looks good too in the Waja CPS.”
This another post (atkop asked) that i posted previously on CPS 1.6:
“Compared to other VVT engines like from Toyota and CVTC engines from Nissan, The Campro 1.6 CPS fairs as follows:-
Campro 1.6 CPS : 127hp and 150Nm
Toyota 1.8 VVTI : 126hp and 165Nm
Nissan 1.6 CVTC : 109hp and 153Nm
Nissan 1.8 CVTC : 126hp and 174Nm
As we can see the Campro 1.6 CPS+VIM is the most powerful engine among all the engine above however the Campro 1.6 CPS loses out to the legendary 1.6 VTEC engine (B16A) of Honda. The spec of Honda’s 1.6 VTEC (B16A) engine is :-
Honda 1.6 VTEC : 170hp and 157Nm
In this case we can see that the Campro CPS 1.6 loses out in terms of horsepower to the B16A but almost equals in terms or torque. However as you said the torqued is reached very late for the VTEC (max torque arnd 7300rpm) whereas the CPS reaches it quite early (arnd 4500rpm).
If ever a the Gen-2 or Waja CPS drags with the LEGENDARY VTEC B16A, i can say the CPS can loose flat out, maybe a car distance or more! The reason is because:-
1) The max max hp and max torque for the VTEC is at high rpm, so there is always constant power and torque increase when the throttle is floored. The CPS however, loses its torque after 4500rpm because it starts decreasing after that point however the CPS still gains power until 6500rpm but at that point the torque has decreased alot.
2) The reason for VTEC to be superior is because, first VTEC’s engine variable valve system is not only in the intake port, but also the exhaust port. Whereas the CPS has it only in the intake port. Next, the VTEC uses a CAM PHASOR. This system retards or advances the valve opening of the ports based on certain parameters set in ECU. The CPS doesn’t use a Cam Phasor. There are many other aspects that make the VTEC more superior, such as camshaft lobe profile, valve openings and so on.
3) By now u might ask, why Proton didn’t do CPS like VTEC. The reason is mainly and simply COST! The same reason the other manufacturer’s (Toyota and Nissan) engines are not as powerful as the VTEC eventhough they 1.8L. As u know a half cut VTEC itself can cost u bomb, just imagine developing and producing a new engine similar to that!”
Another post that i posted previously regarding CPS vs VTEC:
“My claim as the Campro 1.6 CPS as the most powerfull engine is in TERMS OF HORSEPOWER. In terms of torque, we can say that its almost same with the Nissan 1.6 CVTC engine (diff 3 Nm) and almost same with the VTEC B16A (diff 7Nm). For the difference with the 1.8L engines from both Toyota and Nissan is quite big just simply because of the capacity of the engine. So in terms of torque the CPS loses out to the 1.8L’s.
Regarding CPS vs VTEC:
Once my fren went on a road test with the Gen-2 CPS. In the highway, he said he tried to follow a Civic VTEC 1.6 (B16A). And based on him he said, he managed to match the VETC. He was describing the look on the CIVIC driver’s face as he was only driving a Gen-2. Hahahahahahahahah! (the guy doesn’t know it was a Gen-2 CPS as it was camoufludged). So doesn’t mean on paper the CPS loose, still tak leh main with VTEC B16A. However this fren of mine is a good driver, and all i can say is; if u understand ur car well and have proper driving skils, u can do wonders with ur car!”
Form this i would like to conclude that: WAIT UNTIL IT IS LAUCHED THEN JUDGE IT!!!. Eventhough the interior of the Waja and Gen-2 looks the same, but it had a different ‘feel’ when I sat in it especially the Waja. That was my first impression when i sat in. When driving it, its totally a new ‘world’. I can’t describe it by words. Just wait until it is lauched.
Cheers!
I see more people becoming paparazzi…
chasing new (facelift car) then post it in forum.. that`s good…
the design for the CPS logo is ugly, but i’m waiting for it to be fitted into a satria neo…that will be something
wa lau eh..besides the engines..only minor changes. So..is it means, a totaly new waja replacment will be on the way?..
the gated tranny on waja has been used by merc for years!!! its dated already. Looks classy though..
the gated hear shift of the Waja looks neat but Waja as it is now… looks horribly Ah Beng. Wy not Proton just give Waja a brand new set of sheet metal and interior…??? keep the underpining, jusz give a new look inside out to freshen up the car. its already 7 years, going 8.
Thanks for the explanation si-fu and for our kind papparazi…kudos to both of you for bringing exciting news about local automotive. Hope this CPS will be on time for my upgrading wira 1.3 to 1.6 class engine.
Interesting…I mean Sifu’s infor. Thanks.
Interior of Waja seems nice with upgraded version. If they would have changed the front grille or the exterior look it will certainly enhanced the buzz around. Now the price…since Proton is offering reasonably pricing I wouldnt be surprised if it maintained the pricing at RM60K for the Waja CPS.
waja front grille like uncle toy!!! not very pretty!!
Interesting!!
Neo CPS? Persona CPS?
To Si-Fu,
My apologies for not replying to comments you’ve made on the previous post since i was far far and away.
i reckoned that comments you’ve made (on the previous post) is quite technically fair and unbiased though i would assumed that you would have defended the cps a bit more:-) when comparing to the b16a engine. Malaysia boleh.. right?
again i thank you for that. now we know bits ab the cps.
anoyhow,
can you tell (or give us a sneek peeks) on the project planning for the future (or current?) cps engine development? Questions below..
Q1 will there be a dual vvti-like in the cps i.e varying the timing at exhaust port as well? although it is not completely, entirely true, the evolution of of varying the timing is started with varying the intake and later to the exhaust port. this might be true when you said that the cost is a major factor but, in economics term, cost is a very very .. and very subjective issue. if you can break even the cost (no matter what is the amount) by selling xxx amount of goods in x amount of time (short time), and the analyst and the market said that you can and sell much much more after that.. then cost is ..what??
i would not go on the notion that ” if anybody can do it why not we” thing.. it is just not so good analogy.
Q2 the ultimate in vv technology is, i would guess that varying all valve port at all driving condition (all range) automatically, return for max power and most economical condition, which is what the latest 3rd gen honda vtec (i-vtec?) is suppose to do..right? is that the same direction or fate for the cps? how long would you reckoned it would be materialized? at what phase is the engine development at the moment?
Q3 line up for the engine capacity for cps. when you’ve got the top head, the cps, the ecu done in a right way, then i would reckoned , in my totally uneducated opinion that the block and its associated parts can be “easily” “configure-able” to accommodate bigger displacement. (though somebody told me that the campro engine at the moment is designed to handle up to 2000cc of displacement? which i presumed, make sense to be installed inside the new mpv and the perdana replacement things?
Q4 how many proton personnel are working in the powertrain department? who many out of it in the engine development itself? or is it in separate entity? where does the lotus engineering fits into the above? what are their contribution? who is in charge? the mat salleh or the local?
Q5 say waiting time doesnt matter…. can we purchase.. from proton edar..say satria neo with cps engine inside? how much will that cost..hmm i wonder…
millions of thanks..!!
atkop.
Hi all,
Just to share with u guys that I went to Proton’s showroom in Mutiara Damansara yesterday to have a look at the new Saga. Guest what???…. the salesmen said that the new CPS for Waja will be launched next month. We just have to wait n see whether it is true or not.
to proton, please install CPS into Persona too.
aiman tak kesah if they increase price between 2k – 4k plus increasing interior item.
cepat aku nak beli persona cps.
sebab aku kedekut duit nak isi minyak.
Si-Fu, thanks for the explanation. But, i think the “C” “P” “S” badging on the rear of the car looks a bit ugly. Just my 2 cents. Hope this is not the final product.
Wow, thanks man…!!!!
I thought they’ve changed the entire dashboard for the Waja, just like they did it for the Saga LMST.
The CPS wording looks like PS2 wording to me.
whooaa!!felt like being in a technical presentation..nice info sifu..keep it coming..i’ve always think campro is a good engine..atkop, good questions asked there..whats wrong with the cps emblem??i think its fine just the way it is..keep it nice and simple..
“think the 2 din is from the chansellor izzit? Looks familiar… But still, the steering of the WAJA still feel a bit cheapo…”
Dude, Waja steering in one of the best…
good and very well explained sifu.
your technical analyst worth to read!.
and as i wonder why standard 1.6 neo can easily reach 190kmh!.
now that’s pproven campro engine is not a poor engine. But it underdog unplished engine.
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BanyakMasukBengkel said,
January 28, 2008 @ 11:30 am
cepat aku nak beli persona cps.
sebab aku kedekut duit nak isi minyak.
++++
As far as I known.. CPS is not about JIMAT MINYAK, but more to POWER.. so youre misunderstand about that. the JIMAT MINYAK one is IAFM like in current saga.
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Anyway.. i look the waja cps now, had more and spacious internal.. but.. the external look is still ugly and outdated.. Waja need MAJOR facelift.. not MINOR facelift. change the front bumper, rearrange the headlight position what ever.. let it look better than current.. and the big NO NO for that termometer rearlight. Same as Gen2 CPS, need new rearlight.. not that boring one also.. and change the rear bumper too as the front side changed.
IMO, hidden reason proton doing this is to keep and help a bit previous version of g2 and waja to make their price down too much. (used car). or at leas.. an option to the current waja & gen2 owner to do something on their car.. like, change their bumper to the new one :D.
BTW, driving waja is more stable and comfort rather than old vios.. wish that comfort still exist in the new waja CPS. :)
look at the image of the guy on the Gen-2’s mirror in the 3rd picture above.. i understand why his face was blurred.. but why his watch also?.. his watch is so special eh?.. haha..
350d, have u seen the Momo steering fitted in the passo? Even mitsu lancer steering fell more prestige… U can see the fake carbon fiber around the steering, fell a bit cheapo…
For G2…change the front seat larr, replace with neo seat ok what. And a little more change for exterior since it launch in thailand first (extras for malaysian for late intros) new rear bumper and taillamp, exhaust on both side maybe. Did it come with gated auto shift too?
As for waja…..a whole new waja please, hopefully RWD
And where is Putra replacement…..we hunger for a coupe, RWD too
Perdana? Just rebadge an Audi, just kiddin….never mind
OR maybe the gated shift shud come together with PADDLE SHIFTER….come on proton, how hard can it be
dude..ware we expection too much from proton? :)
Its not expectation larr….maybe just an extra checklist for near future. Hope proton guys can consider. I know they can do it.
i like the black and chrome proton logo, would it be used in gen.2 cps and waja cps as well?
Honestly i really like persona’s/ gen.2 cps’s interior design, especially the manual gear knob design and silver trapezoid shape base (very sporty!), i noticed that the fabric used in the persona is very different with gen.2 cps, the latter one are in darker tone and it looks more premium~
cheers~
from wat i read in the tech area..it seems its gonna have a very good top speed with that amount of horsies..bt torque is lacking..its gona take time to reach that top speed…unless ofcourse thy r using a diff gearbox with different ratioes..bt so far everyone is talking abt the engine…bt the gearboz is vital..those old mitsu autos are dated already
I dont think this is a final product becuase proton said their logo on future models will be always chrome and black colour.
the waja pretty much looks like a VW jetta, why is that? hmmmmm
to sifu, CPS VS VTEC
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CPS, just like Toyota’s VVTI and Nissan’s CVTC works differently than Honda’s venerable VTEC.
VTEC varies the vavle lift, the other three continuosly varies the cam timing.
Honda also has the same tech, its called the I-VTEC found in the regular Civic and Accord ( R spec/ Type R babies have both cam phasing and variable valve lift, just like Toyota’s VVTL-i)
please compare an apple with an apple.
Still not to late to put GATED MANUAL SHIFTER, alaa fancy stuff like Ferrari, its not a hightech, just a simple steel plate. canlaa
Interesting development but I seriously think that Waja needs a full model change. Frankly, what else is appealing in Waja? Based on the images above, the interior, ok. The engine, yes. The exterior, I still think it looks the same.
Good luck Proton.
Why not abolish the Gen2… and put all these stuff in the Persona instead?
what is the price will be ?? more cheeper or expensive ??
i wan that waja…
already planning to upgrade my waja.
Sigh, taught proton going the right way.. wth is this… Hopeless waja grills & rear lights. Boring rear lights on gen2, super tiny audio buttons on steering wheels. YYYYY cant they understand that these design are crap ????
hope this not the final product…gen2 is ok..wutever anyone said about the tail light i still like it…its subjective rite…plus gen2 is sports look car suitable to fulfill young age heart…hope the CPS will make gen2 the fastest car on its segment…hope the quality issues will be eliminated…waja…hmmm i dunno wut to say..its rather disappointed for me if the exterior is still the same…the interior should be major change… plus new tech like seq gear will make it difference then its competitor..hope 1.8 variance also will be introduce…so it can compete with camry, altis, civic , sentra…etc….but if all of u think again p1 mayb just want to introduce cps only for this facelift so that why no major change to its look…cost constraint mayb…
hi guys..
2 sifu….
u info about cps very attract me…
i have some questionla…
thats true proton design the upcoming mpv will refer 2 toyota wish form?…
another question
the waja replacement will based from satria neo platform?…
thanks sifu if u reply…
my opinon….
4 gen2 cps,i suggest,proton rename it as persona aeroback…
like they made at wira aeroback…
waja cps look ok but i not like the front grille..
and rear headlamps too,i prefer previous model…
but the model is not final product…must wail till it launch..
anyway,another effort from proton to produce hi tech engine..
congrate proton!
sorry off topic
if proton want release the saga RED…
i suggest they name it saga Knight…
kenangan lalu mengimbau kembali..
huhu..
Why isn’t Proton using Waja’s excellent steering all around their product range? the thing is if you want Waja to be the ‘premium’ get it another better steering wheel, if steering wheel is the only thing you can think of segregating Waja and the rest…. dun put that stupid badminton racket handle steering wheel of Gen2 out anymore pls….
Gen2 ~ 16″ rim is more sporty, spoiler on top is nicer, side signal light bigger is better, rear viper should change
Waja ~ integrated signal light with side mirror is more class
Most important ~ price remain the same or lower
i like the new waja interior..look classier than my gold waja..all leather..
but i like to wait for the completely new waja with bigger engine..i heard the rumour..
Hi eveybody!
Thanks for appreaciating my post.
To atkop:
You are certainly a person with many questions!!! Hahahahahaha, which is good actually. However, i can’t answer all your question so i will try to summarize and answer whichever is possible. I dont think there will be any uprgrade to the CPS anytime soon or in the future as Proton has other ‘plans’ (which i can’t reveal) for the future. This will not definitely be a Campro 2.0L. Just wait until it comes ot yea. Powertrain is a department in Proton’s RnD. It has about 40 engineers and 20 technicians. Lotus helps the deparment mostly in terms of technical help and advise. Mostly the design and new product development is done together. So both Proton and Lotus are equally involved together. The person in charge is surely a Malaysian.
To shooter and everybody:
Please dont post as though U HAVE SEEN THE CPS ENGINE. If you are unsure of something, just don’t post or ASK. It simply shows that you lack knowledge. Do you know how CPS works? Have you seen a CPS engine camshaft? Dont simply provide a statement which is untrue.
CPS DOESN’T vary its valve timing. Please bear this in mind. Toyota’s VVT/VVT-I and Nissan’s CVTC does this. Wat CPS is actually, it has 3 lobes per intake valve. 1 low rpm lobe and 2 high rpm lobe. This is SIMILAR to the VTEC system but not EXACTLY THE SAME! What the VVT/VVT-I and CVTC engine does is ONLY vary the valve timing; ie advancing or retarding the valve opening. It DOESN”T HAVE the high and low rpm lobes LIKE THE CPS AND VTEC has. Hope u get this fact clear. I have explained the difference between CPS and VTEC above. PLEASE READ IT! Actually, the CPS and VTEC is in the SAME category.
VVT-I and VVTL-I is 2 different system. The VVTL-I is same with the I-VTEC system where it has high and low rpm lobes and can vary the valve timing inteligently (The ‘I’ stands for that). The difference between normal VTEC and I-VTEC is the inteligence of the system to vary its valve timing. In the VTEC the valve timing is based on presets in the ECU, as i mentioned above. The I-VTEC however can ‘inteligently’ vary the valve timing based on driving conditions, engine conditons and so on. It uses an Artificial Inteligence controller to predict to suitable valve timing. This is similar to the VVTL-I from Toyota. However the VVTL-I engine production has been stopped due to emission problems.
The VVT-I engine has the similar ‘inteligence’ system as i have explained above, but it does only that; VARY THE VALVE TIMING, live CVTC also. So the CPS IS DIFFERENT FROM VVT/VVT-I and CVTC systems and SIMILAR TO THE VTEC!
Please dont post blindly!!! CHECK UR FACTS!!!
Cheers!!!
sifu said,
In the VTEC the valve timing is based on presets in the ECU, as i mentioned above. The I-VTEC however can ‘inteligently’ vary the valve timing based on driving conditions, engine conditons and so on. It uses an Artificial Inteligence controller to predict to suitable valve timing. This is similar to the VVTL-I from Toyota
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Sounds like fuzzy logic..is it??
Si-fu,
Thank you for sharing, it’s very informative, at least for me. Now I have better knowledge abt CPS. Gen2 aside, I hope Proton hv better plan for Waja bcos i really look forward to its replacement.
si-fu said, January 29, 2008 @ 2:39 am
CPS DOESN’T vary its valve timing. Please bear this in mind. Toyota’s VVT/VVT-I and Nissan’s CVTC does this. Wat CPS is actually, it has 3 lobes per intake valve. 1 low rpm lobe and 2 high rpm lobe. This is SIMILAR to the VTEC system but not EXACTLY THE SAME! What the VVT/VVT-I and CVTC engine does is ONLY vary the valve timing; ie advancing or retarding the valve opening. It DOESNâ€T HAVE the high and low rpm lobes LIKE THE CPS AND VTEC has. Hope u get this fact clear. I have explained the difference between CPS and VTEC above. PLEASE READ IT! Actually, the CPS and VTEC is in the SAME category.
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Thank you for detail explanation Si-Fu on the CPS..
It really answers my inquries on how’s the CPS really works..
Campro CPS beats other 1.6 engine from toyota, nissan & etc..
Eventhough the CPS only at the intake camshaft…
From my understanding, VTEC has 2 low rpm lobe and 1 high rpm lobe per intake valve rite? It also has the same config at the axhaust camshaft?
The VTEC will engaged on at certain rpm (example 5,200 rpm), Will there be also on CPS? If there is, what rpm it will be engage?
Please correct if I’m wrong…budak baru belajar..hehe..
Dear Si-Fu
haha, i asked questions , in order to satisfy, if not some of others, my very own curiosities. engine tech and development always baffles me. very intrigue…indeed, and so as you i presumed:-)
if you’re saying that there will not be any further development or upgrade as you said it of the cps at the moment, and proton is gearing for “another” direction, and there will not be a cps 2.0l anytime soon, i would reckon that the “another” direction is towards force induction tech by means of super charging the current cps 1.6l to simulate bigger toque characteristics as what bigger engine cc would normally behave. turbo charge system will introduced lag, which in turn not so practical to be used inside the commercial, every day road going car, imho, although dual seq turbo system will eliminate the lag, but the cost.. again.. squared 1
it makes sense, as cost of adding FI will be much cheaper compare to building up bigger displacement. though i would assumed that this is a “short term” solution, as building bigger cc is a much better way to go in the long run. a fren always said to me that there is no subs of power/torque than putting up those cc. not completely true though..
do you think that proton has enough personnel (60+lotus) in the RnD department to fairly compete in the global market with other car manufacturers? model lifecycle due for facelift or int upgrade is becoming shorter and shorter, and the push from auto giants to even shorten it is becoming quite evident, with the intro of new tech, and the latest automotive craze is, among others the dual clutch thing. amazing..what was the questions again? hmm
atkop
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You are certainly a person with many questions!!! Hahahahahaha, which is good actually. However, i can’t answer all your question so i will try to summarize and answer whichever is possible. I dont think there will be any uprgrade to the CPS anytime soon or in the future as Proton has other ‘plans’ (which i can’t reveal) for the future. This will not definitely be a Campro 2.0L. Just wait until it comes ot yea. Powertrain is a department in Proton’s RnD. It has about 40 engineers and 20 technicians. Lotus helps the deparment mostly in terms of technical help and advise. Mostly the design and new product development is done together. So both Proton and Lotus are equally involved together. The person in charge is surely a Malaysian.
Hi everybody!
To yippi33:
Yea, it is fuzzy logic system. It uses a fuzzy logic controller to predict output.
To san_j:
The CPS switches from low rpm lobe to a high rpm lobe at approx 3800rpm. At this rpm also, the VIM switches from long runner to short runner.
To atkop:
So this is what i can tell you: it will be a force induction system that uses a variable intake geometry to reduce/eliminate lag. This will be coupled with a variable valve timing system and cam-profile shifting (like cps). Its a combination of the best things that you can think of. I call it the ‘Campro Cocktail’. Hahahahahahaha, i just revealed to you what i am not supposed to, so please keep it low. Bigger cc engines is always an option nowdays as fuel consumption is an issue. Unlike the ‘set up’ i mentioned above, it gives you good comsumption at low engine speeds, good torque at low end and high ends and the most important thing, power when only u need it. So i can say this is more economical then a bigger cc engine.
U are mistaken about the number of personel. The amount i mentioned (60+lotus) is ONLY IN THE POWERTRAIN DEPARTMENT. NOT THE WHOLE RND. The whole RND has about FEW HUNDRED personels including engineers, technicians and support staffs from Lotus.
Hi everybody!
Somehow my previous post went missing!
To yippi33:
Yes, its a fuzzy logic system which uses a fuzzy logic controller to predict the possible valve timing suitable for the current conditions.
To san_j:
The CPS switches from low speed rpm lobe to high speed rpm lobe at aprrox 3800rpm. At this speed also, the VIM switches from long runner to short runner.
To atkop:
This is something about the new engine. It will use force induction system which has variable intake geometry to reduce/eliminate lag. It will be coupled with variable valve timing and cam profile shifting. It has all the ‘goodies’ that u can think of! I call this the ‘Campro Cocktail’. I just revealed to u something which i shouldn’t so please keep it low. Using a bigger cc engine nowdays is always an option due to its development cost, emission and fuel consumption issues. The system above, provides good consumption at low speed, good low end and high end torque and most importantly power only when u need it.
About the number of personel, u got me wrong. The amount i mentioned(60+Lotus) IS ONLY IN POWERTRAIN DEPARTMENT. NOT THE ENTIRE RND. The entire PROTON RND has FEW HUNDRED personels, including engineers, technicians, and support staffs from Lotus.
Cheers!
it is going to be the most powerful 1.6 around
waja interior is ok but the problem is with the exterior
as for gen2 it looks all right but it is a little cramp
sifu,
it 3 lobes (as variocam plus do) , and how does the fast cam/lobe actuated,
if it actuated by tapped itself, for sure its variocam plus,
this one important key answer from sifu, if sifu clarify this, thanks,
Lotus Engineering has been chosen to design and develop a new powertrain product variant that will utilise Lotus’ patented Cam Profile Switching technology. “We have already successfully demonstrated certain aspects of this technology in today’s market. Indeed the Porsche VarioCam PlusTM system utilises design elements licensed from Lotus Engineering.”
(lotus engineering)
Hi everybody!
To yippi33:
Yes, its a fuzzy logic system which uses a fuzzy logic controller to predict the possible valve timing suitable for the current conditions.
To san_j:
The CPS switches from low speed rpm lobe to high speed rpm lobe at aprrox 3800rpm. At this speed also, the VIM switches from long runner to short runner.
To atkop:
This is something about the new engine. It will use force induction system which has variable intake geometry to reduce/eliminate lag. It will be coupled with variable valve timing and cam profile shifting. It has all the ‘goodies’ that u can think of! I call this the ‘Campro Cocktail’. I just revealed to u something which i shouldn’t so please keep it low. Using a bigger cc engine nowdays is always an option due to its development cost, emission and fuel consumption issues. The system above, provides good consumption at low speed, good low end and high end torque and most importantly power only when u need it.
About the number of personel, u got me wrong. The amount i mentioned(60+Lotus) IS ONLY IN POWERTRAIN DEPARTMENT. NOT THE ENTIRE RND. The entire PROTON RND has FEW HUNDRED personels, including engineers, technicians, and support staffs from Lotus.
To Proton GL:
The actuating mechanism for the high speed lobe is similar to the Porsche’s VarioCam Plus. It has a dual function tappet where the centre tappet is for the low speed lobe and at aprrox 3800rpm, a solenoid actuator releases hydraulic fluid to the tappet and locks the high speed lobe and low speed lobe tappet together via a pin. It similar to the VarioCam Plus Variable Valve Lift Mechanism. Its similar because as u said, It was both developed by Lotus. However please bear in mind the VarioCam Plus system comes with the variable valve timing mechanism which the CPS doesn’t have. U can see the triple lobe and dual tappet mechanism in the link below from Porsche:
http://homepage.virgin.net/shalco.com/VarioCamPlus.htm
Cheers!
very technical discussion indeed.. great!
sifu,
if we look at campro CPS cam cover ,its bulging out as to case a cam angle variator, or most likely its vvt, (i supposed)
and the lift actuator is of course cant be seen,
almost like simillar to variocam plus which equvalent vvt-l ,,i guess, -but correct me…
almost 2.11 pagi now ,nite
Hi everybody!
Sorry guys for the repeated posts. I thought my posts went missing.
To Proton GL:
As i have REPEATEDLY SAID, the CPS engine doesn’t come with a variable valve timing system, it only has the variable valve lift mechanism. Instead of using variable valve timing system, the CPS uses VIM which serves the same purpose: improve/increase torque of the engine. The CPS cam cover is the same one with normal Campro engine. There is no difference with the cam cover used. However, if you get a chance to see the CPS engine, u can see the solenoid actuator for the hydraulic fluid (actuator for the tappets) on the opposite site of the cam cover (opposite site of the engine, near the air intake snorkel).
Cheers!
hai everybody.
if it posible campro cps in a satria neo??
i tought i see some extended or off set cam pully housing defy the its vvt mech,
but if u said so, than its without it,
the fast cam lobe shape or profile anyway will have the valve opening and closing with its new phase/duration might as well benefit the second half of the rpm, so by nature the oppening is advanced and certain amount of overlap is there, so its as good,
(i cant help my feeling that its without vvt)
correct me sifu
and not to worry about the first half of the engine since VIM will take care of it,
so really is cps hp/torque at second half
need more tips from sifu,
I think it takes more than a face-lift to convince people on Proton. Firstly, there’s no difference between these models and the previous. Mere changes in grill size, fron head lamps mean nothing.
The designs to begin with, was not bad. It was quality that people were not satisfied with. Let’s hope they have improved on these 2 models as they had in the Persona (at least in the show room units).
Engine? Don’t hold your breath. Really.
si-fu said,
January 30, 2008 @ 3:34 am
Hi everybody!
Sorry guys for the repeated posts. I thought my posts went missing.
To Proton GL:
As i have REPEATEDLY SAID, the CPS engine doesn’t come with a variable valve timing system, it only has the variable valve lift mechanism. Instead of using variable valve timing system, the CPS uses VIM which serves the same purpose: improve/increase torque of the engine. The CPS cam cover is the same one with normal Campro engine. There is no difference with the cam cover used. However, if you get a chance to see the CPS engine, u can see the solenoid actuator for the hydraulic fluid (actuator for the tappets) on the opposite site of the cam cover (opposite site of the engine, near the air intake snorkel).
Cheers!
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thanks sifu
yes sifu i agree its definitely its uses the principle like a honda v-tech, very good
infact, i could have imagine that its likely to be a near 3 staged v-tech,
honda first stage of v-tech at lower rpm ,one intake valve is almost diable or very very low, -hence torque advantage,
as for campro cps, long runner- for torque advantage,
honda second stage of the v-tech, both intake valve runs equally but at normal midrange cam lobe,
as for campro (not sure ,probally is the begining of short runner without lift actuated)
honda third stage, racier cam take place,
as for campro, short runner + lift in action, for futher hp and subtancial amount of torque,
anyway apart from 3 stage v tech, for some model honda does goes with intake resonance with variable timing and lift,(2 stage)
alfa also do have variator with tunable intake for some T spark,
so, i ll stop here,
thanks sifu
SALUTE! new Campro,
last but not least,
proton campro cps is certainly more aggresive racier (top end advantage) than toyota vvt-i
because of the ‘lift’
(sorry dear forumer, i talk too much here, i leave the final say to sifu,)
Hoho, pretty soon, we can see pictures of ppl modifyin the img “VTEC JUST KICKED IN YO!!” to “CPS JUST KICKED IN YO!!”, yohohoho.
Btw, why oni waja gets twin pipe? I tot Gen2 shud get that too, so that can distinguish it more than any normal CPS-less gen2, just like waja CPS from normal waja too (aside from waja 1.8)
“LittleFire85 said,
January 28, 2008 @ 1:32 pm
350d, have u seen the Momo steering fitted in the passo? Even mitsu lancer steering fell more prestige… U can see the fake carbon fiber around the steering, fell a bit cheapo…”
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I don’t want to have any argument with you. But there’s no fake carbon fiber around the steering. Cheers bro :-)
Sifu,
You should really start your own blog ;-)
i looking forward for gen.2 cps