Govt gives green light to foreign control in Proton

The online business daily with more little birds than you can ever imagine The Edge Daily – has a report quoting unnamed sources that the Malaysian government has given the go ahead on giving foreign parties 51% control in Proton’s manufacturing arm, with the keyword here being control. The online daily also reported that talks with Volkswagen AG have resumed as of last month. Proton is also in talks with two other companies – PSA Peugeot Citroen of France and Chery of China.

The potential arrangement between Proton and it’s foreign partner would be similiar to Perodua’s setup with Daihatsu, with distribution under local control but manufacturing under the foreign partner’s control.

With the government having finally realising that pride cannot get into the way of doing business properly, the question is now – is it too late?

Source

Related Readings:
Proton to produce MPV and SUV with Chery
Proton and PSA Peugeot Citroen sign letter of intent

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Paul Tan

After dabbling for years in the IT industry, Paul Tan initially began this site as a general blog covering various topics of personal interest. With an increasing number of readers paying rapt attention to the motoring stories, one thing led to another and the rest, as they say, is history.

 

Comments

  • Ralliace (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 4:41 pm

    Hope its for the betterment of Proton and their new foreign control. Hopefully no one gets short changed here with this deal.

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  • honda_driver (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 4:45 pm

    wonder when we will see some news on 100% confirmation of this…?

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  • tanasi (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 4:48 pm

    I sincerely hope that they can work out a win-win deal between the parties involved. Would this mean cheaper and better car for the average Malaysians?

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  • auctioncenter2u (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 4:58 pm

    Finally…finally…..sold to foreigner.

    When the company is SINKing and Someone wish to give you a hand, what should you do? For Sure you will agree right.

    Now, VW will be pressured on HOW to keep up the production volume for PROTON and Proton management will sit down to see and learn how those MATSALLEH can solve the problem for them. As what I am expected lah….dude

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  • whatsoever (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 5:02 pm

    I already sick with all the proton's news. so this time will just wait until something is sign off.

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  • burn (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 5:25 pm

    To answer your question Paul, it's a no brainer that this is long overdue! but something this (potentially) good can never be too late!

    So you think we're gonna be getting proton passat? Proton golf gti? the new proton beetle? or even proton TT and proton a6?

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  • cyder300 (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 5:28 pm

    I do hope that it is true and Proton can be saved from themselves and years of dumb dwn misdirection. We really want to see Proton do well cuz our own auto ind will also be affected if they go dwn.

    If this goes thru and VW can take ctrl, ppl should realize this is a God send second chance to redeem themselves and be a major player in the region. God bless us all.

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  • rosdi (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 5:46 pm

    Proton Golf GTI!.. yey!!… yeaaay!!… it is time to trade in my kancil!

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  • drM (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 6:04 pm

    To enjoy or to despair?

    Well, the good thing first. I and many Malaysians hope this will bring the best out of Proton and with a foreign style workmanship, there will be no more nonsense bad quality and horrible designs. Way to go. And, hoping the next Perdana V6/V8 will eventually kick start everything!

    The bad thing is, Proton maybe turn into a workhorse and will be the stage where the foreign partner will take advantage of our infrastructure and other capabilities for their own sake. We heard horrible things such as job cuttings and limited access to partners technology and we dont want that to be happen in the Proton merger.

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  • aesthari (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 6:06 pm

    The Proton badge already stinks, but I do have hopes for a cheap Golf GTI or maybe even a C4.

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  • u5 (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 6:13 pm

    51% control of the company? does it mean foreign companies have acquired 51% of proton shares? if that is so, wouldnt it mean that proton no longer belongs to local? … if that is so, i think it would be the breakthrough in proton's sales n advancement in its technology .. great move Finally!

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  • motorhead (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 6:20 pm

    Hahaha.. i said it before. SOLD!!!.. but not yet.. yeah rite, a bit too late may be… rugi saja gov oso cannot tahan one!!!… if continue like this, p1 have no future….

    Sell la for 20 million RM, maybe some china's company wud consider.. hahahaha!!!

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  • Hikaru (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 6:29 pm

    Proton has finally opened its door to its potential suitor. On the picture as a whole, i think to get a foreigner to bailout Proton isn't that bad of an idea instead of using taxpayer's money. The rececent slump is the car consumer market must be a catalyst for proton to take the wise and prudent step to join up with someone. However, i have a strange feeling that if the arrangement is going to be like Perodua/Daihatsu/Toyota, Proton seems to have become a 2nd class citizen in terms of car manufacturing i.e. not really creating new cars but merely making car from other ppl's design. Of course the former was tried and tested without any success. But do remember that this is a one way ticket for our national pride. Maybe that's why they were so reluctant in the first place.

    Nonetheless, VW platforms are known to be good and a keenly priced Jetta would surely compete againts the likes of City and Vios. Lupo as Savvy Gen-2 perhaps? GTI anyone?

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  • aksMs (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 6:35 pm

    It's just a nod. How true is this? Only the talk has resume. Let's not jump into any conclusion until there is a black and white agreement. But if they are really selling, I think Chery will be out of the picture.

    Looking at VW and PSA Peugeot Citroen, I'm pretty sure there will be no rebadging. You can only look forward for platform sharing, which is better. So, don't dream about any Proton Passat or Golf. In ain't never gonna happen. I don't think so…

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  • Kaboda (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 6:41 pm

    I honestly feel that Proton could not be run any worst or be in any worst situation that it is in now. Its about time we let people who know and have been involved in the car industry since WWII to actually come in and clean up the crap. And thank god for who ever is willing to do that.

    I cant see any negatives from here lets just hope this goes through.

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  • bolo (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 6:47 pm

    When the VW talk was still on. VW did not want management control. They only want vendors and supplier control and this turned out to be the stumbling block for the deal. This time round, is it going to be ceding management control to foreign partners but retaining vendor and supplier control?

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  • kody (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 6:51 pm

    wahlaueh….

    halo everybody… P1 onsale…. RM1…with debts included…. sell to anybody… hahaha… what you will get in this trade… only the factory & man…. cash…sorry… inside others pocket already :)

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  • waimak (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 7:02 pm

    51% rightfully gives a controlling role to the foreigner but there are many ways of keeping control from Proton's side. This have been done in many corporate organizations.

    I think its not too late, but whatever it is, bottomline many want to see a more successful Proton than it is today with this new direction – better quality cars, more choices and sellable models.

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  • KL-ATR (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 7:16 pm

    I say it's about time. Proton has been rolling on taxpayer's money for far too long. I don't understand why are so many people worry about some foreign party coming in and "take advantage" of the so called infrastructure we have. It's because of such kiasu attitute that allowed Thailand to overtake us as the Automobile manufacturing nation in ASEAN, which could have been US if the government was not so busy trying to "protect" Proton. Of course, there are some who still think that having a 100% Malaysian owned company is worth more than the Billions we're losing every year and the thousands of work opportunity lost.

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  • protonGL (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 8:35 pm

    LOTUS VW owned????

    "handling by VW"

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  • rosdi (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 8:46 pm

    hoi friends!… 51% stake in the manufacturing arm only lah!! not the entire proton…

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  • pycazu (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 8:49 pm

    It definitely a welcome move! Late but what need to be done.

    But I really doubt it.. With so many short-sighted politicians around in the stake, shouting here there about Malay pride, NAP, National pride, doubt they will be supportive on this…

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  • tokmoh (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 8:58 pm

    Ya lor, bt 51% is still a lot.

    If VW rly interested, I rly want them to make my love cheaper- Golf GTi ^^

    I tink its nt too late. China cars are laughed at just a few years ago, bt now I tink more ppl are aware of their presence and beginning to see them as a threat. Those are just the Chinese, apatah lagi Mat Salleh di German…..

    Just like Lamborghini. All their cars are 10 tonnes of style w/o substance. They can easily be outpaced by Ferrari, they are hardly even reliable, in fact Jeremy Clarkson even say its impossible for anyone to buy a Lambor unless if you're Rod Stewart wearing leapordskin pants, asking aroun if you're sexy. He admits Lambor are gud lookin, and produce gud sound, bt other than that, its crap.

    Then the Germans (Audi) came to the rescue. The result: Gallardo, a Lamborghini w/o all the crazy bits off. Then it gets even better: Gallardo Spyder, Jeremy Clarkson's current favourite car, a Lamborghini that everyone can finally buy. Nt sure abt the new Murcielago LP640 though…..it shud be great, even by Jeremy Clarkson's std.

    So if Audi can transform the Lamborghini from a dying car company, I tink VW can do it for our Proton too. Go VW!!!!!! Help our Proton!!!!

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  • NoToLowQuality (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 9:34 pm

    good news… but will this action require our Former Primier to approve? u know la… he later shout here n there questioning everyone then how?

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  • trav_da_man (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 10:26 pm

    Volkswagen actually a savior to not one but a num of car manufacturers. the most famous case study is Skoda. Skoda was a laughing stock 10 years back until VW bought it and it has changed drastically. Now it was a top 10 brand in europe, being a budget car with Volkswagen quality for the Volkwagen Group in Europe.

    Now as VW needs to prenetrate SEA n malaysia badly, it needs Proton as Proton has the manufacturing facility it needs. Since Proton is dying badly, we will hope to see another Skoda model for Asia.

    Rumours mentioned that Perodua's MD will be possiblity Proton new Chairman, replacing the current old fool. With Syed Zainal and this guy, this will drive Proton like how they did in perodua. Great move!

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  • freeze (Member) on Nov 09, 2006 at 10:37 pm

    Notice that Proton shares going up a lot since yesterday. Perhaps it is now time to invest.

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  • Prem3377 (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 12:39 am

    i dunno y almost every1 is so happy about proton being controled by sum foreigners…just because u hopin to get proton gti…passat n etc u feel its a gud move…1st dun dream of gettin their technology..if they give thier technology…c how skoda cars r designed?so ugly…..they will neva let u hv a gud design….ppl in skoda designed such beautiful concepts dun tell me then can create betta lookin cars?n our country is only consider a developin country…even their imported car lack of so many technology here…so future protons will b similar here..maybe air bags n abs mite b standard..rest..we only can dream of….audi gets all their latest technology cause vw uses their facilities wic is 1 of the best in da world..they co develop…our technology is not as advance as them..v can only co develop buttons n switches..tats about it…2nd…we will get better cars then wat v hv now…but in term of development and all v will neva grow…v r goin to b merely assemblers..n tats about it…da effort taken to build satria neo,savvy,gen2 and waja all will just b gone..rome was not build in a day…v r just 25 years old…n started developin our very own products around 1997…tats less than 10 years..wat u xpect???bmw standard??or toyota?or honda??early 80's toyota was worst than wat proton is…u hv to give time..no carmakers r perfect….v r makin an effort…proton losing money n etc is a fake statement….its all political…when u dun like sum who is gud..n wanna topple him…u hv to find a gud reason…so tats how they did it..who will sell sum tat they bought for million for rm1???mv agusta was in frozen dept..so da dept wont b shown in da accounts..so how would tat affect proton??givin foreigner control our product is pure stupidity…v can collaborate wif them n co devolop wif other car makers but not by lettin them control us…v wont learn…i neva tawt i will see so many selfish malaysians…just bcause u guys wan a proton gti,passat,luppo and etc..u dun mind givin up ur national pride…shame on u ppl…

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  • maibatsu_thunder (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 12:47 am

    I don't think it will be so easy lah. Now got four wives – Mitsubishi, PSA, VW, Chery and the son Lotus. How lah.

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  • StingRayINC (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 1:01 am

    Sigh what a waste, now only they realize that they need foreign assistance in management. They should have give it to VW earlier, not citroen. Citroen are known for their "not so reliable" performance, cheapo interior; althogh they've build a very nice C-Matisse, but still they are not so good in their sales. And most of all, french engine is hard to maintain as mechanics are not so familiar with te french narrow engine bay. I gotta say, when VW approach Proton, is just like a saint or angel come and land a helping hand to Proton. What to do, stupid still want to act smart……..sigh.

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  • protonGL (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 1:19 am

    how bout existing platform,

    if they use it,

    itd be, VW SATRIAGH, WV GEN TUNG, VW WAJAICH,

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  • ian (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 1:43 am

    Having owned a 92 Saga, all news related to Proton I've completely stopped reading. This news piqued my interest a bit, but until an actual deal is done we'd just have to wait and see (again).

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  • fookeatmin1989 (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 2:48 am

    Yay…good news for all Malaysians…

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  • tiredguy (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 3:10 am

    thumbs up proton, hope this will help you moving forward.

    if only proton didn't sign so many secrecy agreement, msian would know what you all about.

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  • honda_driver (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 3:12 am

    the whole thing about proton isn't so simplistic.. i am sure its never been so easy as just saying, "i wanna work with you…etc" and it happens. There are so many parties involved being the national car company.. and a very healthy does of politics as well.. I think we shouldn't be blaming "PROTON" directly, but the people holding the strings from the shadows.

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  • SonyEricsson (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 3:48 am

    Why everyone sound so happy when 51% of stake being sell to foreigner.What IF the share are selling to Malaysian Chinese.

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  • chenyl (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 3:59 am

    I really hope is VW taking control not chery lets keep fingers cross

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  • RM (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 4:02 am

    The comments posted by the masses is just utterly shocking. There is simply no letting up and rightly so cos' Proton have been lame ducks. They know the problems, the quality concerns, the poor after sales service, the weak distribution set up, rogue dealers (horrible brand ambassadors) – the list just goes on and on. What have they done to mend things ?

    Proton is a national asset, so proclaimed. Truth be said, I don't think the custodians care about Proton ? Surely, if they did they would have resolved the quality problems (this ain't cutting edge tech), removed the pasar-malam sales image, made sure that undelivered/unsold stocks not be dumped in a make-shift open yard. Again I pose the question, do "they" really care about Proton ?

    Proton has a captive market, an established distributing arm. Yes, its market share is shrinking but it still sells more than 150,000 cars a year. Isn't this enough incentive for a would be suitor to come in ? why then is management control on the negotiating table ?

    If you ask me, a tie-up with Cherry is more likely. VW and PSA will squeeze harder. Cherry's the upcoming company that's been allegedly stealing designs and fighting industrial action. Proton has similarities with Cherry who too in the rush of making quick money, staked their reputation and brand image.But Proton be warned, Cherry angered GM, the world's largest auto maker.

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  • szw (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 4:18 am

    cherry ?

    don make sth worst even worst pls

    vw is da best choice .

    we can get proton made tt

    n proton quality will be way better than perodua

    muahahaha !

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  • mystvearn (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 4:31 am

    Quote

    "#drM said,

    November 9, 2006 @ 10:04 am

    To enjoy or to despair?

    Well, the good thing first. I and many Malaysians hope this will bring the best out of Proton and with a foreign style workmanship, there will be no more nonsense bad quality and horrible designs. Way to go. And, hoping the next Perdana V6/V8 will eventually kick start everything!

    The bad thing is, Proton maybe turn into a workhorse and will be the stage where the foreign partner will take advantage of our infrastructure and other capabilities for their own sake. We heard horrible things such as job cuttings and limited access to partners technology and we dont want that to be happen in the Proton merger."

    I think this has the most sense after reading thru the entire post.

    1. Lambo is a supercar maker, so job cutting or replacement at Lambo would be suicidal. We can see now that Audi (VW son) already helped themselves with the the new sports car, which is basicly a sensible version of the wacky supercar.

    2. Since manufacturing is being controlled by foreign people, would the new owners cut jobs? VW is quite rich, so maybe they will let Malaysians experiment with the design for few cars, but PSA is a very very lean company, and their design team is better than ours, they will not hesitate in reinstating their design team.

    3.If P1 choose Cherry, than its a suicide mission. What would do people think when going with China based brands….

    4. This will give more ammo to Tun M to fire the gov. After constant firing, govt already want to "reconsider" some projects from Tun M era. Tun is right, the way I see it, advisor's is to advice, if cannot accept advice than why is it there in the first place. Who else can talk to pak lah.

    5. So if new things does come thru, then there are only 12 car manufactures in the world now? P1 was using some commercial back saying proud to be one of 13 manufacture or something…

    6. Its never too late, but then the way P1 is rolling out Savvy and Satria Neo, the direction taken looks good, will all this hard work go to waste? This is one way to give green ink to the bank books but what about further into the future. Why can't P1 import Toyota's one platform multi cars, makes sense in cutting cost, but then those overpilling of stocks is a problem. Immediate result of a foreign partner would be people will not buy P1 cars waiting for new models, and P1 has to give tons of goodies like free service for 3 years just to remove stock.

    Anyone heard this news on mainstream TV? Or is this a hush hush thing

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  • Joe Ooi (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 7:15 am

    Wake up: P1 is weak, tragic and laughable!

    There are many commentators have accused P1 of being tragic, weak, opportunist and totally lacking corporate social responsibility (CSR) toward consumers and tax payers is an open secret notoriously known to the market. P1 incapable of coming out with quality and competitively price cars are a matter of fact since its inception and roll out the first Saga in 1985.

    P1 had indulged in laughable behavior over the past few months as they attempted to sign many LOIs and MOUs as try to present it as the future collaboration that will yield good future in term of make profit and come out with new model. But the true fact is P1 was being "pushed the every party who enter the MOU/LOI around" and that make P1 credibility has been “sorely damaged".

    The big question is – If P1 pushed around this much before they even conduct feasibility study or demonstrate genuine intention on strategic partnership, what are P1 going to be like as an automotive player? Couple with crappy NAP to serve selfish interest, its have helped define the new automotive battleground which is in long term, has detrimental effect on the healthy long term growth for local market yet do not help P1 for the next that determine its long term survival – export market.

    Recent MITI/NAP assault on foreigner (Geely) intend to set up assembly plant here with 20:80 (20% for local market and 80% for export) and not allowed to assemble 1.6L and below car drew an immediate response from the foreigner (FDI) to invest in other country (Indonesia). This policy (perhaps “dirty tactic”) was "vacuous and insubstantial" and construe as P1 could not stand for a fight in its own turf. This “stone age” steps risked potential confrontation when our products export to other country. Toyota van (Hiace) case with Thailand is a good example, our Minister from MITI who are complaining and calling for Thai to cuts tax in line with CEPT – 5% yet implement non-tariff measures like AP and slap ED up to 120% when ASEAN CKD units export to our country!

    This minister tried "being pushed around everyone”. She told Thai to reduce CEPT to 5% but expected Thai cannot relate to the AP and ED in negotiation – “Utterly incredible one-way ticket” negotiation – treat and expected Thai side to accept what they said just like local consumers have to accept what NAP/P1 doing. "It just becoming international joke and laughing stock. Expect oversea people to think of P1 as being strong by adopting “pushed all over the place” tactic and expected other to extend leverage and give way!

    She is exaggerating our P1 as “national icon” and it is tragic that P1 feels that in order to prove that they can make cars they wants and do it by sacrifice consumers well being. Worst is P1 making this up because they want to appear tough and that's a tragic approach. In true new spirit of corporate social responsibility (CSR), "G will never be able to help P1 just by passing more laws to protect it. P1 need a “revolution” in innovation, R & D, and social responsibility toward consumers and tax payers."

    Just to ponder what future hold for P1? When P1 see challenges to overcome, they suppose do not just ask what government and consumer can do and be “patriotic” to protect it. P1 must ask what they can do, what they can contribute to the society. That is what we mean by corporate social responsibility. P1 is under pressure to buck up and truly improve to counter consumers’ perception that P1 is "all talk cock and no substance".

    P1 should absolutely look into strategic partnership and overseas market as its long term survival – economic competitiveness. Current practice of implementing NAP and other protective measures was a great mistake. G should think again about current laws and counter productive measures in auto sector as it would look a complete imbecile, and in fact it does. This required the calls for ED and Sales Tax at least to be slashed so as in line with FTAs or “market rates” if not totally abolished.

    Taxation is necessary to generate government revenue to implement fiscal policy and funding expenditure on public services. The government has the social obligations towards citizen and redistribution of wealth to help the poorest and give people a chance to climb up the ladder is absolutely right. However, the notion that current NAP and other protective measure was going to make P1 good, then P1 would have become world class player by now after more than 20 year? But the sad fact is P1 still in limbo and need citizens’ hard earn blood and sweat money to support it hullabaloo existence!

    P1 will never improve and become world class player by asking G passing more protective laws! There is no lack of policies and out pouring of public fund in the past and present to help and nurture P1. But getting ready for competition is like building a house – “preparing the ground” by start from foundation to the roof. Unfortunately, P1 still tend to be vacuous and insubstantial in it adventure. The fastest P1 get out of business or taken over by foreigner is better. Because of the oldman brainchild idea gone so awry, it is better to bite the bullet, cut the losses from accumulating as it is economically not viable. We are developing country. We can’t afford to dump so much money (i.e. “subsidize” the price or dumping price) in developed country (e.g. UK and Australia) for the sake of P1 car saleable at the expanse of local consumer wellbeing but looking after rich country’s people welfare. This country is belong to future generation and we just “borrow” from them. We can’t left debt, liability and hopelessness to future generation but wealth, opportunity and bright future!

    GOOD LUCK TO P1 FOR FINALLY OPEN THEIR EYE ON POSIBILITY OF FOREIGNER PARTICIPATION IN THE FORM OF MAJORITY SHARE IN AT LEAST MANUFACTURING ARM. LET PRAY HARD THAT THIS WILL COME TRUE SO THAT THE CONSUMERS CAN SEE THE LIGHT AT THE END OF TUNNEL – RE-CLAIM BACK THEIR RIGHT OF “FREE TO CHOOSE” UNDER OPEN MARKET RATHER THAN “FORCED TO CHOOSE” UNDER CRAPPY NAP.

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  • protonGL (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 8:00 am

    AFTER take over

    PRICE? say at the SAME class ,…….. coparetively ,made in thailand or surround is cheaper, so probally just look from my HONDA FREELOOK (2 wheeled)

    PARTS, do no yet?

    I think they are ment to SHIP…………WESTWARDDD!!!

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  • topgunthang (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 10:27 am

    hehe. they can still 'distribute' the defective cars for local market what.

    Prem3377

    not shame on us consumers. its shame on proton and those who made the choices in its management and business dealings.

    foreingn company having 49% or 51% stake in proton doesnt mean squat to most msian citizens. proton profits you get nothing. the lose some money, you lose even more money. if giving them 2% more shares can help local manufacturers maintain a healthy long lasting profit then why not. that is if the parties invovled in proton parts and assembly are not solely owned by the same few people.

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  • Prem3377 (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 11:01 am

    joe ooi..even if ur comments r gud and full of fact plus complicated…the basic fact is none of our country products or government companies makes money unless u give them free way of makin money like petronas…petrol equal to free money!!!tenaga nasional sole company who gives us electric..losing money?blame who?competition is high is it???cost is high is it??n who become da victim??v malaysian!!!all our companies lose money even witout competition…so wat u xpect from proton???its all political and super poor management..petronas have their own stake in proton..petronas have a gud engine family in hand…y dont they give it to proton???it was fitted in many protons..from waja to satria…but y cant it make production???the reason is..some people dun like proton or dr M project to b sucessful…as simple as tat…MAS losin money..y??when a small company like air asia can make money y cant mas??because tis companies simply take in workforce..pay them gud salary but none do their work properly…its our attitude too..malaysian wan everyting to b easy…give a waja..u wan bmw quality..give a satria..u wan a golf gti..give u a savvy u wan it to b lupo standard….there was 5 generation of golf for wat golf is now…4 gen of learning man!!!u xpect proton to just learn from just 1st gen of waja???u must b joking!!!u just read 90% of da post…all of them wan it to b easy..all wan golf to b proton gti..A6 to b perdana replacement…u tink them r so stupid to give 60 years of r&d for us for free ar?or we r too stupid and lazy to just build castle in da sky??25 years is nothing in motor industry k..dun complain on everything proton does..blame da politics and management of da country n us too..not proton alone…we hv to wrk hard to be like rest..not hope for help frm other so tat u can drive a rebadge golf gti..dun look for easy ways…wat joe ooi said..leave all gud ting for our future genertion..how man?by lettin wv continue being rich n eat our money?tat how is it??v wont gain much n learn much…so future generatio will be as lazy as us…wanna drive al rebadge car…we malaysian neva voice out anything besides tis blogs..includin me..but now da most importin ting is not proton….its us…water,electric,petrol n u name it..everything has increased…xcept our salary…so even if they rebadge golf…dun dream of buyin it if u r any average wage earner…n wat r v doin bout it??just bloggin n releasin our tension…hahaha….i m so unhappy wif everyting happening recently….just need a channel 2 release my unhappiness..thank Paul for creatin such blog…u r helpin alot!!!

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  • topgunthang (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 11:02 am

    correction. actually you lose money regardless whether proton profits or not.

    with the information more freely accessible we can now judge how proton actually performs in international markets instead of getting fed bleached news and reports by local tv's and newspapers.

    im already not proud of proton long time ago so whether it falls into semi foreign control would not affect my pride towards what i beleive is good to be proud of in malaysia. i beleive proton is rubbish just like lotus and some other companies that they bought so VW or whoever can share in the headache of reviving it. i do hope cherry takes over so both of them can go down together.

    just because it's something done in msia doesnt mean we have to be proud of it. like the johor bahru port city thing to compete against singapore. come on, msia doesnt even have the most important basics to compete against singapore and that is talent. and u can be sure most of our good talent is already on singapore's side or elsewhere in the world. infrastructure anybody can have it as long as you're willing to pay for it. same case as proton. thats billions more down the drain. whatever happened to port klang, west port or watever?

    dont know whether any of you from other states have been to JB before or not. well..good luck in improving that city.

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  • Joe Cole (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 3:57 pm

    Sorry with my bro,Joe Ooi.Please dont take care too much about his comment.I dont know whats wrong with him…Sorry guys…

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  • KL-ATR (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 4:59 pm

    Prem, you're so full of yourself.

    1. NOT every company or products in Malaysia is losing money. Don't make non-factual statements if you don't know what you're talking about.

    2. Take a good look at Pagani and tell me how long it took this car company to make a world class car competing with Ferrari and Porsche? He didn't even have Government money to build his company! Or maybe you should have a close look at the Chinese manufacturers. How many years did it take them to scare the established makers? 25 years and Proton is still a laughing stock. I guess you're very proud of that… or maybe you're working there?

    3. VW will NEVER let Proton build their cars UNTIL their manufacturing quality is up to par. That means you can only dream of a Proton/Golf after 2010. Their 1st task is to ensure the quality of the current range of cars are improved. Is that a bad thing?

    4. Just because one person is not liked, we the Rakyat have to lose money? The reason why so many GLC companies are losing money is a open secret. However, don't think you know the full story. I don't claim to know all but having friends within the circle have provided me with more facts. Malaysia have been lagging behind in the global arena for the past few years, allowing Thailand to improve so much. If the Gov remain to be childish, continue to fight among themselves, Indonesia is gonna overtake us as well. When are you gonna wake up and open your mind? Don't take things at eye level.

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  • Bigjoe (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 5:34 pm

    Proton share price is RM5.70 which is something like 50% discount to NTA compared to about RM10 when Volkswagen made the initial offer. Can a deal be done at this price? Not if Dr. M recover and continue his attack at AAB.

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  • Xoomie (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 6:16 pm

    Hold that orgasmic squerk !

    This "news" was just to stimulate market share & Ploton itself.

    There were no LOI, MOU and VW has not even responded to confirm this.

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  • bobdbuilder (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 6:19 pm

    In any blog, there is always someone who would hijack the tread. Lets ignore that ash hole and move on with the discussion on the topic. As consumer, we only want good quality cars sold not at inflated price. If Proton cannot deliver, let someone do it. Don't hold the consumer hostage. Simple as ABC

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  • Kaboda (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 6:46 pm

    Prem3377 I totally agree you need to learn how to construct a proper sentences first before you can comment on a matter like this. So lets talk Telekom, Tenaga and all those other insitutions. For years and years they have been running as a sole monopoly supply all the telecommunication services and then all the electricity to the entire nation. How do you not make money from when your necessities are supplied by one lousy crap run government owned company. So how are they companies we can compare with as succesful Malaysian operations.

    Perfect example to end all debate is Korea, take a look at Korea or even a trip to South Korea and see what cars are the majority on their roads. Korean cars make up I bet about 75% of the vehicles on the road, working class to the upper rich people drive a Korean car of some sorts and the question is why ?

    I think they also have a scheme like here were their cars are protected but I heard its not that much cheaper than a foreign car. So it came down to choice they chose their own countries car because they are proud of it. They can rely on their own cars it and it was of a quality that can you believe was better than that of the export quality Korean cars. Drive a Proton in the UK or Australia and you wont kena all the nonsense like battery dying after one month or this or that leaking. The fact is they give us crap here and none of us are proud of Proton as a national vehicle. Its been a laughing stock inside and outside of Malaysia for years its about time it gets cleaned up.

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  • Joe Ooi (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 6:51 pm

    Prem3377 said,

    joe ooi..even if ur comments r gud and full of fact plus complicated…the basic fact is none of our country products or government companies makes money unless u give them free way of makin money like petronas…

    ———————————

    Joe Ooi,

    So, below are quote from unanimous e-mail I received that may partly if not wholly answer your argument: –

    Mathematics, Malaysian-style

    "I find it most alarming that Malaysian schools teach our children the wrong things. I mean: can the children really apply what they are taught in school later in life? For example, can you imagine a mathematics question in a recent examination as follows?

    "If an egg costs fifty Sen, and if you buy one-eighth of the egg, how much would you have to pay?" Who in heaven's name will want to buy one-eighth of an egg? The shopkeeper will probably think you are crazy and he will be equally stupid to break the egg and measure one-eighth for you. Yet, this is how they structure the questions in Malaysian schools. Why not pose questions that would be more useful later in life when you go out into the world to earn your living?

    To help Malaysia's Ministry of Education bet to face the realities of life, we are suggesting some questions they could use in our classrooms.

    QUESTION 1

    If your "political related company is awarded a RM150 million government contract, and you make a 20% profit, how much profit would be at the end of the contract period?

    ANSWER (Choose one)

    1. I will not be making a 20% profit as I would have to pay the Minister 10% and Croc/crony 5%.

    2. I would make 30% profit, which is the progress payment I receive, after which I will abandon the project and let the government call for a re-tender.

    3. My company will not make any profit at all as I will siphon out all the profits and show a loss to avoid paying corporate tax.

    QUESTION 2

    If the national petroleum company, Petronas, pays a 5% royalty to Terengganu State and if the amount paid is RM800,000,000 per year, how much should Petronas have in the bank accumulated over the last 25 years?

    ANSWER (Choose one)

    1. Nobody is supposed to know as Petronas need not show its accounts to anyone except the Prime Minister and this information comes under the Official Secrets Act.

    2. Petronas earns only 50% of its petroleum revenue from Terengganu so Petronas' total income accumulated in the banks over 25 years should be

    RM800 billion.

    3. Petronas has nothing accumulated in the bank as all the money has spent bailing out companies and finance mega projects.

    "To be continued"

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  • oversight (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 8:06 pm

    This news only a teaser and just want to attract investor to buy more proton shares. there's no confirmation about it. Proton as always like to tease people with great news and then nothing happen. Proton are so cliche these days.

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  • Joe Ooi (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 8:25 pm

    Joe Cole said,

    “Sorry with my bro,Joe Ooi.Please dont take care too much about his comment.I dont know whats wrong with him…Sorry guys… “

    —————————————

    Ahemm, ……. another “personal attacked” – Joe Cole, look like you want and I will give you “bloody nose”.……………. Sorry to say the following:-

    1. I have done medical check-up and carry out self-assess psychological test before. The doctor finding and certify that I am of sound mind and psychological test indicated that I have relatively “IQ level above average”. So, scientifically, I am of normal person and nothing wrong with me.

    2. So, your statement clearly said that you don’t know what wrong with me …… BUT still “KNOW” to come up with “don’t take care too much about his comment” – A totally self-contradictory accusation.

    3. So, nothing wrong with me as I clarified in item (1) above. Therefore, definitely something very wrong with you as mentioned in item (2).

    CONCLUSION – Neither something wrong with me nor I am failed to convey my message in my comment. But something very wrong with you – your foul and dirty mouth cock talking on all rubbish ……… or Cantonese term it as “Sek-Si-Oo-Fan” (literally means “eating stinking faeces but shitting rice”). Sorry to you that I have to come out with this comment.

    Back to topic – in the VW come in as new partner to P1, it is a blessing to all parties. Be it P1, consumers and the long-term growth for our auto industry as a whole. The only parties who are scare may include but not limited to those “dead wood” in P1 or the croc, AP king, cronies, etc.

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  • mits27 (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 8:37 pm

    I think it is early to say it will owned by vw, we haven't heard any news from vw yet. I still think we probably will not get the top technology from vw, but the quality sure will better than current proton. Still vw quality vs toyota quality, I think toyota still better.

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  • cyborgx (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 9:32 pm

    No, I dont see Proton as "Skoda" in the making. Stop dreaming, this is BolehLand.

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  • Joe Ooi (Member) on Nov 10, 2006 at 9:56 pm

    "The online business daily with more little birds than you can ever imagine The Edge Daily – has a report quoting unnamed sources that the Malaysian government has given the go ahead on giving foreign parties 51% control in Proton’s manufacturing arm, with the keyword here being control."

    —————————

    Joe Ooi, the key word here is being 51% control! That means the party (VW) in the event really take 51% control of P1. Look at the P1 website for investor relations section: –

    http://www.proton.com/about_proton/investor_relat…

    That means G will sale the 51% control stake that are likely come from Khazanah (38.32%), EPF (10.93%) and PNB (6.50%)! Further check shown that currently foreigner own 19.29% while Malaysian own 80.71% of P1 share.

    In the event say VW take 51% controlling stake, that means total foreigner ownership of P1 share will increase to = 51% + 19.29% = 70.29%! and Malaysian left with 29.71%. So, there is no such thing as 51%:49% arrangement?

    So what Xoomie said is highly credible and have a strong basis: –

    “Xoomie said,

    "Hold that orgasmic squerk !

    This “news” was just to stimulate market share & Ploton itself.

    There were no LOI, MOU and VW has not even responded to confirm this.”

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  • mymyvi (Member) on Nov 11, 2006 at 12:13 am

    Agree with Joe Ooi and Xoomie .. this news could possible be a quick way of enriching their share value and then cash out.

    Even if VW were to buy 51% stake of proton, please abolish the NAP and protection for local car manufacturers, make Malaysia a level playing field for all car manufacturers. Let us the ordinary Malaysian have a right to choose the make and model of our choice not forced to choose with limited makes.

    P1 once sold have to go for major makeover and rebranding (no more thunder cat logo). We all literally grew up with Proton being the spoiled child.

    Why we in Malaysia have been paying alot more for a lousy QC Proton car when the foreigners have always been enjoying superior quality Proton at a cheaper cost than us? We are fed up of subsidising Proton for Mat Salleh's at our cost!

    Its an implied understanding that export quality Proton is always better than the locally intended unit, Why this is so?

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  • QRizTOBurD (Member) on Nov 11, 2006 at 4:30 am

    finaly… proton is thinking for themselves!

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  • QRizTOBurD (Member) on Nov 11, 2006 at 4:30 am

    finaly… proton is thinking for themselves!.. or rather government thinking for proton!

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  • kacman (Member) on Nov 11, 2006 at 6:02 am

    oh puhleeez protonG, dont screw up this time puhleezzz

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  • Joe Ooi (Member) on Nov 11, 2006 at 6:22 am

    Prem3377 – you can disagree with me but look at the following link,

    http://malaysia-today.net/blog2006/newsncom.php?i…

    See whose writing is more consistent with it – I view this matter from free economics perspective whilst you look it from freak Protonomic point of view!

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  • maibatsu_thunder (Member) on Nov 11, 2006 at 5:07 pm

    I assume now after spending millions:

    1) Developing R&D facilities

    2) R&D spending

    3) Developing own engine (Campro but without Cam Profiling System or Variable Length Intake Manifold)

    4) Developing own cars – Waja, Gen2, Savvy

    5) Sticking a big thundercat logo on Kenny Roberts GP bikes

    6) Selling bicycles

    Now they are going to just rebadge VW, PSA, Chery and Mitsubishi cars? Where were the Koreans in 1984 and where are they now? So, correct me if I'm wrong, now Proton is negotiating (with four parties) on how to rebadge cars like Perodua (rebadged Daihatsu) is doing now.

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  • nizam80 (Member) on Nov 11, 2006 at 11:42 pm

    If VW to get the tie-up, then probably we can get 1 or 2 new models each year, like what Perodua is doing now.

    Hopefully Proton can give us better quality cars, more safety and FUNCTIONAL features at an affordable price.

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  • volvolover (Member) on Nov 12, 2006 at 1:49 am

    Chery's future models.

    http://www.cheryglobal.com/Upcoming%20Products.ht…

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  • hameed koyakuti (Member) on Nov 12, 2006 at 5:33 pm

    Hello….I really hope the foreigners will take over all GLC, not only Proton, but all GLC, all Malaysian banks and Malaysian company. By then, Malaysian will have nothing, own nothing, possess nothing, no need to operate anything. Malaysian do not need to involve in all this high tech business, just happily remotely selling handphone at Low Yat or BB or sells electric products like sen heng.

    DO remember, we must do it in order to make our fellow Malaysian consumer happy and satisfied with consumer's product.

    I relly hope this will be a case study in future economic subject, whether the country's economy will lingkup or not if they sell their GLC.

    Local Vs Foreign Partners/Operators…..Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka…….Semua Kasi Gadai La………

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  • Joe Ooi (Member) on Nov 12, 2006 at 7:42 pm

    hameed koyakuti, it is not a matter of "gadai" or let foreigner take over all GLCs or the like. It is a matter of do our biz entities run and manage in professional and achieve world class standard. If all these GLCs are "white elephants" or terminally ill that run like those "ineffiecient" government department, then it incurred tax payer money to bail it out every time make lose are warrant for such taken over, either by local or foreigner. We as tax payer should not take burden at all cost and at all time to bear the burden of ineffieciency and blunder of the "few elite" who control these companies for their "dubious agenda" in enriching themselve at the expanse of the rakyat, later use public fund (especially petrol money) to bail them out after their "hulabaloo adventures".

    Take in case of Malaysian entities that successfull in oversea like Jimmy Choo (London) and Zhang Toi (New York). Not forgeten my favourite local cartoon LAT with main theme of Kampong Boy even can penetrate international market that has its own nitche market if not rival Mickey Mouse.

    Our countries are not lack of resources, talents and expertise to be world class players. Take the case of Maxis, Digi, Public Bank, IOI, Southern Bank, etc are among the best manage as survey doe by Asian Wall Street Journal. Even at least some these companies become regional player if not conquer the world. In strictly free economy perspective, they recognize the best player in it class but not tolerate inefficiency and malpractice. Free economy theritically are the proponent of wealth creation, not "white elephant" projects that drain the public coffer and create liability to the nation.

    In the case of P1, it is not "national icon" but shameful and failure project that need to find foreign partner (just like Perodua) to turnaround its fortune, especially in acquiring technological know how. If P1 want to do it alone, then it have to pour in perhaps billion to set up design centre in Frankfurt, R & D in Silicon Valley to monitor and capture latest technology, or send Engineer to oversea for training and acquire auto engineering know how. Do P1 have the capacity and monetary resources to do so? What the "Centre of Excellency" at Shah Alam costing around RM 100 Million and R & D Centre at Tanjung Mlaim can produce? Can they become best centre of design like Frankfurt or best R & D centre like Silicon Valley? What they have at Shah Alam and Tanjung Malim plant at Bernam Valley that was previously part of "Hutan Simpanan".

    Look at Merc, even their annual R & D budget is more than USD 3 Billion, but for P1 the R & D facilities & Research budget as shown in website is "peanut" RM 28 Million for year 02/03. So, it is a sensible move to tie up with foreign partner to overcome its weakness in this aspect. Nothing to lose (including so call "national pride") but everything to gain from this tie up. This is because P1 is not good. If P1 is good, then this shall not be the case. P1 should conquere the world market to bring back foreign currency to enrich our Bolehland. The naked sad fact for P1 export market is dumping RM at oversea market by selling better quality, higher specs and lower price at "subsidy" basis if taken into consideration CBU unit, logistic cost, etc.

    For Thailand, they don't have "National car", yet they become ASEAN regional hub for automotive industry and can export more than 200,000 units annualy to earn foreign currency. In our countries, we have P1, P2, Naza even Inokom, yet most of it are rebadge cars but export is less than 20,000 units per annum! What a shameful crappy NAP protective policy.

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  • hameed koyakuti (Member) on Nov 12, 2006 at 10:36 pm

    Even some of the facts is not correct, but who cares coz the actual vs reported by the press is all far away accurate.

    Comparing NAP n Thailand's Auto Policy, its too early to comment. NAP is providing a long term solutions, whereesle Thai AP is just exist as a manufacturing base ( short term ), which easily been overtake by Vietnam, Laos or Philippines once their economy and political situation improvised in 2~3 years time.

    Despite all the happenings up north ( Thai ), the manufacturers are still looking to English speaking countries to position their operations, Rnd and administration.

    But opening the economy is a very interesting agenda to all of us msian. By then the corporations can really compete in providing the best products and services to consumer.

    Merdeka Merdeka Merdeka…….Pajak Gadai bisnes ada……

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  • offroader manix (Member) on Nov 15, 2006 at 4:35 am

    Yeah……that's it.

    The party days are over BOD of Proton….serve them right and so are the foreign car prices.

    We'll see how it is going to perform under foreign ownership.

    The current goverment rules ! :)

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