Puad: “Proton should be turned into an assembler”

“I feel that Proton’s role should be made like that of Astra in Indonesia, which is an assembler only for Toyota, Daihatsu and Isuzu vehicles and they have a huge market just as an assembler alone. There is no need for two companies to produce the national cars as we do not know if the negotiation (Proton) with Volkswagen will resolve the problem,” said Senator Dr Mohd Puad Zarkashi at the Dewan Negara today.

He suggested that Proton should be turned into a contract assembler to assemble cars by other manufacturers who want to establish CKD assembly lines here in Malaysia. Recent cars that have started CKD assembly in Malaysia include the Suzuki Swift and Kia Sportage, while car companies like Chinese marque Chery have been trying to establish local assembly here in Malaysia for it’s cars.

He thinks Perodua should remain the sole producer of national cars as they have shown more success in selling cars compared to Proton.

Source

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Paul Tan

After dabbling for years in the IT industry, Paul Tan initially began this site as a general blog covering various topics of personal interest. With an increasing number of readers paying rapt attention to the motoring stories, one thing led to another and the rest, as they say, is history.

 

Comments

  • nmh (Member) on Jul 19, 2007 at 11:43 pm

    Tats rite bro….

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  • fastcx (Member) on Jul 19, 2007 at 11:55 pm

    Produa is more like a assembler to me than a national car producer…

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  • digiman (Member) on Jul 19, 2007 at 11:58 pm

    agree with fastcx… again another politician making baseless claim..

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  • Bbingbong (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 12:00 am

    those politician r stupid, si puad ni bodo x reti beza ke..perodua r truly assembler not the national car maker..

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  • Azuma (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 12:02 am

    Lol…orang gila. Tak reti beza ker mane satu assembler, mane satu car maker? Tu la, asik pakai keta Merc, BMW. Tak amik tau hal keta dalam Malaysia.

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  • kevyeoh (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 12:16 am

    whatever it is…i agree with the point that proton to be turned into assembler for various car maker like toyota, city etc…hehehe…

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  • Kevin Lee (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 12:19 am

    the bloody senator shouldnt even meddle with this business

    if proton cars are to manufacture CKD redesigns, then we are no different than driving toyotas or other japanese makes, gone are the individualisms of proton and its tech

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  • ingolstadt (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 12:34 am

    Perodua assembler? Nope. They are our national car manufacturer. Proton is our blood sucker.

    The business of automobile manufacturers are far too complex to be understood or comprehend by you mere commenters here who disagree with this whatever Puad.

    You guys only see different ‘designs’ as a means of National Manufacturer, which is a WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG perspective.

    In manufacturing and marketing business, nothing had to do with how the car looks. —> Check market success of Avanza, Unser.

    Perodua doesn’t give a hoot if the cars carry any national characteristics, that’s the way of business.

    Those who still are striving to gain a sense of ‘pride’ into selling our national identity should just read more and learn more to get over with their inferiority complex.

    If the nation, country, people is respectable, slowly, same goes their product. The first thing to fix Proton is not to dump money, but to switch our own’s mentality, from then on with education and systems put into place, our nation will have lesser leeches, idiots, Samy Velus or Rafidahs and then our people will start to have more self esteem, higher standards of expectations, and from then on, our products (which is a direct reflect of our nation’s progress) will slowly improve by itself with our expectations and systems put into place by education.

    Hence to have a manufacturer like BMW, in which Germanians carry so much heritage, pride with them; we’ll have to project how long it takes for our country’s people to behave socially, ecologically, and environmentally responsible like the Germanians, which is roughly about 200 years later.

    Hence I guess we’ll have BMW-like cars in about 200 year’s time, and for the time being, we’ll just have to stick with Perodua, which IMO in Malaysia, ringgit to ringgit, bang for buck wise, have the best products. (Which apparently doesn’t attract me much due I’m not in the market for that sort of car.)

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  • kimisawa (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 12:51 am

    it’s Germans, not Germanians!!!

    I for one agree with the senator. We are pumping way too much money into proton just to keep them afloat and this is one of the best ways to get them out of trouble in the short term. They can always set up another plant somewhere else and assemble proton cars exclusively in the future when they have returned to the black if they want to maintain their so-called national pride.

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  • Fireball (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 1:34 am

    I dont see a point converting Proton into this and that… it’s like a hole in a bag, money flowing out all the time. You cant patch(with conversions) it up, it’ll just give way again, and there the money will flow. Throw the bag(Proton) away… Shut it down and move on in life with the money which has stopped flowing away. Convert proton to this and that, sooner or later, it’ll just drain OUR money away, the countries money! Unless there’s a whole revolution, a whole new management and aim to improve in quality(like changing the whole bag to a new bag), just shut it down.

    Perodua? Let them do what they’re doing, dont dont do much harm to us.

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  • Fireball (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 1:35 am

    *country’s money

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  • PTAllTheBest (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 3:26 am

    i thought the talk was over with both of them disagree. what car will they do if p1 was to be an assembler. mitsu?

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  • wong (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 4:34 am

    when something goes wrong,point fingers,thats what politicians do,the ‘know it all mentality’ is not going to do any good for proton..i’ve used protons for more than 10 years and just bought a new 2doors model and i noticed a lot of improvements overall,of course i wont compare it with my bmw, but for a price below 50k,i’m happy i’ve bought it and never come across any problems as many claimed..hmmm a senator talks about car industry like an expert..maybe he thought making cars is like making mini compos..sorry..

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  • azhar167 (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 6:59 am

    proton has a factory with an excess of 200,000 capacity in Tg Malim AND an older factory in Shah Alam BUT is selling only something like 7-8,000 a month… there is no economy of scale and most of the lines are probably laying idle for so long it probably cannot function with additional injection of funds. In fact, I would not be surprised if the assembly lines have been stripped clean of its tools and what not by the idle line workers for a fast buck.

    proton is nothing but a festering sore that continue to bleed the rakyats money away, and yes, the only way to close this wound is to get more work going and to produce up to the projected capacity.

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  • azrai (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 7:30 am

    If she’s said this 12 years ago, the answer is yes. But we already invest so much money on our own R&D and local team. It is a waste if we turn Proton into assembler. Hyundai evolved from Ford assembler to carmaker. The thing is, Proton already have bad reputation among Malaysian before. Kita jadi serik. “Dah jauh pakcik jalan nak. Tapi ingat, jalan ke depan. Bukan ke belakang.” Plus, avoid politic and kronisme with the business entity. This is the real culprit + the overtax by the government.

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  • 4G63T DSM (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 7:38 am

    There is some truth to it though.

    Turning Proton into “just” an assembler is probably the wrong direction, but I cant see anythign wrong in utilizing the production capacity of Proton’s manufacturing facilities.

    Not too long ago, Proton was “just” assembling Mitsus…….(actually, still is….)

    Proton itself was built on a notion of Pride, not business, and thus is why finding tough issues now. Our market is simply not big enough. Through economies of scale, bigger manufacturers can make cars cheaper and better.

    We have been feeding this dying giant indirectly or directly with our tax dollars to keep it afloat, but not getting anything back.

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  • Cire (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 8:01 am

    When we talked abt proton, the comments gained could be compiled into a 24 books encylopedias.
    Puad may have a point there, but it should not be converting it into something else. It should sell off its TMalim plant, reconsolidate back to SAlam plant, pry some techies from VW, and slowly develope it into something meaningful.
    It should not horde the resources like TMalim plant for the sake of “face” as it is already no more “face” to be lost anyway..

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  • BanyakMasukWorkshop (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 8:10 am

    WOW.. so many people who are against the malaysian government in so many threads here, are suddenly a big fan of a senator they probably never heard of before this, just because he seems to be toe’ing the same line as they are.

    very strange…..

    for a start, perodua doesn’t even “Produce” national cars, they churn our rebadged cars from overseas manufacturers. So how does he expect Perodua to take over? they are still an assembler by all counts.

    I think some credit should go to proton, especially with the recent news. It proves they have not been sitting on their behinds all this time and waiting for a partner. They got new models coming, big business in china secured, expanded their export markets, reinvented their outlook towards customer service, Lotus making money.. isn’t that evidence of change?

    This senator seems to be oblivious to the news around him as well. Just like the majority of Malaysian politicians, they love to speak before they’ve done the proper research and have all the facts.. wait a minute…sounds almost like some of the people who post here…hmmm..

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  • acbc (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 8:15 am

    Turning Proton into an assembler is one way to ensure the company will survive in many years to come. Why? The current 3 departments are SLOW! R&D, Management and even QC departments are highly inefficient.

    Of course, Proton may need to close down a few Proton Edar showrooms to save cost since it’s primary business will be assembling cars from other marques.

    Who knows? In 20 years to come, Proton may come back as a automobile manufacturer.

    Right now, business is business… they need the money fast. Plus, they have the facilities and capacities. To the other marques, they don’t have to invest on assembly plants, saving costs here. It’s a win-win situation for Proton – they will like Naza, making bucket loads of cash daily.

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  • waimak (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 8:16 am

    Politicians dont build cars. Politicians dont do business. They are policy makers. Some policies are good and some are not. Politicians tend to give opinions which the general public and the media tend to accept as decision by the authority and then (on certain matters) become a policy – which i personally think is not right.

    To turn Proton into an assemble is a step backward. Dont mix politics with business please!

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  • fastcx (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 8:52 am

    Don’t u guys think turning proton into assembler is waste of previous effort? since the plant have a lots of space left, proton probably share their assembly plant with other company, n yet proton still as their own, dont change to assembler. at least proton can earn some revenue from sharing/renting parts of the assembly plant to other marque.

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  • Ricc (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 8:52 am

    If Proton is going to assembly Toyota car in M’sia, I’ll not buying any Toyota car anymore…

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  • Infinitt (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 8:58 am

    Stoopid Fuad..hopefully he read this.. haha..u know nothing..

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  • rexis (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 8:59 am

    Politicians are policy makers yes, but most of them only taaaaaaalk for fun.

    Again, whats the point of who being the national car??? Still someone failed to know how much this “national” car thing has damaged us?

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  • xsaraloeb (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 9:06 am

    What is this Senator “Poo At” saying ? 20 years ago Proton with the might of Mitsubishi awed most Malaysian with its models and I remember vividly the running our Green and Blue Sagas were the MUST in Malaysia at that time.

    How time flies and P1 were in deep shit. But the same scenario is being taken by P2 which with all its might of its parent gangs Daihatsu and Toyota…have managed to awed most Malaysians. The scenario is the same la Senator.

    Both companies are just assemblers of cars without any R&D knowledge. Sent to Japan for study come back resigned and work as P1 suppliers. These are the R&D Engineers that P1 has groomed and later became their suppliers. The R&D section sucks money and should have been closed down many years ago. The can’t even design a car body let alone an engine.

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  • auctioncenter2u (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 9:09 am

    He is suggesting PROTON to MAKE FAST EASY Moneys first!

    If Proton turned into Assembler, then there is no difference between what TAN CHONG MOTORs, DRB-Hicom, NAZI….etc are doing now.

    GOOD BYE Automotive Design…….

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  • neo2 (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 9:20 am

    Malaysia is the biggest automotive market in ASEAN countries. Many world reknown car makers are trying every lopholes of our national protective policies to penetrate local car market. AP for instance. One of the reason for protection by G is to hinder bilions ringgit from flowing from Malaysia so that we could control our trading deficit. It also serves to promote local automotive industry. Initially, the reasons for protection have some reasonable and commercial justifiable grounds. Sadly, it was misused and later abused by minority politicians and its cronies. What Malaysia needs is more education and a revamped approaches to education, not currently what usual Asian countries adopted as stereo-typed, memorised, lack of creative and innovative and most of OBEDIENT. Singapore, for instance also over-emphasized on academic achievement rather than cultivating creative and innovative minds and which creates efficient, yes, but absolute obedient citizen, like military. Younger generation of Malaysian nowadays does not THINK, they just FOLLOW blindly, despite the fact that some of the things happening here in Malaysia does not seems right. Learning should be self-awared, not driven by A or distinctions. American and European enjoy reading and creating new things, but we Malaysian enjoy fighting among ourselves and politicians manipulating racisme to gain self-interest and most of us are still aceepting this idea!
    Same applied for Proton, why is everybody is so narrow-minded? Always talking about national pride, patriotisme and even racisme? The world is so wide and unlimited with no boundaries. Open your eyes and look at globalisation, stop thinking like a frog in a well. The emerging gigantic econonomic power of India, China and Russia is haunting every countries now, even the proud US is concerned over its ever non-stop and still increasing of 20 billions trading deficits.
    Please wake up people! Proton does not have the economy of scale and it is killing itself slowly by hoping to regain the market share of local car market. Proton, please face the fact, even you somehow managed to 100% dominate Malaysia market (which it almost did back in 90s, like almost 75-80%), Malaysia is just a too small market to keep you alive! Same applied for consumer market, with 20 millions of population, our ex-PM tried to create a huge local market for self substain. In theory, yes it is possible, but in practical how to have 70 millions of population as envisaged by ex-PM (70 millions population was the target set by ex-PM to create self substainable local market)?
    When everyone in the world is trying to sell things to countries with higher purchasing power while our poor Proton just thinking of Malaysia market or even worst, how to eliminate its local opponents like P2, Naza or Inokom. And it is shamelessly hidding behind the politicians and its cronies to back it up with whatever absurd excuses it could conjure with.
    Proton, vision! What and where is your vision! Malaysia should be your step stone to world market, not grave yard!
    Tzh, tzh, tzh … Juara Kampung!

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  • CPL (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 9:30 am

    Hi,

    I personally feel that the Senator made the comment without understanding the automotive industry. We, Malaysian would really like to penetrate International markets in order to be sustainable in the near future. We cannot only to rely on the domestic market by just assembling cars for other Japanese or European car makers.

    One good strategy is one has been used by Perodua, that’s manufacturing under their own brand but also assembling cars for Toyota to maximise the utilisation of their manufacturing capacity. No doubt, Perodua cars are rebadging of Daihatsu models, however, they sell these cars as their own brand in the International market. I would consider Naza as an assembler as they have very limited International markets presence compared to P1 and P2.

    Perhaps P1 can maximise the utilisation of their plants by doing the same as Perodua to assemble cars for their future partner. They can then gain the skills and knowledge required in developing, manufacturing, marketing, etc. of their cars.

    Automotive is a huge industry in Malaysia and in the World. Of course as Malaysian, I would really like to see ourself progress and have a better future.

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  • fastd (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 9:33 am

    Hello Dr Puad, last time we assemble a car, tadika children also can do maa…. No different what? Only real car & toy car (Dash yan Kuro)…. So, when we are going to develope in automotive industry?

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  • mycar_stolen (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 9:40 am

    Proton die faster la….
    say bye2 to Perdana Replacement Model…

    Proton is a National Insult
    Malaysian Badminton team lost the Thomas Cup because their jerseys have the Proton logo, same with Norwich City relegated because of Proton…

    Proton is National Disasster, all time humiliation , insult to motor industry.

    now want to become assembler ka? afetr 22 years..

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  • king (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 9:47 am

    puad is a stupid asshole wasting our tax money that dun even know wat is an assembler. since when p2 produced any national cars? wat an idiotic moron.
    Dr somemore…..i think better go back to kindergarten.

    he should say:” proton should turn to an assembler like p2 since its more successful that way'”

    that would have sounded right.

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  • CPL (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 10:08 am

    Hi,

    I personally feel that the Senator had made a comment that could be very embarassing to himself. We, Malaysian must penetrate International markets in order to be sustainable in the near future.

    P2 has been very successful in the domestic market due to their good strategy that is (1) manufacturing cars under their own brand and (2) assembling cars for Toyota to maximise the utilisation of their plants. No doubt, P2 models are rebadged of Daihatsu, however, P2 cars are sold as their own brand in the International markets. Unlike, Naza which has very limited International presence … which is more like an assembler than a car maker.

    P1 has been looking for a partner who can provide them with technology edge (i.e. chassis design, turbo engine, etc.). P1 is expected to to copy P2 business model for their future partner, to assemble cars for their partner. The skills and knowledge gained can then be applied to the design, manufacturing, marketing, etc. to the existing or future models.

    Dr. Puad, we need to move ahead not backward.

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  • forestcat (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 10:29 am

    Many Australians actually lament when GM boughy Holden, they lost their opportunities to DESIGN their own cars and now get outdated models with Holden badges.

    The opportunity to be involved in design and manufacturing is the ultimate dream of any engineer. Proton’s R&D is a valuable asset that will be sorely missed .

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  • Bbingbong (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 10:45 am

    Dr Puad u kene tgk iklan petronas byk2 , klu x pi tgk kat mymesra.com.my… “Jalan pandang ke depan, bukan pandang belakang”

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  • moto_moto (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 10:55 am

    i wonder where he get that Dr title! memalukan..perodua is assembler.proton is national car producer!STUPID.hopefully he read this.shame..shame.. Dr.kopi O i guess.
    He should say ‘perodua should expand their horizon, assemble toyota/mits/vw. Proton remains as national car producer’ then i agree.
    i dont think toyota wants proton to assemble their car.huahuahua!
    Anyway, personally i think proton is improving now.

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  • osh_kosh (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 10:55 am

    a step backward…

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  • nizam80 (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 11:01 am

    “He suggested that Proton should be turned into a contract assembler to assemble cars by other manufacturers who want to establish CKD assembly lines here in Malaysia.”

    – I may agree on this statement, but only to a certain extent. Proton could this but, at the same time, keep developing and manufacturing its own cars like what they are doing now.

    “He thinks Perodua should remain the sole producer of national cars as they have shown more success in selling cars compared to Proton.”

    – I disagree on this statement. He should say: “……sole producer of JAPANESE national cars……..”

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  • nizam80 (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 11:08 am

    moto_moto said,
    July 20, 2007 @ 10:55 am
    .
    “i dont think toyota wants proton to assemble their car.huahuahua!”

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Agree with u. Looking at the quality of Proton cars, i don’t Toyota or any other possibble car company wants Proton to assemble their cars.

    And… my opinion on this statement: “He thinks Perodua should remain the SOLE PRODUCER OF NATIONAL CARS”

    Don’t talk cock lah Senator!!!

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  • AzaniLaiho (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 11:33 am

    i think from puad view… “Proton need to stop produce ugly junk looking, backward tech. and non-multipurpose category cars”… that is what he talking about…come on guys.. think out of the box…

    accept that we are not capable to produce good looking/high tech car, yes there is petronas hi-tech engine, rumors good looking prototype proton car, but is it go to production?…hell not…rumors n rumors.

    So, the easiest way to save the Proton (not the selfish stake-holder, while “malaysia boleh” people fighting to protect proton, the selfishes smiling coz they are getting rich!!) is to welcome the VW, but and again for sure this “Malaysia boleh” people would protest this…n “malaysia boleh” people would driving the junk for next 20 years… lucky for me to drive this used civic, even it nearly reach 11 year old, the chassis is good, got really economy engine, and the most important, optional for the legendary b16..hehe

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  • torishimeyakuin (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 11:54 am

    Dear ingolstadt, azhar167, acbc, & CPL,

    You really got good points there. Cheers !! Concorde to all your sayings. Bravo.

    And to dear mycar_stolen,
    ++
    Malaysian Badminton team lost the Thomas Cup because their jerseys have the Proton logo, same with Norwich City relegated because of Proton…

    **********************************************************

    Haha…that’s a good one. Make me grin all the way. 8 )

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  • The Unicons (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 12:07 pm

    Senator Dr Mohd Puad Zarkashi really don’t understand until today. I don’t understand why some ministers or in this case senator talking rubbish at Dewan Negara. Better keep quite if don’t know anything. Don’t think people will say you are doing work if you talk (rubbish).

    Perodua actually more like car asembler of Daihatsu/Toyata as until today Perodua is buying the copyright and models from Daihatsu/Toyota, make some cosmetic changes then come out with own names.

    Proton however already move from car asembler since 1985 to car manufacturer back in 1996 when the Proton Waja project started and launched in 2000.

    The problem in Proton is about the quality which really hurts them dearly. However, they are improving now. The sad thing is that now no matter what they are planning to do or is/are doing to expand and improve, they are many people still unhappy with Proton. ~SIGH~

    I’m not supporting Proton, as I only hope they can do well as other marques.

    Cheers all.

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  • faizainal (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 12:16 pm

    naa..not motivating at all la en. fuad.. you are not going to solve the problem..P1 still need to focus first on its internal problem rather than forget it and be an assembler ..then, word ‘perusahaan’ wont be legall anymore for proton..i believe there still time ( eventhough very tight) for P1 to be back on track…!!

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  • noAP4u (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 12:21 pm

    How the senator said what he said does not detract from the clear message he is trying to bring across: Proton is heading nowhere but down in its current state. It cannot afford to develop new models on its own (no economies of scale to offset development costs) and it can’t keep on producing the likes of Wira & Saga (their only volume sellers) forever. The Waja is also ageing. Still the Tanjung Malim plant has to stay in production. And the goods produced are filling up car yards bcos no buyers. If in the short term they do not contract assemble, the surplus capacity will be a heavy burden (staff still has to be paid, production full or not) etc.

    At least by contract assembly you definitely get paid for work done, as well as reducing inventory of your own stock, staff are taken care of, parts procured are utilised.

    To all those who scream that Proton is a car manufacturer, I respectfully ask why then, for every Saga & Wira made since Day 1, is Proton paying royalties to Mitsubishi for using their engines? (and their Lancer designs?)

    Car makers develop their own engines, either on their own or in cooperation with others. But their input counts. Campro is developed by Lotus, not Proton. (Proton owns Lotus, but that doesn’t mean Proton is Lotus. Lotus still bills Proton for design fees & engineering consultation — ya what — how else is Lotus gonna make money?)

    Contract assembly doesn’t only mean you assembly other people’s car like Tan Chong for Nissan; it can also mean you assemble your car and rebadge to your clients’ request. Which means Proton is already going in that route by tying up with Youngman to supply Gen2 as Youngman brand in China.

    So the Senator does make sense. Sentiments do not ensure Proton’s survival. Waiting around for years for news of a white horse prince to scoop Proton out of its own quicksand gets it nowhere. Pragmatic business strategies is the only way forward.

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  • neo2 (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    Let’s try this: If Proton quality is the same Toyota or at least P2, do you support Proton then? Errh, nope. Unless both at same quality and at same range of price for same engine chasis, that’s possible.
    The reason we have Proton is so that Malaysia could save billions of ringgit by buying cars from its our own country. Patriotisme and loyalty sentinels are manipulated by politician to fool general public, please do not fall for it.
    Indeed, Malaysia had done so in the past 20 years and billions of ringgit saved went to where? Nobody knows when citizen in KL, Klang valley & selangor in general are paying tolled highways and Malaysian having leaked, cracked and fungus buildings. So, tell me, supporting P1, even it somehow improves its quality but import duty remains artificially high for non-national cars, does it really going to make any difference?
    Sorry, dude, for RM60k, you could afford a 1.6 manual Waja premium with standard ABS, Dual air bags and CAMPRO engine. That’s all. Toyota Camry without import duty only RM60k. Please refer http://www.customs.gov.my/html/cbu2006warta.htm
    Guess what? Does G going to uplift import duty when P1 turns to profitable?
    I don’t think so with so many politicians and cronies want to share from the profit.
    For those under-educated forumer to shout commentor like me to change nationality, supporting P1 means you are feeding politicians and cronies, imbecile! (P/S: In case you do not understand the word of imbecile, dictionary will tell you that it means “having a mental age of three to seven years ” refer this link: http://www.google.com.my/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:imbecile&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

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  • wong (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 1:28 pm

    loose or gain proton must carry on,because thats business,there are ups and downs,all good cars are not perfect, thats why the come up with new models improvements made from previous errors,giving up is not the answer..if were to compare the early saga/iswara and satria neo,theres major improvement,still not perfect but again ..theres no perfect car.

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  • 1NZFE (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 2:06 pm

    I think the problem is competation among car manufaturers. P2 is already joint venture with Toyota n daihatsu, provide a large segment of cars frm supermin car to a pick-up truck n also Naza, drb-hicom n etc..
    So I suggest P1 must quickly find a partner in this world of competation.
    But i not understand y joint venture between P1 n mitsu is broken in 2004???
    If not, they will become a 1 group.

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  • kei9 (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 2:24 pm

    what the hell? its not what i think……

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  • acbc (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 2:39 pm

    A good question here… which partner is interested in Proton? Mitsubishi, VW, GM, Peugeot all gone with the wind… anyone else?

    Naza? If they were to take over Proton, it will become an assembler only for other marques that Naza distributes.

    For Proton to survive, they need to take other businesses also… like assembling imported only marques such as VW, Mitsubishi, Subaru and etc… don’t restrict to 1 marque only. However, QC department must improve overnight.

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  • Prem3377 (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    what crap???perodua is the realy assembler..not proton!!!we only buy gearbox now..and that also not for long..but perodua only produce the body panels..so whose the assembler?? how come the dumpo PUAD can come come with something stupid like this???assembler??toyota have their thoer own assembly line..so does most major car manufacturer in malaysia..they also have in thailand…and labour cost there is way much cheaper..so which company gonna ask proton for help??think before you talk la!!!CRAP…then u gonna cheat rakyat with 1.3 cc car with rm 51 k price tag???just because the engine got DVVT,door can open 80 degree…foldable seats abs and airbag..i wanna sell so much..so if proton assemble..how can the price of larger cars be cheaper than 51k??its not gonna make any different!!

    people who ask to close down proton..think a million times before u guys talk…and dont be selfish…u think you wont be affected if proton close down??and u will get cheaper cars??dream on guys…if proton close down..more than a million ppl will be directly affected!!from the factory worker to ur neighbourhood mechanics…accesory dealer to car dealers..local parts produces to retail shops wic sell spare parts…from service center to petrol station..from saga drivers to perdana v6 drivers…from used car dealer to newspaper classified add seller and advertiser…its not as simple as saying close shop..sell the factory and balik rumah…proton had help us alot directly or indirectly…u think if there is other car manufacturer..i mean foreign manufacturers will care so much??today many south east asia automotive industry is kinda active and easy to sell..if our economy suddenly fall..or decrease…the manufacturer will find another country to shift their manufacuring plant…africa,south america,india and china is yet to be fully explored!!this foreign manufacturer same like british people..when our country had bijih timah..all came here and make the most out of it..yes many here made money but its was just a small portion of what the british ppl made…and when the bijih timah all habis…the gave us independence and went back,that wat they did to india…and all the country they ruled..so its just the same…but many just dont realize this…

    imagine there is gold mine…sure many mining company wanna extract the gold…and once there is no more goldin da mine..will the company stay here and help the country develop??will they?they will just go after a new gold mine!!thats why proton is important to our country,its not just selling cars, but buliding a nation!!like petronas twin tower..its not just another tower…its a nation symbol..not just for nation pride and a waste of money like many tink…just say paris?what most of us will tink of??effiel tower..right??so its a free add….and the world will know where and wat kl is..proton was a cleaver investment..and a jump start for our automotive industry and heavy industries..so its not easy closing proton…or making them assembler..yah many they will make money now..but when foreign manufacturers get a new gold mine..they will leave proton and the country..then what we gonna do??tell me…

    and about the car price..they will never go down even if proton close shop…or become an assembler…..toyota,nissan and honda are selling cars here at lower price because of proton..they wanna compete here with proton..if proton close shop..they will maintain the current price or hike up futher,cause they will be the next choice if u wanna own a car…no proton so u wanna drive a myvi for the rest of ur life??obviously no!!so wat sedan can be ur next choice??vios and city…can most u afford to pay rm 700 to 1000 a month for a car??ans is no again..so think again!!!other the stupid G would have closed proton years ago!!!its not only national pride..but survival of a nation for da long term!!!dont be selfish and just think of the short term benefits if there is any!!!

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  • Prem3377 (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 3:51 pm

    sorry bout my grammar and spelling in da post above…was typing kinda fast cause i am at work…hope its understandable..haha

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  • szw (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 3:56 pm

    shut up stupid paud fella.
    go drive a perodua…
    its a very safe car 4 you.

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  • zreen (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 4:08 pm

    what a stupid opinion by a bloody politician…..why concern ’bout a profit…? u must think 4 a long term….not just bloody money….!!..no wonder our football is become worst….all bzoc of same type of bloody politician minded….sellfish…!!

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  • proton.GL.. (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 4:16 pm

    proton got every thing now ,importantly platforms n engines and others like tech bits just an add on in order to keep up with automotive development,
    -no reason to trash proton,

    well, car assembly is just another possible extension of proton might to be,

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  • Prem3377 (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 4:16 pm

    neo2,

    the web link you gave is for car with zero tax!!which means sales tax and all…please get the fact rite..if you wanna know the actualy price of car which can be sold in malaysia without unecessary tax..check labuan and langkawi price…

    its impossible to sell cars in malaysia or any other coutry without tax…so dont demand for the impossible..then how the G gonna make money??even fast food restoran charge us 5% of sales takes and 10 % of service tax!!come on be logical please…the G needs money to survive and for investment…

    if you are a businessman u buy brand new camry for 60k to sell it..what price do u sell it??rm 60k also ar??so you wont make any profit??so what the use of doing a business then rite??please be realistic…almost every country charge tax for cars..and everything…in US the income tax is up to 30%…u buy cheap car there but u have to pay up 30% for income tax..so its almost the same situation in every country…the country survive because of tax…tax is important especially for developing country like us…honda accord in langkawi is rm 100k on da road..and in kl its rm 159000..so we are paying around 60 k for tax per honda accord for the G…yah it is too high, i do agree but again u cant get a honda accord or camry for the price of a waja!!!that wat i m trying to tell u…

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  • thecrash (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 4:35 pm

    Basic – rear drum brake
    1.6MT Solid —– 45,350
    1.6AT Solid —– 48,350
    1.6MT Metallic — 45,800
    1.6AT Metallic — 48,800

    Medium – airbag, rear disc brake,foldable RR seat, fog lamp,mp3, rear spoiler
    1.6MT Metallic — 49,800
    1.6AT Metallic — 52,800

    High – Captor, airbag, abs, mp3, rear disc brake,foldable seat, fog lamp, safetint, rear spoiler
    1.6AT Metallic — 55,800

    All inclusive insurance, EWP, first aid kit, safety triangle

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  • neo2 (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 5:02 pm

    @Prem3377, a lot of question marks and exclamation marks I can see.
    It is true Proton is one of economical force that is driving the our economy but not the main contributor of economy. For all the points that you mentioned, direct and indirectly industries that are relying on Proton can always look forward for change. For instance, mechanic that used to repair P1 can now repair P2 because car market is flooded with Myvi. Spart part suppliers could produce P2 spart parts instead of P2 and so on and so on. End of Proton is not end of Malaysia economy, that I can assure you.
    What I am trying to point out is the existence of Proton is based on plain commercial supply and demand. Why Proton demand is dropping like share market crash? Because when our beloved G slightly adjust the import duties for cars (NAP) to progressively comply with AFTA (ASEAN Free Trade Agreement, if you wonder what AFTA is) so that countries amongst ASEAN could trade freely each country’s goods, concept something similiar to EURO but we do not have ASEAN currency.
    The main objective of having AFTA is to create a huge consumer market for ASEAN countries so that all members could flourish from there onwards. One of the most lucrative market in ASEAN is car and Malaysia is the biggest amongst all members due to its Malaysian spending power, its economical fundamentals and land. Singapore is the richest in ASEAN but it discourages import of cars because its land size is no bigger than Penang island of Malaysia. Actually Singaporean has higher average income than Malaysian but due to its land size the government has no choice but to impose very high import duty and parking lot excise to hinder imports of car.
    After Singapore, Malaysia has the car market size of about few millions. But we are imposing same if not less than Singapore artificially high import duty to: 1. hinder billions ringgit of trading deficit 2. promote local automotive industry as well as surrounding industries (like what mentioned by Prem3377).
    If Prem3377 read my previous comments carefully, you will notice that at the end Malaysian still pay more to afford a car, I mean a Proton. We should not compare Proton with Toyota as imported cars have excessive import duties. Instead, we should compare P1 with P2, Savvy with Myvi and some other same basis. I agree that closing down Proton does not solve the over-priced cars in Malaysia, instead we should remove politicians and cronies that were sucking billions and billions from profiting supply chain with Proton. Of course, the ideal is the have reasoable priced ntaional with highest quality. At average we should not pay no more than 20% of our income for a car, fuel and maintenance as car is moving parts, it merely provides a mean to transport you from point A to point B, safely and comfortly. But cars like Yoyota Camry, Honda Accord and even C class Mercedes could cost us an apartment or double-storey terrace house in Malaysia. House (shelter) and transport (car) are basic needs but we are serving 9 years loan because of Proton! And I would say it is a lousy Proton. Some Proton bashers would describe Proton as scrap steel binding itself and forcing itself to move on the road, which it is an eye sore!
    We cannot deny that there are politicians that are using political influences to gain personal interest. For instance, how does a Klang assemblyman could build a 10 million bungalow in the centre of wooden village? Don’t tell me his petty salary could afford him.
    It is kind of unavoidable for developing countries, like ASEAN, African and even India and China. Different countries has different degree of improving their democracy amist fighting against corruption. Thailand for instance, we might not want to protest like Thai but we could always express our opinions in general election.
    How does an innocent citizen like Prem3377 could look through the lies and fakes fogged by politicians and cronies. Proton just merely an apparatus set up by a few powerful and influential politicians to feed themselves and their cronies. Without Proton, they are the first one to beg for mercy or even manupulating racisme issues to win votes. Remember how Proton dealers ask for RM300k compensation when their business is closing down? Typical spoilt child, tzh tzh tzh … I also want to become one of them, sitting doing nothing, just wait for money to fall from sky (remember how arrogant was Proton salesmen during the 90s when Proton launched Wira model?Ya, those were the proud days of Proton) and crying for even more when it is raining!

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  • haroldz (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 5:54 pm

    There is no way proton goin to bankrupt n close shop.
    “it is a national pride”–>said the politician.
    ask him wot car he own…hypocrite!!
    the rakyat r easy to influence during general election so making them believe proton still good is ‘no sweat/kacang/senang gila/’ for G.
    until some1 come up with REAL anti proton car campaign with stickers n internet forums, we can only complaint.

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  • 2ST (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 6:50 pm

    Shutdown both, perodua and proton.end of story.
    malaysian cant make own car in term of err…real car.

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  • wong (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 8:09 pm

    hahaha when comes to proton topics, i notice a lot of experts in technology,economics design,critics , i notice that malaysians are becoming very clever and some always very angry, i,m just a happy proton owner!!!Cheers

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  • nizam80 (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 8:10 pm

    thecrash said,
    July 20, 2007 @ 4:35 pm

    “Basic – rear drum brake
    1.6MT Solid —– 45,350
    1.6AT Solid —– 48,350
    1.6MT Metallic — 45,800
    1.6AT Metallic — 48,800

    Medium – airbag, rear disc brake,foldable RR seat, fog lamp,mp3, rear spoiler
    1.6MT Metallic — 49,800
    1.6AT Metallic — 52,800

    High – Captor, airbag, abs, mp3, rear disc brake,foldable seat, fog lamp, safetint, rear spoiler
    1.6AT Metallic — 55,800

    All inclusive insurance, EWP, first aid kit, safety triangle”

    __________________________________________________________________________

    thecrash, what r u trying to post here? Is this the price of the new upcoming Proton Persona?

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  • The Unicons (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 8:20 pm

    Well, remember even foreign company such as Ford (to name one) also doing badly. However, people are just keep quite and let them to the work. Let them improve their quality problem and financial problem. Selling the Aston Martin, Jaguar and Land Rover. Volvo not in the list yet.

    So, just let Proton do thier works. This senator thought Perodua should remain the sole producer of national cars as they have shown more success in selling cars compared to Proton. Does he knows what is car assembler and car producer? Currently Proton = car assembler and Perodua = car producer OR Proton = car producer and Perodua = car assembler. I think this senator should go back to school.

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  • LittleFire85 (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 10:46 pm

    Well are u saying that P1 will sell lotus? LOL! since u say Ford is selling off his others company. But i think u forget 1 thing, Ford money is loan by G n bank.. P1 money is GIVEN by G from PEOPLES MONEY! This is the DIFFERENT! LOAN N GIVEN! Ford have to sell it to clear its debt!

    Anyway i agree neo2, The new subaru impreza 2.0L also sell at RM60k (US$17k) only.. If sell in Malaysia like this, WAJA die liau loo..

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  • Joe Ooi (Member) on Jul 20, 2007 at 11:54 pm

    Prem3377 said,
    July 20, 2007 @ 3:51 pm

    sorry bout my grammar and spelling in da post above…was typing kinda fast cause i am at work…hope its understandable..haha
    ——————
    Wah, at work but talk crap in internet! Go back to work and cut your salary! Ha, ha, ha, ……….. keh, keh, keh, ………

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  • Prem3377 (Member) on Jul 21, 2007 at 1:22 am

    neo2,

    i do understand what you trying to say..and if you read in each an every previous post of proton before this..i m always saying the same thing…its not proton or even the management…it the G!!!and people involved in it…maybe mr P who said proton can become an assembler might get some cut if proton become an assembler…proton was going on a right track…and it was not meant to be a jaguh kampung…otherwise our ex pm wont buy lotus or force petronas to sponsor formula or even build sepang…proton was targeted for europe and australia..then asian countries…but nothing work as planned!!thats where the problem started!!always remember proton waja was our 1st ever national car..so mistakes and quality can be forgiven but then dr M left…all wanna a piece of proton!!some couldnt make enough they even make naza as a notional car!!perodua is over priced!!!but people is buying it because it a toyota!!if perodua were to produce their own car..i bet it will be similar to proton story!!the politician do control all G companies…if they leave proton alone and let it manage itself they wont be losing money or producing low quality cars…they can choose own vendor who produce good parts and not forcing proton to choose the vendor and sum1 will make money out of it…dr M insisted the national car should be the G official car..so politician can have a feel of rakyats pain..but lately all the 7 series and s class is being used again!!so if you dont have a good leader and good politicians no matter how many proton like company in malaysia opens its not going to make any difference!!!!even our sole electric supplier lose money..something wic is almost impossible…now after being asked many question they manage to make 175% profit!!!so what were they doing when they lost 29billion??then it was our airlines..then lately proton…questions is being asked now…sooner or later it will be answered…i will be happy if proton comes out with good model and acceptable quality..cause i prefer my country making the money compared to a japanese or european country!!proton please come up with good product soon…we cant wait any longer!!

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  • ingolstadt (Member) on Jul 21, 2007 at 3:19 am

    I can’t believe there are still people saying Proton’s good because we can’t buy any ‘good’ cars with the price of Waja.

    THE REASON THEY ARE EXPENSIVE IS BECAUSE PROTON IS UP AND RUNNING.

    Camry’s production cost is way cheaper than Waja’s by the sheer economies of scale it has.

    Proton’s existence is to reduce the trade deficit? Then how bout Perodua? Last check, Perodua saves us more than Proton does if it were this issue, and if Proton were to get lost, Perodua could sell more, at cheaper prices and we can save more.

    Yeah, I agree Perodua rebadges cars, but at least they built it decently. Proton having sudden collaborations with Mitsu, then Citroen, then talking with GM, Peugeot, then back to VW — Just pisses me off…

    As if they really want this kuih potong.

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  • wong (Member) on Jul 21, 2007 at 4:26 am

    kuih potong is good, locally made..maybe can cheer u up a bit,i know the feeling of getting pissed off..really bad..hey the good news is, u can buy secondhand camry which is much cheaper! u can even get a bmw for less than 60k and still damn good. if u don’t like proton don,t buy ..BY THE WAY where can i get a kuih potong,want to share it with my family..to much western and japanese food already

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  • PTAllTheBest (Member) on Jul 21, 2007 at 5:44 am

    politicians like to talk so much. always talk…talk..talk…
    dun turn into an assembler. just close shop, bungkus. scrap NAP also.

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  • wong (Member) on Jul 21, 2007 at 11:49 am

    in the early 70s,japanese cars are called tin milo,slow coach and many more names,europe car is every where,Ford capri,cosair,cortina, escorts,the list goes on…but japanese cars are fuel savers,look at the first honda civic,datsun(now nissan),toyota,etc they progress, the first suzuki was really small and a laughing stock but look at it now, Japanese car makers dont give up easily and now they are on par and some better than europes,CLOSE SHOP is certaintly NOT their style

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  • Isamu (Member) on Jul 21, 2007 at 8:29 pm

    Mr Senator,

    With due respect, Perodua have always been technically an assembler only, at least until now. Even though they do have their own design and development activities locally, the sort of stuff that they do only can positively differentiate them from other assemblers. Being “more-than-an-assembler” do not escalate them to a real/full automaker’s status. In fact, they are still a far cry away from being an automaker. I would love to see them shake away that “beautician” image. A real/full automaker can decide and do things on their own, have their own chief engineers who can decide locally without too much influences from chief engineers from the parent company.

    A cook that can cook up good food based on another chef’s recipe is still only a good cook. Using nasi lemak as an example, if a cook in Menglembu decides to localise his nasi lemak with Menglembu groundnuts and ikan bilis from the waters of Perak, does it make him/her a real chef? A real chef will always think out of the box try to re-invent the nasi lemak, maybe with something else other than coconut milk, another type of rice be it brown or white.

    I’m not saying that Perodua cooks bad food. Kudos to them, they cook up some really good food, in fact..!! It’s just that the whole point of Mr Senator’s statement which points out that the country do not need two automakers.

    Turning to Proton, they started out as a Malaysian cook (with an aim to be a top chef). Along the way of learning from a top Japanese chef, something cropped up and their relations turn sour. Then the Japanese chef decided that the Malaysian cook won’t be getting top recipes, even if the Malaysian cook wants to pay a premium for them. They parted ways and the Malaysian cook decided to try to be its own chef. The Malaysian cook soon came out with a few good recipes which uses a lot of local ingredients. They are now officially a real Malaysian chef. It has been selling their good food but customers keep complaining that the taste are inconsistent. Sometime too bland, sometimes too hot, sometimes too salty and sometimes too sour. The Malaysian chef failed to find the root cause of its problems.

    Finally, the Malaysian chef decided that in order to win back its customers, it has to learn from another top chef. There are no local chef that are good enough to guide and teach the Malaysian chef. They looked around and they found an American chef and a top German chef that are interested in guiding it to survival and success.

    The American chef looks to be a bad option. Afterall, its restaurant itself are doing badly and its closing a lot of its kitchens domestically. On the other hand, the top German chef is somewhat successful. Its food are selling well although profits are not too high and most importantly, it has some very good and popular dishes.

    Along the way of trying to find a master to guide them, the Malaysian chef has met a few jokers. These local jokers do not even know how to cook but they claim that they know how to make the Malaysian chef a better chef. One of them even claimed that the Malaysian chef’s real problem is that its waiters and waitresses do not know how to sell the food. What a joke..!!

    It seems like the only logical choice for the Malaysian chef is to learn from the top German chef. The only problem now is the price to pay will be high. Of course the somewhat-successful German chef will not give out its top recipes and experiences for peanuts. It wants to have a good shareholding of the Malaysian cook’s restaurant. The Malaysian chef does realise that the only way for survival is to sell part of or even a big chunk of its restaurant to the German chef. It also has to start cooking German dishes in its kitchens in order to learn. This will effectively make the Malaysian chef only a Malaysian cook again, but the Malaysian chef does not mind that..!! But then, some ultra-nationalists with partisan views do not want the German to control the Malaysian restaurant. Those people failed to realise that the German chef is one of the only few top chefs in the world with proven track record of turning around bad restaurants. The German chef has successfully controlled at least three other foreign restaurants (one Spanish, one Czech and another Italian) and taught the restaurants chef on how to be a good chef.

    Why should the Malaysian chef be a just a normal cook that cooks so many random dishes from around the world using very little local ingredients when it can be a disciple of the top German chef. By cooking random dishes, it will not learn anything. By being the German chef’s disciple, it can learn to cook German dishes and after some time, the German chef will definitely guide it to prepare some new Malaysian dishes. Afterall, the German cook helped the Spanish, the Czech and the Italian chefs to prepare better Spanish, Czech and Italian dishes..!!

    So, I think Mr Senator should leave the Malaysian chef alone and really stick to more important issues like crime and rapidly escalating living costs and PLEASE leave this to the professionals. The Malaysian chef has been willing to be a cook again. It wants to learn from the German chef. Please let the Malaysian chef decide its own fate or at least look at the best option that is to go German..!!

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  • wong (Member) on Jul 21, 2007 at 9:17 pm

    well said mr isamu ,jack of all trades master of none is not the german way and thats why survived from ‘beetle model’ to now the great GOLFer, i’m goind to get some kuih Potong right now …

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  • GlowJo (Member) on Jul 22, 2007 at 12:37 am

    Isamu,
    I think the senator hidden agenda is ‘to let proton be the assembler’ so that he can form a company to be proton new vendor since the current vendors are not capable, with the new owner he can easily apply to be new proton vendor.

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  • GlowJo (Member) on Jul 22, 2007 at 12:40 am

    Wong, tapau for me kuih Potong two slices aaaa… I pay you later

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  • PTAllTheBest (Member) on Jul 22, 2007 at 6:32 am

    at least they close shop 1st and then let G go and figure out how to revive our car industry. as long as p1 here we will not have a good day with good car

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  • wong (Member) on Jul 23, 2007 at 1:40 am

    i’m having a good day with my proton thank you,any car will be good if well mantained, my bmw too is almost mess up by an unqualified mechanic,i was lucky that a generous friend recommended another and its doing very well now..i dont think theres any bad car…

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  • romeo_misteri (Member) on Sep 05, 2007 at 4:00 pm

    erm..i just wanna say that..proton is built for us, malaysian. proton is now truly car manufacturer..remember when perodua advertised myvi as my vision, my inspiration, malaysian vision, malaysian inspiration and so on..kepala otak dia..it should be javi..because it’s truly japanese vision and inspiration..look at indonesia..dahaitsu sales it as sirion..which is completely the same with our myvi..if we track back the proton history..we can be proud as malaysian that proton now can stand alone..the issue in making proton to produce more better car is to send its engineers overseas to learn foreign technology..it has to create car that satisfy our taste..not to create out-to-date design..it has to got more creativity and technology in making better car..it doesn’t have to be a copy cat like perodua does (copy, edit and produce)..the fact proton produces car that not high spec as foreign car is because of its ‘for malaysian’..just count how many rich people among us that can buy expenssive car? so, to make the price low to suit our salary, it has to lower the cost..and if it wants to lower the cost, it has to make the spec low too..that’s why proton’s car is cheap, affordable by most malaysian but low in spec..nowadays, we have to pay more for better technology..remember that..if you all here are very clever in bussines and car manufacturing, why don’t you all work at proton? help it to grow steadily..save your money and then buy proton company..develope it to be a world class car manufacturer..don’t hina it..but help it..for proton, you got to hire more young engineers who can create more up-to-date design..don’t just hanging on atuk2 and ayam2 lama engineers..and don’t let politicians kacau your bussines..(to be continue)

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