A closer view at the new Proton Turbo engine

Proton Turbo Engine
Click for enlarged image

I’ve managed to obtain photos that show a closer view of the new Proton Turbo engine that our King and Queen previewed at Lotus in the UK just a little more than a week ago. The photo doesn’t really tell us much but I think there are some details that have been revealed just by looking at the engine.

We get to see the top of the engine, the intake, as well as abit of the turbocharger peeking out from behind the block. The top of the engine looks slightly different from the Campro and Campro CPS engines. It looks more similiar to the Campro engine though because of the shape of the spark plug cover, but there are some minor differences in shapes. I’m not sure what the Campro IAFM looks like without the engine cover.

Proton Campro Engine

I’ve heard many times before that the new Proton Turbo engine will not have functions such as CPS which mean higher costs. Forced induction that is properly tuned can provide sufficient torque over a wide RPM spread thus you do not have to do funky things to improve airflow such as variable valve lift or timing. The turbocharged Campro engine that we saw in the Proton Exora Prestige earlier this year was also based on a regular Campro and not the Campro CPS.

Finally, I think we gotta also keep an open mind that this might not even be the production Campro Turbo engine in the first place. It may be just a bolt-on prototype similiar to the one in the Exora Prestige Turbo. But it sure is nice getting to see one part of what the Royal Family managed to see. After all, Proton is our national carmaker and whether you love them or hate them, I find that almost everyone wants to know everything about them!

Related Posts:
Proton Exora Turbo based on the Exora Prestige
Royal Family check out the Proton Campro Turbo Engine

Proton Turbo Engine
Click for enlarged image

King and Queen at Lotus
Click for enlarged image

Campro Turbo

Campro Turbo

Campro Turbo

Campro Turbo

Campro Turbo

Campro Turbo

Campro Turbo

Campro Turbo

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Paul Tan

After dabbling for years in the IT industry, Paul Tan initially began this site as a general blog covering various topics of personal interest. With an increasing number of readers paying rapt attention to the motoring stories, one thing led to another and the rest, as they say, is history.

 

Comments

  • infinity on Oct 15, 2009 at 10:17 am

    Yeah!it is getting interesting..after turbo CamPro, next will be diesel CamPro..Yeah!!

    i am really looking forward to Proton's future models and engines!

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  • scanzew on Oct 15, 2009 at 10:40 am

    i just wonder the different between this two engine….afraid this news just buzz and just buat gempak… but well done proton for additional R&D for proton…but i think for the engine must joint effort with other partnership….a little bit waste doing it in same technology engine….very very big mistake…

    sorry just my view…..

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  • buzzard on Oct 15, 2009 at 11:10 am

    This is basically a bolt-on Turbo engine.

    Since the production is only in 2011(or earlier) its

    just the prelimenary stage with lots of testing to be conducted..

    Hopefully its the CPS version when the engine finally rolled out.

    Moving forward Proton still has to set its vision and come out with something more solid esp its LIMITED powerplant for the 1.8-2.0 segment.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • it looked a bit weird…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • proton shud implement amt system for campro since the auto gbox is total rubbish. I really love amt, possibly hv pedal shifter as well. Ask ZF & magnetti mirelli to design new gbox specially for campro engine, no more mitsu

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 15, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    If this only normal campro with turbo, i think it is a waste. Better buy mitsu obsolete 4G63 which is also normal+turbo. Mitsu already replace it with mivec turbo which equal to cps+turbo. I don't know.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • celicazz on Oct 15, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    how come u say it is a waste?

    buying mitsu's wont assured low price. making own would ensure that it has economic of scale to join other campros… plus, NA campro has high output of 110bhp, only the delivery needed to be adjust. turbo would do good.

    we are looking at possibility of 150bhp 1.6 engine here, almost 100bhp/litre with no valve timing, variable valve lift. that would be great.

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  • old timers on Oct 15, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    bolt-on turbo….hehe. i thought new engine mah…

    dont worry after 2 years spending taxpayer money on 70- engineers in uk, hopefully, people would just forget about it later….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • outdoor geng on Oct 15, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    wait & see… don't forget to pay your tax next year :)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • ynnad on Oct 15, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    IMHO,BOT would be the fasttrack way of getting the engine out.

    Look at how those guys in the US are slapping in turbos on almost every engine for USD2-5k. Yes those setups are not going to survive high boost and probably engine life is only going to be half of original life expectancy.

    HOwever, if a manufacturer is going to do it, they would make sure the necessary internals are upgraded to withstand the pressure and heat from a turbo. And most importantly, they have a way better economies of scale compared to your 3rd party BoT assembler.

    So look on the brighter side of things, gimme a BOT coz I dont want to wait another 1-2 yrs for Turbo CPS. By the time they get the CPS right for BOT, the rest of the world may have come out with another alphabet soup technology for engines.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • nmh said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 4:46 am

    'proton shud implement amt system for campro since the auto gbox is total rubbish. I really love amt, possibly hv pedal shifter as well. Ask ZF & magnetti mirelli to design new gbox specially for campro engine, no more mitsu'

    It's common for the automobile industry to buy ready developed gearboxes from the suppliers. The problem is, not ZF has to design a gearbox for Proton, but Proton has to design the car in that way that it could fit a ZF gearbox.

    Best example is Audi. For their first A8 TDI they avoided all warnings from ZF and bought a gearbox that was to weak for the engine. The reason: There was no space to fit the bigger, better suited gearbox which ZF also was able to deliver. Nowadays old Audi A8 TDI are well known for their gearbox problems… BTW Audi learned from the mistake and redesigned the new A8 to fit better suited gearboxes ;)

    Mitsubishi is special, because they are not only a car manufacturer, but a manufacturer of gear-cutting machine tools and gearboxes as well. They also sell gearboxes to other car manufacturers.

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  • azrai on Oct 15, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Yeah. Clearly look like a basic campro with bolt on turbo. Paul, is there any news on NAZA plan to introduced 6 new model including Forza and Suria facelift this November and next year?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • akupunya on Oct 15, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    gimik je ni …

    takde benda apa pun..

    stress the old engine to get more horse power..

    apsal la tk create the high powered engine terus like 2.0 or 2.5?

    kat exora boleh pakai..kat new sedan to replace perdana pun boleh sumbat..

    ni 1.6 liter.nk sumabt dlm semua jenis keta..apa barang??

    sampai bila proton nk hidup dgn kereta 1.6cc?

    tak variety…

    pengguna dan rakyat tak kisah macam proton nk untung..

    tapi pengguna ambilkisah bentuk dan jenis model yg dikeluarkan..

    jgn jadikan engine macam model wira dan waja..terlalu lama di pasaran..

    nanti orang pakat muntah ramai2..

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  • SKUNK_WORKS on Oct 15, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    Just, bring it on, proton. Prove to all malaysian that your turbo engine is a worth waiting.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • milanRed (Member) on Oct 15, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    hopefully it is just for show…. better off developing hybrid/economical/bi-fuel engine for us 'every year pay tax citizen' and then pressure the govt to reduce excise duty/road tax on those 'eco-friendly' car so that we can enjoy everyday 'pocket-friendly' driving.

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  • MADBOY on Oct 15, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    scanzew said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 2:40 am

    i just wonder the different between this two engine….afraid this news just buzz and just buat gempak… but well done proton for additional R&D for proton…but i think for the engine must joint effort with other partnership….a little bit waste doing it in same technology engine….very very big mistake…

    sorry just my view…..

    ————————————————————-

    Funny, you who make a fair comment would apologise for nothing, but those who simply bash like hell would never apologise when when they know they are wrong.

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  • lightning mcqueen on Oct 15, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    milanred! Proton is not gov agency. So u donot pay their salary. They have to work for it, kereta no selling, they will have to gulung tikar la. Respect them like u want people respect you.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • cool girl on Oct 15, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    who said its a waste?

    exora came out with underpoweered engine, u complain..

    proton came out with turbo to give more power to the exora, u complain…

    i dont understand.. :S

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • Do you really think they work for it? They won't even gulung tikar because their direct competitors have been priced out of their playing field. How many can buy a Honda City at RM90k when the "equivalent" Proton Persona is only RM55k? You want one more comparison? How many people will buy a VW Golf GTI at RM200k when the Proton Neo CPS is around RM60k? Try pricing the VW Golf at even RM80k and see if Neo CPS can survive. Who in their right mind will buy a Proton Perdana at RM90k when the latest Hyundai Sonata is priced at RM80k as in South Korea?

    I'd rather get the respect I deserve rather than have respect shoven down the throat. Proton may deserve your respect, but not mine.

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  • pulge on Oct 15, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    Similar posting when it comes to Proton.

    Well, As long as the engines provide good power delivery and fuel economy and lower emission, I don't really mind. Maybe this is only some minor details of their RnD.

    Cheers!

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  • mayor on Oct 15, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    Brother, nobody will sell the GOLF GTi for less than RM100k even if there is no tax at all. Look at how much the car is selling in Singapore at the Open Market Price. If you can't afford an RM100k plus car, you can never afford the GOLF GTi. Don't just complaint la….

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  • scgtimk1 on Oct 15, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    Take a closer look at the engine photo.

    The Bulging Cam Sprocket shows that it has VVT of sort.

    The CPS system currently employed in the campro is the same as old Mivec and Vtec system where there is a diffrent cam profile on the camshaft.

    It would be awesome if this engine has 160bhp engine with around 200nm of torque from spread from 1800rpm to 5000rpm…..

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  • scottloeb on Oct 15, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    Who in the right piece of mind wants to sell cars at lower rates nowadays? The yen is expensive, MYR is stuck with USD, and EUR is going up like nobody business and you expect VW GTI to sell at MYR 80K? in your wettest wildest dream. They have these thing call 'Brand image' which will easily cost you 10 to 20% higher price then the next competitors. Ask Toyota (UMWT) and Honda (HMSB) for more details and Nissan(ETCM) will answer the question why Nissan is always cheaper than Toyota and Honda. They'll tell you 'we need to take care into our customer base not to reduce new model price even if we press the parts here at TAuto body Malaysia and bumper being injected here'. Why people dont want to buy Sonata even if it is selling at MYR 100K now? Or Citra at 68K? because its 2nd hand value is sure to go down at 50% rates. Not forgetting the way the Korean screw the aftermarket business and bad after sales service by both Hyundai & Kia.

    Proton is a pain in the ass for those who think that they have god given right to drive a Mercedes at Perdana price but reluctant to look into our other factors. I say let Proton decide its future, I'm very confident they can do wonders, its just that they dont have the money and the volume to do so. Let they have cautional approach as the return in Proton is the return in my EPF as well. And BoT is not the right way to do for a manufacturer. Lots of commentator dont understand business and manufacturing. Production instruction, kanban and inventory management besides warranty and legal implication is something need to be iron out before proper product can be put in the market shelves.

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  • jolly_idiot on Oct 15, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    wonder can they maintain d fuel consumption? tubo tubo how's d emissions?

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  • BeemerFreak on Oct 15, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    Lotus could get over 200bhp out of the toyota 1.8 vvti in the exige. Proton already has the technology by stealing from lotus, so the campro turbo should come with cps and at least 160 hp and 220 Nm of torque.

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  • jolly_idiot on Oct 15, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    Hey guys, look at the engine rocker cover. Got something there, i suspect it comes with some kinda VVT in it.

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  • initial R on Oct 15, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    Tax, G fund, high price car…. still are old story. Just make it short. Tax, everyone have to pay tax even u "sedar atau tak sedar". Eat at fast food u have to pay tax. So why so fuzz. G fund Proton, hello… please wakeup… now Proton are alone with no G back up (sekarang diaorang ikut PM buat lawatan perniagaan atas sebab nak kembangkan pasaran) jadi proses yang diaorang ada nie adalah untuk membangunkan proton semula dan kalau nak gulung tikar pun. Harga kereta import mahal, pernah dengar trade antarabangsa guna matawang USD tak. tak kira le kat mana pun, barang naik atas kapal semua urusan bertukar jadi USD jadi kira sendiri kalau harga kat jepun guna yen>export guna USD>import tukar balik RM. Jadi pikir sendiri banyak mana harga berubah dan jangan harap harga berubah kecuali RM kukuh. Sorry kalau apa yg I cakap ada yang tersinggung sebab banyak yang cakap kat sini nie tak banyak terlibat dengan perniaggan luar negara tapi lepak dalam office, berangan lebih.

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 15, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    Excise duty in Malaysia is too high for import cars. A RM140K 2.0 H marque has RM40k in excise duty alone. Truly, the T and H is really taking advantage for current pricing as it is not base on their "manufacturing" cost but authority is deciding their car pricing in Malaysia. Camry and Accord has more or less same pricing range but do their manufacturing cost are same? If it is base on their manufacturing cost, T should be price higher than H because H is damn simple in manufacturing equipment and squeezing to the limit. Oh pity Malaysian that's why i stick to old LE and no more hutang.

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  • redfueler on Oct 15, 2009 at 6:17 pm

    i`m exciting to heard about proton latrest news…

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 15, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    They have these thing call ‘Brand image’ which will easily cost you 10 to 20% higher price then the next competitors. Ask Toyota (UMWT) and Honda (HMSB) for more details and Nissan(ETCM) will answer the question why Nissan is always cheaper than Toyota and Honda.

    Scottloeb

    It is not about brand image. nothing to do with brand image. it is TAX.

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  • theanswer on Oct 15, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    yup..i agree with majority of u guys here..proton must join venture in order to gain better new engine. even mitsubishi lancer,kia rondo use GEMA engine that is also use in evo X(with turbo).

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  • initial R on Oct 15, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    BeemerFreak said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 9:42 am

    Lotus could get over 200bhp out of the toyota 1.8 vvti in the exige. Proton already has the technology by stealing from lotus, so the campro turbo should come with cps and at least 160 hp and 220 Nm of torque.

    ————————————————————

    It's not stealing, tapi bangunkan teknologi yang sedia ada dari anak syarikat. Benda dah ada kat sana, guna pakai je. Kalau kata valve lifting tu teknologi curik, maksudnya banyak le kompeni lain tak leh pakai cam Vtec dari Honda, MIVEC dari Mitshu dan lain2 lagi le….

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  • paul, i agree this engine might not having cps.

    but at lower rpm it need VVT

    like some older system, mitsubishi cyclone turbo, which low rpm torque is cattered by TVIS alike which limits air at low rpm.

    ,after that turbo mitsubishi use MIVEC for its latest

    for this campro turbo. lower end torque is gained instantly by the help of VVT.good for town drive.

    if you look at the side view of the engine campro turbo, the cam pulley cover clearly popped out at the intake side to house the VVT mechanism.

    —-VVT is for real, belive me.—–

    so buying toyota wih VVTi, ?

    nissan CVVT

    now proton have one VVT even with Turbo.

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  • Tiadaid on Oct 15, 2009 at 6:41 pm

    Automotive_Critics said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 10:24 am

    They have these thing call ‘Brand image’ which will easily cost you 10 to 20% higher price then the next competitors. Ask Toyota (UMWT) and Honda (HMSB) for more details and Nissan(ETCM) will answer the question why Nissan is always cheaper than Toyota and Honda.

    Scottloeb

    It is not about brand image. nothing to do with brand image. it is TAX.

    —————————–

    What he meant was that brand image accounts for 10%-20% of the price of the car BEFORE tax. Have you wondered why an Audi is more expensive than a Volkswagen? Despite sharing a platform? It's the BRAND. Brand determines the price, not only for cars, but for EVERYTHING. That's why Tesco Brand items are cheaper than their branded counterparts. That's why Nike shoes are more expensive than Power shoes. That's why Macs are much more expensive than a PC.

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  • theking on Oct 15, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    Proton bashers keep on bashing with stupid comment!

    Anyway for the Phoenix project, new gearbox is in the making too and no more Mitsubishi but from well known Deutschland company.

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  • apa-apa aje lah on Oct 15, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    akupunya said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 7:59 am

    gimik je ni …

    takde benda apa pun..

    stress the old engine to get more horse power..

    apsal la tk create the high powered engine terus like 2.0 or 2.5?

    kat exora boleh pakai..kat new sedan to replace perdana pun boleh sumbat..

    ni 1.6 liter.nk sumabt dlm semua jenis keta..apa barang??

    sampai bila proton nk hidup dgn kereta 1.6cc?

    tak variety…

    pengguna dan rakyat tak kisah macam proton nk untung..

    tapi pengguna ambilkisah bentuk dan jenis model yg dikeluarkan..

    jgn jadikan engine macam model wira dan waja..terlalu lama di pasaran..

    nanti orang pakat muntah ramai2..

    —————————————

    bro, to me Proton want to make sure their cuatomer don't have to pay higer road tax when they're using proton. 1.6 is ok to me but need to ensure the tork and hp are good enough for MPV. mkin lu org kaya x kisah maa..tp yg perpendapatan sderhana? kne pikir gak. kalo lu kaya..kasi angkat kete luar la.

    but, for future an veriaty, i agree with u p1 shud hv higer cc of engines. be patient..although p1 established since 1985/86, to me it just born few yesrs ago when there r serious in RnD. yg dulu2 tu x kira…

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  • apa-apa aje lah on Oct 15, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    akupunya said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 7:59 am

    gimik je ni …

    takde benda apa pun..

    stress the old engine to get more horse power..

    apsal la tk create the high powered engine terus like 2.0 or 2.5?

    kat exora boleh pakai..kat new sedan to replace perdana pun boleh sumbat..

    ni 1.6 liter.nk sumabt dlm semua jenis keta..apa barang??

    sampai bila proton nk hidup dgn kereta 1.6cc?

    tak variety…

    pengguna dan rakyat tak kisah macam proton nk untung..

    tapi pengguna ambilkisah bentuk dan jenis model yg dikeluarkan..

    jgn jadikan engine macam model wira dan waja..terlalu lama di pasaran..

    nanti orang pakat muntah ramai2..

    —————————————

    bro, to me Proton want to make sure their cuatomer don't have to pay higer road tax when they're using proton. 1.6 is ok to me but need to ensure the tork and hp are good enough for MPV. mkin lu org kaya x kisah maa..tp yg perpendapatan sderhana? kne pikir gak. kalo lu kaya..kasi angkat kete luar la.

    but, for future an veriaty, i agree with u p1 shud hv higer cc of engines. be patient..although p1 established since 1985/86, to me it just born few yesrs ago when they r serious in RnD. yg dulu2 tu x kira…

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  • scottloeb on Oct 15, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    ACritics,

    Of course the tax will always be there. There is a quote says ' 2 things is certain – Death and Tax'. As usual the car company can (more or less) play with the declared value but now the customs OMV is quite fair. But in the end the car company decides the pricing based on the price of the accessories which will determine the final pricing of the car and the amount of margin. Due to the perceived 'brand value' you dont really see Mitsubishi and Suzuki being arrogant anymore right? Same goes to Honda in AUS & NZ as their brand value is not that strong. True, it is intangible but the blame should not be put entirely on the gomen as the distributor should have the fair share as well. A couple of decades ago when Camry being introduced to the malaysian market UMWT pay through their noses to buy back 1 single unit of Camry being used as a taxi from 1 customer to prevent the model from being perceived as a 'cheaper alternative to Accord'.

    In Indonesia the gomen is increasing the tax the way other country in ASEAN (Malaysia, Singapore) and you can see the number of sales increase in this quarter before its being implemented in Jan '10. And yes, Proton pay excise duty as other car, fair and square. Its the IAF that the industry being questioned now.

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  • flopsy on Oct 15, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    hopefully it would be something that we can proud of…

    but do something with the auto gear…dont feel any power

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 15, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    Tiadaid said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 10:41 am

    What he meant was that brand image accounts for 10%-20% of the price of the car BEFORE tax. Have you wondered why an Audi is more expensive than a Volkswagen? Despite sharing a platform? It’s the BRAND. Brand determines the price, not only for cars, but for EVERYTHING..

    –>Sharing platform only not sharing everything. how the molds and dies? Unique feature? Depreciation? Projected volume and lifecycle? ever checked? Sharing platform doesn’t mean can price same.

    I got below information from an insider for 2.0 local CKD Price structure. Let’ say RM140k. ±RM50K?KD parts, ±RM20?Local source parts, RM10K?Sales and Logistic (PDI, distribution) cost, ±RM1K?manufacturing cost (salary, utility, facility etc), ±RM20K?Gross profit =±RM100k. Selling price is ±RM140k. Would you mind where the additional RM40k comes from?

    That’s why Tesco Brand items are cheaper than their branded counterparts. That’s why Nike shoes are more expensive than Power shoes. That’s why Macs are much more expensive than a PC.

    –>I’m not agree this comparison. Tesco brand is cheap because mass volume and low cost packaging etc2 and Nike shoe material and design does justify it’s asking price. Power shoes? Don’t compare orange and apple pls.

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  • Raixa on Oct 15, 2009 at 7:15 pm

    How much power will the engine from phoenix project produce? I hope for something between 150 – 240 bhp would be great and hopefully NA.

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  • Tiadaid on Oct 15, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    Automotive_Critics said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 11:10 am

    That’s why Tesco Brand items are cheaper than their branded counterparts. That’s why Nike shoes are more expensive than Power shoes. That’s why Macs are much more expensive than a PC.

    –>I’m not agree this comparison. Tesco brand is cheap because mass volume and low cost packaging etc2 and Nike shoe material and design does justify it’s asking price. Power shoes? Don’t compare orange and apple pls.

    ————————-

    And you're saying Colgate is not mass volume? I'm comparing Tesco brand with FMCG that have similar costs. And how you know Nike shoe design justify it's price? You don't seriously believe all the marketing mumbo jumbo they advertise now do you? It's not comparing apples and oranges.

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  • theanswer on Oct 15, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    sometimes our bashing is not totally negative. looking from +ve pov, all of us are proud with our own brand..but we as a consumer, we pay tax, we want to buy our own local car with our money..thats why we want a good end product.

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  • farghmee on Oct 15, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    @theKing,

    getrag?

    ZF?

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  • Tiadaid on Oct 15, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    theanswer said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 11:23 am

    sometimes our bashing is not totally negative. looking from +ve pov, all of us are proud with our own brand..but we as a consumer, we pay tax, we want to buy our own local car with our money..thats why we want a good end product.

    ———————-

    For me, I call stupid comments that give no suggestions on how can we improve the state of Proton bashing. Constructive, positive criticisms are not bashing in my book

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  • initial R on Oct 15, 2009 at 7:37 pm

    Automotive_Critics said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 11:10 am

    That’s why Tesco Brand items are cheaper than their branded counterparts. That’s why Nike shoes are more expensive than Power shoes. That’s why Macs are much more expensive than a PC.

    –>I’m not agree this comparison. Tesco brand is cheap because mass volume and low cost packaging etc2 and Nike shoe material and design does justify it’s asking price. Power shoes? Don’t compare orange and apple pls

    —————————————————————-

    if we said about volume. Toyota vios do mess volume more than pesona & sold to many country but still why the price still expencive even the quality & spec's are par with pesona ?. Why BMW price slightly cheaper than Merc ?. Why Acer laptop cheaper than Sony laptop ?.

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  • wASte Bucket on Oct 15, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    Some people here talk too much of crap..its true that cars in malaysia has higher price than most..but most countries which has their own outomotive industry would some how protect their own industries from the foreign makes.

    in japan…imported cars not even 15% of their market..in korean as well…

    if a country do not protect its automotive industry..they wont have one..for example..see what is going on in the US automotive industry?what happened in British automotive industry??

    Even German protect their national products from the rest…why is it wrong if Malaysia follow this idea??

    you cannot get a tax free car!!thats a fact…even proton is taxed!!

    by the way about the post..BOT is the best way and the cheapest way to increase the output..and by saving cost..consumers will benefit..simple as that..

    and for you information..for many here who spoke like experts in engine design..

    dont just look at vvti,vtec,mivec,vanos and etc as engineering marvels..they do contribute in making the engines efficient but the actual fact is the technology existed in the early 1970s as basic idea..the japanese were just good at marketing

    during the 1990s..DOHC and TWIN CAM were marketed as if its something so great and new…but it has existed since 1930s…

    dont be fooled by this marketing names…the true fact is..petrol engines efficiency has improved too little over a period of about 130 years plus…

    you still waste about 60% of the fuel energy every single revolution/cycle of the engine!!!

    and the latest turbo technology does not need cps,mivec,vvti or even vtec cause variable Vane turbo has arrived..it can cut turbo lag,by adjusting it vane(the flow inlets) by tilting the blade or even better technology is by decrease and increasing volume so boost can varied.It is too complicated to explain but in a nutshell..if a turbo charger can provide variable boost or constant boost with changing its vanes according to its input..then why do we need cam profiling??

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  • old timers on Oct 15, 2009 at 7:49 pm

    tiadaid,

    i propose we close down Potong…it's that constructive criticism or stupid comment… haha. like i care what u think…

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  • old timers on Oct 15, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    wASte Bucket said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 11:42 am

    "………………………………………………….

    you still waste about 60% of the fuel energy every single revolution/cycle of the engine!!!

    and the latest turbo technology does not need cps,mivec,vvti or even vtec cause variable Vane turbo has arrived..it can cut turbo lag,by adjusting it vane(the flow inlets) by tilting the blade or even better technology is by decrease and increasing volume so boost can varied.It is too complicated to explain but in a nutshell..if a turbo charger can provide variable boost or constant boost with changing its vanes according to its input..then why do we need cam profiling??"

    —> finally, potong now able to reduce the 60% wastage…? That's something new…now potong has made a revolutionary discovery.. no wonder gov does not mind spending a lot of taxpayer money for their 70 engineers to 'makan angin' in uk…hehe

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    Scottleob,

    A couple of decades ago when Camry being introduced to the malaysian market UMWT pay through their noses to buy back 1 single unit of Camry being used as a taxi from 1 customer to prevent the model from being perceived as a ‘cheaper alternative to Accord’.

    –>You may correct but I think Toyota want to justify their Camry for heavy tax pricing by the Malaysian authority. The only brand which is consistent for so called branding image is Honda. There are thousands of camry being used as Taxi in Thailand but i believe you won't find even 1 accord used as Taxi.

    You also can easily find Altis used as Taxi in our country so your perception of brand image for Toyota might be wrong and could misleading others.

    Although Honda has strong brand image policy, if refer to cost sructure in my previous posting, i don't see where they put this 10 to 20% addtional costt for brand image. Pls clarify me if i'm wrong.

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  • initial R on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    Automotive_Critics said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 12:01 pm

    Scottleob,

    A couple of decades ago when Camry being introduced to the malaysian market UMWT pay through their noses to buy back 1 single unit of Camry being used as a taxi from 1 customer to prevent the model from being perceived as a ‘cheaper alternative to Accord’.

    –>You may correct but I think Toyota want to justify their Camry for heavy tax pricing by the Malaysian authority. The only brand which is consistent for so called branding image is Honda. There are thousands of camry being used as Taxi in Thailand but i believe you won’t find even 1 accord used as Taxi.

    You also can easily find Altis used as Taxi in our country so your perception of brand image for Toyota might be wrong and could misleading others.

    Although Honda has strong brand image policy, if refer to cost sructure in my previous posting, i don’t see where they put this 10 to 20% addtional costt for brand image. Pls clarify me if i’m wrong.

    —————————————————————

    10>20 % goes to SC.

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    if we said about volume. Toyota vios do mess volume more than pesona & sold to many country but still why the price still expencive even the quality & spec’s are par with pesona ?. Why BMW price slightly cheaper than Merc ?. Why Acer laptop cheaper than Sony laptop ?.

    Initial R,

    Toyota vios expensive ONLY in Malaysia (don't know Indon). Try googling it's price in others country (This may apply GNI comparison). I check 2 year residual value for Belta on RM12k in Japan with normal depreciation rate. JDM swift only cost RM18k for new car. pls check.

    Quality and spec on par with pesona? You might beyond real life i think. VVTi same with normal campro IAFM? 4AT + super ECT same as old 4AT from mitsu without OD feature?

    Why BMW price slightly cheaper than Merc ?. Why Acer laptop cheaper than Sony laptop ?. See the cost and other option to justify. Look to Sony new key pad design. 1st in the world to introduce such design. New design mean cheap? Merc is 7 speeder but BM maybe still 6 speeder. Which model?

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  • wASte Bucket on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    old timers said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 11:54 am

    —> finally, potong now able to reduce the 60% wastage…? That’s something new…now potong has made a revolutionary discovery.. no wonder gov does not mind spending a lot of taxpayer money for their 70 engineers to ‘makan angin’ in uk…hehe

    _________________________________________________________________________

    Dude,do you know to read??the government wasted so much money subsidising your formal education and yet you are not able to understand a simple sentence??

    in which sentence did i say proton manage to reduce 60% wastage??funny how people can manipulate simple sentence!!haha

    people like you which actually contribute nothing more than crap to this country..if you are not able to read in interpret a simple sentence,how are going to do complicated tasks in nation building??PROTON,Government, and malaysia reflects every fellow malaysians..and sad to say you are one of them!!

    and since you cant even understand a simple sentence..let me explain to you..

    turbo charging is force induction..which means more air is forced into the combustion chamber..the more air inside..more oxygen and with more oxygen..better combustion.thats how a turbo charger works..it uses more fuel compared to a normal 1.6 engine but the power output is higher..the power comes for various source..one is more fuel,then more air,the the density of air(usually intercooler can provide denser colder air) and compression ratio…rest do ur own reading..thats how your brain can grow…

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:20 pm

    celicazz said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 6:41 am

    how come u say it is a waste?

    buying mitsu’s wont assured low price. making own would ensure that it has economic of scale to join other campros… plus, NA campro has high output of 110bhp, only the delivery needed to be adjust. turbo would do good

    –> I mean can develop others type of engine like SOHC engine in Civic 1.8 and CRV 2.0. It is SOHC but torque is huge and FC is better also. So would you think it a waste now as we have already option engine from others which been obsolete already.

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  • –>I’m not agree this comparison. Tesco brand is cheap because mass volume and low cost packaging etc2 and Nike shoe material and design does justify it’s asking price. Power shoes? Don’t compare orange and apple pls.

    —————————————————-

    Tesco brand is cheap because mass volume and low cost packaging ?? its about goodwill, brand name la. my ex-co packaging the same product to tesco too but tesco can give much cheaper price compared to ours. reason, we also sell "our brand" + the product itself.

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  • fadzly on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:31 pm

    old timer always sux.. jgn layan die

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    Dude,do you know to read??the government wasted so much money subsidising your formal education and yet you are not able to understand a simple sentence??

    Waste buckets

    The term "subsidies" should not be used. Gov use people tax money to run schools. "subsidies" mean like we are begging to Gov which use people's money.

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  • carneo on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    What is big bottle with presure cap ..and also the cheap toiler water hos(very ugly and not presentable) is this the turbo coolant system?

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  • if you hope that the day proton dies is the day that all those tax, excise or whatever will go away and you finally can buy a much cheaper cbu car, i can assure you that will not happen.

    pointless bashing and generalization will just show that you are short of knowledge, emo or even whiners.

    grow up. it is a known fact that a LOT of automobile people surfs around the internet to gauge end consumer views and we are being heard. and to go through 8 whiners to finally read a constructive one is not helping anyone.

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  • scottloeb on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    ACritics,

    Most of your arguments is understantable and accepted. However in the context of Malaysia, Toyota dont want Camry to be perceived as the red-white (or yellow and black during that period if I'm not mistaken) taxi in the introductory period of the model to replace Corona (somewhere in the 90's) as a direct competitor to the Accord. In Thailand, Corolla special taxi grade (with strip off everything) being produce which is the lowest range in Corolla (altis or no altis – across all AE variant since the early days) purposely as the agreement between Thai authority and Siam Toyota/Toyota Motor Thailand, just like our Iswara Taxi grade with junks everywhere – LM Taxi and thank god they replaced that with BLM Saga, Waja, Innova, Avanza, Sentra, Optima and Sonata recently. And local Altis was planned to be made KLIA limo – some idiot from the company meddling with spec but main reason is they dont want their car to be the Limo (even if with the tax exemption – all taxi any type of car will get tax exemption). That is Malaysia distributor my friend. Better stop and cabut sebelum kena saman by Hibi-san or any lawyers a.k.a Ms Siemens haha

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  • pulge on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    theking,

    Any news on Persona facelift?

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    initial R said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 12:08 pm

    Automotive_Critics said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 12:01 pm

    Scottleob,

    A couple of decades ago when Camry being introduced to the malaysian market UMWT pay through their noses to buy back 1 single unit of Camry being used as a taxi from 1 customer to prevent the model from being perceived as a ‘cheaper alternative to Accord’.

    –>You may correct but I think Toyota want to justify their Camry for heavy tax pricing by the Malaysian authority. The only brand which is consistent for so called branding image is Honda. There are thousands of camry being used as Taxi in Thailand but i believe you won’t find even 1 accord used as Taxi.

    You also can easily find Altis used as Taxi in our country so your perception of brand image for Toyota might be wrong and could misleading others.

    Although Honda has strong brand image policy, if refer to cost sructure in my previous posting, i don’t see where they put this 10 to 20% addtional costt for brand image. Pls clarify me if i’m wrong.

    —————————————————————

    10>20 % goes to SC

    ————————————

    SC? How they do that? Part cost? Labor cost? pls clarify

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  • munky on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    haha old timer kena bash. lmao

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    pulge said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 12:37 pm

    theking,

    Any news on Persona facelift?

    ——————–

    Good. I suggest to facelift rear end design. Make slope at tail gate and re-design the tail lamp. May be can sells well.

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  • old timers on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    wasted bucket,

    reread ur previous wasted posting…it almost implied that. However, if u say no, then, would be my bad…hehe. I thought Potong is in the verge of revealing an important discovery of lifetime, that's why they send 70 engineers to uk.. but, sadly 70 engineers to put bolt-on turbo…and yet production in 2011…

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  • intermilan on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    it will be interesting if proton plan to coupled it with a ZF transmission. but which one? hopefully not a 4-speeder auto.. kinda waste, but cost gonna dictate everything / every single aspect of this project. which is obvious.

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  • keyboard rosak on Oct 15, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    akupunya said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 7:59 am

    gimik je ni …

    takde benda apa pun..

    stress the old engine to get more horse power..

    apsal la tk create the high powered engine terus like 2.0 or 2.5?

    kat exora boleh pakai..kat new sedan to replace perdana pun boleh sumbat..

    ni 1.6 liter.nk sumabt dlm semua jenis keta..apa barang??

    sampai bila proton nk hidup dgn kereta 1.6cc?

    tak variety…

    pengguna dan rakyat tak kisah macam proton nk untung..

    tapi pengguna ambilkisah bentuk dan jenis model yg dikeluarkan..

    jgn jadikan engine macam model wira dan waja..terlalu lama di pasaran..

    nanti orang pakat muntah ramai2..

    ——————————————————-

    Bro ko x baca ke? Engine ni nye hp equal to 2.0L engine.

    So nk watpe proton nak develop engine 2.0? kalu setakat upgrade engine skrg pn da dpt power cam 2.0L engine. Pastu, roadtax pn mura..engine kecik..

    Pikir dl seblm berkata2. Jgn main tabur je.

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  • Nakal on Oct 15, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    New transmission? This is another interesting news!!

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  • Micheal on Oct 15, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    old timers said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 12:51 pm

    wasted bucket,

    reread ur previous wasted posting…it almost implied that. However, if u say no, then, would be my bad…hehe. I thought Potong is in the verge of revealing an important discovery of lifetime, that’s why they send 70 engineers to uk.. but, sadly 70 engineers to put bolt-on turbo…and yet production in 2011…

    —————————————————————-

    ot,

    proton is not potong… u just so stupid u cannot read it well. 70 engineers sent there not only to design and develop. the sent to learn too… u just can think bout negative only huh? u r just sum kinna stupid basher that bash wthout thinking. if its just a bolt on engine, proton wont send the engineers to UK. they can just do it here… how much u bash proton… proton still among the best car seller in Malaysia… u have to accept the fact… proton selling well in iran, saudi arabia, australia… and some other country… where the ppl see and love proton more than we do…

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  • Mysticmind on Oct 15, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    How to make Toyota slash down the price? Easy…

    Don't buy toyota!.

    then they will cut down the price… but don't buy again yet!..

    Then they will cut more the price.. but please wait! don;t buy again…

    Then they cut somemore.. left their profit only RM10K per car.

    Then okay, you already got 50% less from their current price.

    well that.. which is.. the 'actual' price of their car.

    not the overpriced because overated of their brand are.

    See?

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  • id369 on Oct 15, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    where is sifu ????

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  • isharestuff on Oct 15, 2009 at 9:48 pm

    Every news on Proton would eventually end up with lot of discussion and opinions, even beyond the topic itself. Never stop to surprise me, G has comes into the picture, always.

    Erm… I have positive view on Proton's turbo, at least, it shows the engine has potential to become fun. If Proton makes it into production and package as a kit, guess there are lot of potential buyers out there.

    If this turbo unit can boost some friendly figure like additional 20-40bhp, that would be big difference.

    Initiative like developing more power on existing engine unit is always a good news, at least to people who enjoy joy of riding on local cars.

    Perhaps our mind has been poisoned by car ads or what, who says family car cannot be fun? Unless you're talking about straight line acceleration which highly demands on horsepower.

    To me, if the car has a rigid, light and responsive chassis, a good DOHC, preferably with forced induction, good suspension, it will be a fun car to drive on road.

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  • initial R on Oct 15, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    Automotive_Critics said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 12:38 pm

    ————————————————————–

    find your self lah since u know well in auto & have internal link…..

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  • dzulx on Oct 15, 2009 at 10:08 pm

    Wahh new transmission!! Thats really interesting… Would it be DSG-like.. Hehe

    Its amusing to see so many people still thinking 70 proton engineers do nothing but 'makan angin'.

    After all it just a turbo you might say… Local tuners have been doing that so many times. Dont need 70 people to go to UK. Rite??

    If ur 'willing' to think outside ur confined area 70 engineers are justifiable. Mind you this is not a one-off customized application like local tuners have been doing for so long.

    This is mass production. Manufacturing processes need to be defined, documents need to be created, specs need to be verified and validated not only for Proton but for vendors.

    Ask your local tuner can they mass produce their BOT application. Let say do BOT 1 car a day? and all the car must have similar power output and reliability. Proton has to do this and furthermore I dont think they produce 1 engine a day. They need to produce many engines a day perhaps.

    Some of local tuners are really good in what they r doing but they just simply can not do mass production.

    I am not sure the justification to do R&D in UK. But I believe Proton must have the reason. Or else MD wouldnt approved. After all, engineers are not high ranking officers and MD personally do not get any benefits by sending or not sending them to UK.

    But who am I to give comments. There are so many experts in this forum who still think nike shoes cost more than bata because of the design (maybe true by IMO not entirely true).

    It is easy to blame government on everything even if your cat died. But..why dont u do postmortem to ur cat to find out what really killed it. You gain more knowledge and u wouldnt feel bad :D

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  • intermilan on Oct 15, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    Some update, after looking at the list of ZF auto transmissions, i think there isn't one that suit to be applied to such engine. Most of ZF auto trans are longitunal. There is remote chance proton might consider the 4hp20 (use in Peugeot 406) but this g/b is too old lah.For info, i believe the trans need to be a transverse unit. Beside it will be FWD car. Dont think Proton will came out with a RWD / turbo Exora! That twill be marvelous!

    Unless of course if they are looking into coupling it with ZF CVT gearbox, CTF23, which seem suitable as it has been used by Ford in their C-Max (which if i'm not mistaken is somewhat similar in size with exora ). And c-max use a 1.6L turbo engine. So similar to the engine that Proton are developing. Furthermore its a front transverse, so memang ngam lah.

    And quite a lot of malaysian seem to favour a CVT gearbox (like in previous City). Senang cerita…

    but i am a little worried about the cost of this gearbox. It must be expensive. or maybe perhaps it isn't ZF at all.. susah susah pakai aje g/b from Mitsu or Aisin.. anyone?

    Or would they use Renault DPO / Peugeot AL4 auto gearbox? They had it in the Waja 1.8.. but this is so remote, and for several reasons, i hope they wouldn't even think about it. For info, current PSA-BMW co-developed Prince engine (the 1.6L turbo found in Peugeot 308, 207) is coupled with this gearbox for (automatic models).

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  • intermilan on Oct 15, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    some more fact about ZF CFT 23 gearbox:

    ZF's CFT23 is a continuously variable transmission for front-wheel and all wheel-drive applications. It is an integrated transmission control unit with adaptive shift programs and a chain driven variator. Torque capacity is 250 Nm (185 lbs.-ft). Continuous variation of the rotational radii yields an infinite number of ratios.

    A major difference between the VT1F (ZF old CVT gearbox) and the CFT23 is that the CFT23 employs a torque converter.

    source: internet, of course.

    COPYRIGHT 2003 Diesel & Gas Turbine Publications

    COPYRIGHT 2008 Gale, Cengage Learning

    So will rasa macam normal auto (can feel the gear change – a little bit, rather than the rubber band feel of 'normal' CVT gearbox which is boring to some).

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  • palam on Oct 15, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    Looking forward to Proton’s future models and engines>>>>>>>>>>>>

    my EXORA are doin great,better than any mpv,GOOD JOB PROTON,

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  • mayor said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 9:28 am

    Brother, nobody will sell the GOLF GTi for less than RM100k even if there is no tax at all. Look at how much the car is selling in Singapore at the Open Market Price. If you can’t afford an RM100k plus car, you can never afford the GOLF GTi. Don’t just complaint la….

    —-

    Then why VW USA is selling the Golf GTI starting at $23830? That's RM 80 318 today. VW USA imports tax free? VW USA have no operating cost? Or they are just plain stupid?

    I can afford 200k car, but I don't want to pay 200k for a 70k car. Get that?

    wASte Bucket said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 11:42 am

    if a country do not protect its automotive industry..they wont have one..for example..see what is going on in the US automotive industry?what happened in British automotive industry??

    —–

    So what? Their people got to buy good, safe cars at good prices. Isn't that all that matters? You work for Proton?

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  • what different turbo or non turbo,

    when turbo it means higher output mare then originally 1.6,

    more stress, more heat ,new set of engine management ,cooling system,

    in order to to adapt this new torque and horsepower as reliability is one of the main concern.,,

    internally it should be uprated, material of component, heat dessipation, compression, timing, electronics will be going through a WHOLE new set of analysis and decisions, so that the engine is to be able to withstand with the power and reliability of a 1.6 turbo of its lifetime 60 or 70 normal use and 40 or 30 under extreme use throughout its lifespan with minimal maintanence,

    so its NOT simply to say BOLT ON TURBO and thats it, its everything from the car internally, and outside the chassis the handling the brakes gearbox, its a snowball effect for a single word 'turbo'

    not as simple as you think.

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  • Adios Amigos on Oct 15, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    irix said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 2:28 pm

    mayor said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 9:28 am

    Brother, nobody will sell the GOLF GTi for less than RM100k even if there is no tax at all. Look at how much the car is selling in Singapore at the Open Market Price. If you can’t afford an RM100k plus car, you can never afford the GOLF GTi. Don’t just complaint la….

    —-

    Then why VW USA is selling the Golf GTI starting at $23830? That’s RM 80 318 today. VW USA imports tax free? VW USA have no operating cost? Or they are just plain stupid?

    I can afford 200k car, but I don’t want to pay 200k for a 70k car. Get that?

    wASte Bucket said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 11:42 am

    if a country do not protect its automotive industry..they wont have one..for example..see what is going on in the US automotive industry?what happened in British automotive industry??

    —–

    So what? Their people got to buy good, safe cars at good prices. Isn’t that all that matters? You work for Proton?

    ————-

    YOU TALK ABOUT BULLSHIT…. IF PROTON NOT AVAILABLE, PRODUA MONOPOLY.. IF P1 & P2 NOT AVAILABLE, NAZA MONOPOLY… IF ALL NOT AVAILABLE, THAT"S MEAN YOU"RE DEAD ALREADY!!!

    please lor.. use your brain, you're in Malaysia… DONT TALK LIKE SHIT..

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 15, 2009 at 10:50 pm

    scottloeb said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 12:37 pm

    ACritics,

    Most of your arguments is understantable and accepted. However in the context of Malaysia, Toyota dont want Camry to be perceived as the red-white (or yellow and black during that period if I’m not mistaken) taxi in the introductory period of the model to replace Corona (somewhere in the 90’s) as a direct competitor to the Accord. In Thailand, Corolla special taxi grade (with strip off everything) being produce which is the lowest range in Corolla (altis or no altis – across all AE variant since the early days) purposely as the agreement between Thai authority and Siam Toyota/Toyota Motor Thailand, just like our Iswara Taxi grade with junks everywhere – LM Taxi and thank god they replaced that with BLM Saga, Waja, Innova, Avanza, Sentra, Optima and Sonata recently. And local Altis was planned to be made KLIA limo – some idiot from the company meddling with spec but main reason is they dont want their car to be the Limo (even if with the tax exemption – all taxi any type of car will get tax exemption). That is Malaysia distributor my friend. Better stop and cabut sebelum kena saman by Hibi-san or any lawyers a.k.a Ms Siemens haha

    ————————

    Scottloeb, u must be from TABM. Anyway, brand image doesn't impact any pricing in Malaysia. A lot of Merc and BMW also become Taxi here. So hopefully government can reduce tax for new cars. Let's say Vios 1.5 RM50K and Persona RM30K H-Line. Mesti aku tukar toyota LE aku.

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  • scottloeb on Oct 15, 2009 at 10:50 pm

    Irix,

    Dont compare with US. VW Golf GTI is not Big Mac like Economist use as their 1 of economic indicator. Big Mac dont use special tool (except for buns perhaps) and lettuce, pickels, ketchup, mayo all are abundance everywhere. Even with that kind of homologation the price of big mac is different between Malaysia and Japan and both use local content heavily. Procurement of parts for Golf GTI is not the same and cost differs from 1 country to another (Germany for Europe and Mexico for America). US trade rules with Mexico/Brazil (presuming the VW manufacturing base in Western hemisphere) might have zero tax compared to let say Malaysia and Australia or M'sia and Brazil. The labour rate is different, and so on and so fourth. Best is to compare same model in ASEAN countries, were labour rates, currency, tax are +- about the same. Jazz in Malaysia (Malaysia is always the highest spec) is more expensive around 15K due to import duty and excise duty compared to let say Indonesia. Not to consider the market positioning the distributor would like it to be as well.

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  • kinetics on Oct 15, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    Micheal said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 1:18 pm

    ..proton still among the best car seller in Malaysia… u have to accept the fact… proton selling well in iran, saudi arabia, australia… and some other country… where the ppl see and love proton more than we do…

    heloo michael u sure u got it right?

    Saudi Arabia?? It's a tax free haven there and people there can drive custom

    made Porche's. M'sian will b fuming when they find out the prices of a Gen2

    or Persona there. FYI it costs SRiyal 32,500 for a Gen2 and SR34000.Persona.

    ( 1ringgit=0.95riyal) Tax free.

    Australia?? selling a saga at Aussie $13000 when a Jazz is going for $15990

    Swift at $16990 drive away.

    Selling well?? i have doubts!

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  • scottloeb on Oct 15, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    ACritics,

    Aku rasa ko kerja HMSB haha. Aku tak kerja TABM, tadak kena mengena ngan UMWT or ASSB, Kayaba or even PMSB. Jugak bukan suku sakat DSZ, or proton Holding (RND, PTM, MVF, Main plant or Proton Edar). Sudah keluar from auto industry and now my IP happily says Houston sbb dulu tulih Nagoya.

    Aku pun harap camtuh, coming budget gomen can reduce the tax. But wait, my current ride will be besi buruk timbang kati and worthless, tak boleh buat d/p langsung. Ah well, life goes on lah.

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  • ether on Oct 15, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    In response to waste basket ,

    I agree with you that we need to protect each countries own car industry for the benefit of the nation BUT I DID NOT HEAR YOU MENTIONING protecting the own national car industry like malaysia thru subsidising and burdening Malaysia tax payer hard earn money at the expense of a few priviledges .

    Proton and Perodua is not generating in flow of foreign exchange for the wealth of the Malaysia like what Japan and South Korea is doing simply because Proton and Perodua rely heavily on domestic markets for survival .

    Furthermore , they rely too much of Foreign Participaton for Technology know how without INNOVATION means creating invisible outflow of our Foreign exchange .

    Proton and Perodua Cars only spell Reliability but without durability parts

    contents in the eyes of international preception as " a

    THird world country car products and brands" until proven ( take a lot of hard word to prove the product worthiness over time )

    Japanese are very patriotc and chavinis people and always taking advantage

    of others countries wealth . The japanese products are more or less imitation of western products created and innovated by westerners ten or more year ago and then putting into present market like Malaysia deemed as "Third world " Sometimes westerners drop the ideas and japanese pick up the ideas again and make it cheaper . JAPANESE ARE NOT INNOVATIVE IN TECHNOLOGY BUT INNOVATIVE IN COPYING OTHERS ( THE JAPS SLOGAN)

    KOREANS STILL HAVE SOME WAYS TO GO BEFORE EVERY CONSUMERS ARE SATIFY WITH THE THEIR PRODUCTS ,NOW ONLY A HAND FUL OF CONSUMERS ARE HAPPY AND A HAND FUL NOT SATISFY WITH THEIR PRODUCTS . KOREAN CARS LIKE HYUNDAI CAR ARE ONE OF THE TOP F

    OREIGN EXCHANGE EARNER FOR KOREA ECONOMY AND NEED TO BE PRESERVED AND LOOK AFTER BY THE GOVERNMENT .

    AS FOR CARS I WILL BUY ORIGINAL MAKERS LIKE MERCEDES , VOLVO OR OTHER INNOVATIVE CARS MAKERS . LEXUS IS JUST ANOTHER PREMIUM

    TOYOTA WITH JUST REFINEMENT WITHOUT INNOVATION BUT FULL OF C

    OPYCAT IDEAS IN A LEXUS BORROW FROM WESTERN TECHNOLOGY

    . SO WHY NOT BUY THE ORIGINALS INSTEAD OF LEXUS

    UNTIL PROTON AND PERODUA GET THEIR EQUATION RIGHT IN HELPING MALAYSIA TO EARN FOREIGN EXCHANGE THRU EXPORT , WHY SHOULD WE PROTECT PROTON AND PERODUA IN SUCKING HARD EARNED TAX PAYER MONIES AND ONLY MEANT FOR DOMESTIC MARKETS CONSUMPTION ONLY .

    CAN PROTON AND PERODUA GIVE MALAYSIA THE MUCH WANTED TOP

    FOREIGN EXCHANGE EARNERS TO SEEK AND DESERVE GOVERNMENT PROTECTION . ?

    THIS IS FOR PROTON AND PERODUA TO ANSWER US FIRST !!!

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  • si-fu (Member) on Oct 15, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    I am here…for those who r finding me….:P

    YES its a NEW transmission….MANUAL and AUTO! No more trans from mitsu! As for the engine…looks can be deceiving…."dont judge a book by its cover"…remember that phrase? I see lot of judges here…see photos only can come to ntah apa2 punya conclusion….haihhh….bila la mentaliti rakyat Malaysia nak berubah?

    Cheers!

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  • scottloeb said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 2:50 pm

    Irix,

    Dont compare with US…

    OK, compare with Brunei. Golf GTI about 40k Brunei Dollar, about RM95k. If prices in Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, and Indonesia are about the same as you claimed, why is it cheaper in Brunei? Also, why is it much much cheaper in Langkawi/Labuan?

    Just go to Honda Malaysia website where they publish Langkawi/Labuan prices. Honda Jazz full-spec for RM68k in Langkawi vs RM110k in Peninsular. Honda City RM62k vs RM90k.

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  • rexis on Oct 15, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7850/newproton…

    What is the King doing there?

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 15, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    scottloeb said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 3:00 pm

    ACritics,

    Aku rasa ko kerja HMSB haha. Aku tak kerja TABM, tadak kena mengena ngan UMWT or ASSB, Kayaba or even PMSB. Jugak bukan suku sakat DSZ, or proton Holding (RND, PTM, MVF, Main plant or Proton Edar). Sudah keluar from auto industry and now my IP happily says Houston sbb dulu tulih Nagoya.

    Aku pun harap camtuh, coming budget gomen can reduce the tax. But wait, my current ride will be besi buruk timbang kati and worthless, tak boleh buat d/p langsung. Ah well, life goes on lah.

    ——————————

    HMSB? no. never. My cousin brother in law was an executive in HMSB before. About automotive, maybe i read to much automtotive mags blogs etc2. That's why i don't know technical.

    Me also just deserve what should be. Car is necessity here therefore the G shouldn't put too high tax like current. Imagine, my cousin brother in law just spend 1/3 of monthly earnings just for monthly installment for Persona. plus petrol already spend 1/2 mth salary. not include house rent so on so on. Just enough to survive. Saving? not think at all. imagine a normal operator. kesian.

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  • Xiri (VS Irix on Oct 15, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    irix said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 3:21 pm

    scottloeb said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 2:50 pm

    Irix,

    Dont compare with US…

    OK, compare with Brunei. Golf GTI about 40k Brunei Dollar, about RM95k. If prices in Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, and Indonesia are about the same as you claimed, why is it cheaper in Brunei? Also, why is it much much cheaper in Langkawi/Labuan?

    Just go to Honda Malaysia website where they publish Langkawi/Labuan prices. Honda Jazz full-spec for RM68k in Langkawi vs RM110k in Peninsular. Honda City RM62k vs RM90k.

    —-

    So, your problem No money but want to buy Golf GTi izzit?? haha.. pity you bro… Just stay in Langkawi lor broder… Peninsular for rich people only…

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  • sohai_EMAK_LU on Oct 15, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    GUNE OTAK SESAPA YG XTAU PASAL TAX STRUCTURE N VARIABLE COSTS TLG SHUT THE FUCK UP N MASUK KOLEJ KA APA KA MAIN SOHAI KA.

    KALAU MAU MURAH,

    U DUDUK US LA.

    TP TAKAT GAJI 40 50 K USD PER ANNUM MAU TAX 25 PERC LA,OK X?

    N THIS GOES ON EVERY YEAR.KAU BYAR TAX SETAHUN BERAPA?????

    10K?MY ASS LA.

    PEOPLE LIKE US WHO BUY BMWs,MERCs HONDAs TOYOTAs INI LA YG HANTAR ANAK KAMU MASUK SEKOLAH BERSUBSIDI.MASUK UNI EVEN X PANDAI.

    C?1 MALAYSIA

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  • Why get angry? I don't collect the Peninsular-Langkawi price difference. Almost everyone outside of Langkawi pays that difference. Why many Malaysians support the high car prices? Just see the posts above.

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  • autojohndoe on Oct 16, 2009 at 12:10 am

    irix said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 3:21 pm

    OK, compare with Brunei. Golf GTI about 40k Brunei Dollar, about RM95k. If prices in Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, and Indonesia are about the same as you claimed, why is it cheaper in Brunei? Also, why is it much much cheaper in Langkawi/Labuan?

    ___________________________

    then, u go buy car at Langkawi…

    easy isnt it? why still complain?

    hoho

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  • anyone else want to pay high prices for cars? OK, specifically, anyone else willing to pay higher prices than in Langkawi? Apparently some people don't mind.

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 16, 2009 at 12:22 am

    sohai_EMAK_LU said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 3:51 pm

    —————-

    Alien?

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  • atkop on Oct 16, 2009 at 12:26 am

    haha si-fu is here..finally.

    apa kabar brader ?, i thought you're one of the 70 "lucky" personnel sent/to be shipped to England?

    anyhow,

    wrt to tranny/pwrtrain..any possibility of a rwd from proton in the pipeline?

    any possibility of a sux/xover "abandon" project to be resurfaced?

    what kind of engine/s variants tested/proposed to be installed in the new wrm?

    nice to hv you here again, why so many days of hiatus?

    rgds

    atkop,

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  • scgtimk1 on Oct 16, 2009 at 12:37 am

    wah honda jazz wihout tax is RM68K???? wooooh

    Better buy proton exora then, almost same price, same spec with SRS, EBD and ABS but with much bigger space, bigger engine, higher engine output, more seating capacity etc.

    The only thing that the Honda is bigger is the Inflated Ego of the owner.

    Heck with RM68K is more expensive than any Proton passenger car.

    I just bought the Saga BLM 1.6 at RM38K much much cheaper than the fugly Honda without tax and can easliy outrun and out handle that crap Honda at anytime and anyday with so much more money to spare and can much easily find performance parts for the BLM.

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 16, 2009 at 12:41 am

    autojohndoe said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 4:10 pm

    irix said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 3:21 pm

    OK, compare with Brunei. Golf GTI about 40k Brunei Dollar, about RM95k. If prices in Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, and Indonesia are about the same as you claimed, why is it cheaper in Brunei? Also, why is it much much cheaper in Langkawi/Labuan?

    ___________________________

    then, u go buy car at Langkawi…

    easy isnt it? why still complain?

    hoho

    ————————

    Bro, talk only is always easy. Understand his argument above about tax too high. Proton protectinism is OK but the matter is TAX is too high for others.

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  • Knoxx on Oct 16, 2009 at 12:54 am

    ahh.. so weird?? most of the comments above is not about the engines technology.. but focus on tax, prices & etc..

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  • subhero on Oct 16, 2009 at 12:59 am

    proud to be malaysian product.

    im using malaysian product.

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 16, 2009 at 1:05 am

    scgtimk1 said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 4:37 pm

    Heck with RM68K is more expensive than any Proton passenger car.

    ——————–

    Kenalah dgn teknologi yang dia offer. F1paddle shift, Vtec, CVT, Autoclimate aircond etc. mold dia pun mahal2. bukan macam BLM seketul je. Tgk dashboard dia. berapa mold dia pakai? meter combi tgk? so so aesthetic and modern. BLM gearstick macam…agak2 BLM berapa harga kalau ade semua2 kat atas tue?..Proton i hope you can improve.

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  • subconhero on Oct 16, 2009 at 1:17 am

    nak buat pe ada paddle shift tu?.. kalo takat tukar2 gear mcm auto..

    campro rilek je manual auto. tertapau juge standard jazz vtec tu..

    alah mentaliti org malaysia kita ni je.. keter mesti honda,toyota. baru idup ada makna. org pandang.. tu je.. jalan laju same je. accident kemik sama je.. its just PROUD to use JAPANESE CAR je.. that all

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  • apa-apa aje lah on Oct 16, 2009 at 1:24 am

    Automotive_Critics said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 5:05 pm

    scgtimk1 said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 4:37 pm

    Heck with RM68K is more expensive than any Proton passenger car.

    ——————–

    Kenalah dgn teknologi yang dia offer. F1paddle shift, Vtec, CVT, Autoclimate aircond etc. mold dia pun mahal2. bukan macam BLM seketul je. Tgk dashboard dia. berapa mold dia pakai? meter combi tgk? so so aesthetic and modern. BLM gearstick macam…agak2 BLM berapa harga kalau ade semua2 kat atas tue?..Proton i hope you can improve.

    ———————————–

    Automotive_Critics , proton wat camtu coz nak cut cost..utk jdkan kerete tu mampu milik.maklom la..gaji/pndapatan rakyat malaysia ni brp sangat kalo dibandingkan dengan harga barang2 keperluan asas? bila dibandingkan ngn barang keperluan asas(makanan,pakaian,tmpat tinggal) pndapatan rakyat malaysia ni ciput je. even org yg gaji 3000 RM pon x cukup kalo dok KL tuh. so, bila proton buat kereta simple dan murah..tu utk rakyat malaysia yg gaji ciput nih. agak2 la..kalo honda wat kete sama metarial mcm proton, brapa harga honda leh kasi? tp aku rasa diarang x kisah pon psal kebajikan org ramai nih..mentaliti kapitalis maaa..all is about profit/laba/keuntungan.

    harga BLM sure mcm tu jazz tu jugak kalo ada semea bnda2 yg ada kat jazz skrg.tp..sekali lg..proton buat kete murah untuk rakyat malaysia yg berpendapatan x berapa nak tinggi tu. so,semua org boleh pakai kenderaan yg lbh selamat.

    to me proton has improved alot..but, i also agree they've to improve more to gain back consumer thrust.be patient fren, to me proton baru je lahir(sejak DSZ jadi CEO)

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 16, 2009 at 1:34 am

    apa-apa aje lah said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 5:24 pm

    harga BLM sure mcm tu jazz tu jugak kalo ada semea bnda2 yg ada kat jazz skrg.tp..sekali lg..proton buat kete murah untuk rakyat malaysia yg berpendapatan x berapa nak tinggi tu. so,semua org boleh pakai kenderaan yg lbh selamat

    ——————————

    Murah ke? Saga 1.6 kat Aus pon lebih murah dari Saga1.3 Mline kat sini. Mesti harga kat Australia tu pun masih ade untung kan? Kalau tak takkan leh buat bisnes kat sana. Aku rasa murah lagi kat Australia kot dari sini. Malahan income sana lagi besar kot.

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  • Automotive_Critics said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 6:29 am

    If this only normal campro with turbo, i think it is a waste. Better buy mitsu obsolete 4G63 which is also normal+turbo. Mitsu already replace it with mivec turbo which equal to cps+turbo. I don’t know.

    ___________________________________________________

    Not Equal. MIVEC is more advance than CPS.

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  • celicazz said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 6:41 am

    how come u say it is a waste?

    buying mitsu’s wont assured low price. making own would ensure that it has economic of scale to join other campros… plus, NA campro has high output of 110bhp, only the delivery needed to be adjust. turbo would do good.

    ___________________________________________

    Do you actually what is economy of scale as you talk about?

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  • The campro is being turbo'ed because proton does not have its own large capacity engine in its range. To control the cost of its engines (rather than buying from others, and being tied to their asking price) proton has no other choice short of creating a new engine from scratch.

    As for adding the turbo, it is not as simple as bolting one on, tuning it and calling it a day. The design of the campro head, as it is optimised for high revs and without turbo, the cooling capacities (heat removal) of the DOHC head is already at its maximum. With the added heat generated by the turbo, the standard head will surely operating at the tip of its safety margin. Other things that a lage manufacturer has to design into its engine is the environmental requirements like EURO standards. These are only a part of many things considered in engne design. In all, alot of factors are taken into account when adding a turbo, not like the pokok ceri type of conversion.

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  • scgtimk1 on Oct 16, 2009 at 2:44 am

    Automotive_Critics said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 5:34 pm

    apa-apa aje lah said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 5:24 pm

    harga BLM sure mcm tu jazz tu jugak kalo ada semea bnda2 yg ada kat jazz skrg.tp..sekali lg..proton buat kete murah untuk rakyat malaysia yg berpendapatan x berapa nak tinggi tu. so,semua org boleh pakai kenderaan yg lbh selamat

    ——————————

    Murah ke? Saga 1.6 kat Aus pon lebih murah dari Saga1.3 Mline kat sini. Mesti harga kat Australia tu pun masih ade untung kan? Kalau tak takkan leh buat bisnes kat sana. Aku rasa murah lagi kat Australia kot dari sini. Malahan income sana lagi besar kot.

    —————————————————————

    Are you pretending to be dumb or just plain dumb

    Proton are tax by gorvernment. Sales tax is 10% with some excise duty on the inported transmission.

    So naturally its gonna be expensive here.

    Just answer me this question.

    Do you really know the exact selling price of Proton BLM in Australia???? As far as I know proton only target the price and not finalized the OTR price yet.

    You are just bashing without facts.

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  • keyboard.rosak on Oct 16, 2009 at 2:46 am

    PaulTan,

    you'll get more picture of the engine in the Bulitein Utama report

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_H3lv9KN_k

    i can assure you that its not a simple Bolt On Turbo.

    A lot of part changed to ensure reliability and improve from current engine.

    there won't be CPS, but it'll have VVT

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  • milanRed (Member) on Oct 16, 2009 at 3:12 am

    lightning mcqueen said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 8:55 am

    milanred! Proton is not gov agency. So u donot pay their salary. They have to work for it, kereta no selling, they will have to gulung tikar la. Respect them like u want people respect you.

    =kereta not selling, then have to buck up, in this economic of scale, being a niche player is more practical rather then joining the mainstream. Developing a turbo engine maybe beneficial, but developing an economical/affordable drivetrain is reasonably practical especially so in with AFTA region. Regardless of the kinks still being work out, in the long run its better off to P1. Being niche can lead to main player.

    I know for a fact proton/lotus have develop a hybrid drive engine, but there is no continuity. You just imagine competing on our own backyard with hybrid technology fr honda, toyota… and with our govt protection, dont you think we could get better deal in the end. and we as consumers can start enjoying 'pocket friendly' car. Heck, if still cant sell the cars, at least can sell the drive train to others and live off the royalty.. ie like the campro engine/gen2 mould that they licence off to China.

    Respect people point of view if you want to be taken seriously.

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  • kichiki on Oct 16, 2009 at 3:17 am

    to who highlighted the transmission…

    yes, as what had been answered by si-fu, p1 will use new gearbox for both manual and auto…

    development is on going, i heard they will introduce new transmission assembly with new engine under current project…

    hope the gear shifting and performance become better than MMC's transmission la…

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  • mystvearn on Oct 16, 2009 at 4:00 am

    Exora needs a bigger engine, everyone knows that. Anything that can do 200+ hp will be good enough.

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  • milanRed (Member) on Oct 16, 2009 at 4:09 am

    concurring with kichiki n si-fu.

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  • wASte Bucket on Oct 16, 2009 at 4:29 am

    ether said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 3:03 pm

    In response to waste basket

    ________________________________________________________________________

    first of all your asked a very good question,which is hard to answer.

    but if you look at the example you gave.

    japanese and koreans took a long long time to be where they are right now..

    only in the late 90s they(japanese) became a reputable brand.

    not in malaysia..i mean globally..it took them 2 world wars,2 atom bombs and about 80 years of evolution for their product to be globally accepted.

    japanese cars in malaysia were famous and still famous because they were cheaper to own in the 60's and 70's plus they needed such low maintenance compared to western and european makes.

    when proton came in the pic..the tax structures were changed..we malaysian dont have the 80 years time of evolution..in a short 25 years and domestic market only to rely on we are doing ok..

    just that proton need to improve fast and the pressure is more with every proton coming out now..The government need to invest now to bring the foreign cash inflow as u mention.It is better than doing nothing.

    about the tax..i always prefer to know where my money is going than not knowing what happened to all my tax money..

    and about perodua…i wont comment cause the are just helping the japanese..and our money is going out of the country…i prefer proton's learning process than selling for japanese!!!what you think??

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  • Mufasa on Oct 16, 2009 at 4:34 am

    Murah ke? Saga 1.6 kat Aus pon lebih murah dari Saga1.3

    —————————————–

    compare harrga kereta aja ke? what about roadtax? petrol? sugar, income tax that could reach 50%? … so we better migrate?

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  • makan makan on Oct 16, 2009 at 5:09 am

    saga 1.6 di aussie not the driveaway price.alloy rim pun tak de..Most of the car selling there, regardless lah what model, aurion, camry, accord euro, mazda 2, 3, 5 bla-bla, the price quoted usully not included the acc. like alloy rims etc..

    so just dont think the price displayed is actually the nett price..

    tah tah GST pun x include

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  • old timers on Oct 16, 2009 at 5:41 am

    1Mesia equals to 1Price for car…price in langkawi & rest of mesia also different…..

    can't they do that in mesia? How to achieve 1Mesia then…hehe. of course, if mesia gov does that, 70 Potong's engineers cannot spend taxpayer money on 'vacation' in uk, hence, they hv to work their ass off…which they are not used to..

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  • not_ah_beng on Oct 16, 2009 at 5:56 am

    So what?

    Cheap rubbish.

    Turbo-charge blah blah blah……..all a bunch of BS. Come on, did you know some modi shops at Kuchai can turbo-charge your Myvi Engine 1.3 DVVT to squeeze out extra 50-60hp. Or can exchange for Daihatsu YRV turbocharged engine as well.

    So come on, low-grade aftermarket mod shops oso can do this sh!t long time ago la! What you trying to con us Potong!

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  • eyesore2 on Oct 16, 2009 at 5:58 am

    old timers said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 9:41 pm

    1Mesia equals to 1Price for car…price in langkawi & rest of mesia also different…..

    can’t they do that in mesia? How to achieve 1Mesia then…hehe. of course, if mesia gov does that, 70 Potong’s engineers cannot spend taxpayer money on ‘vacation’ in uk, hence, they hv to work their ass off…which they are not used to..

    __________________________________________________________________________

    Lol..the most argumentative of all the comments. I bet you don't have an iota of idea of what is happening around you. Prftth..one word. Plain stupid.

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  • not_ah_beng on Oct 16, 2009 at 6:04 am

    wASte Bucket:

    when proton came in the pic..the tax structures were changed..we malaysian dont have the 80 years time of evolution..in a short 25 years and domestic market only to rely on we are doing ok..

    —————————-

    Doing OK??!?

    THIS is your definition of "doing OK"?

    Average time for Potong model "refresh" is >10 years is call "doing OK"? Lets go through ok?

    Saga: FINALLY replace in 2008 after almost 30 years pushing the same old junk to Msian public.

    Wira: Replace in 2007 (finally) by Persona, after 14 years.

    Waja: 10 years already replacement nowhere near (except back to rebadge Mitsu LOL).

    Perdana: 15 years still no replacement in sight.

    Sawi: LOL. Just LOL.

    I think we can forget about the "nightmares" call Arena and Juara.

    This one you call "doing OK"? All I got to say is, your standards damn low.

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  • makan makan on Oct 16, 2009 at 6:09 am

    Hard to ignore since you comment appear after me.

    You seem very confuse,write without thinking.. what actually had happened to you lately?

    takkan menopause kot?

    ————————————————————

    1Mesia equals to 1Price for car…price in langkawi & rest of mesia also different…..

    can’t they do that in mesia? How to achieve 1Mesia then…hehe. of course, if mesia gov does that, 70 Potong’s engineers cannot spend taxpayer money on ‘vacation’ in uk, hence, they hv to work their ass off…which they are not used to..

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  • hkgkg on Oct 16, 2009 at 6:34 am

    dear not_ah_beng,

    as for korean cars,

    i had saw with my bare eyes countless of not-soo old kia carnival/naza citra which had dep-shit troublesome engine which resulting in full-overhauled…i couldnt see the same trend for our Proton

    personally,

    KIA are much nonsense to buy than proton…u guys owning naza citra?? u will surprised each spark-plug costs u rm150(v6 engine which need rm900 each time to replace spark-plug))

    i forgot many people here doesnt even owned a crappy korean car as comparison to our proton–& they keep talking nonsense-baseless

    FUNNY

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  • hkgkg on Oct 16, 2009 at 6:46 am

    not_ah_beng,

    if u really have the guts to prove that proton is really all-round silly car,plz check & wandering around the workshop at your area coz now im also can show u 2 units of 2005 naza citra(yes 2,not 1) at the same time had to be full-overhauled–u say that co-incident???i dont think so-since already too many korean cars(made after 2000) in-front of my eyes keeps full-overhauled(in the past 2 years made a frequent visits to several workshops)

    u say korean car are really that reliable???????proton much better!!!

    these juniors really dont know whats the real scenario nowadays(& they ignorance to learn-that is)

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  • FAReast on Oct 16, 2009 at 6:54 am

    Hopefully that Proton can come out with a variable valve timing technology + A twin-clutch transmission + rear wheel drive + better design car = an affordable price.

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  • keyboard rosak on Oct 16, 2009 at 6:56 am

    si-fu said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 3:12 pm

    I am here…for those who r finding me….:P

    YES its a NEW transmission….MANUAL and AUTO! No more trans from mitsu! As for the engine…looks can be deceiving….”dont judge a book by its cover”…remember that phrase? I see lot of judges here…see photos only can come to ntah apa2 punya conclusion….haihhh….bila la mentaliti rakyat Malaysia nak berubah?

    Cheers!

    ———————————————————

    Sifu, gua ingat lu da resign..hehe

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  • nazri on Oct 16, 2009 at 7:04 am

    yeah naza ria near my house also tersadai because of engine rosak already. i dont know how the owner take care his mpv…

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  • sifu,

    so for campro its already have iafm, cps, vvt, and turbo. i belive,

    if vvt+cps it will act like variocam plus like in porsche NA engine, am i right?

    further question, is any pick and mix of engine feature above to be practiced for variety engine spec and type? for variety protons model?

    my last, is this campro turbo vvt in this picture includes CPS in?

    thanks,,

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  • pontiax on Oct 16, 2009 at 9:03 am

    basher proton.. kuat giler.. low quality la, no improvement la, no replacement model for so long la, savvy is a crap la.. tapi still using proton..

    blame gov, we using craps, becoz they cant buy 'tax causing higher price' car..

    In the end still using a proton car. blame gov for tax to protecting proton eventhough there are many reasons for the implement just like they have only mentality that this current gov need to be change. They are hoping, pakatan will take over, so that they will reduce the imported tax and reduce the oil price.. LOLZ..

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  • hkgkg on Oct 16, 2009 at 9:05 am

    the most important is mechanical reliability….no use add turbo if it only can survive no more than 5years of usage!!!!!!what do u expect from all low-grade aftermarket mod "ah-beng" shops???add turbo than 2-3 years your engine kong/barai?????

    thats what proton now striving todo now—turbo engine but reliabilty of N/A engine –& plz dont compared with german & japanese(plz compare with korean cars-which i can say full of crap)

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  • wASte Bucket on Oct 16, 2009 at 11:22 am

    not_ah_beng said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 10:04 pm

    This one you call “doing OK”? All I got to say is, your standards damn low.

    __________________________________________________________________________

    Mr not_ah_beng,

    because people like you who makes this country such a place..

    to be a developed country,the majority have to a have developed advance mentality and a positive thinking attitude..

    you were just looking at the negative side of proton..

    ok in my term is,

    when you are young..you live with your parents and rely totally on them,

    when you are a teenager..you do certain things yourself and less dependent on your parents..

    when you go to college,you learn useful things which will help you survive on your own…

    when you have the skill and ability to be independent(a job)..you can make your own choice..whether you wanna continue living with your parents or live alone..whether u wanna get married or live single..

    and your choices may depend on your situation,if you are doing ok..you can live yourself,you wanna be rich quick,marry a rich gal,you wanna try living the hard way,live separately from you family…so many choice in life…

    why i told you this story is because…

    in life…there is no way for you to born as man without going thru whatever i mentioned..you cant walk the day u were born without crawling,sitting and standing first!!

    what i see in proton is the positive side of it…

    they started with the help of the G and mitsubishi…

    they made efforts to produce their own car(i dont see this effort by perodua or naza)…the waja…

    from own car to own engine…then more cars by R&D..a MPV..

    now more engine options and even a transmission(dont know for sure)

    sooner or later they are going global…now there is good sales number outside malaysia…

    progress is always stage by stage….

    for people like you Mr not_ah_beng, who look at things is a negative way..will always progress negatively..i wonder if walked the first day you were born…or able solve advanced calculus questions during standard one and graduated the same year you enrolled in school…

    come on man…model T from ford sold more than 20 years…saab 9-5 been around more than 12 years..volvo s60 came out same time as waja..still selling…mercedes used to have a life span of 10 years..

    as long as i can see progress…i wouldnt complain…

    if you look at perodua…they rebadge daihatsu when they started…and they are continuing the same thing…so progress is zero!!!

    so if you standard is too high..please care to explain what you expect proton to do…that will be helpful!!

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  • old timers on Oct 16, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    eyesore2 said,

    October 15, 2009 @ 9:58 pm

    "………………………………………….

    Lol..the most argumentative of all the comments. I bet you don’t have an iota of idea of what is happening around you. Prftth..one word. Plain stupid."

    —> I agree with u…1mesia concept is really plain stupid…

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  • farghmee on Oct 16, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    ok la so called not_ah_beng,

    proton buat 1 turbo & ko buat 1 turbo.

    then g test sama2.

    mana2 enjin yg ble tahan cycle* lg byk, dia menang, ok?

    *dlm engineering, reliability test selalunye melibatkan cycle.

    bahasa mudahnye ialah "jangka hayat".

    lg banyak cycle boleh tahan sblm rosak, makanye lg bagus.

    kalu xtau, tanya. kalu tanya orang xmarah.

    kalu xtau & xtanya, pastu buat cm hebat diri sendiri..God Forbid.

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  • scottloeb on Oct 16, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    haha. Brunei ka.. Do you know in Brunei you cant get citizenship even if you're born there until you pass certain test? Do you know the Brunei govt even send people to Makkah to do Hajj for free as part of their bonus? The Quran teacher being paid by the govt on a standard teacher's salary just to teach people to read Quran? That's how rich Brunei as a country. Abundance in resource, invest their money everywhere, with very low population (arnd 400k) and citizen. No democracy, no voting, only consultative task by appointed legislative council appointed by the Sultan. Melayu Islam Beraja, that's their way. So no problem on tax even. 2nd hand car in Brunei? Better throw away you car to nearby Miri, Malaysian flocks like crazy to buy them. Landys Disco is about SGD 20K or less.

    And no alcohol in Brunei as well as it is forbidden, it being disguise as Chinese Tea in Chinese restaurant only.

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  • Wira 1.8(A) DOHC UK on Oct 16, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    I just worry about the turbo campro can last long or not. Normally turbo engine should have strong engine crank and body, right?

    Also, just develop engine is not enough, how good an engine coupled with a lousy gearbox also will be a lousy car, right? proton should develop or join up other gearbox manufacturer to have a 5-speed or 6 speed manual/auto gearbox.

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  • Proton….ride and handling dah superb, now time to improve the engine power so that they can smoke all the T, H, N & bla bla bla marque.

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  • Do you really think they work for it? They won’t even gulung tikar because their direct competitors have been priced out of their playing field. How many can buy a Honda City at RM90k when the “equivalent” Proton Persona is only RM55k? You want one more comparison? How many people will buy a VW Golf GTI at RM200k when the Proton Neo CPS is around RM60k? Try pricing the VW Golf at even RM80k and see if Neo CPS can survive. Who in their right mind will buy a Proton Perdana at RM90k when the latest Hyundai Sonata is priced at RM80k as in South Korea?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The persona is GENUINELY CHEAP at RM55k.

    A Golf GTI costs about AUD65k OTR with insurance in australia…that's about RM200k. The persona over here is still only about AUD18k.

    A new City is effectively about $28k (RM86k) OTR with insurance for an auto midrange model (similar to ones released in malaysia).

    IGNORE ONLINE PRICES, they do not include delivery, registration, plates and insurance!

    The OTR price of foreign cars are still more expensive in Thailand and Indonesia so pls dont complain (ask your friends there if you dont believe me).

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  • someone state the price of golf gti is usd 23830 to be smart…ha..ha..it is the starting price and the lowest spec of golf. dont u see any ** price quoted??? normallay, the price of cars outside malaysia are not on the road price. malaysian quoted on the road price. the price of golf gti exclude TAXES, destination charges,optional equipment,REGISTRATION,DEALERS CHARGERS AND EMMISIONS CHARGES.

    DESTINATION CHARGE alone usd700++. that is still not include insurance chargers. haiya.. australian tax structures is defferent to us, thats why u see that it is cheaper and the price is not on the road price.

    HOW MANY TIMES I NEED TO TELL U THAT P1 CARS HAVE TAX ALSO.

    Acritics said that honda jazz without taz is rm65k justifies it prices because using vtec engine. it is the same technology with cps,even the application is different. so whats so advance about vtec engine in the city???has it ever won the best engine in the world??? if VW 1.4 tsi, I solute. thats why p1 now doing forced induction. for those who admire vvt so much, take a look at the engine of the year 1.4 tsi, without any vvt. so vvt is outdatedlah…

    sebenarnya, stakat ni, xda sgt teknologi baru cume improvement dr technologi lama. rotary,boxer,vvt,vvl,turbo,supercharge,vim and many more telah lama ada dalam dunia ni. cume diimprovekan supaya penuhi peraturan emisi dan menambah power kereta. cps ke, mivec ke, vtec ke, vanoske, vvtike, sama aje,ada pro dan kontra.

    sapa kata honda city justify sebab pkai vtec, come onla, used ur brainla. jangan main ckp aje. kalu stakat google aje xguna, blaja dulu automotive engineering, kerja dulu bhagian pwrterrain dpt mana2 syarikat, jadi engineer dulu kat situ, barula tau langit tinggi rendah. pas2 kata good qualitylah plastic, paddle shift f1??? style aje bro,tapi bukan paddle shift f1 betul2. gearpun auto. org paddle shift pkai automated manual mcam alfa@ferari, xpun pakai twin cluch. kalu pkai auto conventional@cvt yg pakai simulasi gear(padahal xda gear pun, tulis je seven speed),xyahlah.

    ada plak ckp vios itu canggih, super ectlah. super ect tu sama mcm invecs 2, itupun xtauke automotive critics??? dan vios yg highest specs je ada. vvti tu sama je taraf dengan cps. janganlah korang terpengaruh sangat.

    japanese people really good in marketing. a plain example, if the centre meter in vios is really good as toyota engineer said, why dont they implement it to all their cars especially lexus??? why dont they use that technology and advanced idea to their highend products????

    so u can see how easy they con u malaysian. they cheat u easily because many of us are really taksub dgn kete jepun. bg vios pun dah meleleh air idung,sedangkan itu low cost product untuk negara yang xberapa nak maju rakyatnya. cume sekarang je dia sharing platform dengan yris untuk jimat cost dan jual sebagai belta kat jepun sebab nk jual kete yg low cost kt rakyat dia, tp kena ingat, walupun shating platform, xsemestinya dia punya steel guna yg sama.

    xramai manufacturer berani reveal berapa kuat dan rigid nye chasis kete diaorang. p1 ada bagi maklumat sebab p1 x takut. itu adalah fakta. cubelah cari fakta sikit tentang rigidity kete vios kesayangan anda and honda city kesayangan anda. banding je dengan saga yg kokak yg chasisnya torsional and bending rigidity dia 17000nm.

    so silakan google cari maklumat pasal kete kesayangan andan k. eh, vios kat malaysia berapa euroncap??? jgn bagi result kete ket jepun, vios spec malaysia aje.

    oklah,saja je berceloteh, GB auto, manual and cvt from german. of course, pheonix need his leegs to help him to take off ;-). persona fl, new 32 bit advance engine management and etc. adios amigos

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  • nizam80 (Member) on Oct 16, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    theking said,

    Proton bashers keep on bashing with stupid comment!

    Anyway for the Phoenix project, new gearbox is in the making too and no more Mitsubishi but from well known Deutschland company.

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Is this true or just rumors? If it is indeed true, then it's great news. No more old Mitsubishi 4-speed auto!! I have always wanted Proton to actually use new auto gearboxes for their cars. So does this new gearbox applicable for a Manual version too. I hoping for at least a 5-speed auto and also a 6-speed Manual version.

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  • initial R on Oct 16, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    Wira 1.8(A) DOHC UK Spec said,

    October 16, 2009 @ 9:20 am

    ————————————————————-

    Thats why 70 proton engineers go to UK with mission, to develope phoenix project that involve new type of proton engine & new type of gear box with one of they study is turbocharge for Proton engine. So the developement of Campro turbo engine not just upgrade normal Campro to turbo but also for development of new engine. It's easy to say that you go to any ah beng shop to install turbo to Campro engine. Proton don't want to be like Toyota introduce Vios TRD sportivo version with just look astatic but Proton can give the new proton owner the factory turbo engine fitted that come with warranty. It just that simple. The progress is there, so have be wait for some time to get it realize. For Proton with this 25 age, i can say they make lots of progress compare from other brand even right now Proton production is small (maybe less 5% from major auto market). I don't care what ppl said as long i know what proton progress coz until now i have own already 3 proton car (iswara sold due to own new Accord), Savvy (still own) & Exora (new famili). So I see progress there. Harap Proton akan sediakan pakej berwaranty untuk owner exora sekarang. Mana tau kalau nak upgrade ke turbo dengan harga berpatutan. :)

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  • fasgen on Oct 16, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    Malaysian should be Malaysian. inilah padahnya terlalu pandang ke timur. nampak jepun je. sampai dah tak nampak negara sendiri. apa yang kita buat seme tak kene. nak buat teknologi pun seme kondem…. mentaliti tu dah berkarat dengan jepun. apa benda teknologi jepun dia boleh bagi kat automotif kita. diaorang tu kedekut. 15 tahun P1 dgn mitsu… tak dapat apa. baik kita beli lotus tu. buat barang sendiri.. toyota pun bukan bagus sangat barang dia… cuma nama dia dah lama…. aku pernah baca artikel… toyota mengaku chasis myvi buka bagus sangat… cuma rupa dia orang tengok melelah ingus… bab tu orang beli. dia mengaku chasis savvy lebih baik dari myvi dia…. lalu toyota berangan… kalau dia dapat proton dia boleh buat untung…. dia boleh jual savvy bubuh brand toyota dia… cuma kita tak nak mengaku kemajuan teknologi dan otak orang malaysia kita….. saje je…. aku tetap sokong proton…. sebab proton bagi kerja kat ramai orang malaysia… dapat dia kerja dan senang hidup. dont forget to thank to GOD.

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  • CucukMan on Oct 16, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    360 said,

    October 16, 2009 @ 10:06 am

    —-

    haha..too much explanation.. just ignore them lah…

    I'm waiting the Real TURBOCHARGED from our beloved PROTON.. I heard, TURBO CAMPRO similar concept as the TSI twincharger technology in the Volkswagen Golf Mk5? Izzit? 150 bhp is powerfull enough to beat 141bhp Civic 1.8.

    Next time my target to cucuk WV Golf.. hahaha…

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  • new gearbox.from proton? hopefully running w/out problem. auto gearbox still ok for me.

    AMT system. example citroen C4 are using full hidraulic AMT system. If u have a fren in brookland citroen auto service. ask him about this model . Got recall for ecu/gearbox bla..bla..

    cost to replace the hidraylic pump can cost up to rm 7-8k(savvy amt hidraulic around rm 2-.2.5k)

    special update ecu for malaysia only also got.

    ..just sharing..

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  • Eyesore on Oct 16, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    the displacement of the turbo engine will enable the use of 6 speed manual and CVT i guess….. German company ek? I think I kno which one hehehe….

    Automotive Critics… reading ur comments…. sometime u give quite good points but without good reason / facts it will be just opinions.. with false facts it makes u look like an uneducated person talking from his @$$

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  • gen2lama on Oct 16, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    goood 360…..i like it….

    Vios J more high tech …perghhhh….buy la…

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  • theking on Oct 16, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    Nizam80,

    True for the new transmission system for Proton.

    A/T, M/T and CVT from Deutschland but not ZF.

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  • LeBronJames on Oct 16, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    Dear all,

    Good day, I wonder what is the big "Hu ha" about Proton Turbo. Give them a chance and test it first hand. If they fail us again, I don't even want to talk about them anymore.

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  • pulge on Oct 16, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    The engine is slightly different in design even without the turbo unit. An all new engine or redesign of the Campro?

    I do agree that Proton should develop larger displacement engines (NA or force-inducted) to cater more market segment. Plus hybrid and electric powertrains.

    si-fu and theking can hint?

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  • scgtimk1 on Oct 16, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    Very true 360.

    I'm an Automotive Engineer and I agree with you.

    This bashers who just talk without using brain.

    This same people still think VTEC is like 'wahyu' a divine technology sent by God that no other thing can come close to it.

    This people also think that Vios and Myvi is the best car that ever came out.

    Really salute these Japanese for successfully brainwashing most Malaysian.

    .

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  • theking, so the rough idea about Phoenix project is Proton's new tramission sys? or there is more than that? thx!

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  • scottloeb on Oct 16, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    City 5 speed auto – actually its a 4 speeder with OD.

    Vios 4 speed with super ECT – pure marketing. Normal 4 speed A/T

    VTEC – NA with valve timing (fix) – What the difference with CPS?

    So? Marketing gimmick je.

    Turbo Campro – betul2 korang kena explain to the public. Roslan dulu ada cakap 'the difference between 1.8T and 2.0 for PFR is like Semi D and Bungalow house. Both might have same build up area (power output) but different status'. Malaysian pikir 1.6 mesti tak cukup for exora tapi Rush 1.5/Avanza 1.3 7 seater org beli jugak. Wish 1.8 ngan 2.0 diorang beli 1.8 sbb 'JDM – Japan Spec'. Good luck on new transmission. Jgn nanti cost a bomb for maintenance dah, the reason why Japanese car is preferred here. Vios bodoh tuh pakai battery NS 40 (batteri Kancil) je, G2 DIN 55 harga dah twice the price of NS 40.

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  • nizam80 (Member) on Oct 16, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    theking, thanks for sharing. I'm aware most of the details are confidential, therefore they can't be disclosed. Another thing which I would like to know;

    Is the Campro Turbo Project actually the Phoenix project?

    Or is the Phoenix Project a totally new project (not related to Campro)?

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  • Malaysia Boleh on Oct 16, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    why so many haters?i just dont understand most of u guys..aren't we should be proud of it?i think most of the haters dont hate proton..they just hate the government..yup true..they are PR supporters..

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  • farghmee on Oct 16, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    offtopic>>

    @malaysia boleh,

    it has nothing to do with PR la.

    support proton =/= support gov

    not support proton =/= support PR

    it just pure excitement of automotive engineering 8)

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  • Squawk on Oct 17, 2009 at 12:51 am

    Should Proton continue with the Campro or should they focus on developing a new smaller, more efficient engine like the Europeans? The trend there is going smaller cc but with turbo.

    Even the Citroen Grand Picasso 7 seater uses a 1.6.

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  • osh_kosh on Oct 17, 2009 at 1:23 am

    Malaysia Boleh said,

    October 16, 2009 @ 3:38 pm

    why so many haters?i just dont understand most of u guys..aren’t we should be proud of it?i think most of the haters dont hate proton..they just hate the government..yup true..they are PR supporters..

    ————————–

    no lah.. they just hate everybody & everything…

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  • kichiki on Oct 17, 2009 at 2:32 am

    personally, i am not agree if p1 adopts AMT as new transmission…

    even though it sounds better than MT, aftermarket issue and serviceability problems might cause p1 engineer's head spins…

    new DCT, 5 speed AT or CVT are options to improve shift quality and fuel consumption, which one p1 will introduce to us i do not know…

    i heard that current persona, saga and exora already got invecs II in the transmission control unit (because of MMC's AT), but i am still need confirmation from p1 engineers…

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  • Squawk, im totally agree with you. maybe a 660cc with a turbo charge or 850 turbo charge.

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  • waemak on Oct 17, 2009 at 6:56 am

    I see that Proton is working on one thing at a time. To do all at one time is not feasible I suppose and doesnt look smart and waste of resources. A turbo charged engine by Proton is always welcomed. CamPro to Campro IAFM to CamPro CPS and now turbo charge engine. I see the progression.

    While you are it Proton, dont forget that little things that people always associated you with, i.e inferior parts, in the medium run (long run of course any part will go through wear n tear) You see, based on personal experience, Proton engine is not as quiet as others, timing n fan belts start giving noise relatively faster than other makes and the aircord system is far louder than the rest (to name a few). Of course it's not Proton's fault 100%, its the vendors as well. To consider cost factor is good but it wont help in the long run.

    I feel that one of the ways to compete is to go slightly up market, in certain aspects, so that Proton could be seen at par with the rest. Of course Proton is looking into its quality issue and I see a lot of improvement these days, no doubt about it.

    Sometimes its not the main thing that lacks attention, smaller thing like body gaps or lettering on the boot (i've seen 2 Sagas with unlevelled Saga lettering on the boot), make a lot of difference.

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  • lchan on Oct 17, 2009 at 7:22 am

    Turbo engine only mah…make news until like proton designed quantum computer. Plus everybody wants to know what the hell proton is up too because we have to pay rediculous excise tax while their technology progress is snail arse piss slow.

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  • #

    lchan said,

    October 16, 2009 @ 11:22 pm

    Turbo engine only mah…make news until like proton designed quantum computer. Plus everybody wants to know what the hell proton is up too because we have to pay rediculous excise tax while their technology progress is snail arse piss slow.

    ——————————————————–

    yeah you re right,

    its only turbo,

    bmw turbo

    f1 turbo

    bentley turbo

    f40 turbo

    porsche turbo,

    rolls royce turbo,

    pug turbo.

    gtr turbo

    noting new all of them are oudated, old tech,

    waiting for toyota, nissan, honda with turbo, here

    but proton available with turbo not too far from now.

    hhhmph, get what i mean.

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  • Automotive Jury on Oct 17, 2009 at 9:58 am

    to : osh_kosh said,

    on : October 16, 2009 @ 5:23 pm

    you want to know why so many haters around here?..

    I'll tell you why..

    because our Malaysian want an engine are so powerful like a RB26dett GT-R but in the same time they want a low fuel consumption like a Toyota Prius, they also want a build quality like a Mercs, low price spare parts and more important, our Malaysian want all this is a price like a Daihatsu L200S half-cut engine..WHAT THE!!..what wrong with you all guys?!..be proud la..its not easy la..

    am i rite?..haha..

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  • Automotive Jury on Oct 17, 2009 at 10:35 am

    fasgen said,

    October 16, 2009 @ 11:02 am

    agree wit you la fasgen..haha..Proton banyak berjasa dengan rakyat malaysia..jepun bagus tapi tamak..sudah la..cukup la nk bashing2 lagi..support je..kte jugak gune..anywhere..paul..i heard in Saudi Arabia proton sell the GEN-2 just 33,000 Riyal..and dont forget our Ringgit an Riyal just…

    1 Riyal = RM 0.94 (almost 1 ringgit)

    Why huh Paul?..please investigate this..this should be big news!

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  • h4dRi on Oct 17, 2009 at 11:14 am

    what with the thing at intake campulley cover…automatic adj. camulley?

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  • h4dRi on Oct 17, 2009 at 11:15 am

    campulley..

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  • chenming on Oct 17, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    suck turbo engine….

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  • lchan on Oct 17, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    #Awak said…

    yeah you re right,

    its only turbo,

    bmw turbo

    f1 turbo

    bentley turbo

    f40 turbo

    porsche turbo,

    rolls royce turbo,

    pug turbo.

    gtr turbo

    noting new all of them are oudated, old tech,

    waiting for toyota, nissan, honda with turbo, here

    but proton available with turbo not too far from now.

    hhhmph, get what i mean.

    ___________

    hhhmph…nope.

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  • fasgen said,

    October 16, 2009 @ 11:02 am

    Malaysian should be Malaysian. inilah padahnya terlalu pandang ke timur. nampak jepun je. sampai dah tak nampak negara sendiri. apa yang kita buat seme tak kene. nak buat teknologi pun seme kondem…. mentaliti tu dah berkarat dengan jepun. apa benda teknologi jepun dia boleh bagi kat automotif kita. diaorang tu kedekut. 15 tahun P1 dgn mitsu… tak dapat apa. baik kita beli lotus tu. buat barang sendiri.. toyota pun bukan bagus sangat barang dia… cuma nama dia dah lama…. aku pernah baca artikel… toyota mengaku chasis myvi buka bagus sangat… cuma rupa dia orang tengok melelah ingus… bab tu orang beli. dia mengaku chasis savvy lebih baik dari myvi dia…. lalu toyota berangan… kalau dia dapat proton dia boleh buat untung…. dia boleh jual savvy bubuh brand toyota dia… cuma kita tak nak mengaku kemajuan teknologi dan otak orang malaysia kita….. saje je…. aku tetap sokong proton…. sebab proton bagi kerja kat ramai orang malaysia… dapat dia kerja dan senang hidup. dont forget to thank to GOD.

    …………………………………………………………………………………………….

    I AM WITH U,,,,,,MAY GOD BLESS PROTON…-TO PROTON,THERE IS STILL ALOT OF MALAYSIAN ARE SUPPORTING U,<<<>>>>

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  • AIMAN MALAYA DESIGN on Oct 17, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    agree2…PROTON-SPIRIT OF THE ACHIEVEMENT>>>>>>may god bless u PROTON

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  • AIMAN MALAYA DESIGN on Oct 17, 2009 at 10:41 pm

    PROTON-SPIRIT OF THE ACHIEVEMENT>>>>>>may god bless u PROTON

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  • AIMAN MALAYA DESIGN on Oct 17, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    fasgen said,

    October 16, 2009 @ 11:02 am

    Malaysian should be Malaysian. inilah padahnya terlalu pandang ke timur. nampak jepun je. sampai dah tak nampak negara sendiri. apa yang kita buat seme tak kene. nak buat teknologi pun seme kondem…. mentaliti tu dah berkarat dengan jepun. apa benda teknologi jepun dia boleh bagi kat automotif kita. diaorang tu kedekut. 15 tahun P1 dgn mitsu… tak dapat apa. baik kita beli lotus tu. buat barang sendiri.. toyota pun bukan bagus sangat barang dia… cuma nama dia dah lama…. aku pernah baca artikel… toyota mengaku chasis myvi buka bagus sangat… cuma rupa dia orang tengok melelah ingus… bab tu orang beli. dia mengaku chasis savvy lebih baik dari myvi dia…. lalu toyota berangan… kalau dia dapat proton dia boleh buat untung…. dia boleh jual savvy bubuh brand toyota dia… cuma kita tak nak mengaku kemajuan teknologi dan otak orang malaysia kita….. saje je…. aku tetap sokong proton…. sebab proton bagi kerja kat ramai orang malaysia… dapat dia kerja dan senang hidup. dont forget to thank to GOD.

    ……………………………………………………………………………………………

    iam with u….-PROTON_SPIRIT OF THE ACHIEVEMENT_may god bless u proton.

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  • seat-belt on Oct 17, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    the ugliest car in malaysia..comin soon..

    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3287/3964933869_3d…

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  • Littlefire on Oct 18, 2009 at 1:45 am

    LOL~! See this news about our Proton Jumbuck which is still selling in Australia & New Zealand…

    http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/10/17/malaysian-…

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  • BigFire on Oct 18, 2009 at 2:19 am

    Littlefire said,

    October 17, 2009 @ 5:45 pm

    LOL~! See this news about our Proton Jumbuck which is still selling in Australia & New Zealand…

    http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/10/17/malaysian-…

    ————————–

    That's what their country(NZ) do to protect their National car, the bash foreign car, i mean our Proton..

    But stupid malaysian still choose Myvi even they know it is downgrade version…

    anyway..how about your kancil Littlefire? got 4 Star crash test? why dont you comment the Viva or kancil crash test???

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  • Tiadaid on Oct 18, 2009 at 2:52 am

    Littlefire said,

    October 17, 2009 @ 5:45 pm

    LOL~! See this news about our Proton Jumbuck which is still selling in Australia & New Zealand…

    —————————-

    Proton already protested testing the old Jumbuck when the new one's coming in just a few months. So what? Jumbuck/Arena OLD PROTON la…

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  • bondi on Oct 18, 2009 at 9:49 am

    What to protest its a FACT that Jumbuck failed the safety test.1 star rating

    Irrespective whether old model or new they are still selling it until today.

    Don't give stupid excuses trying to protect Proton and divert the attention to perodua instead. If Proton is a responsible

    company they would not give reasons and blame Mitsubishi / clearing stock etc. admit your product is bad and do a recovery. Look at Toyota, they recalled their cars when the carpet was suspected to cause accidents.If it

    was Proton they'll blame vendor but not take responsibility.

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  • Littlefire on Oct 18, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Yup, If a Jumbuck safety is so low. Why still sell it? They should have stop it, but still selling it to Aus & NZ. When they want to test crash it, why give a lot of excuse that new model is coming? They should have bring in the new model instead of the old model…

    This is all about what? Profit and never care about the people safety… Just like us…

    If my Kancil only 1 star safety compare to Jumbuck also 1 star safety, i rather drive my kancil compare to the more expensive & bigger jumbuck…

    Besides that in Australia the safety rating for Daihatsu Mira from 1999 is 3 star & 2001 above is 4 star. (Tested with air-bags)

    http://users.tpg.com.au/users/mpaine/ncaplist.htm…

    Later for sure they will bash say Perodua cut cost dont have safety measure bla bla bla… Even a small car can have 3 star, why proton so big only have 3-4 star? This is what i call big for nothing…

    This is the newest test result of the daihatsu mira, i dont see their car safety worst also?

    http://www.nasva.go.jp/mamoru/english/2007/type/0…

    The lesson for Proton, please sell something which is safe and good for customer. Why until now Exora official ncap result never came out? Just think about it… They always mention 3-4 star, why the ncap official website never came out? Or Proton showing prove of the test result report?

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  • Not all proton car rated 1 star, so use your mind which oe to choose.

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  • Tiadaid on Oct 18, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    bondi said,

    October 18, 2009 @ 1:49 am

    What to protest its a FACT that Jumbuck failed the safety test.1 star rating

    Irrespective whether old model or new they are still selling it until today.

    Don’t give stupid excuses trying to protect Proton and divert the attention to perodua instead. If Proton is a responsible

    company they would not give reasons and blame Mitsubishi / clearing stock etc. admit your product is bad and do a recovery. Look at Toyota, they recalled their cars when the carpet was suspected to cause accidents.If it

    was Proton they’ll blame vendor but not take responsibility.

    ————————————-

    They only just recently tested the Jumbuck. Proton is trying to recover by REPLACING the car!

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  • Tiadaid on Oct 18, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    Littlefire said,

    October 18, 2009 @ 8:57 am

    The lesson for Proton, please sell something which is safe and good for customer. Why until now Exora official ncap result never came out? Just think about it… They always mention 3-4 star, why the ncap official website never came out? Or Proton showing prove of the test result report?

    ———————–

    NCAP, whether if its EuroNCAP or ANCAP can only be administered if the car is selling in the region where the NCAP is done. Meaning wait for the Exora to be sold in Europe or Australia and they'll test it.

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  • BigFire on Oct 18, 2009 at 9:54 pm

    THE FACTS is.. New Saga and Exora are killing Perodua sales!! No matter what you want to say about Savvy, Jumbuck,Old Wira…

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  • adeh pasal engine gaduh menyampah tol melalut lalut lak g tax lah tu lah nih lah eeeeeeeee….. kalau nak mati tu mati gak.. abs edb ke traction control ke, paddle shift ke, air brake ke , ceramic brake ke suruh bwk 110kmph bawak 200kmph gedebang mati seh.. mcm nih lah solution proton is proton kete tu leh beli semua org tak semua org leh beli honda,toyota,kia,naza(ciplak), let it be our national car proton (exlclude perodua) copy cat. still young it gomen polici ke nak protect up to them kite customer had rite to choose so dont condem other product.. all car production had problem before them solve it… good job on proton terbo engine…let comment how to improve those campro terbo more realiable n more power output …. ader ker nak bagi cadangan i tau semua kat sini ilmu kereta mesti power..

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  • #

    h4dRi said,

    October 17, 2009 @ 3:14 am

    what with the thing at intake campulley cover…automatic adj. camulley?

    —————————————————————

    you should have known it if youre a real car fan,

    intake side- means itntake side or exhaust side of the camshaft, for this contex it at the intake side for campro we say 'bpelakang'

    cam pully-, a piece of sporket which toothed gear where timing belt ia placed,

    cover-narmally black plastic covering timing belt.

    easy…

    automatic adj cam you said?

    YES

    or i would say variable valve timming in short VVT. it need space for this mechanism, therefore the plastic cover allow some extra space for it.

    you 'pbura-pbura engak dtahu ni'

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  • lchan said,

    October 17, 2009 @ 12:07 pm

    #Awak said…

    yeah you re right,

    its only turbo,

    bmw turbo

    f1 turbo

    bentley turbo

    f40 turbo

    porsche turbo,

    rolls royce turbo,

    pug turbo.

    gtr turbo

    noting new all of them are oudated, old tech,

    waiting for toyota, nissan, honda with turbo, here

    but proton available with turbo not too far from now.

    hhhmph, get what i mean.

    ___________

    hhhmph…nope

    ——————————————————

    ——————————————————

    hhhmph…fine,

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  • intermilan on Oct 19, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    regarding the transmission (which is quite interesting, much better than the engine coz it is an unknown entity), if you exclude ZF (its Germany but they dont have suitable product), exclude Aisin (its Japanese, not Germany, but do have suitable products, the next gearbox manufacturer we could speculate is Getrag.

    From Germany? yes, and they have a host of suitable products. they got transverse gearbox (for FWD); manual, auto and AMT with either 5 or 6 speed options. So if Proton going to get it from them, the main question is which gearbox(s) Proton will couple with their new engine.

    Will Proton buy the 5-speed or 6-speed for auto and manual? and will they really pick the more desirable 6-speed for AMT (use in SmartForFour, Mits Colt)? Well, if they wanna buy AMT from Getrag, AMT only available in 6-speed.. (but got a few version), which one tak tau.

    A six-speed Protons? Baru up-to-date!

    Move away from 4AT and skip 5AT asap. its gonna get 'obsolete' pretty soon.

    Now, almost all Conti vehicle manufacturers are moving to 6-speed automatic / AMT as a wider basic offering. VW done it (but its a DSG not normal AT or AMT). Other manufacturers are close in (e.g. PSA etc). They do this out of neccesity to lower fuel consumption and exhaust emission. Some just had to follow coz the rest is getting away (with better sales and image).

    Cuma reliability must be there (so maintenance cost is logical).

    Of course, the safest (cheapest) and most enjoyable choice is a manual transmission.

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  • fasgen on Oct 19, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    what ever a fully believe ti MD Dato' Syed Zainal Abidin… he is a good man. done great job. since he take MD proton, many good things,esp quality, can make exora only 18 months…. early than schedule…. so not impossible for new engine turbo. bcs we have technology and facility. DSZ bot calang2 orang mah!! he knows a lot about car… how to make a good car… mad in malaysia.i will wait exora turbo……..

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 19, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    Eyesore said,

    October 16, 2009 @ 11:32 am

    the displacement of the turbo engine will enable the use of 6 speed manual and CVT i guess….. German company ek? I think I kno which one hehehe….

    Automotive Critics… reading ur comments…. sometime u give quite good points but without good reason / facts it will be just opinions.. with false facts it makes u look like an uneducated person talking from his @$$

    ———————-

    Which point didn't have fact? Pls point it up.

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  • mr.kichiki i presume,

    p1 already used invecs II Starting from waja onwards. the systems been improved years after years by p1 after getting permission by mitsu to alter its tcu. if u want depth understanding of intelligent/innovative vehicle electronic control system (invecs), u can search it in my old post or mitsu website.

    p1 will not produce any amt transmission.

    IF the transmissions are 6 speed manual and cvt, or 5/6 speed auto, what is ur preference. need to remind this is not the revealing of the new transmission, just want to know people opinions/preference only. this is just for fun, not the real info k ;-). adios amigos. hi eyesore

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  • dzulx on Oct 19, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    6MT and 6AT anytime. my opinion dont waste time on CVT.

    Even honda jazz changed from CVT to AT.

    It doesnt have the appeal yet to Malaysian although I know CVT has lot of potentials..

    No more 4AT please.. if possible skip 5AT.

    6AT undeniably more expensive but if all model used 6AT (regardless non-premium and premium) ull have better economy of scale rite???

    Even better DSG from getrag…reputable brand and proven in GTI.

    and I think twin clutch is the way of future… unless we go for electric motor..

    AMT is a no no… anything that has shift speed longer than MT (average user's time I mean) is a no no.. its just too frustrating..

    Beside, consider the perception of most Malaysian which likely say anything hi-tech equal high maintenance..

    if proton read this, just want u to know 1.6l with 200hp + twinclutch make me, ur potential customer drooling..

    But of course pls pls pls improve ur interior…it is just sucks… even exora I despise..

    Maybe you also want to include those in higher income bracket as ur potential customer in the future (as most of ur recent models are for masses i.e. ok but boring).

    They wouldnt want to consider cheapo persona interior would they if they could afford civic.. think about it..

    Maybe in next model u have to consider car 1 class higher as ur direct competitor not car within the same price bracket. (i.e. Exora against Wish not exora against livina and maybe new waja against civic and perdana against 3 series perhaps..). Doing so u will have higher target to be achieved and new level of challenges. Then u can brag why pay 50k more if u can find same quality in proton..

    Well easier said then done.. gud luck to u..

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 19, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    1. 360 said,

    October 16, 2009 @ 10:06 am

    someone state the price of golf gti is usd 23830 to be smart…ha..ha..it is the starting price and the lowest spec of golf. dont u see any ** price quoted??? normallay, the price of cars outside malaysia are not on the road price. malaysian quoted on the road price. the price of golf gti exclude TAXES, destination charges,optional equipment,REGISTRATION,DEALERS CHARGERS AND EMMISIONS CHARGES.

    DESTINATION CHARGE alone usd700++. that is still not include insurance chargers. haiya.. australian tax structures is defferent to us, thats why u see that it is cheaper and the price is not on the road price.

    HOW MANY TIMES I NEED TO TELL U THAT P1 CARS HAVE TAX ALSO.

    Acritics said that honda jazz without taz is rm65k justifies it prices because using vtec engine. it is the same technology with cps,even the application is different. so whats so advance about vtec engine in the city???has it ever won the best engine in the world??? if VW 1.4 tsi, I solute. thats why p1 now doing forced induction. for those who admire vvt so much, take a look at the engine of the year 1.4 tsi, without any vvt. so vvt is outdatedlah…

    —————————————————————-360, at that time it is subject for comparison with Persona or BLM. So I think it worth that since both Persona or BLM are not CPS and in that case VTEC is “a bit” advance (if you agree) and paddle shift, so on so on. But thanks for your clarification since I do not know about technical.

    ——————————————————–

    sebenarnya, stakat ni, xda sgt teknologi baru cume improvement dr technologi lama. rotary,boxer,vvt,vvl,turbo,supercharge,vim and many more telah lama ada dalam dunia ni. cume diimprovekan supaya penuhi peraturan emisi dan menambah power kereta. cps ke, mivec ke, vtec ke, vanoske, vvtike, sama aje,ada pro dan kontra.

    sapa kata honda city justify sebab pkai vtec, come onla, used ur brainla. jangan main ckp aje. kalu stakat google aje xguna, blaja dulu automotive engineering, kerja dulu bhagian pwrterrain dpt mana2 syarikat, jadi engineer dulu kat situ, barula tau langit tinggi rendah. pas2 kata good qualitylah plastic, paddle shift f1??? style aje bro,tapi bukan paddle shift f1 betul2. gearpun auto. org paddle shift pkai automated manual mcam alfa@ferari, xpun pakai twin cluch. kalu pkai auto conventional@cvt yg pakai simulasi gear(padahal xda gear pun, tulis je seven speed),xyahlah.

    —————————————————————-

    360, CVT don’t have gear? Biar betul nie? Kalau takde gear camner nak transfer mechanical force ikut hukum keabadian tenaga?

    ——————————————————–

    ada plak ckp vios itu canggih, super ectlah. super ect tu sama mcm invecs 2, itupun xtauke automotive critics??? dan vios yg highest specs je ada. vvti tu sama je taraf dengan cps. janganlah korang terpengaruh sangat.

    ———————————————————-

    Yes I don’t know as I’m technical person but so many people say if it same with that invecs 2, why it so responsive and smooth unlike invecs 2? Do you think Japanese people/consumer are stupid to be fooled by this SCAM (Super ECT just normal 4AT or same with old mitsu). If yes for sure T already bankrupt due millions being sued to them. Come on la takkan sama kot. Macam GCON, GOA, RISE semuany been patented and patent assessment is not just showing sketch only.

    japanese people really good in marketing. a plain example, if the centre meter in vios is really good as toyota engineer said, why dont they implement it to all their cars especially lexus??? why dont they use that technology and advanced idea to their highend products????

    —————————————————————-

    This is simple. Because it’s product planning. The vios feels so ergonomics with centre console mounted meter and flat rear floor with good driving position. Plus good exterior design gives it best for both world (stylish and comfort). The Lexus is more driver oriented luxury cars and should be design as what they are positioned in.

    ————————————————————

    so u can see how easy they con u malaysian. they cheat u easily because many of us are really taksub dgn kete jepun. bg vios pun dah meleleh air idung,sedangkan itu low cost product untuk negara yang xberapa nak maju rakyatnya. cume sekarang je dia sharing platform dengan yris untuk jimat cost dan jual sebagai belta kat jepun sebab nk jual kete yg low cost kt rakyat dia, tp kena ingat, walupun shating platform, xsemestinya dia punya steel guna yg sama.

    —————————————————————

    Vios is same as Belta. Sharing platform is normal to cut cost as to develop new platform is not cheap. City, Fit and Freed sharing same platform also.

    xramai manufacturer berani reveal berapa kuat dan rigid nye chasis kete diaorang. p1 ada bagi maklumat sebab p1 x takut. itu adalah fakta. cubelah cari fakta sikit tentang rigidity kete vios kesayangan anda and honda city kesayangan anda. banding je dengan saga yg kokak yg chasisnya torsional and bending rigidity dia 17000nm.

    ——————————————————-

    I don’t know technical but all JDM cars need to go for JNCAP.

    ——————————————————-

    so silakan google cari maklumat pasal kete kesayangan andan k. eh, vios kat malaysia berapa euroncap??? jgn bagi result kete ket jepun, vios spec malaysia aje.

    oklah,saja je berceloteh, GB auto, manual and cvt from german. of course, pheonix need his leegs to help him to take off . persona fl, new 32 bit advance engine management and etc. adios amigos

    ———————————————————-

    Please improve built quality and design language especially for interior.

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  • Nakal on Oct 20, 2009 at 1:50 am

    Automotive_Critics said,

    October 19, 2009 @ 2:09 pm

    ……………………………………………….

    360…finally si Acritics ni admit he/she dont know technical…

    even dia pun x clear what is actually cvt…

    so I suggest kat you…tak payahla layan sangat mamat/minah ni…

    buang masa je…

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  • kichiki on Oct 20, 2009 at 3:56 am

    intermilan,

    i think u are very smart person…

    but do not disclose anything, just let people guess by their own…

    360,

    i am looking forward p1 adopt new 5MT and 6MT…

    maybe shift effort is better than current Mitsubishi T/M, hopefully…

    6MT might be the best for turbo engine…

    for automatic, i prefer CVT for better fuel consumption since i drove several cars in Japan which is using CVT…

    the FC is awesome, save my pocket, fuel there is expensive eventhough RON90…

    i think we will never had chance to feel invecs III, since new transmission will be introduced, unless we buy Mitsubishi Lancer hehe…

    can i contact u personally?

    Automotive_Critics,

    CVT does not have gears except for differential…

    CVT is using pulleys, drive pulley on input shaft and driven pulley on output shaft…

    connecting those two pulleys is push belt, this kind of T/M had been introduced long time ago by Honda, if i am not wrong…

    latest update, Nissan uses CVT with chain belt, not push belt anymore…

    too advance lol…

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  • Paltank on Oct 20, 2009 at 3:59 am

    conclusion, Auto critics is stupid about technical and like to talk and act like a pro…lol..his comment about cvt this show who he really are..lol auto critic have u ever thinking to do homework/googling about cvt..lol..

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 20, 2009 at 5:31 am

    kichiki said,

    October 19, 2009 @ 7:56 pm

    Automotive_Critics,

    CVT does not have gears except for differential…

    CVT is using pulleys, drive pulley on input shaft and driven pulley on output shaft…

    connecting those two pulleys is push belt, this kind of T/M had been introduced long time ago by Honda, if i am not wrong…

    latest update, Nissan uses CVT with chain belt, not push belt anymore…

    too advance lol…

    ———————–

    Kichiki, thanks for your explanation. My understanding was it doesn't have mechanical gear at all means that how the belt pulls the shaft. So it does has gear to transfer the rotational force generated between gears.

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 20, 2009 at 5:35 am

    Paltank said,

    October 19, 2009 @ 7:59 pm

    conclusion, Auto critics is stupid about technical and like to talk and act like a pro…lol..his comment about cvt this show who he really are..lol auto critic have u ever thinking to do homework/googling about cvt..lol

    ————————–

    Don't judge the book by it's cover..sometimes, some people is working undercover. They might know and might not.

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  • kichiki on Oct 20, 2009 at 6:03 am

    just to share wut i know, anybody can correct me if i m wrong…

    the gears in CVT determined by gap of the drive or driven pulley…

    this gap will be adjusted by a variator that gets input from tcu…

    push belt will transfer input rotation from engine to output shaft…

    then from output shaft, it goes to differential and lastly to driveshaft…

    actually, the pulley surface is smooth, no physical gear…

    that is why cvt is special, you can set up to 10 ratios if you want to…

    but normally calibration team will set optimum ratio selection for best performance…

    mitsubishi lancer got 6 in sport mode, previous honda city got 7 in shift button mode…

    p/s: push belt in cvt is not made from rubber, it is still metal…so cvt suppliers have their own secret technology to ensure durability of contact surface of metals (push belt and pulley)…

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  • yes mr kichiki, u r right about cvt, it doesnt have physical gears. really2 sorry kichiki, everybody has their own secrets rite :-), but nice to know u in this forum. automotive critics, of course cvt is a type of transmission (gear org malaysia ckp). vios not only competing with persona, let alone blm, it also compete with gen2 CPS rite, its direct competitor in the market.

    "quoted from acritics This is simple. Because it’s product planning. The vios feels so ergonomics with centre console mounted meter and flat rear floor with good driving position. Plus good exterior design gives it best for both world (stylish and comfort). The Lexus is more driver oriented luxury cars and should be design as what they are positioned in."

    so thats ur answer if toyota made, but what happened if it is p1 :-)…but i dont still understand on Lexus be driver oriented, according toyota, the centre console is better for driver than conventional meter console, so if lexus is driver oriented, it supposed to have centre console rite :-).

    it doesnt matter, it is ur own opinion, i respect that. i just want to rectify some misinformation on p1, thats all. whether auto, cvt, manual or be it amt, it has its own pro and cons, so dont just said that some makes better than others if they are simply the same (I mean the same segment cars and same category such as gen2, persona, vios and honda city). every car has its won pro and cons, just dont belittle p1 because it is made in malaysia, p1 also has its own quality that the other makes doesnt have.

    i admit that previously, p1 had a bad track record, the new ceo just joining p1 in 2005, so it just 4 years, give him time, there are still a lot of room of improvement. u must remember, is not easy to change everything in a day because it involve contracts and agreements that old management had make. just tell me the truth whether u have seen any improvement from year 2006 until now or not???

    I believe in 5 more years time stating next year, u will see many colors of p1 that u have never seen before. and how's ur gen2, have lodged the report that i've told u before and which sc actually u change ur pwindows? maybe ur info can help others so they will not be scam by the irresponsible sc before its been investigate due to your official report.

    cvt is good becoz it has better torque transfer from low rpm compare to conventional auto, but it doesnt have that special feeling that conventional transmission give u, and if u change any cvt cars mufler to sporty one, the sound will be flat and retiring, if u know what i'm talking about. so both have pro and cons. but for me, because of the importance of fc in our life nowadays, it is the better choice in the future (because dual clutch is quite expensive to produce).

    ok, adios amigos, love to hear more opinions on p1 future transmission whether 5/6 speed manual, 5/6 speed auto and cvt. just for fun k :-).

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  • kichiki on Oct 20, 2009 at 7:36 am

    nice to meet u all here too, 360 intermilan and si-fu…

    maybe i could join next teh tarik session haha…

    actually i really concern on this phoenix project, especially powertrain related part…

    knowledge sharing is important, so people will be convinced with p1 capabilities right?

    i admit cvt might not the best solution for auto t/m but we better try than do nothing…

    turbo engine also need time to fix calibration, emission, testing etc…

    similar to transmission, development and validation is still required…

    to all forum members, just wait until 2011, let the development continues…

    no one will buy to our product if we made it like kuih raya…

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  • theking on Oct 20, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    To Automotive_Critics,

    Please change your name to Non Automotive_Critics! TQ.

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 20, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    theking said,

    October 20, 2009 @ 9:09 am

    To Automotive_Critics,

    Please change your name to Non Automotive_Critics! TQ

    —————-

    I don't see any wrong with my nickname. It just justify myself. If my nick is Automotive_Engineer then i admit. I don't see any of my comments could mislead others but some comment can consider constructive to Proton if they want to accept but if not then i do it for charity or else as Paul is not restricting.

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  • farghmee on Oct 20, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    offtopic>>

    i would suggest that proton make a clear line between economy & performance.

    for economy

    1. campro vvt with iafm+, matched with cvt.

    model: saga sedan & saga hatchbk, persona, savvy replacement.

    for slightly-above-economy

    2. campro vvt with iafm+ or cps, match with 6mt or 6at.

    model: exora, persona & persona hatchbk (gen2), neo, savvy replacement.

    for "performance".

    3. campro turbo, match with 6mt or 6at.

    model: exora se, persona se & persona hatchbk se (gen2 se), neo gti.

    for safety features, std: rigid chassis & stability, abs, ebd, dual-airbags.

    for fit&finish: continuous checking.

    for SC: send those mechanics for training.

    for marketing: do marketing!

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 20, 2009 at 7:03 pm

    360 said,

    October 19, 2009 @ 10:53 pm

    ———————-

    360, keep Proton development on track and don't forget design aspect also. Current Proton design language should be totally refresh. Sorry for my (harsh?) comment but it should be constructive to you.

    For my wife Gen2 pwr window, i don't want to go to SC again since the 2nd time problem required 4hrs to be fixed. I had repair it at accesories shop cost abt RM100. Pls ask your i-care to investigate why replacement part broke again after 3 months. That job would be meaningful rather than promoting their services. Thanks.

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  • RunnerUp on Oct 20, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    Automotive_Critics said,

    I don’t see any wrong with my nickname. It just justify myself.

    __________________________

    You might wanna drop the S if you're just you alone though :)

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  • thekang on Oct 20, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    To Automotive_Critics,

    Please change your name to "I don't know Automotive" TQ.

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  • farghmi,

    i agree proton varies the campro, in several satges for designated model and purpose.

    but with the vvt come in,

    iafm and vim will certainly phased out. because vvt (if it continous type) is more precision and torque is more instant, iafm or vim is 2 stage tune might be something a bit behind.

    and anyway vvt can incorprate with cps for the advantage of higher peak torque and horsepower.

    for the gearbox we hope 2500rpm at 100kmh. in other word, relax torquey engine,

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  • quoted from acritics "360, keep Proton development on track and don’t forget design aspect also. Current Proton design language should be totally refresh. Sorry for my (harsh?) comment but it should be constructive to you.

    ……………………………………………………………………………………………..

    Tq for ur constructive comments to p1, it is highly appreciated

    …………………………………………………………………………………………….

    For my wife Gen2 pwr window, i don’t want to go to SC again since the 2nd time problem required 4hrs to be fixed. I had repair it at accesories shop cost abt RM100. Pls ask your i-care to investigate why replacement part broke again after 3 months. That job would be meaningful rather than promoting their services. Thanks.

    …………………………………………………………………………………………………..

    firstly, i'm not promoting the i-care. it is the right procedure to report. it is normal for every car company in the world if the owner itself do a report to the right channel. maybe what happened to ur pw car is an isolated case or under ppm and its already being checked by p1 but nobody perfect, we may unnoticed it and there are many PERHAPS and MAYBE since u send it outside but since it still cover under warranty, why u go to outside workshops and waste ur money. if it cannot be repaired, p1 will replace a new unit for u. since u do a repair job outside, u shud not blame p1 for that.

    which p sc do u go, is it p1 branch sc or authorised sc? or is it eon sc or eon authorised sc? previously there are no centralised computer system and it is not easy to trace the problems except the sc report back the repeated problems. thats why I-CARE exist to help owners to report back to p1. EON and P1 also using different centralised system. That's why i asked u to report. u have to use the right channel. example, if ur car has been stolen, u have to lodged report to the police before u claim ur insurrance. u cannot just ask the insurance to pay back to u without any official report including report number and the matter need to be investigate before verify and claim being process. u cannot just ask one policeman, ask him to write report for u or just told the insurance company to payback to you or just talk and talk in the forum and blame the insurance company even u dont lodge any report. be real man. thats why u need to keep ur official receipt when u buy something.

    are u clear with procedure? but since u repair it using outside workshop but u continue to blame p1, so you are being unfair to p1. u shud blame ur self. thats why u dont see any improvement of the pw mechanism since u do ur car outside but when u talk it seems that ur being in p1 sc every year and every time. what about service? do u continue service in p1 sc or outside? if u service ouside,when do u start service outside?what year and how many kilometres that u have covered when u start service outside?

    Don't be mad at me, i just want u to understand that not to just assuming or forecasting something that u r not sure and being a fortune teller.

    but still really appreciate ur comments and recommendations and now i know that another cased that customer change parts/repairs outside but blamming p1. please remembered that parts sell outside maybe being label the parts original but actually is not original.thanks for the info.

    and this is for all of p1 users, please lodged report if u r not satisfied with the service, problems or parts and even the salesman. please stated their name, branch and receipt number if needed. p1 really need every feedback from the users. tq.

    ……………………………………………………………………………………………………

    em, tq for kuchiki,awak,faghmee,intermilan and etc opinions on the gb. relly appreciated ur opinions. maybe some will meet ur suggestions, some may not ;-), but rest assure, p1 and the partners are in working perfecting the pheonix. maybe 6mt/5at/cvt will serve u well in the future with cuting edge technology ;-) Ha…ha…who knows what is coming…….;-). hope fully we are clear lads….adios amigos…240nmore to go…

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  • oldwira on Oct 21, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    haha i can see there is 1proton… 1malaysia, 1basher…..1stupidity

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 21, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    thekang said,

    October 20, 2009 @ 1:41 pm

    To Automotive_Critics,

    Please change your name to “I don’t know Automotive” TQ

    ———————

    Thekang, you're not fair to me. Automotive can be meaning a lot not only restricted to engineering and technology only. There is a lot of people in Research house e.g Kenanga, Maybank securities etc is working flat out in order to safeguard the total automotive industry chain in Malaysia even they do not know what on earth is CPS mechanism meaning. Believe or not, they are also in automotive industry.

    If you're in the automotive industry, please look in wider view and you may learn to respect others. I admit my comment is mostly out of topic but i think paul doesn't restrict such comment as long as there is no racial or provocative comment. err..you're theking or really thekang? confuse.

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  • Automotive_Critics on Oct 21, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    360 said,

    October 20, 2009 @ 9:47 pm

    ———————

    True story, my wife gen2 replace pwr window at 2 years warranty time almost remain 2 months before expiry. After 3 months, which warranty already expired it broke again. if i go to SC at that time, would they replace it FOC for me? somemore need make booking + 4hrs fixing time? I've already calculated the cost and it will cheaper to replace it at accesories shop and i did it. Does it make sense for you if you were me at that time?

    Actually is not only pwr window but too many problem for my wife gen2 i can't remember all. 1. 1 week after delivery-front suspension noise tak tak tak replace after 3 times went to SC. (1st and 2nd time SC fix by tighten underbody bolt). 2. Steering miss-align. 4 times went to SC (not solved) went to under tree mechanic solved by insert bush made by mineral water bottle to steering column. 3rd Transmission lever light burn. replace at SC by 2 times visit. waiting part 3 weeks. 4. RR door lock jammed-replace under warranty at SC. 5. FR door handle broken. 6 Acclerator pedal sensor problem. replace at SC. 7. pwr window problem replace at SC but broken again. 8. Air cond not cold. replace at SC air control unit 1 set-OK. many-many more..now pwr window switch stuck, pwr window rr problem 3rd time not yet fixed. HVAC flap noise. That's why i'm very pain now. Can i get i-care caring after 4 years of ownership??

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  • dzulx on Oct 21, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    To 360,

    Im not whether u r one of the engineer, but IMO you should skip 5AT.

    Go to 6AT directly. Phoenix project is until 2011. First model to feature this engine might be launched around 2012.. It is like 3 more years to go. And knowing proton, u might want to capitalize this over 5 6 years or maybe more. which means until 2017 or 2018.

    Dont you think 5AT is a little bit too outdated by that time? Heck even new myvi may have 5 AT already by that time. Dont afraid to be diff.. Think about the lifespan of the engine. If you r too cost conscious now, you might loose competition at the later half of the lifespan..

    Look for campro for instance, u design cps to be fitted with campro but somehow cps was not there from the very first beginning. After u fitted cps.. the mechanism is already outdated. Perodua even have the same mechanism if not better.

    Dont forget proton does not have capacity nor the scale to keep developing engine every 3 years. Once u guys decided to do so… use the latest technology that will still be fresh over the time… 6AT might be expensive now but do you know how will it be by end 2011? it might become more mainstream and hence cheaper. Same goes to twinclucth. Even now the boring Ford sedan has it. Consider the future and the relevance in ur current design.

    CVT no comment. Ever wonder why CVT model not selling like hot cake.. I dont know why too… even lancer gt people keep saying if not CVT I would buy..

    As u involve in the industry, u might want to do some market research and see why CVT does not really doing as expected (or may be it does.. i dont know)… Sometime engineer think it is good but the consumers dont want it. what to do?

    btw 2011 is long way to go… Fill the gap with new and exciting offerings.. Maybe waja maybe perdana?? or else consumer will not have the patient to wait that long..

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  • nizam80 (Member) on Oct 21, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    360,

    For the new transmission, my personal preference would be a 6-speed auto (I don't like CVT) for the Exora, and a 6-speed Manual for Proton's 2-door hatch.

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  • for me CVT is suitable for car with a very good low end torque engine, BUT not high at hospower. and purposely economy drive without powerloss of unnecesssary rev that might take on fuel cosiderably.

    less sporty character.

    it purposely to mantain the sweet spot of torque band, without having to work hard like higher HP car,

    so it floats within torque.

    if turbo campro, its less likely to use CVT. i think..

    for example honda city 1.5 idsi,

    8 valve (considerably low hp)

    8 valve (good torque)

    intelligent double sequential ignition (at low end it burn the fuel thoroghly to extract more)

    correct me , just my view.

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  • to acritics :-), since u r acritics, why u asked me whether p1 will entertain u to replace part after warranty expired? any manufacturer wont do that. i mean that if u buy the pw part after the warranty expires, u r entitle for another warranty for that part, anything happened to that part, they will replace it foc during the warranty period. if u go to under the tree workshop, maybe there will be no warranty at all or the pw is not original from p1. if u think booking to sc and time for fixing is cost for u, it is up to you. u must remember that in p1 sc, they have rules and regulations and procedures to follow when they service or fixing the car. it is not like a regular workshop where when they used to change the oil and oil filter during service. there are check points for every service according to mileage. and for every damaged part, as u mentioned, p1 already fixed and replace it right.

    as i mentioned earlier, u cannot judge whether p1 had made improvement or not for their pw because u did it outside p1 sc.

    i'm not denying previously p1 had a bad image on quality, but it has been largely improved and i never said that it is already perfect. u cannot compare p1 when they produced their second car gen2, with the newer products, it is like judge 2 years child to behave like 7 years old child rite mate :-).

    tq everyone for their opinions. highly appreciated. yeah, it is good to prepare for the future but p1 must consider the most suitable gb for their engine. not all 6 at is suitable for all engines,sometimes 4 at perform better than 6 at, try to drive the new cruze 1.6 with 6 at,then u will understand what i mean. For bigger output engine, 6 at will suit them better :-).em, i think better u wait n see what p1 will offer to u in the future and what is the tech behind it. and please dont compare the time when p1 make its campro engine with p1 capability nowadays. even previously it takes more than 2 years to produce waja and now its only take 18 month to produce exora (including create a new platform). p1 is now progressing at a faster pace compare to before.

    the only thing that i can said that next year and onwards, there are many exiting products will come out from p1 and some are quite a suprised even for some unlicensed "Malaysian Automotive Engineer" out there :-). prepare to be amaze…ha…ha…adios amigos…

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  • raies on Oct 22, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    hampeh……

    buat suspen lagi…..

    jiwa merana woooooo

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  • fasgen on Oct 23, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    any news or pic savvy replacement?

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  • ali38hak on Oct 26, 2009 at 11:28 am

    not only replacement for savvy, there is a savvy leight commercial vehicle on sale in türkiye.. not joke realy ! !

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  • farghmee on Oct 26, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    @ali38hak,

    what is that savvy light commercial vehicle? any interesting pics?

    i think we dun have it in malaysia?

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  • cmon la….we are malaysian what…

    who will support our industry if malaysian are just thinking bout others mat salleh's technologies or japanese….be in mind that all of those developed nation has start way too long ago…I believe all you guys still eating belacan too…like me..think positive..n rational…mustang not come out yesterday…monaco circuit not built at 99…corolla ae86 not just launched yesterday….do we expect lotus F1 team operation match with toyota or ferrari? If you don;t like to embrace your nationality, better go berambus to japan..

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  • Oscar on Dec 31, 2009 at 6:15 am

    Sigh, i hope there will be not much technical problems in the new turbo campro engine. When proton just release Gen.2, there is so much problem in the car like the quality check , technical problems for the campro engine. So i think turbo campro engine will be ok by 2013-2014. Just like IAFM, CPS. So i advise your dont immediately buy the new turbo campro engine first. Wait first….Proton always has some problems …..

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  • rhonot on Feb 25, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    blah la…nak develop engine tebo la plak…cermin tingkap dok bergegaq penat dah aku ejas atas bawah xmau bagi vibrate…cap ayam mana yg buat fitting interior pon xtau..dok keja nak buat keta lagi jalan raya dok kecik tu jugak dari dulu. apa2 pon aku sokong keta nasional..yang tak sokong dah tu dok kutuk lebih2…bleh pindah p negara yg buat toyota atau lain2.dah la x pakai proton..nak menyelit kat sini pasaipa..lain la mcm aku..pakai proton.

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  • Ganeson on Sep 14, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Its been a year since this story came out. Paul, do we actually have a launch date for this engine. I waited a year for the Satria Neo to come out and then could not wait and bought a Gen 2. Now I am patiently waiting for the Neo Turbo to break cover.. will it ever… or even better a saga turbo with manual tranny, ebd and abs. Proton are you listening?

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  • wakaka on Oct 31, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    Look closely at the intake cam pulley… Looks like it will have variable intake timing system (similar to VVT). So Campro + CPS + VVT + Turbo should make between 170-200hp at the flywheel. Let’s wait and see…

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